Let's Track the Economy (with objective empirical data?)

[Merrill]

Can you please support this claim with credible evidence?

evidence? Every statement I have seen from congressional Democrats, MSM reporters, pundits, etc. have been decidedly anti-tariff

Democrats Call Out Trump After He Says Tariffs Will Cause ‘A Little Disturbance’

In his speech to Congress, Trump conceded his steep import tariffs will have some negative impact, but insisted it “won’t be much.”

www.forbes.com

can you provide me with evidence of Democrats who support tariffs?

 

[ozso]

This is almost certainly false (i.e., that are those on the left do not care about people here). I can pretty much guarantee you will not be able to provide any credible data to support this rather astonishing claim.

LOL. Nice editing. You basically just proved what I said in my entire statement:

ozso said:
Feelings generated by experiencing hardship. Should a great number of American citizens experiencing hardship be ignored? Should they be told the hardship they're suffering is just anecdotal?

With the democratic left it's those people in other countries suffering hardship need our care and compassion. Whereas when it comes to American citizens suffering hardship, they callously say the data shows everything is hunky-dory, so the hardship they're suffering is just feelings. Anecdotal nonsense.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

LOL. Nice editing. You basically just proved what I said in my entire statement:

ozso said:
Feelings generated by experiencing hardship. Should a great number of American citizens experiencing hardship be ignored? Should they be told the hardship they're suffering is just anecdotal?

With the democratic left it's those people in other countries suffering hardship need our care and compassion. Whereas when it comes to American citizens suffering hardship, they callously say the data shows everything is hunky-dory, so the hardship they're suffering is just feelings. Anecdotal nonsense.

Unfortunately, now with Trump and his callous cutbacks and tariffs we can all become more aware of hardship and suffering right here in the United States

 

[ozso]

Unfortunately, now with Trump and his callous cutbacks and tariffs we can all become more aware of hardship and suffering right here in the United States

That's what I was told last time. But it didn't happen. Quite the opposite really. One of my hardships was having to pay an expensive penalty for not being able to afford health insurance - which I had gotten free from my employer for 18 years, until Obamacare killed it. Thanks to Trump, I no longer had to pay the penalty, and my taxes were much lower.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Investors will be closely watching the inflation report coming Wednesday, analysts said.

The consumer price index, a key gauge of inflation, showed Wednesday that prices rose by 2.8 percent in February from a year earlier, the Labor Department said. That was cooler than the 3 percent annual gain reported for January and an unexpected signal of progress in combating high inflation.

Core prices were up 3.1 percent for the year, an improvement from the prior month. Economists care about this benchmark because it provides a better sense of underlying inflation.

Economists said Wednesday’s inflation report, while unexpectedly positive, comes amid significant headwinds to the economy as the Trump administration’s trade policies begin to kick-in.

Ok, everyone, wave goodbye to Bidenomics!

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

That's what I was told last time. But it didn't happen. Quite the opposite really. One of my hardships was having to pay an expensive penalty for not being able to afford health insurance - which I had gotten free from my employer for 18 years, until Obamacare killed it. Thanks to Trump, I no longer had to pay the penalty, and my taxes were much lower.

You ain't seen nothing yet. We are just getting started. prepare for pain and hardship.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Does objective empirical data exist. Well, I think so.

10 sites that help you track the economy

If you're worried about the state of the economy, but you want to learn about it for yourself, we have you covered.

www.cnet.com

12/14/24

GDP Growth	2.80%
Unemployment Rate	4.20%
Inflation Rate CPI	2.70%
Disposable Income	$21,855
Deficit	$624.2 B
Debt	#36.13 T
Federal Funds Interest Rate	4.75%
Trade	$-73.8 B
Job Growth	227,000
Wage Growth	4.60%
Dow	43,828

That was in December.
Today we have

	3/12/2025​
GDP Growth	2%​
Unemploymnet Rate	4.10%​
Inflation Rate CPI	2.80%​
Disposable Income	$22,209 B
Deficit	$838 B
Debt	$36.22 T
FF Interset Rate	4.33%​
Trade	-$131.4 B
Job Growth
Wage Growth	4.00%​
Dow	41,177​
S & P 500	5,578​
30 yr Mortgage	6.72%​

Let's keep an eye on that CPI.

 

[ozso]

You ain't seen nothing yet. We are just getting started. prepare for pain and hardship.

Again, I heard all of that before when I was in threads like this on another forum. I kept hearing over and over again how the working class especially was going to suffer badly. I never experienced any suffering whatsoever.

Rather Trump said he was out to help the working class, and that's what I experienced. But I've heard I can't go by that because it's anecdotal and instead I have to go by what the data on some website says.

Put another way, I think you and others who say the same thing, once again, don't have a realistic view whatsoever. Or really are tuning into and accepting a unrealistic view. Most likely a year from now, I'll be hearing about how awful things are for me, according to the data, when in reality I'll be doing just fine.

However, if I happen to be wrong, it's not like there's anything I could've done to change it. Whether I'm optimistic or pessimistic, it's not going to make any difference, because it's completely out of my control. But at least I won't be suffering with angst in the meantime by being pessimistic.

 

[ozso]

That was in December.
Today we have

	3/12/2025​
GDP Growth	2%​
Unemploymnet Rate	4.10%​
Inflation Rate CPI	2.80%​
Disposable Income	$22,209 B
Deficit	$838 B
Debt	$36.22 T
FF Interset Rate	4.33%​
Trade	-$131.4 B
Job Growth
Wage Growth	4.00%​
Dow	41,177​
S & P 500	5,578​
30 yr Mortgage	6.72%​

Let's keep an eye on that CPI.

Yeah let's, because the new administration is only a few weeks old, and any bad figures presented are most likely bleed-over from the last administration.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Whether I'm optimistic or pessimistic, it's not going to make any difference, because it's completely out of my control.

True. but at least you can acknowledge reality rather than keep your head in the sand.

"Some website"? You don't trust federal government statistics?
Well, now that such sourced are being gutted and taken over it truly is a question of how accurate they will actually be from now on.

 

[ozso]

True. but at least you can acknowledge reality rather than keep your head in the sand.

I'll acknowledge the circumstances I'm actually experiencing in reality. If prognostication was all that accurate, then we'd always know exactly how things are going to turn out and they'd always turn out exactly as predicted. Also being Chicken Little isn't any better than being an ostrich. Although Chicken Little is dealing with a whole lot more stress.

"Some website"? You don't trust falderal government statistics?
Well, now that such sourced are being gutted and taken over it truly is a question of how accurate they will actually be from now on.

I've seen a lot of stuff posted from all kinds of different sources. And again, I actually go by what's actually being experienced by myself and others, as opposed to data no matter what the source. In other words if I see it's a cloudless sunny day, I'm not going to decide it's not because a website, even a government website, tells me it's overcast and raining. If you know what I mean.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I'll acknowledge the circumstances I'm actually experiencing in reality. If prognostication was all that accurate, then we'd always know exactly how things are going to turn out and they'd turn out exactly as predicted.

I've seen a lot of stuff posted from all kinds of different sources. And again, I actually go by what's actually being experienced by myself and others, as opposed to data no matter what the source. In other words if I see it's a cloudless sunny day, I'm not going to decide it's not because a website, even a government website, tells me it's overcast and raining. If you know what I mean.

You sound like a solipsist.

Solipsism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Are you a flat Earther also?

 

[expos4ever]

evidence? Every statement I have seen from congressional Democrats, MSM reporters, pundits, etc. have been decidedly anti-tariff

Democrats Call Out Trump After He Says Tariffs Will Cause ‘A Little Disturbance’

In his speech to Congress, Trump conceded his steep import tariffs will have some negative impact, but insisted it “won’t be much.”

www.forbes.com

Perhaps there has been a misunderstanding. My point is that I'm quite sure that most Democrats would agree that there are circumstances in which tariffs are indeed appropriate. I believe that most economists would say that the particular tariffs that Donald Trump is promoting are not wise.

 

[expos4ever]

With the democratic left it's those people in other countries suffering hardship need our care and compassion. Whereas when it comes to American citizens suffering hardship, they callously say the data shows everything is hunky-dory, so the hardship they're suffering is just feelings. Anecdotal nonsense.

This is a complex situation. If the metrics are sufficiently fine-grained, and they show that everything is indeed going well, then, yes, unfortunate though it may be, the "feelings" of those who think things are not going well are indeed anecdotal.

Human beings are notorious for being overly negative about their own situations - the hard evidence may show that there are no problems and that things are going well, but we still tend to invent problems.

Having said this, it is of course possible that the metrics used to gauge the health of the economy are not sufficiently fine-grained to actually capture the situation of regular people. In that case, of course, it would be inappropriate to point to the statistics and thereby discount the complaints of the "masses".

 

[ozso]

You sound like a solipsist.

Solipsism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The short version of that is, a solipsist is someone who believes that only their own mind exists. That doesn't apply to me.

Are you a flat Earther also?

It's amazing how much analysis based on observation of events, is being condemned. The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command - George Orwell, 1984.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

not sufficiently fine-grained

I appreciate this attention to granularity. But most of us are too obtuse to do the digging.
Fortunately with CPI, we can drill down to specific commodities and services.

Consumer Price Index Factsheets

Consumer Price Index Factsheets

www.bls.gov

 

[ozso]

This is a complex situation. If the metrics are sufficiently fine-grained, and they show that everything is indeed going well, then, yes, unfortunate though it may be, the "feelings" of those who think things are not going well are indeed anecdotal.

Human beings are notorious for being overly negative about their own situations - the hard evidence may show that there are no problems and that things are going well, but we still tend to invent problems.

Having said this, it is of course possible that the metrics used to gauge the health of the economy are not sufficiently fine-grained to actually capture the situation of regular people. In that case, of course, it would be inappropriate to point to the statistics and thereby discount the complaints of the "masses".

Here's the story. I live downtown. All I have to do is walk around town to see how this nation is looking more and more like a third world county. When I moved here 10 years ago it was charming, now it's dangerous. And it's like that all over the country. But hey if the data says otherwise, then it must just be my imagination. Or I need to get myself a pair of blinders.

 

[NxNW]

Here's the story. I live downtown. All I have to do is walk around town to see how this nation is looking more and more like a third world county. When I moved here 10 years ago it was charming, now it's dangerous. And it's like that all over the country. But hey if the data says otherwise, then it must just be my imagination. Or I need to get myself a pair of blinders.

Trump supporters oppose infrastructure spending, so there you go.

 

[ozso]

Trump supporters oppose infrastructure spending, so there you go.

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Deficit

$838 B

U.S. budget deficit surged in February, passing $1 trillion for year-to-date record

Government spending eased slightly on a monthly basis though it still far outpaced revenue, according to a Treasury Department statement Wednesday. The deficit totaled just over $307 billion for the month, nearly 2½ times what it was in January and 3.7% higher than February 2024.

Receipts and expenditures set records for the month, a Treasury spokesman said.

For the year, the deficit totaled $1.15 trillion through the first five months of fiscal 2025. The total is about $318 billion more than the same span in 2024, or roughly 38% higher, and set a record for the period.