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The Church started in the wilderness

SabbathBlessings

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The fleshy commands are disannulled.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

They are weak, and unprofitable
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Yes, it tells us what these fleshy commandments were that were contained in ordinances - not any of God's finger written commandments

Heb 9: 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various [b]washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things [c]to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, [d]sanctifies for the [e]purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without [f]spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb 10:1 For the law (animal sacrifices) having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once [a]purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
 
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ralliann

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Yes, it tells us what these fleshy commandments were that were contained in ordinances - not any of God's finger written commandments
Not just that///but genealogy as well. Clean and unclean as well as circumcision
.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Not just that///but genealogy as well. Clean and unclean as well as circumcision
.
It says nothing about clean vs unclean, best not to add what is not there, especially when its something Christ calls an abomination Lev 11 Isa 66:17. It doesn't even say circumcision ended. It was just never a means to salvation, that's what Paul was correcting.
 
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ralliann

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It says nothing about clean vs unclean, best not to add what is not there, especially when its something Christ calls an abomination Lev 11 Isa 66:17. It doesn't even say circumcision ended. It was just never a means to salvation, that's what Paul was correcting.
All those things are fleshy commands.
 
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Doug Brents

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The fleshy commands are disannulled.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

They are weak, and unprofitable
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
What version of Scripture are you using? It seems to confuse the issue. Here are those verses in the NASB, but let's take it all the way back to verse 12 and carry on through verse 19.
Heb 7:12-19
"For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one about whom these things are said belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses said nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become a priest not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of Him,
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”
18 For, on the one hand, there is the nullification of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness19 (for the Law made nothing perfect); on the other hand, there is the introduction of a better hope, through which we come near to God."

Jesus is a priest, not according to the Law of Moses, but because His Power. This requires that all of the Law of Moses be annulled, for Jesus cannot be a priest, let alone the High Priest under the Law of Moses, and this brings us better hope because of a better law and covenant based on better promises (Heb 8:6).
 
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SabbathBlessings

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All those things are fleshy commands.
Where does it say that? It only pointed to the animal sacrifices and what was performed by the earthy priesthood in the old sanctuary service under the Levitical priesthood Heb 9:19 Deut 31:24-26 I am pretty sure once God deems something an abomination it stays that way Rev 18:2 Isa 66:17 not worth the risk, but thats me.
 
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ralliann

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Where does it say that? It only pointed to the animal sacrifices and what was performed by the earthy priesthood in the old sanctuary service under the Levitical priesthood Heb 9:19 Deut 31:24-26 I am pretty sure once God deems something an abomination it stays that way Rev 18:2 Isa 66:17 not worth the risk, but thats me.
Paul teaches these things. The fleshy commands are weak and unprofitable
 
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ralliann

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What version of Scripture are you using? It seems to confuse the issue. Here are those verses in the NASB, but let's take it all the way back to verse 12 and carry on through verse 19.
Heb 7:12-19
"For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one about whom these things are said belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses said nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become a priest not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is attested of Him,
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”
18 For, on the one hand, there is the nullification of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness19 (for the Law made nothing perfect); on the other hand, there is the introduction of a better hope, through which we come near to God."

Jesus is a priest, not according to the Law of Moses, but because His Power. This requires that all of the Law of Moses be annulled, for Jesus cannot be a priest, let alone the High Priest under the Law of Moses, and this brings us better hope because of a better law and covenant based on better promises (Heb 8:6).
Of the tribe of JUDAH Moses said nothing of priesthood. Right there. The fleshy descent means nothing in the new covenant
 
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SabbathBlessings

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It is not adding to it. The law is full of fleshy commands.
What they tell us they are, not what we want them to be. its the ordinances, not commandment Eph 3:15, Col 2:14KJV Heb 9:10

Paul said circumcision uncircumcision either one is fine , but never for the means of salvation Acts 15:1 No where in context does it say we can eat what God deemed an abomination. If its an abomination when He returns Isa 66:17, its means its that way now.
 
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ralliann

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What they tell us they are, not what we want them to be.
No. Paul teaches these things.......
Paul said circumcision uncircumcision either one is fine , but never for the means of salvation Acts 15:1
Circumcision matters! Just not the fleshy one in the foreskin. But that of the heart.
No where in context does it say we can eat what God deemed an abomination. If its an abomination when He returns Isa 66:17, its means its that way now.
It does not matter,
Ro 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. {unclean: Gr. common }
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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No. Paul teaches these things.......

Circumcision matters! Just not the fleshy one in the foreskin. But that of the heart.
First you say its a fleshly commandment that ended now you say it matters?
It does not matter,
Ro 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. {unclean: Gr. common }
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
That word can be translated into common, its the first defintion.

koinos: Common, unclean, profane
Original Word: κοινός
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: koinos
Pronunciation: koy-NOS
Phonetic Spelling: (koy-nos')
Definition: Common, unclean, profane
Meaning: (a) common, shared, (b) Hebraistic use: profane; dirty, unclean, unwashed.

I do not believe Paul is saying we can eat foods that are abomination and countermand Christ. I believe what Christ says is final Isa 66:17 but like I said thats me, not worth the risk, no food is worth God’s wrath, but again, thats me.

Guess wew will have to agree to disagree.
 
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ralliann

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First you say its a fleshly commandment that ended now you say it matters?
Can you read?
That word can be translated into common, its the first defintion.

koinos: Common, unclean, profane
Original Word: κοινός
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: koinos
Pronunciation: koy-NOS
Phonetic Spelling: (koy-nos')
Definition: Common, unclean, profane
Meaning: (a) common, shared, (b) Hebraistic use: profane; dirty, unclean, unwashed.
I know.....Doesn't change a thing.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Can you read?
You have been arguing over circumcision this whole time, yes its always been about the heart, but physical circumcision never went away either- Paul said either is ok 1 Cor 7:19, its just never been a means of salvation. Acts 15:1 Or to receive the gospel Gal 2:3 It has lots of health benefits why it’s widely used today.
I know.....Doesn't change a thing.
I guess we will find out soon enough, I think Christ already revealed this for us Isa 66:17 but so many people take Paul readings despite 2 Peter 3:16 over what Jesus taught and lived.

Anyway, I wish you well. Take care.
 
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ralliann

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You have been arguing over circumcision this whole time, yes its always been about the heart, but physical circumcision never went away either- Paul said either is ok 1 Cor 7:19, its just never been a means of salvation. Acts 15:1 Or to receive the gospel Gal 2:3 It has lots of health benefits why it’s widely used today.

I guess we will find out soon enough, I think Christ already revealed this for us Isa 66:17 but so many people take Paul readings despite 2 Peter 3:16 over what Jesus taught and lived.

Anyway, I wish you well. Take care.
So, you don't like Paul.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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So, you don't like Paul.
Like I said best not to read whats not there. I love Paul's writings in context. They need to be reconciled to Christ, sadly most reconcile Christ our Savior to Paul a human. Jesus is the way and if we abide in Him, we ought to follow His example 1 John 2:6
 
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Bro.T

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Please show me where in Scripture it says that the Angels and Cain and Abel were given the Law as it was given to Moses on Mt. Sinai. I have read the Scriptures, and do not see anywhere that it says that they received the Law until Mt Sinai.

By the way, a lie is a falsehood told while knowing the truth. A person can be mistaken and (if they do not know the truth) not be telling a lie. One should keep that in mind when making accusations as you did here. It is possible that I am mistaken. But as I said, I have not found anywhere in Scripture that it says the Law was given before Mt Sinai.
I continue saying the same thing, the wages of Sin is Death (Romans 6:23). Cain Killed Abel, if it wasn't a law, not to kill, then it would of been ok to kill. Satan got kick out of heaven because of iniquity (Sin). The lord burned Sodom and Gomorrha because of sin. In (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) In the days of Abraham there was a high priest, let's go to Genesis 14: 18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. 19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: We also see the bread and wine didn't start in the new testament, that's old.
Let's take a look at another situation in Genesis 12: 7 And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife. 18 And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife? 19 Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way. 20 And Pharaoh commanded his men concerning him: and they sent him away, and his wife, and all that he had. This is thou shall not commit adultery.
You not going to find them written like the ten Commandments, but if you understand God, he not going to allow his creation to have no laws.

No man has ever kept the Law of God perfectly except Jesus. It is impossible for man to keep the Law of God perfectly. So, while we must strive to keep the Law of God, it is not in keeping the Law that our salvation rests. It is in remaining in Christ that our salvation rests. For it is Christ's righteousness that in imputed to us who are in Him in exchange for our unrighteousness.
To repent means to turn from our sinful ways and start obeying God's law. The water baptism signifies the washing away of our past sins. After repenting and being baptized in the name of Jesus it would be foolish for us to turn around and willingly break God's commandments. If we make an honest mistake Jesus can help us, but if we sin willingly, look out! "...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (Hebrews 10:26-27). When Jesus died only the sacrificial law was done away with, alone with Leviticus priesthood.

Your statement (highlighted in blue above) directly contradicts Scripture. There is no level of keeping of the Law (except 100% perfection) by which we can maintain our position of grace. Any sin, even the smallest violation, makes you a Law breaker (James 2:10). And there is only one punishment given in Scripture for being a Law breaker: death. Yet Jesus took on our punishment of death so that He could give us His righteousness and thus His life, if we are and remain in Him. And we remain in Him, not by keeping the Law, but by walking in the Light. We walk in the Light by keeping the New Covenant commands, not the Old Covenant.

Your opinion has been noted, but since it is contradictory to Scripture it is discarded as irrelevant. The school master to bring us to Christ was not just the sacrificial law, but the entirety of the Law.

Again, there is no distinction in Scripture between these laws and the whole of the Law. You are dividing the Law into pieces that Scripture does not.

The whole of the Law, not just pieces.

It signified the end of the whole law, of which the animal sacrifice was just as part. There is no division here.

But God's commandments under the first covenant are not all the same as the commandments of the second covenant.

And please quit putting your own commentary into the Scriptures. The Law is not just the law of animal sacrifices, but the whole entirety of what was given at Mt Sinai (Gal 4:24).

The law we must keep today is significantly different from the Law of the Old Covenant. You are correct that there are no more sacrifices for sin outside of the blood of Christ. Even under the Old Covenant the blood of animals could not actually take the sin away, but simply postponed the punishment for that sin until Christ's blood could remove it entirely. But the moral law of the Old Covenant are not binding on us today, because the moral law of God to which we are subject is the law of the New Covenant. Only what is stated as binding on us in the New Covenant is binding on us today. And nowhere in the New Covenant is there a command to keep the sabbath, or the dietary laws of the Old Covenant, or the sacrificial system, or the "high holy days" of the Old Covenant, etc. If we must keep any part of the Old Covenant, then we must keep the whole of the Old Covenant, and you just said that the Old Covenant (the first) has ended.
The book say in 2 John 1: 6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
 
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Bro.T

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You may practice the 10 void of love and miss the whole point, thus displeases God. Instead we should be focused on what Christ tells us which is a focus of love upon others. There is no need to consult the 10 while doing this, we are not guided by the 10, we are guided by the Spirit thus align yourself with the Spirit. This instruction is the law written upon your heart.
Not one scripture or verse, but you go right ahead and let that spirit guide you. The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. Stop committing fornication.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.
 
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Bro.T

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But you know, @Bro.T , if we remove the priesthood with its ability to inquire of the Lord regarding the practice of every law, then each person becomes their own interpreter of how to keep a law

Is it enough for you if we just agree that we are to remember the Sabbath to keep it holy, and how we do that is up to each individual?

Peace be with you, my man :heart:
If you want to settle for that understanding then that's how you see it, but the book show us more.

peace in Jesus name
 
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