Trump EO eliminates Birthright Citizenship; 18 states and civil rights organizations sue to stop implementation, pointing to the 14th Amendment

[Goonie]

so you are saying Trump will have concentation camps?

It is an emotive word for the detention camps Trump will be building. But for those with no country to go to, that is what they will be.

 

[dogs4thewin]

It is an emotive word for the detention camps Trump will be building. But for those with no country to go to, that is what they will be.

and we will be paying for that. It seems that some contries will not take their people back.

 

[Pommer]

Okay…let’s move this discussion along:

Let’s say Juan and Maria come to our shores legally, (they’ve waited for their turn and move close by their citizen/sponsors in, say, Dubuque Iowa.
Three years into their residency their get their “green cards”, and Maria becomes pregnant and out pops Juan Jr; is Juan Jr a citizen of our nation?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Okay…let’s move this discussion along:

Let’s say Juan and Maria come to our shores legally, (they’ve waited for their turn and move close by their citizen/sponsors in, say, Dubuque Iowa.
Three years into their residency their get their “green cards”, and Maria becomes pregnant and out pops Juan Jr; is Juan Jr a citizen of our nation?

I would think so as the parents would have been here legally,. If not, then the children would proabably be citizens of wherever the parents were from, and if the parents ( at least one of them) decided to become a cititzen the kids would become citizens at that point just as they would be if the parent or parents wee citizens at the time of their birth.

 

[QvQ]

Can you quote any court cases to back up these assertions?

There were legal issues during McCain's presidential campaign.
The Courts were redefining "Jurisdiction" at that time.
The issue will be resolved in the Courts or by a Constitutional Amendment.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If they were born to people who were not here legally at the time of their birth.

No, they will in most cases be citizens of the country their parent(s) came from. A few won't be citizens of any country.

Thanks.

 

[essentialsaltes]

There were legal issues during McCain's presidential campaign.

There may have been 'legal issues', but there was no lawsuit.

 

[QvQ]

There may have been 'legal issues', but there was no lawsuit.

It is time for a law suit.
This isn't 1890's.
This is 2025 and anyone can fly in to have their baby and that baby goes home with dual citizenship. Or stay and collect all the benefits.
It is a problem and needs either Court action or Legislative action
Trump is merely taking the first steps to make the issue a Federal Case

 

[BCP1928]

There may have been 'legal issues', but there was no lawsuit.

It was just an attempt to discredit his candidacy. He was born in Panama to US citizen parents The same thing happened to Goldwater, who some claimed not to be a natural born citizen because he was born in Arizona Territory before it was a state.

 

[wing2000]

The issue will be resolved in the Courts or by a Constitutional Amendment.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Illegal immigrants are subject to jurisdiction thereof....otherwise, the state could not, for example, prosecute an illegal immigrant for stealing. What is there to be resolved?

The 14th Amendment is clear. If people don't like it, a Consitutional Ammendment will be needed.

 

[QvQ]

The 14th Amendment is clear. If people don't like it, a Consitutional Ammendment will be needed.

It will be intesting what the Court decides.
However, a Constitutional Amendment is the second and most lilkely option
People have been concerned about this issue for some time. Citizenship is a fuzzy concept in the US. That needs clarification.

 

[BCP1928]

It is time for a law suit.
This isn't 1890's.
This is 2024 and anyone can fly in to have their baby and that baby goes home with dual citizenship. Or stay and collect all the benefits.
It is a problem and needs either Court action or Legislative action
Trump is merely taking the first steps to making the issue a Federal Case

Down where I recently iived in New Mexico is the little border town of Columbus, way out in the middle of nowhere. Just on the other side of the border is the little Mexican town of Puerto Palomas, also out in the middle of nowhere. For some time there was a maternity clinic in Columbus but none in Puerto Palomas, so women would cross over and have their babies in Columbus. There is a maternity clinic in Puerto Palomas now, so it doesn't happen any more, but there are still a few US citizen kids living with their Mexican families in Pueurto Palomas, and every morning the Luna County school bus stops at the gate and picks up the kids so they can go to school in the US and drops them off in the afternoon so they can walk across the border and go home again.

How horrible. How can we tolerate an attack on the purity of our cultural heritage like that?

 

[Bradskii]

Are you some type of authority? Are you an attorney? Why should I believe you over any one else on this anonymous discussion site?

What makes you think I want or need your help?

You don't need any help from me to investigate the rules and conditions whereby an immigrant is or is not allowed to stay in the US. But as you thought that none applies and you could just deport them with no due process, I thought I'd help out.

You're welcome.

 

[Always in His Presence]

that is what I am saying I believe that at this point if someone has been here for years and their only crime is being here illegally (

Which they should not have done and are subject to the laws that pertain to their illegal activity.

 

[Always in His Presence]

It is an emotive word for the detention camps Trump will be building. But for those with no country to go to, that is what they will be.

We have a forum for conspiracy theories

 

[Bradskii]

Down where I recently iived in New Mexico is the little border town of Columbus, way out in the middle of nowhere. Just on the other side of the border is the little Mexican town of Puerto Palomas, also out in the middle of nowhere. For some time there was a maternity clinic in Columbus but none in Puerto Palomas, so women would cross over and have their babies in Columbus. There is a maternity clinic in Puerto Palomas now, so it doesn't happen any more, but there are still a few US citizen kids living with their Mexican families in Pueurto Palomas, and every morning the Luna County school bus stops at the gate and picks up the kids so they can go to school in the US and drops them off in the afternoon so they can walk across the border and go home again.

How horrible. How can we tolerate an attack on the purity of our cultural heritage like that?

And one of those kids could be sitting behind the Resolute Desk one day. Que bueno.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Which they should not have done and are subject to the laws that pertain to their illegal activity.

Here is the deal if they have been productive members of soceity and are willing to presue a path to citizenship it is notworth the time,, money OR damage to the economy to deport them.

 

[QvQ]

but there are still a few US citizen kids living with their Mexican families in Pueurto Palomas, and every morning the Luna County school bus stops at the gate and picks up the kids so they can go to school in the US and drops them off in the afternoon so they can walk across the border and go home again.

Who pays for the pregnancy clinic and the schools?
This is a mess and hopefully it will get straightened out.

Trump has taken the first steps to clarifying this issue.
Right now for a few billion dollars, the Russians could fly every pregnant Russian into the US, have a US duel citizenship baby who could vote in 18 years. This is a mess.
IT is unfair, even to the siblings of those American born childen who can't go to school on the American side every morning.
Look at the larger picture.
I live on the border btw

 

[Bradskii]

Right now for a few billion dollars, the Russians could fly every pregnant Russian into the US, have a US duel citizenship baby who could vote in 18 years.

There are these things called 'visas' /ˈviːzə/.

You have to apply for one from US officials in your home country if you want to fly into the US because if you haven't got one they'll immediately send you home. In fact, you often aren't allowed to board the flight in the first place if you haven't got one. I've applied twice and there are lots of hoops you have to jump through before they stamp the paperwork.

There were 1,289 visas issued to Russians in 2023. https://travel.state.gov/content/da...orts/FY2023AnnualReport/FY2023_AR_TableIV.pdf

There were about 1.3 million babies born in Russia in the same year. Number of live births in Russia 2023 | Statista

I think that if there was a thousandfold increase in visa applications then someone might notice.

Yeah, I know you probably weren't serious, but I'm waiting for the rain to stop to clear some wood in the garden, so I had a few minutes to spare. Now we know a little more about the Russian birthrate and visa applications than we did a few minutes ago. It's surprising how much esoteric information you learn hanging around this forum...

 

[QvQ]

You have to apply for one from US officials in your home country if you want to fly into the US because if you haven't got one they'll immediately send you home. In fact, you often aren't allowed to board the flight in the first place if you haven't got one. I've applied twice and there are lots of hoops you have to jump through before they stamp the paperwork.

The baby born in the US is still a US citizen, mother's visa notwithstanding.
Instead of Russia, look the Chinese.

Yes, one interesting fact I discovered doing research on this topic was Congress changed the citizenship status of the Indians.
That means that Congress can use legislative instruments to define citizenship
May not even need a Constitutional Amendment.

And Subject to the Jurisdiction in the case of American Indians was not whether they could be arrested for crimes on or off the reservation but whether they were or could be made to pay taxes.