Witch... why?

[Tellyontellyon]

Christians seem to have a dislike for witches and witchcraft.
Apart from scripture saying people shouldn't practice witchcraft, are there any particular issues that Christians have... Why is witchcraft so disliked by Christians? Are you scared of them? What's the problem?

 

[BobRyan]

Christians seem to have a dislike for witches and witchcraft.
Apart from scripture saying people shouldn't practice witchcraft, are there any particular issues that Christians have... Why is witchcraft so disliked by witches? Are you scared of them? What's the problem?

Satan has his own program for worship devotion, followers and God has the Bible - the Gospel etc.

It is no wonder that opposing sides have opposing forms of worship. One for darkness and one for light.

The Gen 1-3 account shows humans that Satan is no friend of humanity -- not by a long shot.
So how is it that some people are so prone to worship that which is dedicated to the downfall of humanity? that is the puzzler to me.

We pray for those in darkness. We pray they will come to the light.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Christians seem to have a dislike for witches and witchcraft.
Apart from scripture saying people shouldn't practice witchcraft, are there any particular issues that Christians have... Why is witchcraft so disliked by witches? Are you scared of them? What's the problem?

No, I am not afraid of people who practice Paganism or who practice esoteric spiritual rituals.

I don't believe in magic(k).

The reason why Christianity is opposed to "witchcraft" is the same reason why Christianity is opposed to idolatry and a belief in gods and goddesses. We believe in only one God, who made the heavens and the earth and all things in them. This God is infinite, eternal, He is above all things, fills all things, is entirely other than all things; and thus we cannot create an idol of Him and worship it.

It's the same reason that we don't pray toward Mecca. It's the same reason that we don't believe in karma, or moksha/samsara. It's the same reason that we don't imbibe mind-altering substances as a way to try and commune with spirits. It's the same reason why we don't throw animal bones, or look to the stars, or spin a wheel to try to understand what the fates have to say. We don't believe in them. We consider these things to be false religion, false spirituality, false ways of understanding the world and engaging with the world.

There is a correct way to understand and engage the world: the beliefs and practices of Christianity. And then there are many false and incorrect ways; that which isn't Christianity.

With an asterisk(*) here that I'm not talking about things like, how to get your car tuned up at a garage by a mechanic, or how to deliver mail, or how to organize a school fundraiser, or even a scientific engagement with the natural world. Rather the focus is on matters of belief--what we believe about the world, what we believe about human beings, and how human beings should relate to one another, about God, who God is, how God is, what God is, what God does, what God says, etc. And that does bleed into all manner of other mundane activities--if I am a mechanic that works at a garage, then how I treat people who come to me for my services means that I am to treat them with dignity and respect, not exploit them, not exploit my employees, don't cheat anyone, be honest, try to do a good job at what I do, etc.

As I've said dozens of times in other posts you've made about this same subject over the years: the history of Christianity and witchcraft has become complicated because certain superstitions have appeared in recent times. So there are Christians who believe that there are people who practice dark supernatural powers which they have received from demons. And superstition has fed a lot of conspiracy theories and paranoia about what goes bump in the night.

But, as it pertains to historic and mainstream Christian religion. The problem with "witchcraft" is simply that it's not real, it's a superstitious way of looking at the world that is incompatible with the way Christians are supposed to look at and engage the world. To offer a mundane comparison, it's like trying to fix buggy software on your computer by shouting at it and throwing your computer into a bathtub. You won't fix the problem, and quite frankly, you're either accomplishing nothing at all or just breaking your whole computer in the process.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Christians seem to have a dislike for witches and witchcraft.
Apart from scripture saying people shouldn't practice witchcraft, are there any particular issues that Christians have... Why is witchcraft so disliked by witches? Are you scared of them? What's the problem?

The underlying spiritual nature of witchcraft is the opposite of Christianity.

Though this is true on a simple level, it is also true on a complex level as well.

Though I could speak at length about this subject, I've found that experiencing the difference is the best teacher.

 

[ARBITER01]

Christians seem to have a dislike for witches and witchcraft.
Apart from scripture saying people shouldn't practice witchcraft, are there any particular issues that Christians have... Why is witchcraft so disliked by witches? Are you scared of them? What's the problem?

Witchcraft is normally a very selfish practice.

It has nothing to do with GOD above, and everything to do with how a person can manipulate a situation or a person to their advantage. Prayer is a universal aspect established by GOD. Christians pray to GOD above for answers, but people involved in witchcraft pray person to person trying to manipulate that other persons actions or activities around them.

Some people involved in it will deny this, but that is what it basically comes down to after dealing with these people for about 30 years.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Christians seem to have a dislike for witches and witchcraft.
Apart from scripture saying people shouldn't practice witchcraft, are there any particular issues that Christians have... Why is witchcraft so disliked by witches? Are you scared of them? What's the problem?

I'm not sure if you mean to imply, or take it as basic that there are things that are actually neither bad nor good in and of themselves, or presume that all persons are capable in and of themselves to choose right and wrong. There are many, maybe even most, Christians who think that same way —that fact itself revolves around them, and the way they see things is fact. One of the results is that Christianity, or Scripture in particular, and the pursuit of Christ, is only to them a sideline or guide, and not a way of life. Inside that group are those who think that there are good witches and bad, and white magic is ok, because it is well-meant. Superstition is rife in that crowd.

Truth does not depend on people, and good is not measured by people, but by God. Bad is anything apart from God. Anything that is not of God is against Him, and is sin, at enmity with God, altogether bad, no matter what one thinks the intentions are. Witchcraft and Divination and dabbling in the spirit-world are expressly forbidden by Scripture. It is really that simple. Witchcraft of all types and purposes are, regardless of how they appear, against God.

 

[NBB]

People don't get, and are blind to the core, that dealing with the devil, which is basically what witches do, kills you soul with sin and you are making deals with the darkness, that can only be bad for you and others, people swim in darkness and blindness, also witchcraft generally is about doing something evil to others, in a really just world witches would go to jail for doing what they do.

The more you get closer to the Holy spirit and the light, the more you realize how terrible and horrible the devil is, and what things they do in this world and people.

 

[johansen]

Demons can provide short term solutions to long term problems.

It may take you your entire life time to realize that... Nothing good comes from them. Anything that seems good was stolen from someone else.

This is simply a result of information theory. God alone who is outside this universe can provide you real authentic entropy reducing information..

Demons can knock a crucifix off a shelf (google paul begley crucifix, for the most authentic example of this ive seen in 30 years) but they will never lift an object and put it on a shelf.

 

[Dave G.]

It is not ours to dabble in the occult. Both so called white and black witchcraft do just that. To do so invites in the enemy, it's an open door that needs to be shut and remain so. If you play in it long enough you will begin to experience demonic activity. In no way to be compared to Holy Spirit or Holy Angelic activity. Eventually you have a mess, like mixing oil and water. Now you first have to rid that enemy before you can close the door.

All things in the Christian's life needs to be endorsable by the name Jesus Christ. He directs our paths by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[timewerx]

Christians seem to have a dislike for witches and witchcraft.
Apart from scripture saying people shouldn't practice witchcraft, are there any particular issues that Christians have... Why is witchcraft so disliked by witches? Are you scared of them? What's the problem?

Ironically, Christianity in its dark past have committed atrocities against "heretics" falsely accused of witchcraft.

Many of their victims are not even practicing witchcraft and are not even heretics.

Even Jesus has been falsely referred to as a "magician" which can simply be another word for "witch". Similarly, Jesus is falsely accused of heresy by the Pharisees.

People will always slander what they do not understand - Jude 1:10. Christians are definitely not an exception and the religion have blood on its hands for the slander and slaughter of the innocents throughout its history.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Demons can provide short term solutions to long term problems.

It may take you your entire life time to realize that... Nothing good comes from them. Anything that seems good was stolen from someone else.

Heartily agreed.

This is simply a result of information theory. God alone who is outside this universe can provide you real authentic entropy reducing information..

I'll have to point out that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom Christ the Lord sent when He left this universe, is very much here.

Demons can knock a crucifix off a shelf (google paul begley crucifix, for the most authentic example of this ive seen in 30 years) but they will never lift an object and put it on a shelf.

I'll also have to state that demons do whatever the Comforter permits or requires them to do.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

But concerning the OT:

Christians seem to have a dislike for witches and witchcraft.
Apart from scripture saying people shouldn't practice witchcraft, are there any particular issues that Christians have... Why is witchcraft so disliked by witches? Are you scared of them? What's the problem?

The word "Christian" has many meanings; one of them was, and to a lesser extent still is, power-mad people whose stated purpose is eradication of everyone else from this world. These people take statements of the Old Testament, which do not apply to them, and arrogate self-righteous mass murder, past and hypothetical future, and the criminal in most of this world today. But I am concerned principally with that which is of Christ, which is very different.

Of Christ, we do not hate witches, but we certainly have no respect whatsoever for witchcraft. Witchcraft is the proud attempt to partner with evil spirits in order to gain power in this world. Witches learn, often rather later than they prefer, that the partnership is a lie, that they are dominated, bound, by their familiar spirits. One of our purposes which Christ has given, is to help others learn to submit to the Comforter, the Holy Spirit of God, who will release all from that bondage, if willing. Many become willing only after being humbled quite a lot by the consequences of their evil devotions.

 

[johansen]

Heartily agreed.

I'll have to point out that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom Christ the Lord sent when He left this universe, is very much here.

I'll also have to state that demons do whatever the Comforter permits or requires them to do.

God does not require demons do anything. they are simply stuck here waiting for judgement.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The demonic aspect of so-called "witchcraft" is simply this: The lie that it can accomplish anything at all. No one can figure out the future by looking at the stars. No one can change the world or affect oneself or others by performing superstitious rituals.

And I'll even throw this in: There are many Christians who, unaware, practice a form of "Christian magic" because they have been led astray by bad teachers and bad theology. The most obvious example of this are the advocates of the so-called "Prosperity Gospel" and the "word of faith" movement as a whole. It is literal esoteric beliefs dressed up in Sunday morning attire, just research the history of New Thought and its relationship with 20th century Word of Faith teachers (it's not mere coincidence that they are similar, there is a direct causal relationship between them).

Even outside of this damnable doctrine there are, tragically, many Christians who confuse prayer with magic. The "power" of prayer is not that by speaking words we can manipulate the heavens to operate in our favor; it's in learning to submit ourselves and wait patiently in God's mercy. It is the Holy Spirit who, in keeping us in faith, at the receiving end of grace through Word and Sacrament, keeps us abiding in Christ and preserves our faith that we should wait patiently upon the Lord, and lean upon Him and in Him as our refuge.

God isn't going to make my favorite team win the big game, or get me a new bigger house. But He is a loving and benevolent Father who hears me in my cry, and who comforts me with His mercy, and holds me and keeps me, telling me my sins are forgiven, and that even if in this world there is no justice, there is a Day when justice prevails--for the Lord Christ will come as Judge, and God will right all wrongs and set all of creation to rights; all shall be restored and made new. In this life I get sick, I suffer loss, and I behold the wicked often prosper while the righteous fail. Good is not rewarded in this life, and the widow and the orphan often are neglected, the hungry go without food, and the poor lack basic necessities--God wills that we ought to work toward justice, to feed, to clothe, to provide. But the world itself is unjust. God, therefore, desires that I learn to seek after heavenly treasure, to have my mind transformed, my heart changed, my entire attitude conformed to be that of Christ Jesus, who gave Himself freely, even to the point of the shame and suffering of death on the cross. For in God's kingdom the slave is greatest, the last is first, and the valleys raised up and the mountains laid low.

In the end God shall be all in all.

Superstition only blinds us from the truth of a world suffering in darkness and death; and the loving Savior who by His Cross and Empty Tomb brings light into the darkness, life to those in the tombs, and newness to this old decaying world.

Christ is risen from the dead
Trampling down death by death
And to those in the tombs
Bestowing life.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[johansen]

The lie that it can accomplish anything at all.

Some humans develop and discover their spiritual power much earlier than others.

It is not a lie. It is just that anyone not in Christ is not going to get any additional power from God. they can only steal it from elsewhere.

 

[johansen]

I'll have to point out that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom Christ the Lord sent when He left this universe, is very much here.

yes but its only by being outside of it can you make all the observations needed to discover what is the correct thing to do.

I am not saying the Spirit of God doesn't also reside inside the universe.

demons do too. which is why whatever they touch turns to hell. they can only run around like weeds growing, stealing resources from the wheat.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Some humans develop and discover their spiritual power much earlier than others.

I don't believe in "spiritual power". I believe in God.

It is not a lie. It is just that anyone not in Christ is not going to get any additional power from God. they can only steal it from elsewhere.

This is a deeply Pagan way of looking at religion and the world.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[johansen]

This is a deeply Pagan way of looking at religion and the world.

Your mankind is spiritually powerless interpretation is equally lacking.

 

[ARBITER01]

The demonic aspect of so-called "witchcraft" is simply this: The lie that it can accomplish anything at all. No one can figure out the future by looking at the stars. No one can change the world or affect oneself or others by performing superstitious rituals.

And I'll even throw this in: There are many Christians who, unaware, practice a form of "Christian magic" because they have been led astray by bad teachers and bad theology. The most obvious example of this are the advocates of the so-called "Prosperity Gospel" and the "word of faith" movement as a whole. It is literal esoteric beliefs dressed up in Sunday morning attire, just research the history of New Thought and its relationship with 20th century Word of Faith teachers (it's not mere coincidence that they are similar, there is a direct causal relationship between them).

Even outside of this damnable doctrine there are, tragically, many Christians who confuse prayer with magic. The "power" of prayer is not that by speaking words we can manipulate the heavens to operate in our favor; it's in learning to submit ourselves and wait patiently in God's mercy. It is the Holy Spirit who, in keeping us in faith, at the receiving end of grace through Word and Sacrament, keeps us abiding in Christ and preserves our faith that we should wait patiently upon the Lord, and lean upon Him and in Him as our refuge.

God isn't going to make my favorite team win the big game, or get me a new bigger house. But He is a loving and benevolent Father who hears me in my cry, and who comforts me with His mercy, and holds me and keeps me, telling me my sins are forgiven, and that even if in this world there is no justice, there is a Day when justice prevails--for the Lord Christ will come as Judge, and God will right all wrongs and set all of creation to rights; all shall be restored and made new. In this life I get sick, I suffer loss, and I behold the wicked often prosper while the righteous fail. Good is not rewarded in this life, and the widow and the orphan often are neglected, the hungry go without food, and the poor lack basic necessities--God wills that we ought to work toward justice, to feed, to clothe, to provide. But the world itself is unjust. God, therefore, desires that I learn to seek after heavenly treasure, to have my mind transformed, my heart changed, my entire attitude conformed to be that of Christ Jesus, who gave Himself freely, even to the point of the shame and suffering of death on the cross. For in God's kingdom the slave is greatest, the last is first, and the valleys raised up and the mountains laid low.

In the end God shall be all in all.

Superstition only blinds us from the truth of a world suffering in darkness and death; and the loving Savior who by His Cross and Empty Tomb brings light into the darkness, life to those in the tombs, and newness to this old decaying world.

Christ is risen from the dead
Trampling down death by death
And to those in the tombs
Bestowing life.

-CryptoLutheran

It's real easy to live in a bubble, denying everything.

 

[ARBITER01]

Some humans develop and discover their spiritual power much earlier than others.

It is not a lie. It is just that anyone not in Christ is not going to get any additional power from God. they can only steal it from elsewhere.

Agreed.

witchcraft deals mainly with the prayer/ritual side of things, satanism is where they take those practices and seek greater power from demonic assistance, eventually acknowledging satan and worshipping him to attain it.

The last married couple that I dealt with was involved in satanism. They had sided with satan so much, did his dirty work that he wanted them to do against people so much, that he assigned a fallen angel to each of them. That was something that I didn't know could happen, but that is about as far as one can go with him, he has nothing else beyond that to offer.

The wife was a betrayer, she left Jesus and sided with satan once she had an accident that left her paralyzed from the waste down.