Did God forget Luke 14:28-32?

[Jeff Saunders]

Scripture says in 1Tim 2:3-6 that Gods will is that all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. And in Rom 12:21 Paul says “ Do not be vanquished by evil, but vanquish evil with good. Then in Luke 14:28-32 God said to count the cost beforehand so you can make sure to complete the task. If ECT is correct and Gods desire and will is for all to be saved and if he is following scripture himself and vanquished evil with good, then what happened? Did God forget to read Luke 14 :28-32 before he created this cosmos? Because most people on this forum seem to think that God will conquer evil with more evil and God will only get a small percentage of what he wants, so maybe he started something he can’t finish?

 

[Aaron112]

UR is devastationgly evil and is associated with souls lost forever, not repenting.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Scripture says in 1Tim 2:3-6 that Gods will is that all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. And in Rom 12:21 Paul says “ Do not be vanquished by evil, but vanquish evil with good. Then in Luke 14:28-32 God said to count the cost beforehand so you can make sure to complete the task. If ECT is correct and Gods desire and will is for all to be saved and if he is following scripture himself and vanquished evil with good, then what happened? Did God forget to read Luke 14 :28-32 before he created this cosmos? Because most people on this forum seem to think that God will conquer evil with more evil and God will only get a small percentage of what he wants, so maybe he started something he can’t finish?

It’s God’s will that all men are saved and come to the knowledge of truth…..but God will not force anything, He loves us so much He allows us to either believe in Him and come to the truth, or reject Him and stay in darkness (sin). Sadly, many choose darkness over what Jesus offers.

This is what happened

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 Foreveryone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have beendone in God.”

 

[Mark Quayle]

Scripture says in 1Tim 2:3-6 that Gods will is that all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. And in Rom 12:21 Paul says “ Do not be vanquished by evil, but vanquish evil with good. Then in Luke 14:28-32 God said to count the cost beforehand so you can make sure to complete the task. If ECT is correct and Gods desire and will is for all to be saved and if he is following scripture himself and vanquished evil with good, then what happened? Did God forget to read Luke 14 :28-32 before he created this cosmos? Because most people on this forum seem to think that God will conquer evil with more evil and God will only get a small percentage of what he wants, so maybe he started something he can’t finish?

Have you studied the several different views of 1 Tim 2:1-7, and in particular, vs 4 ?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

UR is devastationgly evil and is associated with souls lost forever, not repenting.

Only if you believe the tradition that you can only accept Jesus while in the mortal body, which is not in scripture. God has all eternity to find his lost sheep and he doesn’t quite till all are found.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

It’s God’s will that all men are saved and come to the knowledge of truth…..but God will not force anything, He loves us so much He allows us to either believe in Him and come to the truth, or reject Him and stay in darkness (sin). Sadly, many choose darkness over what Jesus offers.

This is what happened

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 Foreveryone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have beendone in God.”

So you’re saying that God did not count the cost of his creation and he created beings that had a stronger will than his will? Because Rom 5:20 says that where sin abounds grace abounds all the more - but you believe that where sin abounds grace is a little effective because man’s will is greater than Gods?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Have you studied the several different views of 1 Tim 2:1-7, and in particular, vs 4 ?

What views are you talking about ? The only one I know of is the one that says God is in conflict with himself and has two wills that are at odds with each other, that’s the only one I know of.

 

[Mark Quayle]

What views are you talking about ? The only one I know of is the one that says God is in conflict with himself and has two wills that are at odds with each other, that’s the only one I know of.

Then look it up. You need to logically defeat every one except yours.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So you’re saying that God did not count the cost of his creation and he created beings that had a stronger will than his will? Because Rom 5:20 says that where sin abounds grace abounds all the more - but you believe that where sin abounds grace is a little effective because man’s will is greater than Gods?

God gives man free will from the beginning and never takes that away, otherwise He would have made us all robots, which is not love. There is no scripture that says everyone will be saved, in fact it says most choose another path. God’s will is that everyone would believe in Him and come to His Truth, and would be saved, but He allows man not to choose this option. God never lets go of us, we let go of Him through our decision Rom 6:16

God knowing all things could have just scrapped earth, but didn’t because many choose God and He loves us so much, He would have died for just one of us. He died for all of us, but not everyone chooses Him. Grace never gave anyone a license to sin Rom 6:1-4 our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21, we are not saved in sin Heb 10:26-30 but He doesn’t make us obey on our own, but it requires our cooperation and love John 14:15-18

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Scripture says in 1Tim 2:3-6 that Gods will is that all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. And in Rom 12:21 Paul says “ Do not be vanquished by evil, but vanquish evil with good. Then in Luke 14:28-32 God said to count the cost beforehand so you can make sure to complete the task. If ECT is correct and Gods desire and will is for all to be saved and if he is following scripture himself and vanquished evil with good, then what happened? Did God forget to read Luke 14 :28-32 before he created this cosmos? Because most people on this forum seem to think that God will conquer evil with more evil and God will only get a small percentage of what he wants, so maybe he started something he can’t finish?

Technically, we can't know how it ends, that's God's domain. This is why there is a variety of theories surrounding the subject that cause confusion and division.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

It’s God’s will that all men are saved and come to the knowledge of truth…..but God will not force anything, He loves us so much He allows us to either believe in Him and come to the truth, or reject Him and stay in darkness (sin). Sadly, many choose darkness over what Jesus offers.

This is what happened

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 Foreveryone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have beendone in God.”

You are correct that God does not force anyone but he does not have to because we were created to worship him that’s our default setting. The problem is that most people never get a chance to experience God in a real way , they either never hear of him or they see what religion says and they reject the false god of religion. I have seen people on YouTube talk about how they reject a god who will ask his people to love their enemies and he he torches his forever , and they can’t live a god who would do that. Two word pictures that help 1 - God is like the grand master chess player and if we played 1000000 games he would always win , even when we have complete free will to move any piece without his coercion, he will always win . 2 - we are like a fish that has hundreds of bowls in front of it and it can choose only one bowl and live, some have dirt others rocks or sand maybe broken glass but only one has clean water, the fish if given free will and knowledge of each bowl will choose the water even time , why because it’s created for water just like we were created to worship God. So no God doesn’t need to force anyone, once the sin is stripped away and we see God for who he is we will choose him every time and we are smarter than a fish. I still don’t understand why so many people think God didn’t know what he was doing when he created this world, they act like sin and evil are stronger than God and now he is trying to save at least a little of his creation because most of it will be lost and now he has to keep people alive forever and torture them forever.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Technically, we can't know how it ends, that's God's domain. This is why there is a variety of theories surrounding the subject that cause confusion and division.

Have you not read 1Cor 15:21-28 ? God himself says that he will be all in all at the end. So yes we can know what the end will look like , we just don’t know how long that will take or how he is going to get it done but it will happen.

 

[St_Worm2]

What views are you talking about ? The only one I know of is the one that says God is in conflict with himself and has two wills that are at odds with each other, that’s the only one I know of.

Hello Jeff, if a person who LOVES banana splits needs to lose weight, then they have a decision to make, don't they?

So it is with God, who, on the one hand, takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and desires that all men would be saved, but on the other, refuses to force us to do what He wants us to do, because He wants us to be free to make our own choices (and e.g., free to love Him/to love each other, as a result).

He could certainly force everyone to stop sinning, but that would mean a world of robots who have no free will. This is clearly unacceptable to Him, because a world of robots would also mean a world w/o love. So, like the person who needs to choose between a banana split and the scale, God has to make tough choices too, and PTL, "love" won

Here's a very short article that should be helpful because it speaks to all of this.

~What is the difference between God’s sovereign will and God’s revealed will? | GotQuestions.org​

​

And in Rom 12:21 Paul says “ Do not be vanquished by evil, but vanquish evil with good. Then in Luke 14:28-32 God said to count the cost beforehand so you can make sure to complete the task. If ECT is correct and Gods desire and will is for all to be saved and if he is following scripture himself and vanquished evil with good, then what happened? Did God forget to read Luke 14 :28-32 before he created this cosmos? Because most people on this forum seem to think that God will conquer evil with more evil and God will only get a small percentage of what he wants, so maybe he started something he can’t finish?

These questions (from your OP) are also answered in the article above.

God bless you!!

--David

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Then look it up. You need to logically defeat every one except yours.

Are you thinking about the idea that it’s Gods desire in vs 4 which some say is different than his will ? If so that’s ok because Ps 115:3 “ Our God is in the heavens all that he desires he does “ I take that as he gets all he desires. Ps 86:10 “ all my desires shall I do” Or how about this one Is 46:11 “ Indeed, I have spoken, Indeed I shall bring it to pass! I have formed the plan indeed, I shall do it.” I think God gets what he desires in the end but we are still in the process of getting there.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Hello Jeff, if a person who LOVES banana splits needs to lose weight, then they have a decision to make, don't they?

So it is with God, who, on the one hand, takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked and desires that all men would be saved, but on the other, refuses to force us to do what He wants us to do, because He wants us to be free to make our own choices (and e.g., free to love Him/to love each other, as a result).

He could certainly force everyone to stop sinning, but that would mean a world of robots who have no free will. This is clearly unacceptable to Him, because a world of robots would also mean a world w/o love. So, like the person who needs to choose between a banana split and the scale, God has to make tough choices too, and PTL, "love" won

Here's a very short article that should be helpful because it speaks to all of this.

~What is the difference between God’s sovereign will and God’s revealed will? | GotQuestions.org​

​

These questions (from your OP) are also answered in the article above.

God bless you!!

--David

I have seen the whole two wills of God but I do not believe that it’s true . I think it’s just a Calvinist way to get around the plain meaning of scripture , just like the all doesn’t mean all it means all kinds of people, it’s their way of trying to get around plain textual meaning of scripture. Every camp has scriptures that they don’t understand or seems to be contradictory but for me Christian Universal Redemption has the least passages that I don’t understand, when I was in the Augustine tradition there were a lot more scriptures that didn’t seem to fit together.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Have you not read 1Cor 15:21-28 ? God himself says that he will be all in all at the end. So yes we can know what the end will look like , we just don’t know how long that will take or how he is going to get it done but it will happen.

When the perfect comes, the partial passes away. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I set aside childish ways. Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love; but the greatest of these is love. (1 Corinthians 13:10-13)

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
(1 John 3:2)

Nope, we're still like children and don't know Jack.

 

[Clare73]

Scripture says in 1Tim 2:3-6 that Gods will is that all men to be saved,

Read it again. . .

and come to the knowledge of the truth. And in Rom 12:21 Paul says “ Do not be vanquished by evil, but vanquish evil with good. Then in Luke 14:28-32 God said to count the cost beforehand so you can make sure to complete the task. If ECT is correct and Gods desire and will is for all to be saved and if he is following scripture himself and vanquished evil with good, then what happened? Did God forget to read Luke 14 :28-32 before he created this cosmos? Because most people on this forum seem to think that God will conquer evil with more evil and God will only get a small percentage of what he wants, so maybe he started something he can’t finish?

 

[Clare73]

Only if you believe the tradition that you can only accept Jesus while in the mortal body, which is not in scripture. God has all eternity to find his lost sheep and he doesn’t quite till all are found.

Is God's arm too short to find them all while their spirits are still united to their physical bodies?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Is God's arm too short to find them all while their spirits are still united to their physical bodies?

Jer 32:27 “ I am Yahweh, God of all flesh, is anything to difficult for me?” Or Is 46:11 “Indeed, I have spoken, Indeed I shall bring it to pass! I have formed the plan Indeed, I shall do it.” Finding all while in the mortal body will not happen in this age , but God has all the time he wants he is not bound by time as we are. Some find that narrow path now most stay on the road in destruction and do not find the path till the next age. I know tradition says you can only accept Jesus in the mortal body but that is found no place in all of scripture, it’s man made or demonic influence to make God look like a monster. Ask yourself this - what part of you accepted Jesus, your moral body? No it will die . It is our spirit that accepts Jesus and then we are given the Holy Spirit as a deposit. So if our mortal body is not what accepts Jesus why can’t we accept him after our mortal body is dead? Is Gods arm too short to reach that far?

 

[Clare73]

Jer 32:27 “ I am Yahweh, God of all flesh, is anything to difficult for me?” Or Is 46:11 “Indeed, I have spoken, Indeed I shall bring it to pass! I have formed the plan Indeed, I shall do it.” Finding all while in the mortal body will not happen in this age ,

Biblical demonstration?