FLAT or ROUND Earth?

[Apple Sky]

You don't take any time to learn or even investigate.

I were well indoctrinated in the classroom.

You're intellectually blind, and proud of it.

I'm not blind or proud, do you think I pride myself on getting ridiculed for my belief ?

All for an interpretation of the Bible that has no real bearing on salvation from Christ at all.
And that's just sad

Don't be sad for me, be sad for all those in Gaza who have lost their homes & are going hungry while NASA & Musk spends Billions on their fairy tales space missions.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I were well indoctrinated in the classroom.

Obviously not the English classroom...

I'm not blind or proud, do you think I pride myself on getting ridiculed for my belief ?

Only the weirdest person takes pride in being ridiculed, but you do take pride in ignoring what anyone tells you and ignore anything that even shows that you might be wrong. That is pride.

Don't be sad for me, be sad for all those in Gaza who have lost their homes & are going hungry while NASA & Musk spends Billions on their fairy tales space missions.

Neither of those two things at all have anything to do with the other. I don't even know what to call that as a logical fallacy but it's bad for sure.

 

[Jipsah]

It starts with waters. Waters were not created, according to Genesis 1. There is no "And God said: Let there be waters" or anything like that. Waters were simply the starting point.

How extraordinarily silly! God created the universe, but somehow water was already "there". Where was that :"there", in your opinion? In what form was water? And how did it get wherever it was? How about John 1:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made

Anything that exists, God created Period, Punto, Full Stop, No, "Oh, but (whatever) was already there."

 

[Jipsah]

According to the ancient mythology, the primordial waters were eternal, uncreated.

A fig for ancient mythologies,

God/gods were creating everything else by taming the waters,

How interesting. Rubbish, but interesting rubbish.

 

[Jipsah]

Look, another proof that the Earth is a flat circle

.... speaking of rubbish.

 

[trophy33]

How extraordinarily silly! God created the universe, but somehow water was already "there". Where was that :"there", in your opinion? In what form was water? And how did it get wherever it was? How about John 1:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made

Anything that exists, God created Period, Punto, Full Stop, No, "Oh, but (whatever) was already there."

Genesis 1 is not literal. It is a mythological drama. Addressed to Babylonian Jews.

John 1 is a philosophical creation prologue. Addressed to Greeks, Romans, Hellenistic Jews etc. Written in the Hellenistic era. Working with the concept of Logos.

Yes, John 1 version is closer to our way of thinking.

 

[trophy33]

How interesting. Rubbish, but interesting rubbish.

It was not rubbish for them, they liked myths and legends and formed their cultures around it.

 

[dlamberth]

Yes, John 1 version is closer to our way of thinking.

And than there's the mystical aspect of the Gospel of John.

 

[trophy33]

And than there's the mystical aspect of the Gospel of John.

What mystical aspect do you have in mind?

 

[David Lamb]

It starts with waters. Waters were not created, according to Genesis 1. There is no "And God said: Let there be waters" or anything like that. Waters were simply the starting point.

But Genesis 1 does not say that the waters were not created. It says that when God created the heavens and the earth there was darkness and water on the earth that He created:

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.” (Ge 1:1-2 NKJV)

 

[Apple Sky]

But Genesis 1 does not say that the waters were not created. It says that when God created the heavens and the earth there was darkness and water on the earth that He created:

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.” (Ge 1:1-2 NKJV)

Although we don't always agree on some things I 100% agree with you that God created the water, who else could have created water but God ?

 

[David Lamb]

Although we don't always agree on some things I 100% agree with you that God created the water, who else could have created water but God ?

Thanks. I think the big problem is that we come to Genesis as being part of God's written word, whereas Trophy33's view is that Genesis is "a mythological drama. Addressed to Babylonian Jews."

 

[Apple Sky]

Thanks. I think the big problem is that we come to Genesis as being part of God's written word, whereas Trophy33's view is that Genesis is "a mythological drama. Addressed to Babylonian Jews."

This is the kind of view that I refuse to believe.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Thanks. I think the big problem is that we come to Genesis as being part of God's written word, whereas Trophy33's view is that Genesis is "a mythological drama. Addressed to Babylonian Jews."

Why is it impossible to be both?

 

[David Lamb]

Why is it impossible to be both?

To be both something owing its truth to God Himself, and at the same time to be "a mythological drama. Addressed to Babylonian Jews."? I don;t see how.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

To be both something owing its truth to God Himself, and at the same time to be "a mythological drama. Addressed to Babylonian Jews."? I don;t see how.

God created all things, and to explain how He did so, someone created the Genesis story to fit the knowledge that the Ancient Jews had. It makes more sense since the Genesis account does not fit with what we know about the history of the world.

 

[trophy33]

But Genesis 1 does not say that the waters were not created. It says that when God created the heavens and the earth there was darkness and water on the earth that He created:

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.” (Ge 1:1-2 NKJV)

When you isolate Genesis 1 from its cultural context, you can come with any private interpretation (which is the fallacy for example the YEC organizations are committing). But if we understand the cultural context of the text, then we may better guess what the authors meant.

Cosmic ocean - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[David Lamb]

God created all things, and to explain how He did so, someone created the Genesis story to fit the knowledge that the Ancient Jews had. It makes more sense since the Genesis account does not fit with what we know about the history of the world.

But Genesis does not "explain how He did so," it just says that He said, "Let there be...." and there was..... And it's not just Genesis. Passages such as John 1, and Hebrews 1:10:

“And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.” (Heb 1:10 NKJV, quoting from Psalm 102)

I would say that our beliefs about the history of the world are dependant on our belief about the bible, not the other way around.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

But Genesis does not "explain how He did so," it just says that He said, "Let there be...." and there was..... And it's not just Genesis. Passages such as John 1, and Hebrews 1:10:

“And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.” (Heb 1:10 NKJV, quoting from Psalm 102)

So the phrase "God said" isn't a how to you?

I would say that our beliefs about the history of the world are dependant on our belief about the bible, not the other way around.

Even following that line of logic, there is still no way to reconcile the Earth being as old as it and with the history it shows, and the short time frame and the order of creation that Genesis shows. So a literal Genesis account is incorrect as literal fact and history.

 

[David Lamb]

When you isolate Genesis 1 from its cultural context, you can come with any private interpretation (which is the fallacy for example the YEC organizations are committing). But if we understand the cultural context of the text, then we may better guess what the authors meant.

Cosmic ocean - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But those who believe as I do don't rely only on Genesis. Other passages of the bible, such as John 1, support the teaching that God created all things. The apostle John was not a Babylonian Jew, nor was he writing a mythological drama. He explains His reason for writing:

“And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.” (Joh 20:30-31 NKJV)