Various denominations on the subject of the rapture

[Jipsah]

Baptists

Depends on the Baptists. The group I was raised in was amillennial and rejected The Rapture as unscriptural.

 

[Jipsah]

In our liturgy, we proclaim: "Christ has died. Christ is risen. Christ will come again."

Amen!

 

[RileyG]

Catholics and the majority of Protestants reject the rapture as taught by some Pentecostals.

 

[The Liturgist]

Catholics and the majority of Protestants reject the rapture as taught by some Pentecostals.

Well to be clear, as taught by premillenial dispensationalists and other Restorationists who may or may not be Pentecostal or Charismatic.

 

[The Liturgist]

@PloverWing and my other dearly beloved Episcopalian brethen such as @seeking.IAM @Jipsah and @Deegie if I linked you to a video of an Episcopal liturgy that features the choral setting of those words that I am frustrated with, would you be able to tell me if you know of any alternative settings? I misplaced my 1980 hymnal in my move to my new apartment, and am having some difficulty accessing parts of my ebook library due to the process of importing so many new PDFs of Orthodox liturgical texts which just hit the public domain.

I believe the setting in question that I find frustrating is also used in the C of E, but I’m sure I’ve heard a nicer setting at a 1979 liturgy. However the setting I am not thrilled with is the one we normally used at Fr. Steve’s church when I was a member.

Also what would you think of developing an elegant printed version of the 1979 BCP like the Standard Edition by subscription, but in this case as a fundraiser to help the persecuted Anglican Christians in Pakistan?

 

[AveChristusRex]

Well to be clear, as taught by premillenial dispensationalists and other Restorationists who may or may not be Pentecostal or Charismatic.

Seconded!

 

[PloverWing]

@PloverWing and my other dearly beloved Episcopalian brethen such as @seeking.IAM @Jipsah and @Deegie if I linked you to a video of an Episcopal liturgy that features the choral setting of those words that I am frustrated with, would you be able to tell me if you know of any alternative settings? I misplaced my 1980 hymnal in my move to my new apartment, and am having some difficulty accessing parts of my ebook library due to the process of importing so many new PDFs of Orthodox liturgical texts which just hit the public domain.

I believe the setting in question that I find frustrating is also used in the C of E, but I’m sure I’ve heard a nicer setting at a 1979 liturgy. However the setting I am not thrilled with is the one we normally used at Fr. Steve’s church when I was a member.

Also what would you think of developing an elegant printed version of the 1979 BCP like the Standard Edition by subscription, but in this case as a fundraiser to help the persecuted Anglican Christians in Pakistan?

I have a 1980 hymnal at home, as well as two of the other approved Episcopal hymnals (LEVAS and WLP), so I'd be happy to look up musical settings of the portion of the liturgy you have in mind.

I'm not sure I understand "by subscription", but an elegant 1979 BCP sounds lovely, and I'm glad to support the Church of Pakistan.
(Edit: I've just been reading the "chat thread" where you explain the BCP idea more thoroughly. @Paidiske has some good thoughts there. I assume you have in mind that your book would be primarily bought by Americans, and that it would be a way to send some American funds to the church in Pakistan.)

 

[The Liturgist]

I have a 1980 hymnal at home, as well as two of the other approved Episcopal hymnals (LEVAS and WLP), so I'd be happy to look up musical settings of the portion of the liturgy you have in mind.

I'm not sure I understand "by subscription", but an elegant 1979 BCP sounds lovely, and I'm glad to support the Church of Pakistan.
(Edit: I've just been reading the "chat thread" where you explain the BCP idea more thoroughly. @Paidiske has some good thoughts there. I assume you have in mind that your book would be primarily bought by Americans, and that it would be a way to send some American funds to the church in Pakistan.)

Yes but I also have an idea about how to do her idea, since what she described is very close to the LiturgyWorks modular BCP we completed just over a year ago but haven’t madd generally available yet due to my illness.

 

[Dan Perez]

Rapture event
1 Thess 4:13-18 (describes it has taking saints up in the sky) as does Mat 24:29-33 "from one end of the sky to the other"
And John 14:1-3 seems to say saints at taken to heaven that time.

But in Rev 20 and 21 we see Christ coming to Earth - after the millennium to establish "new heaven and new Earth"

Not sure if people are calling the event in Rev 20 after the 1000 years mentioned there - "the second coming" or not.

Paul is the ONLY one that speaks about the BODY of CHRIST that will take the living one and and the DEAD in Christ ,

verse 16 to be in a MEETING of the Lord into the AIR for a MEETING OF the Lord into the AIR and so we will at ALL

TIME be with the Lord .

By the way there is NO Greek word called RAPTURE in the bible and check VINES GREEK DICTINARY

and STRONGS CONDCORANCE and see !!

dan p

 

[PloverWing]

@PloverWing and my other dearly beloved Episcopalian brethen such as @seeking.IAM @Jipsah and @Deegie if I linked you to a video of an Episcopal liturgy that features the choral setting of those words that I am frustrated with, would you be able to tell me if you know of any alternative settings?

I may not need a link to a video, if that's hard to find. Which liturgical form are you thinking of (e.g., Rite II Prayer B, or Evening Prayer Rite II, etc.)? If you have that much, I can easily enough look up the available musical settings.

 

[Guojing]

If you don't separate Israel from the Body of Christ, then you will not believe in the rapture of the latter.

You will believe everyone will go thru the Great Tribulation, face the antichrist and the mark of the beast.

 

[Michael Snow]

Rapture - definition - 1 Thess 4:13-18, John 14:1-3

literally taking the saints bodily to heaven - both the living and the dead as we see in 1 Thess 4:13-18

Question: How many denominations view 1 Thess 4:13-18 that way?

Lutherans?
Catholic?
Episcopal?
Methodists?
Orthodox?
Others?

Adventists do believe it -- and I think most Evangelicals also teach that sort of literal rapture. Though they have differences in timing with regard to tribulation etc.

The vast majority of the Church rejects "The Rapture" which is "an American obsession" The Rapture Teaching vs. The New Testament

 

[Dan Perez]

Well to be clear, as taught by premillenial dispensationalists and other Restorationists who may or may not be Pentecostal or Charismatic.

If anyone checks the Greek Text , there is NO Greek word called RAPTURE !!

Period !!

dan p

 

[ARBITER01]

Bait.

 

[Dan Perez]

The vast majority of the Church rejects "The Rapture" which is "an American obsession" The Rapture Teaching vs. The New Testament

Only when one has VINE'S or STRONG'S will see that there is NO Greek word called RAPTIRE , PERIOD !!

 

[Michael Snow]

Albert Mohler wrote an excellent piece:

The Scandal of Biblical Illiteracy: It’s Our Problem The Scandal of Biblical Illiteracy: It's Our Problem - AlbertMohler.com​

And that is at the heart of the Rapture delusion. We have a host of memory verse theologians who are unable to read the Bible texts in context. The key "Rapture" verse of these one-word-theologians is in 1 Thessalonians in which the topic is the Parousia, the Second Coming of Christ. Exegesis vs. Eisegesis. Letting God's word speak vs. Reading your own ideas INTO the text. Christians need to read the WHOLE in CONTEXT. The problem is we are literally up against a million dollar marketing budget selling the Left Behind fiction. PLUS Lazy Christians. Just try selling an evangelical commentary by a called teacher of the church. And stats will continue to show that neither side cares to read and be equipped with handling the text in context Both just post their opinions Christ’s Coming: 1 Thessalonians vs. ‘Left Behind’

 

[ViaCrucis]

Rapture - definition - 1 Thess 4:13-18, John 14:1-3

literally taking the saints bodily to heaven - both the living and the dead as we see in 1 Thess 4:13-18

Question: How many denominations view 1 Thess 4:13-18 that way?

Lutherans?
Catholic?
Episcopal?
Methodists?
Orthodox?
Others?

Adventists do believe it -- and I think most Evangelicals also teach that sort of literal rapture. Though they have differences in timing with regard to tribulation etc.

No, Lutheranism does not teach this.

We don't overly dogmaticize this passage and attempt to build new and novel doctrines by way of speculations about this passage. We instead read this passage within the larger theme and message of Scripture concerning our hope of Christ coming again in glory to judge, and the resurrection of the dead. It is enough that we shall be with Christ, and that this mortal shall put on the immortal, this decaying shall put on the incorruptible, and that what was sown in dishonor shall rise in honor. And that at the conclusion of all things, death is dead, life wins, God makes all things new, and ours is the Life Everlasting.

We confess the Faith, we receive the Word, we believe the Word, and we rejoice in the Word. What has been given, we declare; what God has said, we say. It is not our job to be creative little devils with doctrine, but to be faithful hearers, confessors, and doers of the Word.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

The passage looks like it describes the second coming of Jesus Christ, which is tied in with the last judgement in Matthew 25:31-46, but the other words in the passage are not entirely clear to me, so I will not speculate about them. I haven't spent much time researching the passage.

Key to understanding what Paul is talking about (and I say this not as a Lutheran specifically, but simply as someone trying to do good exegesis) is the word Paul frequently employs when talking about Christ's return--parousia. The word means "appearing" or "approach". Christ will come again, He will return, He will appear because we shall see Him, as He returns--in loud glorious language, the hosts of heaven, trumpets, archangels triumphantly crying out and heralding. Here in this passage, the central concern of St. Paul is to remind his readers to not lose hope concerning those who have already died. We already know that there were some false teachers going around claiming Jesus had already returned, so there is clearly some trepidation, some anxiety, among the Thessalonians--Paul wants to squash that, and tell them frankly that there is hope. The resurrection is not going to be some secret thing, and those loved ones, those brothers and sisters who have already died, whether old age, or disease, or even because of persecution--well they're going to rise, that's what resurrection is. We'll know it's the resurrection because, well, the dead will rise. The dead in Christ shall rise, and with them--and this is what happens at Christ's Parousia, His glorious appearance and return--we who are still alive shall also partake of the same glorious event. And we'll all be changed, we all will be transformed ("it is sown a soulish body, it is raised a Spiritual body" "it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in honor" "this mortal must put on immortality" "we shall not all die, but we shall all be transformed, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet" etc from 1 Corinthians 15), and encounter the appearing, returning, glorious Victor, Christ Jesus our Lord. And when this happens, it's not just theatrics, it's not just some display, Jesus is back, Jesus has come, all that God promised is fulfilled, and we shall ever, always be with Christ.

There's nothing about anyone going TO heaven in the passage.

There is a lot about Jesus, and the hosts of heaven, coming FROM heaven though. Jesus is already there, seated in Glory and Majesty, having received Eternal Kingdom and Dominion as King Messiah.

We all, then, are seized up to meet King Jesus making His Triumphant Return, for the Kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ shall crush the kingdoms of this world, and "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever". King Jesus reigns, and His reign in the heavens shall, at long last, be here on earth; so as we have prayed, "Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven" has been fully realized. So, then, as we see in the beautiful and grand vision of St. John of Patmos, as the ancient Prophets long ago also said, there are new heavens and new earth, the old order of things has passed away, and "See! I have made all things new!", God shall be all in all, God and man together, as the Eternal Abode of God is with us, and we with Him. See, that this future City needs no temple, for God and the Lamb is here, neither do we need sun or moon, for the Uncreated Light of His Majesty is here. Heaven and Earth, united. What began in that ancient Garden where God walked with Adam and Eve in the cool of the day, when God declared "It is exceedingly good" shall not only be restored, but made whole, the way it was supposed to be. God and man together, in this Good World which He made, and called us to shepherd, garden, and serve as kings and priests, reflecting the Divine Image. As true worshipers of God, and true Image-bearers of God. This is why the lion eats straw like an ox, the wolf and lamb relax together, and even the child and the viper play together in peace.

All is made well, for Jesus is King, and of His kingdom there is no end.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Well to be clear, as taught by premillenial dispensationalists and other Restorationists who may or may not be Pentecostal or Charismatic.

I may be wrong but I have been told that Pentecostals arose out of Holiness movement churches which in turn arose from Methodism. But it seems to me that many Pentecostals were Dispensationalists in the 1990s. I do not know what they teach about the matters raised by Bob in the OP.

Copilot tells me (answering this question "Is these an official view within Pentecostalism about the rapture?"):

Within Pentecostalism, the belief in the rapture—a future event in which Christians are taken up to heaven—is widely accepted, though views can vary depending on denominations and individual interpretations. Many Pentecostals adhere to a dispensational premillennial understanding of the rapture, which posits that it will occur before a period of tribulation described in the Bible (often referred to as the "pre-tribulation rapture").​

​

This perspective is rooted in a literal interpretation of passages like 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 and Matthew 24:40-41. The rapture is seen as a key part of eschatology (the study of end times), with Pentecostals often emphasising readiness and spiritual devotion as they anticipate this event.​

​

However, it's worth noting that not all Pentecostal groups may fully align on the specifics, and there is some diversity in eschatological views.​

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Copilot answered this question, "Is there an official Catholic doctrine regarding the rapture?" thus:

In Catholic theology, there isn't an official doctrine or widespread belief in the "rapture" as understood in some Protestant circles, especially in dispensational premillennialism. The Catholic Church views the end times primarily through the lens of the Second Coming of Christ, final judgement, and resurrection of the dead, rather than emphasising a separate event where believers are taken up to heaven before a period of tribulation.​

​

This perspective is rooted in passages like 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, which Catholics interpret in the broader context of Christ's return rather than a distinct rapture event. The Church's eschatology tends to focus on the unity of all believers and the ultimate fulfilment of God's kingdom, rather than a division between those taken up and those left behind.​

And I think that Copilot's summary is fairly accurate.