IS THERE SUBJECT CALLED OSAS ?

[Josheb]

And I am a ACTS 9 , DIPENSATIONALIST , PER-TRI and PER- MILL and there is no Greek for RAPTURE AT ALL !!

And is no works im Eph 2:8 , for by Grace you are having been saved , through faith and NOT // OU , and is a

DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , which means no one can everrrrrrrrr be saved by WORKS !

dan p

dan p

I and delighted to read you saying that.

1. Can you cite for me a verse that explicitly identifies a specified period of time as a dispensation?
2. Do you believe the rapture is an event that is different from, separated in time, from the second coming?
3. Do you believe God has two different peoples, Israel and the Church?
4. Do you believe God has two different purposes, one for Israel and another for the Church?
5. Do you believe the Jews will regain their geographic territory; all the land God originally promised to them?
6. Do you believe the Jews will build another temple?
7. If a temple is to be rebuilt, will that happen prior to the rapture, after the rapture but before Christ establishes his millennial kingdom on earth, or after he establishes his earthly kingdom?
8. Do you believe the Jews, as a nation, will reinstitute the Levitical priesthood (and when will that occur)?
9. Do you believe the Jews will re-institute animal sacrifices (and when will that occur)?

That is a lot of questions. Short, simple, concise, succinct answers will be appreciated. We can discuss any necessary details once the answers are provided. I do not need Dispensational Premillennialism explained to me. It is your answers to these questions I seek, not what Darby, Scofield, Chafer, Ryrie, Pentecost, Walvoord, Saucy, Ice, Vlach, Walker, Watson, Blaising, Bock, and others say in answer to these questions. Thx

 

[Josheb]

Know you not we are the Temple of God is what the verse says. Not sure what your issue is. The text in 1 Cor is not speaking of the New City.

Please do not make this personal; I do not have an "issue," and if there is a lack of surety then how could you possibly speak to it? The point being made is that our hope is not in the work of human hands, but in the work of God. 1 Corinthians 3:5-9 affirms that. The temple of God and the new city are not mutually exclusive conditions.

John 2:13-22
The Passover of the Jews was near, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. And he found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. And he made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and he poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables; and to those who were selling the doves he said, "Take these things away; stop making hy Father's house a place of business." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Your house will consume me." The Jews then said to him, "What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?" Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews then said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?" But He was speaking of the temple of his body. So when he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.

Jesus is the temple of God, not a building made of stone made by human hands.

1 Corinthians 3:16
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

It is the saints, the body of Christ, who are the temple of God.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

We, the temple, are created in Christ and, as the previous verse (v. 9) stated, that salvation by grace through faith is not of ourselves.

Ephesians 2:14-22
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. And he came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

We, the convert to Christ, are growing into the holy temple, also being built into a dwelling place of God's Spirit.

This op asks whether or not there is a "subject" called OSAS. The answer to that question is, "Yes!" OSAS is, under differing labels is the orthodox Reformed viewpoint. This op asks, "Can I lose my salvation?" and the answer to that question is, "If you are genuinely saved then, no, you cannot lose your salvation because your salvation is not up to you. You are God's workmanship, not your own."

In order for a saved person, a person who is the temple of God, to lose his or her salvation the temple would have to be destroyed. The price paid (the shed blood of Christ) would have to be made worthless or refunded to God. Our hope is not in the work of human hands, but in the work of God. Our hope is in a temple and a city not made by human hands. The two are not mutually exclusive.


.

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

Of course you can, salvation doesn't become part of you, it's a gift of grace. If at one point in time you decide to no longer believe or no longer want it — because a sinful life pleases you more — you returned the gift. There is a way of salvation and it takes a lot of work to go to the end of that way.

Aristarkos

Yes salvation becomes part of you because it's called eternal life. Eternal life is not temporary. Nothing could be more clear. It's also called being born again. How could you be unborn? You can't. Passed from death unto life. You cannot lose the fact that you've been born again just like you couldn't lose your physical birth. It's once saved always saved, period.

 

[Palmfever]

As a very young man , I attended a assembly that BELIEVED in OSAS and did not meant and any one that held that position and never ever

heard it preached from the pulpit !! can you LOOSE YOUR SALVATION ??

What say you ?

dan p

Ezekiel 18
19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?’ When the son has done what is lawful and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. 20 The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

21 “But if a wicked man turns away from all his sins which he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness which he has done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, says the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? 24 But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and does the same abominable things that the wicked man does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds which he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, he shall die.

25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, he shall die for it; for the iniquity which he has committed he shall die. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is lawful and right, he shall save his life. 28 Because he considered and turned away from all the transgressions which he had committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ O house of Israel, are my ways not just? Is it not your ways that are not just?

30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, says the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin.[d] 31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed against me, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of any one, says the Lord God; so turn, and live.”

 

[BNR32FAN]

As a very young man , I attended a assembly that BELIEVED in OSAS and did not meant and any one that held that position and never ever

heard it preached from the pulpit !! can you LOOSE YOUR SALVATION ??

What say you ?

dan p

Absolutely we can lose it, it isn’t called a covenant for nothing. If we fail to uphold our part of the agreement God is not obligated to uphold His part of it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

And , if can loose salvation , will you give a verse where THAT is written ??

dan p

2 Timothy 2:12 is probably the strongest passage of scripture I’ve seen in scripture.

“It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2‬:‭11‬-‭13‬ ‭NASB

 

[BNR32FAN]

Ezekiel 18
19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?’ When the son has done what is lawful and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. 20 The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

21 “But if a wicked man turns away from all his sins which he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness which he has done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, says the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? 24 But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and does the same abominable things that the wicked man does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds which he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, he shall die.

25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, he shall die for it; for the iniquity which he has committed he shall die. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is lawful and right, he shall save his life. 28 Because he considered and turned away from all the transgressions which he had committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 29 Yet the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ O house of Israel, are my ways not just? Is it not your ways that are not just?

30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, says the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin.[d] 31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed against me, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of any one, says the Lord God; so turn, and live.”

Amen, we hear that same message echoed throughout the New Testament as well.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes salvation becomes part of you because it's called eternal life. Eternal life is not temporary. Nothing could be more clear. It's also called being born again. How could you be unborn? You can't. Passed from death unto life. You cannot lose the fact that you've been born again just like you couldn't lose your physical birth. It's once saved always saved, period.

Just because someone has been born again doesn’t mean they can’t die a second death. And according to James 5:19-20 believers can be thrown into the lake of fire.

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[Palmfever]

Amen, we hear that same message echoed throughout the New Testament as well.

Yes we do. That particular one does not mince words. Just lays it out.
I don't care where you've been or what you've done,
Turn to righteousness, your good.
Get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit!
Turn away from it your sunk.
And it ain't your parents fault, they'll answer for themselves.
I take no pleasure in any being lost, so get straight please.
Am I not just?

 

[Aristarkos]

Yes salvation becomes part of you because it's called eternal life. Eternal life is not temporary. Nothing could be more clear. It's also called being born again. How could you be unborn? You can't. Passed from death unto life. You cannot lose the fact that you've been born again just like you couldn't lose your physical birth. It's once saved always saved, period.

I posted this later in a reply to Dan:

Have you ever read I Corinthians 12? You see there a lot of the gifts of God mentioned, most of these God took back, they are no longer among us. Faith is a gift as well according to Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God". You think God can take back the gift of raising the dead and not the gift of faith? Paul warns about losing faith - not putting on the whole armour of God in Ephesians, see Ephesians 6:11 - 13.

I would like to add, after being born you can die, after being born from above you still can spiritually die, faith is always a matter of choice.

Aristarkos

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

Just because someone has been born again doesn’t mean they can’t die a second death. And according to James 5:19-20 believers can be thrown into the lake of fire.

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So where exactly does it say that believers can be thrown into the lake of fire? If you want to play this game of throwing random Bible verses around, then I can play this game too, but how about we play it with clear verses in which there is absolutely no ambiguity of what it is saying? How about that?

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

I posted this later in a reply to Dan:

I would like to add, after being born you can die, after being born from above you still can spiritually die, faith is always a matter of choice.

Aristarkos

It's a comparison and comparisons are never perfect. Yes you can die physically but physical birth is not the same as the spiritual birth. What I was trying to say is that you cannot lose the fact that you have been born. Even if you die physically, your tomb stone will still say that you were born in a certain day, etc. But yes it's not a perfect comparison because although physical life is not eternal, the Bible teaches that when being born again you are born into eternal life, not a life that is temporary.

 

[Aristarkos]

It's a comparison and comparisons are never perfect. Yes you can die physically but physical birth is not the same as the spiritual birth. What I was trying to say is that you cannot lose the fact that you have been born. Even if you die physically, your tomb stone will still say that you were born in a certain day, etc. But yes it's not a perfect comparison because although physical life is not eternal, the Bible teaches that when being born again you are born into eternal life, not a life that is temporary.

I think being born again or being born from above is one of those misunderstood Scriptures. To believe in Scripture and God you do not have to be born from above as is clear from John 3. Nicodemus a Pharisee believed in God and said to the Lord in vs 2. "... Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God ...". Still the Lord said to him in vs. 3 "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God". This is a proof there are stages of faith, because in 1 John 5:1 it says "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God". Both believe in God but one doesn't believe — yet — that Jesus is the Christ.

Because God made the comparison with our natural birth in which we are passive, so are we passive in our spiritual birth. In our natural birth we can choose to live or to end it prematurely or we can keep fighting — because life is a struggle — until we reach our last day. Our spiritual life is just as much a struggle, that's why so many who once believed no longer believe anything, switched churches or changed their religion all together.

Actually the Lord speaks about the different stages of faith in Mathew 13 in the parabel of the sower and Scripture says we can loose our faith or salvation in Gal. 5:1-5, Rom. 11:18-22, Heb. 6:4-6 and others. You can read more about loosing salvation here.

Aristarkos

 

[Dan Perez]

I think being born again or being born from above is one of those misunderstood Scriptures. To believe in Scripture and God you do not have to be born from above as is clear from John 3. Nicodemus a Pharisee believed in God and said to the Lord in vs 2. "... Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God ...". Still the Lord said to him in vs. 3 "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God". This is a proof there are stages of faith, because in 1 John 5:1 it says "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God". Both believe in God but one doesn't believe — yet — that Jesus is the Christ.

Because God made the comparison with our natural birth in which we are passive, so are we passive in our spiritual birth. In our natural birth we can choose to live or to end it prematurely or we can keep fighting — because life is a struggle — until we reach our last day. Our spiritual life is just as much a struggle, that's why so many who once believed no longer believe anything, switched churches or changed their religion all together.

Actually the Lord speaks about the different stages of faith in Mathew 13 in the parabel of the sower and Scripture says we can loose our faith or salvation in Gal. 5:1-5, Rom. 11:18-22, Heb. 6:4-6 and others. You can read more about loosing salvation here.

Aristarkos

Lets begin with Gal 5:1-5 and explain how any one looses salvation ??

dan p

 

[Aristarkos]

Lets begin with Gal 5:1-5 and explain how any one looses salvation ??

dan p

This is a serious question? OK I'll answer it for you, one looses salvation by getting circumcised as a gentile: "5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." This is one way you can give away — or lose — your salvation.

Aristarkos

 

[Aaron112]

Of course you can, salvation doesn't become part of you, it's a gift of grace. If at one point in time you decide to no longer believe or no longer want it — because a sinful life pleases you more — you returned the gift.

More like rejected Jesus. He is not happy with that, and likely will not accept that one back who has trampled underfoot Jesus' Grace.

 

[Aristarkos]

More like rejected Jesus. He is not happy with that, and likely will not accept that one back who has trampled underfoot Jesus' Grace.

There are many ways one can reject God's gift of grace — in this case salvation — and none is gratefully received...

Aristarkos

 

[Lukaris]

I have to say I don’t really understand concepts like losing salvation or assuming to be saved. Hebrews 11:1 says faith is the substance of things hoped for & the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1-40 gives us the examples of Old Testament saints “obtained a good testimony through faith” ( Hebrews 11:39-40).In their time, they didn’t receive the “promise” but their hope was sealed ( Hebrews 12:1-2). Hebrews 12:1-29 tells us how to live by faith which seems to be keeping it.

When I read Romans 5:1-21, justification by faith into grace involves hope amidst tribulations involving patience ( KJV), perseverance ( NKJV) etc. ( Romans 5:1-5). It is having these faith aspects in which we “shall be saved” ( Romans 5:9-10).


When I read 1 John 5:18, I need to understand there is a living commitment to faith ( the whole letter of 1 John testifies to this, 1 John 5:1-18 is clear enough but the entire letter should be read of course).

The thief on the cross ( Luke 23:39-43) met the Lord face to face and probably had the greatest joy alongside the greatest tribulation ( Romans 5:1-9 can be seen in this etc.). Otherwise life is generally lived out over years & the commitment is the same although hopefully with less tribulation ( Colossians 1:10-23, per Colossians 1:1-29).

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

I think being born again or being born from above is one of those misunderstood Scriptures. To believe in Scripture and God you do not have to be born from above as is clear from John 3. Nicodemus a Pharisee believed in God and said to the Lord in vs 2. "... Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God ...". Still the Lord said to him in vs. 3 "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God". This is a proof there are stages of faith, because in 1 John 5:1 it says "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God". Both believe in God but one doesn't believe — yet — that Jesus is the Christ.

Because God made the comparison with our natural birth in which we are passive, so are we passive in our spiritual birth. In our natural birth we can choose to live or to end it prematurely or we can keep fighting — because life is a struggle — until we reach our last day. Our spiritual life is just as much a struggle, that's why so many who once believed no longer believe anything, switched churches or changed their religion all together.

Actually the Lord speaks about the different stages of faith in Mathew 13 in the parabel of the sower and Scripture says we can loose our faith or salvation in Gal. 5:1-5, Rom. 11:18-22, Heb. 6:4-6 and others. You can read more about loosing salvation here.

Aristarkos

Right, so nobody goes to heaven then because we have all come short of the glory of God as the Bible says. Got it!

Either you admit that eternal life is, well, eternal (meaning that it's not temporary) or you admit that there is a contradiction in the Bible. Pick your poison. I can show you plenty of verses about eternal life if you want.

 

[Aristarkos]

Right, so nobody goes to heaven then because we have all come short of the glory of God as the Bible says. Got it!

You clearly don't get it seeing the aggression in your reply.

Aristarkos