Average consumer now carries $6,329 in credit card debt. 'People are stretched,' expert says

[iluvatar5150]

According to your graph, I am seeing credit card debt, other debt, and auto loan debt at higher levels under Biden than it was under Trump.

Now look at Trump's numbers pre-covid. Auto loans now are lower than his pre-covid numbers, with credit card and "other" only recently surpassing the pre-covid numbers. All were growing prior to covid: credit cards since about Q1 2016, "other" since about mid-2017, and auto loans since about mid-2015. Basically, we're catching up to where we would've been without covid.

Student loan debt is way down because Biden defied the SCOTUS and had the federal government pay off a lot of that debt.

Fine, ignore that one. Housing-backed loans haven't budged.

 

[Vambram]

Fine, ignore that one. Housing-backed loans haven't budged.

That is probably, in my opinion, because too many people cannot afford the loans to buy a house.

 

[iluvatar5150]

That is probably, in my opinion, because too many people cannot afford the loans to buy a house.

They couldn't afford them in 2008, either.

 

[Vambram]

They couldn't afford them in 2008, either.

What is the common factor for both 2008 and the last few years?

 

[iluvatar5150]

What is the common factor for both 2008 and the last few years?

They all start with a '2'?

 

[KCfromNC]

During the last few years, real wages have decreased compared to inflation.

Wouldn't a more fair comparison be nominal wages vs. inflation? Adjusting wages to inflation then comparing them again against inflation would be misleading.
For example, such a comparison : Average wages have surpassed inflation for 12 straight months

 

[Vambram]

Wouldn't a more fair comparison be nominal wages vs. inflation? Adjusting wages to inflation then comparing them again against inflation would be misleading.
For example, such a comparison : Average wages have surpassed inflation for 12 straight months

That is a fair and legitimate point which I will concede to you. However, those statistics don't show whether or not real wages and average wages have surpassed the cumulative amount of inflation in the USA since January of 2021.

 

[iluvatar5150]

That is a fair and legitimate point which I will concede to you. However, those statistics don't show whether or not real wages and average wages have surpassed the cumulative amount of inflation in the USA since January of 2021.

This chart does:

Employed full time: Median usual weekly real earnings: Wage and salary workers: 16 years and over

Graph and download economic data for Employed full time: Median usual weekly real earnings: Wage and salary workers: 16 years and over (LES1252881600Q) from Q1 1979 to Q2 2025 about full-time, salaries, workers, earnings, 16 years +, wages, median, employment, real, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

However, one big problem with using this chart and Jan 2021 as your benchmark is that this chart only accounts for people who are working full-time, and Jan 2021 was a period of high unemployment in which low-wage service workers were hit the hardest. Removing a bunch of low-wage workers from the tabulation pushed the median quite a bit higher. To use Jan 2021 as a benchmark, you'd have to dig into the raw data and run the analysis yourself. But if you use 2019 as a benchmark, it clearly shows that median wages have outpaced inflation, albeit slightly.

 

[Aaron112]

America used to have a strong economy; because we were the world's greatest exporter; because we made the best products in the world.

"Americans" , (wasps?), decades ago, used to work honest, steady, even eager, doing a good day's work for a dollar or two.
Some , today, are never out of debt. Never working enough even for food and clothes, let alone room and board (rent/ mortgage) ....
The system, right, left, and middle, has been driving, driving, driving, D E B T (personal), higher and higher an higher inflated artificially cost of living and other expenses, especially fraud medical.
So what is a person to do to escape the entrapments of society today ?

 

[Aaron112]

That is a fair and legitimate point which I will concede to you. However, those statistics don't show whether or not real wages and average wages have surpassed the cumulative amount of inflation in the USA since January of 2021.

Fair? Where!? For compariso - about 1980 consumer reports investigation/documentary long forgotten, the minimum wager for baggers (grocery store workers)
would have been , already in 1980,
$22.00 per hour...... without strain. IF the companies had kept up with the profits they made.

 

[HARK!]

"Americans" , (wasps?), decades ago, used to work honest, steady, even eager, doing a good day's work for a dollar or two.

And a dollar or two would support a higher standards of living back then. The Bigs have been stealing our money through fiat currency inflation.

So what is a person to do to escape the entrapments of society today ?

There are many entrapments of society today; and escaping each of them requires different techniques.

One technique for hedging inflation is to trade relatively worthless fiat currency for real money, gold and silver. The central banks are doing it right now; and so are the BRICS nations. I suspect that they see the writing on the wall.

 

[iluvatar5150]

And a dollar or two would support a higher standards of living back then. The Bigs have been stealing our money through fiat currency inflation.

There are many entrapments of society today; and escaping each of them requires different techniques.

One technique for hedging inflation is to trade relatively worthless fiat currency for real money, gold and silver. The central banks are doing it right now; and so are the BRICS nations. I suspect that they see the writing on the wall.

lol, this hyperlibertarian perspective on money is so disconnected from reality, it's hard to believe it still exists.

Gold and silver are no more "real money" than anything else. "Real money" is whatever a group of people collectively decide has value. Fiat currency is so "relatively worthless " that you can use it to buy literally anything. Relative to precious metals, the value of the "worthless" dollar has remained FAR more consistent over time.

If anybody doubts me, go look at a chart of gold and silver prices over the last 30 years and compare it to a chart of the dollar index. It's not even close.

 

[HARK!]

lol, this hyperlibertarian

What's so funny about liberty?

Gold and silver are no more "real money" than anything else.

SECTION. 10. No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;

Fiat currency is so "relatively worthless " that you can use it to buy literally anything. Relative to precious metals, the value of the "worthless" dollar has remained FAR more consistent over time.

The vast majority of the gold found in the world, was found approximately 5000 years ago. It has been used for money ever since. What was found in the California gold rush was a drop in the bucket was a drop in the bucket compared to what had already been found. As the amount of found gold in the world remains a relative constant; it can be used as a fair weight and measure, compared to fiat currency. which can be printed at will, akin to the butcher placing his thumb on the scale.

This is one of the numerous chats out there demonstrating in the historic correlation between fiat currency and gold:

As gold remains a relative constant; the value of gold did not increase. The value of the dollar decreased; so it takes more inflated dollars to buy the same amount of gold.

Back in 1900, a silver dollar would buy you a steak dinner. Today, that same silver dollar will still buy you a steak dinner.

Silver Price Today | Price of Silver Per Ounce | 24 Hour Spot Chart | KITCO

Live Silver Charts and Silver Spot Price from International Silver Markets, Prices from New York, London, Hong Kong and Sydney provided by Kitco.

www.kitco.com

What can you buy with your devalued fiat dollar? You might have trouble finding a deal on a pack of after dinner mints.

 

[wing2000]

...another reason folks can't afford to buy a house or pay off their credit card debt -they overspend on expensive cars:

The number of new-vehicle buyers with payments of $1,000 or more is at an all-time high, according to Edmunds.com, a car-shopping website.

In its fourth-quarter report, Edmunds found they represented 18.9 percent — or nearly 1 in 5 — of such borrowers. This share has been steadily increasing; it was 17.4 percent during the preceding three-month period.

Consumers are taking out larger loans than ever before. The average amount borrowed for the fourth quarter was $42,113, compared with $40,713 for the previous quarter and $39,977 year-over-year.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/01/08/1000-auto-loan-car-payment-new-record/

 

[HARK!]

...another reason folks can't afford to buy a house or pay off their credit card debt -they overspend on expensive cars:

The number of new-vehicle buyers with payments of $1,000 or more is at an all-time high, according to Edmunds.com, a car-shopping website.

In its fourth-quarter report, Edmunds found they represented 18.9 percent — or nearly 1 in 5 — of such borrowers. This share has been steadily increasing; it was 17.4 percent during the preceding three-month period.

Consumers are taking out larger loans than ever before. The average amount borrowed for the fourth quarter was $42,113, compared with $40,713 for the previous quarter and $39,977 year-over-year.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/01/08/1000-auto-loan-car-payment-new-record/

More and more working Americans are living in their cars.

What's wrong with today's Americans, that they expect to be able to afford both a house, AND reliable transportation?

 

[iluvatar5150]

What's so funny about liberty?

Deception is not liberty.

SECTION. 10. No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;

That section limits what states can do. It does not define what money is.

The vast majority of the gold found in the world, was found approximately 5000 years ago. It has been used for money ever since. What was found in the California gold rush was a drop in the bucket was a drop in the bucket compared to what had already been found. As the amount of found gold in the world remains a relative constant; it can be used as a fair weight and measure, compared to fiat currency. which can be printed at will, akin to the butcher placing his thumb on the scale.

That isn't remotely correct.

200 Years of Global Gold Production, by Country

Global gold production has grown exponentially since the 1800s, with 86% of all above-ground gold mined in the last 200 years.

www.visualcapitalist.com

Gold mining - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gold Production Over the Past and Next 25 Years | Alchemist

www.lbma.org.uk

86% of the world's gold has been mined in the last 200 years and annual production keeps trending upward.

The argument that most of the world's gold is 5,000 years old is just ludicrous on its face - how on earth would prehistoric man be able to mine more gold than modern mechanized industry?

This is one of the numerous chats out there demonstrating in the historic correlation between fiat currency and gold:

View attachment 359599

As gold remains a relative constant; the value of gold did not increase. The value of the dollar decreased; so it takes more inflated dollars to buy the same amount of gold.

lol, no. That's not how any of that works. Yes, the money supply may have increased, but the purchasing power of those dollars did not decrease by anything remotely close to the increase in money supply. In fact, the period of time covered by your chart was marked by stubbornly low inflation rates.

What spiked in your chart was the price of gold, not the purchasing power of fiat currency.

Back in 1900, a silver dollar would buy you a steak dinner. Today, that same silver dollar will still buy you a steak dinner.

View attachment 359600

Silver Price Today | Price of Silver Per Ounce | 24 Hour Spot Chart | KITCO

Live Silver Charts and Silver Spot Price from International Silver Markets, Prices from New York, London, Hong Kong and Sydney provided by Kitco.

www.kitco.com

What can you buy with your devalued fiat dollar? You might have trouble finding a deal on a pack of after dinner mints.

That's why I earn a lot more money than somebody in 1900.

 

[Aaron112]

What's wrong with today's Americans

dead in sin and trespasses. ?

 

[Pommer]

Gold and silver are no more "real money" than anything else. "Real money" is whatever a group of people collectively decide has value. Fiat currency is so "relatively worthless " that you can use it to buy literally anything. Relative to precious metals, the value of the "worthless" dollar has remained FAR more consistent over time.

I’m old enough to remember when “Beanie-Babies“ were the BitCoin of their day!

 

[wing2000]

More and more working Americans are living in their cars.

What's wrong with today's Americans, that they expect to be able to afford both a house, AND reliable transportation?

I live and a house and have reliable 12 and 20 year old vehicles...that are well maintained. One does not have to buy that new crossover with the latest tech....

 

[HARK!]

Deception is not liberty.

Exactly, and usury is bondage.