Christians finally smashing the idol of Multiculturalism

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Judge someone? Those who have rejected the traditional self serving ways of mankind, do not judge a person but recognize the errors within them that keep a person 'of the world' rather than of the Kingdom.

So we cannot judge people in any capacity? We cannot discern character from actions or proclivity? Would you for instance not judge the Christchurch shooter as a murderer because you are above the world?

It is something we all have experienced at one time so if we "judge them" we have judged ourselves. We cannot control what led them to be so self absorbed but we can demonstrate how reversing that selfishness leads to the Kingdom. That is love.

In judging others for their actions we also recognize our own sin. But you're saying we cannot hold anyone to account for anything because judging someone is immoral for Christians. That's just insane and no one can actually live by this standard because we make judgements all the time, in terms of love, relationships and business. It would be impossible to maintain these things without discernment.

 

[timothyu]

So we cannot judge people in any capacity? We cannot discern character from actions or proclivity?

We can discern the self-centeredness, the original sin that led to the action. It is in all of us and we all are capable of the same results if we follow selfish ways. But yes if a person is dangerous due to an out of control selfishness, then yes they must be restricted until they can realize the error of such backwards thinking thus rejecting the self-serving ways of mankind. All God ever asked was we put His will ahead of our own. What you speak of in murder as an example, is a result of not doing so. Even refusing to let someone merge in traffic is based on the same sin as murder, putting our will ahead of the will of God.. So judging a person is still judging self. And we cannot repair the world using the same ideals / backwards thinking of man, that created the problems in the first place.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

We can discern the self-centeredness, the original sin that led to the action. It is in all of us and we all are capable of the same results if we follow selfish ways. But yes if a person is dangerous due to an out of control selfishness, then yes they must be restricted until they can realize the error of such backwards thinking thus rejecting the self-serving ways of mankind. All God ever asked was we put His will ahead of our own. What you speak of in murder as an example, is a result of not doing so. Even refusing to let someone merge in traffic is based on the same sin as murder, putting our will ahead of the will of God.. So judging a person is still judging self. And we cannot repair the world using the same ideals / backwards thinking of man, that created the problems in the first place.

What makes a person dangerous? How do we judge that in a person?

 

[timothyu]

What makes a person dangerous? How do we judge that in a person?

A matter a degree as to how selfish actions hurts another. It can range from a toddler taking a toy from another to all inbetween this and outright physical destruction of fellow man in all its forms. But it is the selfish action, contrary to the will of God that we act in servitude to the needs of others, that is the problem. Not the human themselves.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

A matter a degree as to how selfish actions hurts another. It can range from a toddler taking a toy from another to all inbetween this and outright physical destruction of fellow man in all its forms. But it is the selfish action, contrary to the will of God that we act in servitude to the needs of others, that is the problem. Not the human themselves.

How do you determine someone is selfish? How do you make that judgement?

 

[timothyu]

How do you determine someone is selfish? How do you make that judgement?

Again we are all born with the instinct, a survival mechanism of our animal nature. It just exposes itself in matters of degree, and just as the perpetrator self determines what is good or evil, we determine the degree of harm it does to others. Again, we are just as capable of the same selfishness so it is a matter of inmates regulating inmates. The key is in recognizing the sin, not the sinner.

 

[Yarddog]

So you don't have such a love then.

No one can love as much as God but that doesn't mean we don't surrender to his Spirit so that we can love better, tomorrow than today.

No not everyone is a potential friend because there will always be people that work against what you want.

That doesn't mean, that with God's help, anyone can't become my brother. I've done that in the past and will probably do it again.

Even God has an enemy, Satan. Are you better than God?

I can never be close to being like that but Satan leaves me alone and through the power of God's Holy Spirit I've cast out Antichrist Spirit from a man I was associated with.

 

[Yarddog]

amorphous undefined "love" is more in harmony with satanism than Christianity. it can mean anything. a mass orgy is "love"... this kind of "love" always tends towards blending everything together, rendering nature down to an indistinguishable essence, and disregarding any kind of natural order.

But the true love of God is spiritually and hierarchically ordered.

For example, homosexuality is a sin and against love because it rejects God's natural order, and God defines what real love is.

"Oneness in Christ" has never been an excuse to abandon this natural order. But postwar Christianity has had a tendency to try and use soteriology as a method of eradicating natural order.

Are you implying that the love which Jesus commanded us to give to others, is Satanic? The sounds like the unforgivable sin.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

No one can love as much as God but that doesn't mean we don't surrender to his Spirit so that we can love better, tomorrow than today.

It also doesn't mean we try the impossible to love equally. Not even God loves all equally and to some he has given more.

That doesn't mean, that with God's help, anyone can't become my brother. I've done that in the past and will probably do it again.

But not all will become your brother's and wouldn't you say you make no distinction between brother and enemy? For they are equal in your eyes?

I can never be close to being like that but Satan leaves me alone and through the power of God's Holy Spirit I've cast out Antichrist Spirit from a man I was associated with.

Why can't you be friends with Satan if your God's love is so universal?

 

[RamiC]

okay, kids whose great grandparents fought and died for the nation in the 20th century world wars. specific enough for you?

Yes, hello, my great grandparents, grandparents and both parents all right there in those wars, .

One side of my family invaded the place from abroad in 1066, the other side escaped from a famine in Ireland, in 1848.

i suspect this is simply not a reality you are willing to deal with, (even though it is a decades long horror that is now being openly admitted in the halls of UK parliament).

I have no idea what you would consider me "dealing with it".

racism is a useless undefined term.

Definition of racism

hating another person on an individual level is a sin.

My post #30 in this thread, combined with the definition provided above. There is no specification for an individual level.

then you should also know that citizens of the UK are now routinely harassed or arrested by the police for even talking about this subject in any way that would identify the group perpetrating mass child rape. This is a fact and UK citizens routinely post videos of these police interactions for all to see.

If they are accusing anyone of mass child rape based on a legally protected characteristic, then scenes with concerned police will be happening.

I hope this is clear, because I am not a lawyer. It is a crime in the UK to accuse someone of a crime based solely on their having a "protected characteristic". It is not a crime to produce evidence that a person has committed a crime, or express suspicion that they have, based on some chosen action of theirs, regardless of "protected characteristics". However, child abuse, or being a child abuser is not a "protected characteristic", it is a crime.

I think you're sort of proving my point here.

I don't.

 

[Yarddog]

It also doesn't mean we try the impossible to love equally.

Any person can love better than they currently are.

But not all will become your brother's and wouldn't you say you make no distinction between brother and enemy? For they are equal in your eyes?

We are equal. We are all sinners. We all need God's grace to obtain salvation.

Why can't you be friends with Satan if your God's love is so universal?

I'd be glad to embrace him if glad me to do so. I hold no animosity towards Satan. I pray God finds a way to save all.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Any person can love better than they currently are.

But no one can ever love universally apart from personal attachments. There will always be those people in our life who command a greater love from us. To love everyone equally is impossible and God doesn't expect us to love everyone equally. There is clearly a hierarchy.

We are equal. We are all sinners. We all need God's grace to obtain salvation.

Equal in what way? We are all sinners in what way? If we are all equal, should we treat everyone like we treat murderers, thieves or adulterers since there is no difference?

I'd be glad to embrace him if glad me to do so. I hold no animosity towards Satan. I pray God finds a way to save all.

So why then do yoy pray for protection from Satan? Should you not be open to Satan on his own terms? After all, everyone is equal and deserves equal treatment. Even spiritual entities. I suppose there is no difference between St Michael and Satan on this worldview.

 

[lifepsyop]

Definition of racism

My post #30 in this thread, combined with the definition provided above. There is no specification for an individual level.

it's definitely not a sin to point out tendencies of particular ethnic groups. individually they are all image bearers of God, and yet as a group they may have degenerate practices, rituals, etc. that have been ingrained in their culture for centuries.

nor is it a sin to point out how much ethnic strife results in cramming widely disparate ethnic groups together through mass immigration.

If they are accusing anyone of mass child rape based on a legally protected characteristic, then scenes with concerned police will be happening.

I hope this is clear, because I am not a lawyer. It is a crime in the UK to accuse someone of a crime based solely on their having a "protected characteristic". It is not a crime to produce evidence that a person has committed a crime, or express suspicion that they have, based on some chosen action of theirs, regardless of "protected characteristics". However, child abuse, or being a child abuser is not a "protected characteristic", it is a crime.

yea, so you're just proving my point. if the facts on the ground end up pointing towards an actual problem with the practices and tendencies of a particular ethnic/immigrant group, then nobody is allowed to notice it. which is what is actually happening and has been happening in the UK for decades. nobody is allowed to see the pattern of perpetration, or investigate based on such a pattern.

essentially, believers in the postwar consensus have to deny reality.

it is certainly not a Christian virtue to deny reality.

the apostle Paul had no problem pointing out how terrible the tendencies of the ethnic group of Cretans were. (Titus 1:12) If he did that today he'd have a legion of postwar consensus Christians losing their minds about how "bigoted" and "racist" he was.

 

[Yarddog]

But no one can ever love universally apart from personal attachments.

Nothing allows us to reject giving love.

There will always be those people in our life who command a greater love from us.

Greater love? Love is not something that one has to divide. Unlike time, you can love equality. I don't love one child or grandchild differently. I love equally.

To love everyone equally is impossible and God doesn't expect us to love everyone equally.

We can love everyone in our lives equally. You may not but that is just thinking negatively. God expects us to love. That is the command Jesus gave us.

Do I love people that I have no clue that exist? I guess that would be a no. I love mankind, though, and I pray for man's salvation, so I can show love for thos that I don't know

There is clearly a hierarchy.

We are not to show preference based on hierarchy.

Equal in what way? We are all sinners in what way? If we are all equal, should we treat everyone like we treat murderers, thieves or adulterers since there is no difference?

I have known murderers, drug dealers, lots of adulterers, plenty of thieves, etc.. I loved them and we're friends. Did I treat them the same? No. I was aware of who I could trust and who I couldn't. I didn't put them in a position where they hurt anyone, but I was still there when they needed me.

So why then do yoy pray for protection from Satan?

I don't remember the last time that I prayed for protection from Satan. Unless you refer to the Renewal of the Baptism Promise that we sat at Easter.

Should you not be open to Satan on his own terms?

No, Satan has been shown to be the great liar. I put no trust in his lies.

You seem to think that loving another means treating exactly the same. Which it doesn't.
Loving a drug addict doesn't mean we provide them with what is killing them. The same with alcoholics, thieves, etc...

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Nothing allows us to reject giving love.

Nothing compels us to do what is impossible and love all people and things equally.

Greater love? Love is not something that one has to divide. Unlike time, you can love equality. I don't love one child or grandchild differently. I love equally.

So you love all women equally? You love your neighbors child like you love your own?

We can love everyone in our lives equally. You may not but that is just thinking negatively. God expects us to love. That is the command Jesus gave us.

Jesus nowhere commands us to love all equally. You cannot for instance love someone who wants to murder you more than your brother in Christ who wants to help you.

Do I love people that I have no clue that exist? I guess that would be a no. I love mankind, though, and I pray for man's salvation, so I can show love for thos that I don't know

Except you dont love all mankind equally. No one does. I would be willing to bet your actions do not reflect your statements.

We are not to show preference based on hierarchy.

But we do and this is natural. There is nothing wrong with loving your own children more than others children.

I have known murderers, drug dealers, lots of adulterers, plenty of thieves, etc.. I loved them and we're friends. Did I treat them the same? No. I was aware of who I could trust and who I couldn't. I didn't put them in a position where they hurt anyone, but I was still there when they needed me.

if you are consistent you would do everything for these people that you would do for family. You dont and this exhibits your preference for your own family. Unless you are willing to risk your family's welfare in order to serve everyone, you clearly dont love everyone equally.

I don't remember the last time that I prayed for protection from Satan. Unless you refer to the Renewal of the Baptism Promise that we sat at Easter.

Why do you need to be protected from Satan? He is a fellow Creature and is worthy of respect right?

No, Satan has been shown to be the great liar. I put no trust in his lies.

and? Hes equal to you and me. What makes him worse?

You seem to think that loving another means treating exactly the same. Which it doesn't.
Loving a drug addict doesn't mean we provide them with what is killing them. The same with alcoholics, thieves, etc...

 

[Yarddog]

Nothing compels us to do what is impossible and love all people and things equally.

It's not impossible to love. Try it sometime.

So you love all women equally? You love your neighbors child like you love your own?

I love them all. Even the brats

Jesus nowhere commands us to love all equally.

He commands us to love others as you love yourself. Do you have a problem with that? He commands us love each other as he loves us.

That's a pretty straight answer.

 

[RamiC]

No, Satan has been shown to be the great liar. I put no trust in his lies.

Yes quite, because Satan is not one of our neighbours, the commandment to love all, yes equally, does not include him.

 

[lifepsyop]

Nothing compels us to do what is impossible and love all people and things equally.

So you love all women equally? You love your neighbors child like you love your own?

Jesus nowhere commands us to love all equally. You cannot for instance love someone who wants to murder you more than your brother in Christ who wants to help you.

Except you dont love all mankind equally. No one does. I would be willing to bet your actions do not reflect your statements.

But we do and this is natural. There is nothing wrong with loving your own children more than others children.

if you are consistent you would do everything for these people that you would do for family. You dont and this exhibits your preference for your own family. Unless you are willing to risk your family's welfare in order to serve everyone, you clearly dont love everyone equally.

Why do you need to be protected from Satan? He is a fellow Creature and is worthy of respect right?

and? Hes equal to you and me. What makes him worse?

It costs nothing for them to just keep saying "I love everyone equally!" Just pointless virtue signaling, and a pointless argument imo.

 

[lifepsyop]

It's not impossible to love. Try it sometime.

I love them all. Even the brats

He commands us to love others as you love yourself. Do you have a problem with that? He commands us love each other as he loves us.

That's a pretty straight answer.

Real love actually costs something.

Regarding the OP topic, how many third-world immigrants do you currently have staying in your home right now? (I'm sure you have the physical space for at least a few) and do you also have your own children to support and protect?

At the end of the day, I'm sure you have the same practical concerns as the average person, and act on them accordingly. Saying "I love everyone equally" on a message board doesn't cost you a thing.

In reality, mass immigration of mostly non-Christian, third-world peoples' into our country inflicts huge social costs, particularly on our poor native population who are having a hard enough time without having to deal with constant ethnic strife. That's not love.

 

[Infirmus]

In reality, mass immigration of mostly non-Christian, third-world peoples' into our country inflicts huge social costs, particularly on our poor native population who are having a hard enough time without having to deal with constant ethnic strife. That's not love.

Very well said. Christians (especially Christian politicians) would be well advised to remember about ordo caritatis - the ancient and very wise idea that our love for others should be extended according to their proximity and relationship to us. Our family members, our close friends, our neighbours and citizens of our country should come before foreigners. Of course, our love should also extend universally to all people but not at the expense of those close to us. It is not only an ancient Christian idea but also a very rational approach that reflects natural and moral order of things. There are unfortunately those who, having their mouths full of platitudes about "love", are acting against both ordo caritatis and common sense.

Luckily, I live in a country that hasn't yet fully succumbed to this foolishness.