The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[SabbathBlessings]

Futurism does not make any biblical sense. Everything was to happen quickly, in the lifetimes of the first church. The book of Revelation itself stresses the word "soon" or "quickly" so many times I even lost count.

I do not believe in futurism.

I believe in the historicist view.

Rev 1:19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.

 

[trophy33]

you named these writings you quoted perfectly: VIEWS AND TRADITIONS, they are Not the words of GOD but of Men!

So? I did not say those are the words of God. You must read better. Those are the words of the first church.

 

[trophy33]

Rev 1:19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.

But not hundreds of years or thousands of years after.

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1

Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy...because the time is near.
Rev 1:3

"God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

"Behold, I am coming quickly:"
Rev 22:7

"Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is near. "
Rev 22:10

"And, behold, I come quickly;"
Rev 22:12

 

[SabbathBlessings]

But not hundreds of years or thousands of years after.


The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1

Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy...because the time is near.
Rev 1:3

"God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

"Behold, I am coming quickly:"
Rev 22:7

"Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is near. "
Rev 22:10

"And, behold, I come quickly;"
Rev 22:12

Rev 1:19

The view of the Bible, some things have happened, some present and some still to come, like the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

 

[trophy33]

I don’t think you are understanding Rev 1:19

The view of the Bible, some things have happened, some present and some still to come, like the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

I dont think you understand it. You are just trying to force yourself somehow into the text for it to be at least partially about you, but it is not. Both the beginning and the end of the book are enclosed in "soon".

 

[fhansen]

Any documents, writings that GOD did change the way the sabbath must be obeyed? something thatimportant, the sabbath being a sign of the covenant most certainly will never change, scripture if full of texts on this.

It's important, of course; even though Christ's followers are no longer "under the law" the commandments must be obeyed nonetheless, in the new way of and by the Spirit. And Christ revealed to His people how that is to be done. And we have testimony from the early fathers as to how this was done. This is revelation received and put into practice by the church from the beggining and they knew it so there's no need for it to have been written; the oral form was just as sufficient-at least until some late-comers arrive who determine that Scripture was meant to serve as a perfectly clear and complete catechism. Even the Bereans, diligent as they were, required Christ's disciples and the knowledge they had-derived apart from Scripture-to explain the meaning of Scripture to them.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

It's important, of course; even though Christ's followers are no longer "under the law" the commandments must be obeyed nonetheless, in the new way of and by the Spirit. And Christ revealed to His people how that is to be done. And we have testimony from the early fathers as to how this was done. This is revelation received and put into practice by the church from the beggining and they knew it so there's no need for it to have been written; the oral form was just as sufficient-at least until some late-comers arrive who determine that Scripture was meant to serve as a perfectly clear and complete catechism. Even the Bereans, diligent as they were, required Christ's disciples and the knowledge they had-derived apart from Scripture-to explain the meaning of Scripture to them.

The oral form can easily be changed over time and cannot be trusted today, the written words of God must have priority over anything else, of this I am certain. but what you say about the commandments that they must be obeyed is truth, as described by Jeremiah 31:31-33, from the stone to our hearts and Mind. It is why I rely fully on the words and teachings of Christ, with this, I cannot go wrong.

Blessings

 

[fhansen]

The oral form can easily be changed over time and cannot be trusted today, the written words of God must have priority over anything else, of this I am certain.

And that's still only your opinon. Scripture isn't perfectly clear to begin with on many relevant concepts or teachings, which is why plausible disagreements exist when going by Scripture alone. And Christ simply doesn't jump through our hoops or dance to the tunes we play.

 

[trophy33]

the written words of God must have priority over anything else

Are you able to precisely define "the words of God" term and how they have priority over anything else?

 

[trophy33]

And that's still only your opinon. Scripture isn't perfectly clear to begin with on many relevant concepts or teachings, which is why plausible disagreements exist when going by Scripture alone. And Christ simply doesn't jump through our hoops or dance to the tunes we play.

Agreed, Bible is not a systematic theology catechism. Its rather a library of various writings church found useful for some purpose or in some way.

 

[chevyontheriver]

To have to correct people by quoting proper verses in the proper context does not make me happy on the contrary, it makes me very Sad. People do not know scripture, instead they follow the words of men. it Confirms what Christ said about not many find the narrow way that leads to eternal life.

Pretty elitist. You got the truth, you and your nine other people, while the vast majority of those who call themselves Christian will rot in hell.

I am not SDA just reading the bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit that teaches me the truth and opens my mind to understanding.

Not SDA? OK. One of those other Seventh Day Baptists or whatever. Rare as hen's teeth. Fine.

What makes you think you have the guidance of the Holy Spirit and all of those other people who you disagree with do not have and never had the guidance of the Holy Spirit? It's somewhat arrogant of you to presume you got it right and all of those other people over there got it wrong and are going to hell over your following the traditions of men which tell you to only worship on the day devoted to Saturn. But I will not and cannot condemn you, as you condemn me, for 'worshiping on the wrong day'.

If you had the guidance of the Holy Spirit you would have something in common with the Christians of the Ninevah Plains, who still worship in Aramaic. I've got something in common with them. Do you know who I am even talking about?

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

And that's still only your opinon. Scripture isn't perfectly clear to begin with on many relevant concepts or teachings, which is why plausible disagreements exist when going by Scripture alone. And Christ simply doesn't jump through our hoops or dance to the tunes we play.

if texts from oral traditions align with the teachings of Jesus they can be trusted.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Pretty elitist. You got the truth, you and your nine other people, while the vast majority of those who call themselves Christian will rot in hell.

Not SDA? OK. One of those other Seventh Day Baptists or whatever. Rare as hen's teeth. Fine.

What makes you think you have the guidance of the Holy Spirit and all of those other people who you disagree with do not have and never had the guidance of the Holy Spirit? It's somewhat arrogant of you to presume you got it right and all of those other people over there got it wrong and are going to hell over your following the traditions of men which tell you to only worship on the day devoted to Saturn. But I will not and cannot condemn you, as you condemn me, for 'worshiping on the wrong day'.

If you had the guidance of the Holy Spirit you would have something in common with the Christians of the Ninevah Plains, who still worship in Aramaic. I've got something in common with them. Do you know who I am even talking about.

Jhn 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
Jhn 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever—
Jhn 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.
Jhn 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

so I guess you are from Iraq?

I am non denominational and follow the teachings of Christ, I follow his voice only.

 

[trophy33]

I am non denominational and follow the teachings of Christ, I follow his voice only.

If you hear his voice, what do you need the Bible for?

If you find the voice only in the written text of the Bible, how do you know you get it right?

When somebody just reads the Bible and claim he does not follow human tradition, it shows the ignorance. Bible as such is a product of dozens if not hundreds of people. Can you even read it in the original language? In what manuscripts? Which canon of books? Which textual families? You rely on people to pick and create everything for you.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

If you hear his voice, what do you need the Bible for?

If you find the voice only in the written text of the Bible, how do you know you get it right?

When somebody just reads the Bible and claim he does not follow human tradition, it shows the ignorance. Bible as such is a product of dozens if not hundreds of people. Can you even read it in the original language? In what manuscripts? What canon of books? Which textual families? You rely on people to pick and create everything for you.

It is by the spirit of truth that I know see john 14:17 ask for it and you will know to.

 

[trophy33]

It is by the spirit of truth that I know see john 14:17 ask for it and you will know to.

None of my questions were answered, so again:

If you hear his voice, what do you need the Bible for?

If you find the voice only in the written text of the Bible, how do you know you get it right?

When somebody just reads the Bible and claim he does not follow human tradition, it shows the ignorance. Bible as such is a product of dozens if not hundreds of people. Can you even read it in the original language? In what manuscripts? What canon of books? Which textual families? You rely on people to pick and create everything for you.

 

[fhansen]

if texts from oral traditions align with the teachings of Jesus they can be trusted.

Yes, oral traditions cannot conflict with Scripture, while Scripture may not report on all things, or may not be perfectly clear. And this is why, for example, the church, whether in the east or the west, holds to baptismal regeneration. Because, while Scripture may be interpreted reasonably enough either way, for or against, baptism is nonetheless always associated with our rebirth, which Jesus both told us and modeled for us, and, from the beginning the church has simply known no other way than that. That's an example of both scripture and tradition working together and complementing and confirming each other.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

None of my questions were answered, so again:

If you hear his voice, what do you need the Bible for?

If you find the voice only in the written text of the Bible, how do you know you get it right?

When somebody just reads the Bible and claim he does not follow human tradition, it shows the ignorance. Bible as such is a product of dozens if not hundreds of people. Can you even read it in the original language? In what manuscripts? What canon of books? Which textual families? You rely on people to pick and create everything for you.

I refuse to argue with you, take what i say or not but it's all from the bible texts and you can verify all i say and disprove me with the proper texts, I have no problem with that.

 

[trophy33]

I refuse to argue with you, take what i say or not but it's all from the bible texts and you can verify all i say and disprove me with the proper texts, I have no problem with that.

Ok, you refuse to answer, so I will guess it:

1. You do not hear God's voice, you only find it in the biblical texts.
2. You refuse to learn the original languages, textual families, manuscripts, canons, cultural contexts - you blindly rely on the human traditions and on your "gut feeling" while reading their end product. To feel better, you call it "the words of God" to give it more authority.
3. You feel confident enough to refuse everything else which does not correspond to the specific English text you individually interpret, without having a clue how that text came to be.
4. You expect us to play "English Bible verses cards" and if you will not find our interpretation to match your interpretation, you will refuse it as against "the words of God", because your individual interpretation and the verses you picked will always be the highest card.

 

[RandyPNW]

The Sabbath promoters may not change--that seems clear. I think God could've made it clearer simply by stating, through his Apostles, that the entire Law, with all of its commandments, died with the failed covenant given through Moses.

In fact, they did say this to some degree but may have left some ambiguity for those who wished to ignore Faith and follow, instead, the path of Legalism. The argument Paul gave against the Legalists is clear--God's covenant of Law is eternal, for "all your generations." But it was a temporary Covenant and not an eternal Promise.

Of course, a covenant can be a perennial requirement associated with a particular covenant, and not a promise that all parties would succeed in that covenant. We are told in Scriptures that this Covenant of Law would in fact fail, indicating that the requirements, along with their promises, would suffer loss.

It is to be noted that the Legalists always quote the perennial nature of the Law for Israel but never quote the conditional nature of the Law--the fact that the Covenant of Law would fail! And they never quote how the Covenant was only for Israel, and not for the whole world.

So, without the Covenant of Law all that remained was God's original mandate for Man, to faithfully present His image, along with the eventual promise of restoration for those who conform and are thus pardoned. Final righteousness, then, did not come from the Law, but rather, Jesus provided in his own perfect example a means of forgiveness from God, substituting for our shortcomings his ideal life.

Though the Covenant of Law was irretrievably broken, God's righteousness and mercy lived on through the Grace poured out on us through Jesus Christ. To return to the Covenant of Law, is to confine righteousness to Israel. And even worse, it is to condemn all to the eternal failure that Israel exemplified.

We now live through Christ, and Christ alone. All parts of the Law were fulfilled in his life. And he had absolutely no need to live by a Law of Redemption, such as was the Law of Moses.