Earth created, then universe, then stretched so light was here all along

[truthpls]

There is no "Let there be rocks" in all of Gen 1.

There is the earth, and that has rocks. Lots of them.

There is no "let water come into being" there is no "let water cover the rocks on Earth" etc in Gen 1 or 2.

Yes water was part of the earth and it was later separated. He spoke and it was so.

But if someone wants to infer that just before the statement "let there be light" there was another statement

The deep was already mentioned so we know earth was here. No inferring needed

"let there be water" or "let there be rocks as the surface of the deep" etc - I am not objecting. I just note that such an assumption is not actually in the text.

Yes, if we know that water existed and earth existed and God separated them, then we know there was rocks and water.

 

[Job 33:6]

There is the earth, and that has rocks. Lots of them.

There's a difference between God creating the earth ex nihilo, and it already being there before God began creating it ex materia.

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

 

[truthpls]

There's a difference between God creating the earth ex nihilo, and it already being there before God began creating it ex materia.

Yes there is a difference. He spoke and it was so.

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Yes the earth was here before the sun and stars. Even the earth after God made dry land appear and made plants was here before the stars

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes there is a difference. He spoke and it was so.

Yes, he spoke...in verse 3.

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Not in verse 1. "God Said". Let there be light.

God never says "let there be earth" or "let there be rocks" etc. rather, it was simply there before God created it ex materia.

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes the earth was here before the sun and stars. Even the earth after God made dry land appear and made plants was here before the stars

I'll just repeat:

There's a difference between God creating the earth ex nihilo, and it already being there before God began creating it ex materia.

 

[truthpls]

Yes, he spoke...in verse 3.

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Not in verse 1. "God Said". Let there be light.

God never says "let there be earth" or "let there be rocks" etc. rather, it was simply there before God created it ex materia.

The earth was dark, obviously as was the deep on earth before God created light.

 

[truthpls]

I'll just repeat:

There's a difference between God creating the earth ex nihilo, and it already being there before God began creating it ex materia.

He created the earth from nothing. The heavens as well.

 

[d taylor]

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Creating the earth from nothing is Genesis 1:1 only, Genesis 1:3 to 1:26 is the restoration of the creation in 1:1

 

[Job 33:6]

He created the earth from nothing. The heavens as well.

That's what the new testament authors tell us. However, the old testament is not about ex nihilo creation.

It's similar to Psalm 68 and Ephesians 4. They tell different stories.

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

 

[truthpls]

That's what the new testament authors tell us. However, the old testament is not about ex nihilo creation.

If the new testament cleared it up, great. It was already clear to me.

It's similar to Psalm 68 and Ephesians 4. They tell different stories.

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

The heavens also were empty. No stars. There were 6 days of creation. The earth was here before the stars. Dark at first and without real form

 

[Vambram]

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Creating the earth from nothing is Genesis 1:1 only, Genesis 1:3 to 1:26 is the restoration of the creation in 1:1

To me, this sounds like you believe in "The Gap Theory". Is that correct?

 

[Job 33:6]

If the new testament cleared it up, great. It was already clear to me.

Ephesians 4:8 ESV
[8] Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”

Psalm 68:18 ESV
[18] You ascended on high, leading a host of captives in your train and receiving gifts among men, even among the rebellious, that the Lord God may dwell there.

New testament revelation does not change what the old testament says. They often talk about different things. And this is a pretty straightforward example.

 

[Job 33:6]

The heavens also were empty. No stars. There were 6 days of creation. The earth was here before the stars. Dark at first and without real form

You're not engaging with, and thinking critically about ancient Israelite cosmology in Genesis.

 

[d taylor]

To me, this sounds like you believe in "The Gap Theory". Is that correct?

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Well that depends on how you are using the gap theory. If you are using as many do. To say that there was another world before God created where dinosaurs and other people lived, etc.. No i do not believe in that theory, but if it is to say that the earth created in Genesis 1:1 was to home to satan and the angelic host before the fall. Yes i do believe in this.

 

[Job 33:6]

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Well that depends on how you are using the gap theory. If you are using as many do. To say that there was another world before God created where dinosaurs and other people lived, etc.. No i do not believe in that theory, but if it is to say that the earth created in Genesis 1:1 was to home to satan and the angelic host before the fall. Yes i do believe in this.

This is a lot closer to the ancient near east context. However, it's not quite there, given that Genesis never says anything about God creating the earth, then it becoming deformed by Satan, then God restoring it. (If that's what you're saying).

Rather, it was simply formless from the start. And God took the formless earth, and over 6 days, God created it by giving it form. Ex materia.

 

[d taylor]

This is a lot closer to the ancient near east context. However, it's not quite there, given that Genesis never says anything about God creating the earth, then it becoming deformed by Satan, then God restoring it.

Rather, it was simply formless from the start. And God took the formless earth, and over 6 days, God created it by giving it form. Ex materia.

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Genesis does not address this as it is concerned with the creation that will be for the human's God's creates. But Ezekiel does somewhat address this.

You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

“You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

I believe after satans fall that earth was judged and flooded and the lights were cut out.

 

[Job 33:6]

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​

Genesis does not address this as it is concerned with the creation that will be for the human's God's creates. But Ezekiel does somewhat address this.

You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

“You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

I believe after satans fall that earth was judged and flooded and the lights were cut out.

I enjoy this concept. Though, there's still this critical issue that, what you're describing, isn't actually in Genesis.

If it said "in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" , "then there was the fall" "and then God said, let there be light"

Then it would be a simple call to make.

But as it is, Genesis simply says that God created, and that's it.

And so it is, actually in many ancient near east creation stories, heaven and earth start out formless. Then God steps in and creates it. And after 6 days of creating it, it is then no longer formless.

Like taking a formless piece of clay and over 6 days molding it into a beautiful vase.

You see? Then there is no need to insert ideas about Satan destroying creation or anything like that wedged in between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

 

[Job 33:6]

-
​

Genesis does not address this as it is concerned with the creation that will be for the human's God's creates. But Ezekiel does somewhat address this.

You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

“You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

I believe after satans fall that earth was judged and flooded and the lights were cut out.

Example, here is Enuma Elish:

1:1 When on high heaven was not named, and the earth, beneath a name did not bear –

1:2. primeval Apsu [fresh water] was their progenitor, life-giving Tiamat [salt water], the bearer of all; their waters together they mingled, no canebrake yet formed, no marsh discoverable – when of the gods none had appeared, names were not borne, destinies not decided,

1:3. the gods were given shape within them, Lah̬mu and Lah̬amu made to appear, names they bore.

Consider this text in comparison to Genesis 1:1. And you'll see, it's just the way that ancient texts begin. They begin with formless material, then God steps in and makes them.

Or here is another, Genesis 2:

4 When the Lord God made earth and heaven—

5 Now no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no herb of the field had yet to grow, since the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth and there was no man to work the ground 6 (but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground)—

7 The Lord God formed man from dust of the ground….


You see, it's the same style of introduction. And there are more. But they commonly begin with an introduction. Followed by a statement that describes pre existing conditions, and then they follow with God begining creation in the 3rd part.

 

[Job 33:6]

Or, here is Kar 4:

1:1 When heaven had been separated from the earth, the distant trusty twin,

1:2 (And) the mother of the goddesses had been brought into being; When the earth had been brought forth (and) the earth had been fashioned; When the destinies of heaven and earth had been fixed; (When) trench and canal had been given (their) right courses, (And) the banks of the Tigris and Euphrates had been established

1:3 (Then) Anu, Enlil, Šamaš, (and) Ea, the great gods, (And) the Anunnaki, the great gods, Seated themselves in the exalted sanctuary and recounted among themselves what had been created.[125]

Notice the parallel here between the great gods seating themselves, and God's rest in Genesis.

But again, we see verse 1 as an introduction. Verse 2 describes pre existing conditions. Verse 3 involves action or creation or a main event.

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth,

[2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

[3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

Same style. Intro. Conditions. Main event.

@David Lamb you should see these two if you haven't. In this post and the last.

 

[Job 33:6]

If you notice that this is actually a normal way that people began creation stories in their historical context. It becomes much easier to understand Genesis.