Limited atonement !

[fhansen]

You have no way of proving that God's remarkable gifts can be rejected.

“It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. “ Heb 6:4-7

“If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.” 2 Pet 2:20-22

“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.” John 15:5-6

 

[fhansen]

Faith isn't merely belief. Faith is the gift of eternal life and it is given by God. Sinners can't believe or have faith. Preachers and missionaries can't give people faith. Baptism doesn't give people faith. Faith is 100% given by God to children of wrath. All have sinned but not all have faith. Not by anything we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us!

---

Faith is the realization of reconciliation with, union with, solidarity with, agreement with, subjugation to, God. It’s to accept God as our God, as opposed to Adam’s rejection of God as God. That relationship, itself, is just-that which man is made for, the basis of his righteousness-man is lost, sick, dead, disordered without it. And as with any relationship this one can still be rejected, trampled upon, mocked, compromised, ignored at any point in our lives.

 

[d taylor]

Faith isn't merely belief. Faith is the gift of eternal life and it is given by God. Sinners can't believe or have faith. Preachers and missionaries can't give people faith. Baptism doesn't give people faith. Faith is 100% given by God to children of wrath. All have sinned but not all have faith. Not by anything we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us!

---

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​

A person receives God gift of Eternal Life by belief. I am a sinner and i believed, Moses was a sinner and believed Paul was a sinner and believed, etc...

Again every person has the ability to believe, now their belief may not be in Jesus. But still they have the ability to believe in something. so people are born with the ability to believe.

 

[fhansen]

"AI Overview
A "skewed gospel" refers to a distorted or inaccurate presentation of the Christian message, often emphasizing certain aspects while neglecting or misrepresenting others, potentially leading to a misunderstanding of the core tenets of faith.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• What it is:
  A skewed gospel deviates from the biblical understanding of salvation, the nature of God, and the role of Jesus Christ.
• Examples of skewed gospels:
  • Therapeutic Gospel: Focuses on personal fulfillment and self-help rather than repentance and faith in Christ.
  • Moralist Gospel: Emphasizes good deeds and following rules as the path to salvation, rather than grace through faith.
  • Works Gospel: Suggests that salvation is earned through good works or adherence to religious practices, rather than being a gift from God.
  • Legalistic Gospel: Places undue emphasis on rules and regulations, often creating a burdensome and restrictive view of faith.
  • Universal Gospel: Claims that everyone is inherently saved, regardless of their beliefs or actions, thus minimizing the importance of faith and repentance.
  • Fire Insurance Gospel: Focuses on avoiding hell rather than embracing the joy and purpose found in a relationship with God.
• Why it's a problem:
  A skewed gospel can lead people astray, preventing them from experiencing the true transformative power of the Gospel and potentially hindering their spiritual growth.
• Importance of a true Gospel:
  The true gospel, as presented in the Bible, emphasizes:
  • God's holiness and man's sinfulness.
  • Jesus's atoning death and resurrection as the basis for salvation.
  • The necessity of repentance and faith in Christ for forgiveness and eternal life.
• How to discern a skewed gospel:
  • Study the Bible: Familiarize yourself with the teachings of Scripture to discern truth from falsehood.
  • Listen with discernment: Evaluate the messages you hear and compare them to the Word of God.
  • Measure everything by the Word of God: Use the Bible as your ultimate standard for truth.
  • Focus on Christ: Ensure that the message you share and the message you receive centers on the person and work of Jesus Christ."

Wow, better theology thru AI now. Let’s not think for ourselves. Some of its offerings weren’t too skewed, at least.

 

[Brightfame52]

Jesus prayer indicates limited atonement !

Jn 17:9

9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

Now why did Christ refuse to pray for everyone ? Because all were not His that had been given to Him by His Father like His Sheep had been Jn 10:27-30

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The same as in Jn 17 :2

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Since Christ didnt pray for them, then He didnt die for them as He did His Sheep !

 

[Brightfame52]

Exactly

So thats why you reject the Gospel Truth of limited atonement, simple as that

 

[fhansen]

So thats why you reject the Gospel Truth of limited atonement, simple as that

Nope, that’s exactly why I reject it. To accept such a doctrine would be to deny the truth. And, incidentally, no one for 1500 years believed that Christ’s sacrifice wasn’t sufficient to save all.

 

[fhansen]

ooops.....
human statements: very skewed. too skewed.

Yes, LA is a false, human, tradition of man, void of understanding of both the nature of God and His will for man. God’s people held the correct view from the beginning.

 

[Rescued One]

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​

A person receives God gift of Eternal Life by belief. I am a sinner and i believed, Moses was a sinner and believed Paul was a sinner and believed, etc...

Again every person has the ability to believe, now their belief may not be in Jesus. But still they have the ability to believe in something. so people are born with the ability to believe.

Sinners are not believers until they are given the new birth. They are part of the world that follows Satan.

 

[Brightfame52]

Nope, that’s exactly why I reject it. To accept such a doctrine would be to deny the truth. And, incidentally, no one for 1500 years believed that Christ’s sacrifice wasn’t sufficient to save all.

You reject limited atonement you reject Christ and His Gospel that's all to it!

 

[d taylor]

Sinners are not believers until they are given the new birth. They are part of the world that follows Satan.

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​

Well i am not going to keep going back and forth with your calvanist theology. If you want to believe that fine, but i completely reject the calvanist theology that people are born again before they believe.

The Bible plainly states believe in Jesus and receive Eternal Life, it does not say receive Eternal Life so you can believe in Jesus.

 

[Rescued One]

Yes, LA is a false, human, tradition of man, void of understanding of both the nature of God and His will for man. God’s people held the correct view from the beginning.

The Word of God has a different account.

 

[Brightfame52]

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​

Well i am not going to keep going back and forth with your calvanist theology. If you want to believe that fine, but i completely reject the calvanist theology that people are born again before they believe.

The Bible plainly states believe in Jesus and receive Eternal Life, it does not say receive Eternal Life so you can believe in Jesus.

Then you reject the Gospel!

 

[fhansen]

You reject limited atonement you reject Christ and His Gospel that's all to it!

Ok. We certainly aren't going to resolve this one now. I'd recommend reading both the Bible and history, the views of the faith by the early Christians in any case.

 

[fhansen]

The Word of God has a different account.

The word of God can be understood either way, plausibly enough

 

[Rescued One]

Nope, that’s exactly why I reject it. To accept such a doctrine would be to deny the truth. And, incidentally, no one for 1500 years believed that Christ’s sacrifice wasn’t sufficient to save all.

Are you a universalist?

John 6: 3 7
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

 

[Rescued One]

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​

Well i am not going to keep going back and forth with your calvanist theology. If you want to believe that fine, but i completely reject the calvanist theology that people are born again before they believe.

The Bible plainly states believe in Jesus and receive Eternal Life, it does not say receive Eternal Life so you can believe in Jesus.

No, you can't follow Satan and God at the same time. I said nothing about Calvin.

Do you reject Ephesians 2? I don't. How about John 3?

BIBLE, John 3
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[Rescued One]

Well i am not going to keep going back and forth with your calvanist theology. If you want to believe that fine, but i completely reject the calvanist theology that people are born again before they believe.​

The point is a person believes WHEN God gives him/her faith.

Ephesians 2!

The Bible plainly states believe in Jesus and receive Eternal Life, it does not say receive Eternal Life so you can believe in Jesus.

I agree.

 

[fhansen]

Are you a universalist?

John 6: 3 7
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

No, I simply believe man's will plays a role, no.matter how small, in whether or not he's ultimately going to value and love God and so live with Him eternally-or otherwise. And God foreknows those who will do so. The foundation is grace, and yet grace can be resisted; man can say "no" at any point along the way. Without grace, he cannot say "yes", and he'd have nothing to say yes to. But he can always refuse to open the door to begin with, or turn back away later, as well.

 

[Brightfame52]

Ok. We certainly aren't going to resolve this one now. I'd recommend reading both the Bible and history, the views of the faith by the early Christians in any case.

You reject limited atonement you reject Christ and His Gospel that's all to it!