The Church started in the wilderness

[Doug Brents]

You really not understanding what you reading, let's take a closer look at what Paul is saying because he's not talking the Holy Days in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.


(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
To sum up what going on here in Galatians, Paul is explaining that Christ came from Abraham seed, and remove the animal Sacrificial law. But in the days of Abraham that animal Sacrificial law never was on the table, and was not needed for Abraham to obey and have faith in God. But the Commandments was always on the table.

The ten commandments were not given to Abraham. They were given at Mt Sinai along with the rest of the Law. It was the law, that came 430 years after the promise was given, that does not annul the promise. The promise is still valid, and was fulfilled by Jesus, but the law (all of it, not just the animal sacrifices) was annulled by Christ when He fulfilled the promise.

Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

The Law that was given to Abraham was not the same as what was given to Moses. Abraham did not keep the sabbath, because that law was not given to him. Abraham did not have food restrictions, but Moses received food restrictions on Mt. Sinai when he was 80 (no food restrictions before that). And again, the law given to Moses was completely removed by Christ, not just the sacrificial laws.

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law.

We do not serve the law. The question is not about why we serve the Law, but about what purpose the Law served. The Law served the purpose of showing us transgressions, and was only good until the Seed came about whom the Promise was made (Jesus).

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus.

No. It was not just the animal sacrifice laws that were added. Yes, God's law is eternal, but all parts of His Law are not given to some groups of people at different times. Adam was given only two "Laws": tend the garden, and don't eat from the Tree. Don't murder was not a law given to him at that time. And if the law is not given, there is no sin even though the law was broken (Rom 4:15).

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster. (Paul breaks down more of this law in Hebrew 10th Chapter)
And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law.


Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. So when you quoted all the places in the Bible that do away with this animal sacrificial law, not understanding that Paul talks about two sets of law. The Royal law (Ten Commandments) and the animal sacrificial law sometimes in the same verse you bring can bring destruction to yourself not knowing which law is which.

LOL, You are making me laugh here. All of the Law of Moses (which includes the ten commandments, the sacrificial laws, the moral laws, the priesthood laws, the dietary laws, etc.) were ALL removed together. Not pieces, not parts, ALL of it together as one piece.

At some point common sense you kick in. If I'm reading about the doing away of a law or not under a law, then somewhere else Paul tell you that the law is Holy just and good, another place break mostly all the Ten commandments down. A light bulb should come on in your head, Paul have to be talking about two sets of laws. In other places Paul explain the animal sacrificial law.

No, the law can be holy, just, and good, and still be done away with, because the Law that was holy, just, and good was established on inferior promises, and was only established as a schoolmaster/tutor to bring us to Jesus. He fulfilled the Law, and through Him we can receive (be accounted as having done) the full and complete righteousness of the Law. We don't have to keep the Law because He did. We can receive His righteousness (as if we had kept the Law perfectly as He did) if we are IN HIM.

If you are following all of the writing of Paul, then you will find out that you are following Jesus, and if you are truly following Jesus then you are following the law of God.Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.

Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy.

A Christian follows Christ, not the Law. You are asking us to become "Lawians" instead of Christians.

Paul concerning the unchangeable Royal Law of God. (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Paul is saying here that if we love our neighbor (as Jesus loved all, and calls us to love each other), we have fulfilled ALL of the Law because we are in Christ. We do not have to keep the Law, we must keep Christ, because Christ is the fulfillment of the Law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17)

And all of those laws except for keeping the sabbath and the dietary restrictions, are stated in the New Covenant as laws by which the NT Christ follower is to abide. But the keeping of the sabbath and the dietary restrictions are not only not included as laws, but are expressly excluded from being relevant to us in the New Covenant. The rules and Laws given from Genesis to Malachi are not relevant to the NT Christ follower. Only those laws and rules given from Matthew to Revelation are relevant, and the sabbath and dietary restrictions are not laws given in Matthew to Revelation.

 

[Bro.T]

The ten commandments were not given to Abraham. They were given at Mt Sinai along with the rest of the Law. It was the law, that came 430 years after the promise was given, that does not annul the promise. The promise is still valid, and was fulfilled by Jesus, but the law (all of it, not just the animal sacrifices) was annulled by Christ when He fulfilled the promise.

The Law that was given to Abraham was not the same as what was given to Moses. Abraham did not keep the sabbath, because that law was not given to him. Abraham did not have food restrictions, but Moses received food restrictions on Mt. Sinai when he was 80 (no food restrictions before that). And again, the law given to Moses was completely removed by Christ, not just the sacrificial laws.

That's a lie. The law was given to Abraham, just like it was given to Cain and Abel, and just like it was given to Satan when he was in heaven. Now the written Law was given to Mose, but Sin was always a problem with God and leads to death. The word say in Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

We do not serve the law. The question is not about why we serve the Law, but about what purpose the Law served. The Law served the purpose of showing us transgressions, and was only good until the Seed came about whom the Promise was made (Jesus).

No. It was not just the animal sacrifice laws that were added. Yes, God's law is eternal, but all parts of His Law are not given to some groups of people at different times. Adam was given only two "Laws": tend the garden, and don't eat from the Tree. Don't murder was not a law given to him at that time. And if the law is not given, there is no sin even though the law was broken (Rom 4:15).

LOL, You are making me laugh here. All of the Law of Moses (which includes the ten commandments, the sacrificial laws, the moral laws, the priesthood laws, the dietary laws, etc.) were ALL removed together. Not pieces, not parts, ALL of it together as one piece.

No, the law can be holy, just, and good, and still be done away with, because the Law that was holy, just, and good was established on inferior promises, and was only established as a schoolmaster/tutor to bring us to Jesus. He fulfilled the Law, and through Him we can receive (be accounted as having done) the full and complete righteousness of the Law. We don't have to keep the Law because He did. We can receive His righteousness (as if we had kept the Law perfectly as He did) if we are IN HIM.

A Christian follows Christ, not the Law. You are asking us to become "Lawians" instead of Christians.

Paul is saying here that if we love our neighbor (as Jesus loved all, and calls us to love each other), we have fulfilled ALL of the Law because we are in Christ. We do not have to keep the Law, we must keep Christ, because Christ is the fulfillment of the Law.

And all of those laws except for keeping the sabbath and the dietary restrictions, are stated in the New Covenant as laws by which the NT Christ follower is to abide. But the keeping of the sabbath and the dietary restrictions are not only not included as laws, but are expressly excluded from being relevant to us in the New Covenant. The rules and Laws given from Genesis to Malachi are not relevant to the NT Christ follower. Only those laws and rules given from Matthew to Revelation are relevant, and the sabbath and dietary restrictions are not laws given in Matthew to Revelation.

You just don't get it, the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

When you read about the law having a shadow of good things to come, and the law that was our school master to bring us unto Christ, it was not referring to God’s holy commandments but the animal sacrifice law. Also we have to understand that the levites are out of office so all those laws that were for the levites to do for the people are nail to the cross, alone with the animal Sacrificial laws. Daniel the prophet foretold the doing away of this law. (Dan 9:26-27) And after threescore and two weeks shall Mes-si’-ah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Now we know that Jesus is the Mes-si’-ah, and cut off means to be killed, and Jesus didn’t die for himself, but for the sins of the people. (v.27) “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.” When Jesus died on the cross he caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. This signified the end of the law of animal sacrifice, not Gods Royal law.

Paul explained this in; (Hebrews 10: (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The point that is not understood is that we all have sin, but until Jesus came, there was no way of getting out from under your sins. So God institute a Priesthood and laws that went with the priesthood to control the sinning, and so the Lord use animal Sacrificial laws, even though it could not remove sins.When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments.

(v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (20) by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (21) and having an high priest over the house of God; (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

 

[Bro.T]

Hi Bro.T, I can see that you really like to look closely at the scriptures here

In the set of laws called God’s holy commandments, how many laws do you find? Do you see just ten, or are there others?

Peace be with you, my man

I don't have a number, but we have the laws (Commandments), Statues and Judgements. One thing we do know, if any laws connect to the priesthood duties, they nail to the cross until the Jesus comes back. But look what James says 4: 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

 

[ralliann]

The ten commandments were not given to Abraham. They were given at Mt Sinai along with the rest of the Law. It was the law, that came 430 years after the promise was given, that does not annul the promise.

I can agree, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did not have the covenant at Sinai, but not sure about the rest of the ten.
Deut 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. {keep … : Heb. keep to do them }
2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

The promise is still valid, and was fulfilled by Jesus, but the law (all of it, not just the animal sacrifices) was annulled by Christ when He fulfilled the promise.

The Law that was given to Abraham was not the same as what was given to Moses.

Again I can agree here...Paul speaks of the law of faith. Hebrews begins with ABEL....

Abraham did not keep the sabbath, because that law was not given to him. Abraham did not have food restrictions, but Moses received food restrictions on Mt. Sinai when he was 80 (no food restrictions before that). And again, the law given to Moses was completely removed by Christ, not just the sacrificial laws.

We do not serve the law. The question is not about why we serve the Law, but about what purpose the Law served. The Law served the purpose of showing us transgressions, and was only good until the Seed came about whom the Promise was made (Jesus).

No. It was not just the animal sacrifice laws that were added. Yes, God's law is eternal, but all parts of His Law are not given to some groups of people at different times. Adam was given only two "Laws": tend the garden, and don't eat from the Tree. Don't murder was not a law given to him at that time. And if the law is not given, there is no sin even though the law was broken (Rom 4:15).

LOL, You are making me laugh here. All of the Law of Moses (which includes the ten commandments, the sacrificial laws, the moral laws, the priesthood laws, the dietary laws, etc.) were ALL removed together. Not pieces, not parts, ALL of it together as one piece.

No, the law can be holy, just, and good, and still be done away with, because the Law that was holy, just, and good was established on inferior promises, and was only established as a schoolmaster/tutor to bring us to Jesus. He fulfilled the Law, and through Him we can receive (be accounted as having done) the full and complete righteousness of the Law. We don't have to keep the Law because He did. We can receive His righteousness (as if we had kept the Law perfectly as He did) if we are IN HIM.

A Christian follows Christ, not the Law. You are asking us to become "Lawians" instead of Christians.

Paul is saying here that if we love our neighbor (as Jesus loved all, and calls us to love each other), we have fulfilled ALL of the Law because we are in Christ. We do not have to keep the Law, we must keep Christ, because Christ is the fulfillment of the Law.

And all of those laws except for keeping the sabbath and the dietary restrictions, are stated in the New Covenant as laws by which the NT Christ follower is to abide. But the keeping of the sabbath and the dietary restrictions are not only not included as laws, but are expressly excluded from being relevant to us in the New Covenant. The rules and Laws given from Genesis to Malachi are not relevant to the NT Christ follower. Only those laws and rules given from Matthew to Revelation are relevant, and the sabbath and dietary restrictions are not laws given in Matthew to Revelation.

I believe the difference is the fleshy commands and judgements were specific to Moses law....
Genealogy, food, etc. But I also believe the law RETAINED law of the nations as well.
***A common righteousness among men to their fellow man.
***The nations before them were cast out for defiling the land
Lev 18:24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled
28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

Below we see law common to all men that was RETAINED IN MOSES LAW

See Abimelech on this as well
Gen 20:3 ¶ But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man’s wife. {a man’s … : Heb. married to an husband }
4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this. {integrity: or, simplicity, or, sincerity }
6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

Notice anything?
Abimelech says to the Judge of all the earth something very similar to Abraham. "Lord, will you also slay a righteous nation?

Gen. 18:24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

 

[Leaf473]

I don't have a number, but we have the laws (Commandments), Statues and Judgements. One thing we do know, if any laws connect to the priesthood duties, they nail to the cross until the Jesus comes back. But look what James says 4: 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

That's fine

It looks to me like all of the laws connect to the priesthood duties one way or another,

Because if there was a question about any law, the priest could inquire of the Lord
"Your Thummim and your Urim are with your godly one"
Deuteronomy 33

 

[DamianWarS]

if they love their neighbor they will honor their Father and Mother and they won’t kill or commit adultery or steal or bear false witness nor will they covet.

Christ's commandment is to love our neighborhood, not merely to resist killing them. Love goes beyond the 10.

 

[Bro.T]

Christ's commandment is to love our neighborhood, not merely to resist killing them. Love goes beyond the 10.

This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. Stop committing fornication.

 

[Bro.T]

That's fine

It looks to me like all of the laws connect to the priesthood duties one way or another,

Because if there was a question about any law, the priest could inquire of the Lord
"Your Thummim and your Urim are with your godly one"
Deuteronomy 33

Today we living under the laws (Commandments), Statues and Judgements with out the priesthood. This is the way it was in the days of Abraham. Paul concerning the unchangeable Royal Law of God. (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17)

This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: And in keeping of them there is great reward. (Psalm 19: 7-11)

There more, but we don't need the priesthood for these laws.

 

[Leaf473]

Today we living under the laws (Commandments), Statues and Judgements with out the priesthood. This is the way it was in the days of Abraham. Paul concerning the unchangeable Royal Law of God. (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17)

This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: And in keeping of them there is great reward. (Psalm 19: 7-11)

There more, but we don't need the priesthood for these laws.

I hear what you're saying, but all of the laws are connected to the priesthood

In addition to the priests being able to inquire of the Lord regarding the practice of any law, there is also the priesthood being supported by Israel

Israel had to keep all of the law in order to be healthy and strong, and thus support the priesthood ❤️❤️❤️

Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 28:1-3 - New Century Version

Blessings for Obeying - You must completely obey the LORD your God, and you must carefully follow all his commands I am giving you today. Then the LORD your God will make you greater than any other nation on earth. Obey the LORD your God so that all these blessings will come and stay with you...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

But you know, @Bro.T , if we remove the priesthood with its ability to inquire of the Lord regarding the practice of every law, then each person becomes their own interpreter of how to keep a law

Is it enough for you if we just agree that we are to remember the Sabbath to keep it holy, and how we do that is up to each individual?

Peace be with you, my man

 

[DamianWarS]

You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. Stop committing fornication.

You may practice the 10 void of love and miss the whole point, thus displeases God. Instead we should be focused on what Christ tells us which is a focus of love upon others. There is no need to consult the 10 while doing this, we are not guided by the 10, we are guided by the Spirit thus align yourself with the Spirit. This instruction is the law written upon your heart.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

One could focus on love (their version) and not keep God's commandments and miss the whole point too. Exo 20:6 John 14:15 1 John 5:3- Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14-15

 

[Leaf473]

What most people object to, I think, is ritualized approaches to love. Most people see in the New Testament a focus on the inner attitude of the heart as opposed to outward ritualized actions

 Peace be with you all

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What is in our hearts is what produces actions. Anyone can say I love God, I love my neighbor, but if the actions aren't there, either is the heart. Luke 6:45 Mat 15:8-9 James 1:22 Rev 22:14

 

[DamianWarS]

One could focus on love (their version) and not keep God's commandments and miss the whole point too. Exo 20:6 John 14:15 1 John 5:3- Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14-15

We may practice the 10 without love and miss the point. We may also distort love to our own thing and miss the point just as much. The love I speak of however is the love that Christ speaks of. Of course some may seek to corrupt but malpractice is not a reason why we should give up on love. It's is Christ's commandment to us that NT authors echo quite specifically, so if we want to be faithful to his commandment we need to be able embrace love through all things as we are guided by the Spirit.

 

[Doug Brents]

That's a lie. The law was given to Abraham, just like it was given to Cain and Abel, and just like it was given to Satan when he was in heaven. Now the written Law was given to Mose, but Sin was always a problem with God and leads to death. The word say in Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Please show me where in Scripture it says that the Angels and Cain and Abel were given the Law as it was given to Moses on Mt. Sinai. I have read the Scriptures, and do not see anywhere that it says that they received the Law until Mt Sinai.

By the way, a lie is a falsehood told while knowing the truth. A person can be mistaken and (if they do not know the truth) not be telling a lie. One should keep that in mind when making accusations as you did here. It is possible that I am mistaken. But as I said, I have not found anywhere in Scripture that it says the Law was given before Mt Sinai.

You just don't get it, the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

No man has ever kept the Law of God perfectly except Jesus. It is impossible for man to keep the Law of God perfectly. So, while we must strive to keep the Law of God, it is not in keeping the Law that our salvation rests. It is in remaining in Christ that our salvation rests. For it is Christ's righteousness that in imputed to us who are in Him in exchange for our unrighteousness.

Your statement (highlighted in blue above) directly contradicts Scripture. There is no level of keeping of the Law (except 100% perfection) by which we can maintain our position of grace. Any sin, even the smallest violation, makes you a Law breaker (James 2:10). And there is only one punishment given in Scripture for being a Law breaker: death. Yet Jesus took on our punishment of death so that He could give us His righteousness and thus His life, if we are and remain in Him. And we remain in Him, not by keeping the Law, but by walking in the Light. We walk in the Light by keeping the New Covenant commands, not the Old Covenant.

When you read about the law having a shadow of good things to come, and the law that was our school master to bring us unto Christ, it was not referring to God’s holy commandments but the animal sacrifice law.

Your opinion has been noted, but since it is contradictory to Scripture it is discarded as irrelevant. The school master to bring us to Christ was not just the sacrificial law, but the entirety of the Law.

Also we have to understand that the levites are out of office so all those laws that were for the levites to do for the people are nail to the cross, alone with the animal Sacrificial laws.

Again, there is no distinction in Scripture between these laws and the whole of the Law. You are dividing the Law into pieces that Scripture does not.

Daniel the prophet foretold the doing away of this law. (Dan 9:26-27)

The whole of the Law, not just pieces.

And after threescore and two weeks shall Mes-si’-ah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Now we know that Jesus is the Mes-si’-ah, and cut off means to be killed, and Jesus didn’t die for himself, but for the sins of the people. (v.27) “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.” When Jesus died on the cross he caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. This signified the end of the law of animal sacrifice, not Gods Royal law.

It signified the end of the whole law, of which the animal sacrifice was just as part. There is no division here.

Paul explained this in; (Hebrews 10: (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. (v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The point that is not understood is that we all have sin, but until Jesus came, there was no way of getting out from under your sins. So God institute a Priesthood and laws that went with the priesthood to control the sinning, and so the Lord use animal Sacrificial laws, even though it could not remove sins. When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments.

But God's commandments under the first covenant are not all the same as the commandments of the second covenant.

And please quit putting your own commentary into the Scriptures. The Law is not just the law of animal sacrifices, but the whole entirety of what was given at Mt Sinai (Gal 4:24).

(v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (20) by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (21) and having an high priest over the house of God; (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

The law we must keep today is significantly different from the Law of the Old Covenant. You are correct that there are no more sacrifices for sin outside of the blood of Christ. Even under the Old Covenant the blood of animals could not actually take the sin away, but simply postponed the punishment for that sin until Christ's blood could remove it entirely. But the moral law of the Old Covenant are not binding on us today, because the moral law of God to which we are subject is the law of the New Covenant. Only what is stated as binding on us in the New Covenant is binding on us today. And nowhere in the New Covenant is there a command to keep the sabbath, or the dietary laws of the Old Covenant, or the sacrificial system, or the "high holy days" of the Old Covenant, etc. If we must keep any part of the Old Covenant, then we must keep the whole of the Old Covenant, and you just said that the Old Covenant (the first) has ended.

 

[Leaf473]

What is in our hearts is what produces actions. Anyone can say I love God, I love my neighbor, but if the actions aren't there, either is the heart. Luke 6:45 Mat 15:8-9 James 1:22 Rev 22:14

Love definitely produces actions! Does love produce ritualized actions, though?

Bible Gateway passage: James 2:15-16 - New Century Version

A brother or sister in Christ might need clothes or food. If you say to that person, “God be with you! I hope you stay warm and get plenty to eat,” but you do not give what that person needs, your words are worth nothing.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We may practice the 10 without love and miss the point. We may also distort love to our own thing and miss the point just as much. The love I speak of however is the love that Christ speaks of. Of course some may seek to corrupt but malpractice is not a reason why we should give up on love. It's is Christ's commandment to us that NT authors echo quite specifically, so if we want to be faithful to his commandment we need to be able embrace love through all things as we are guided by the Spirit.

Did Christ not speak of love to Him as keeping His commandments? Exo 20:6 John 14:15 John 15:10 so agree that many distort love and corrupt His word by trying to redefine it, instead of trusting in Him and allowing Him to direct our paths Pro 3:5-6 and abiding in Him John 15:10 following in His example 1 John 2:6. The Spirit is not at odds with His commandments 1 John 3:24 His Spirit is the one enabling us to keep them John 14:15-18 we just need to cooperate

If one is or is not practicing the 10 without a changed heart, that will be for God to determine only He can read our hearts and nothing we can hide from Him Ecc 12:13-14. One thing we know for sure, one who does not practice them, loves Him the way He asked 1 John 2:4 Mat 7:23 keeping them leads one to a converted soul Psa 19:7 doing God's will Psa 40:8 Heb 8:10 love to God is more than a feeling, its an action. Just like I can say I love my husband, but if I am not faithful to him, the words are meaningless. Its no different with God.

 

[Doug Brents]

I can agree, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob did not have the covenant at Sinai, but not sure about the rest of the ten.
Deut 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. {keep … : Heb. keep to do them }
2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,


Again I can agree here...Paul speaks of the law of faith. Hebrews begins with ABEL....

I believe the difference is the fleshy commands and judgements were specific to Moses law....
Genealogy, food, etc. But I also believe the law RETAINED law of the nations as well.
***A common righteousness among men to their fellow man.
***The nations before them were cast out for defiling the land
Lev 18:24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled
28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

Below we see law common to all men that was RETAINED IN MOSES LAW

See Abimelech on this as well
Gen 20:3 ¶ But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man’s wife. {a man’s … : Heb. married to an husband }
4 But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
5 Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this. {integrity: or, simplicity, or, sincerity }
6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

Notice anything?
Abimelech says to the Judge of all the earth something very similar to Abraham. "Lord, will you also slay a righteous nation?

Gen. 18:24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

The point I am making here is that while the moral Law of God (do not murder, do not commit adultery, etc.) are unchanged (because they have been restated in as being part of the New Covenant), the keeping of the sabbath, the dietary restrictions, etc. that were unique to the Law of Moses are not unchanged. They were only commands given to the Nation of Israel from Mt Sinai to Jesus to make distinction between them and the nations around them. There is no separation between Jew and Gentile today (the terms are obsolete for all mankind is one again), and so those commands that separated us from them are also done away. Sure, the justification of the keeping of the sabbath dates back to Creation, but that does not make the keeping of it still binding.

 

[ralliann]

The point I am making here is that while the moral Law of God (do not murder, do not commit adultery, etc.) are unchanged (because they have been restated in as being part of the New Covenant), the keeping of the sabbath, the dietary restrictions, etc. that were unique to the Law of Moses are not unchanged. They were only commands given to the Nation of Israel from Mt Sinai to Jesus to make distinction between them and the nations around them. There is no separation between Jew and Gentile today (the terms are obsolete for all mankind is one again), and so those commands that separated us from them are also done away. Sure, the justification of the keeping of the sabbath dates back to Creation, but that does not make the keeping of it still binding.

The fleshy commands are disannulled.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

They are weak, and unprofitable
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.