The "God's Plan" Illusion

[Jeff Saunders]

No that’s not true, because the exact same word is used to describe God’s power, His glory, His reign, and the life we receive in Christ. How do you account for these uses of the word?

It is true if you understand how God uses the ages of progressive revaluation to show us who he is. When scripture says Aionios Yahweh, it’s just saying that God is the God of the age that’s all , it’s not taking anything away from God it’s just saying he is the God of the ages he is also eternal if you use the word properly, no beginning and no end. That’s why at the end of the Lord’s Prayer it says “ for your is the kingdom and glory and power throughout the ages” . God works in ages and if you don’t understand that it’s easy to misunderstand.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

It’s not what the early church believed it’s what Origen believed. Very few people in the early church believed in universal reconciliation and most wrote in opposition to it.

You really need to do some research there are many good books that would disagree with your thoughts.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬-‭32‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Ok I will raise you these from the same book that quoted.-Rom 11:32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that he might have Mercy on all” Is throwing people into eternal torture chamber mercy? Rom 5:18-“ Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation of all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men” There it is again justification for ALL Men , not some but all.- Rom 14:9-11 “ For to this end the Anointed died and lived that he might be Lord of both the living and the dead, And why do you judge your brother? Or , indeed, why do you hold your brother in contempt? For we shall all stand before God’s judgment seat. For it has been written, “ As I live; says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shal gladly, joyfully confess Jesus is Lord” I do believe that Paul wrote these also.

 

[OnceLostButNowFound]

Edit: I don't know if I said this in my previous posts, but I think I mentioned how I'm not like Richard Dawkins, I don't want all religion removed from the world because that's not necessary. I wish God existed, because without him, there would be no objective point to anything, except that we're cosmic accidents. There would be no justice, you could just kill anyone and get a free oblivion sleep at the end.

Well I have good news. He does exist. And He wants a relationship with you.

You call yourself a "D" man, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. You were no accident. You were fearfully and wonderfully made. God knew you before He made anything. He knitted you in your mother's womb. He doesn't want to hurt you, He wants to give you a future and a hope. He wants to spend eternity with you.

The fact you wish for such a thing tells me you yearn for that kind of love. We all do. No matter how hard we may try to deny it.

You'll have to do things on His terms though. There's no getting around that. You need to come to him as a humble child would and to not lean on your own understanding.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Think on that. Jesus will give you all the time you need.

God bless you.

 

[Cerraco]

Well I have good news. He does exist. And He wants a relationship with you.

I should hope he exists, because that would mean that life has an objective purpose.

You call yourself a "D" man, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. You were no accident. You were fearfully and wonderfully made. God knew you before He made anything. He knitted you in your mother's womb. He doesn't want to hurt you, He wants to give you a future and a hope. He wants to spend eternity with you.

That's great and all, and I really hate to keep raining on the parade here, but I'm gonna have to throw out another "what about" moment. What about people who live for like 6 years, then die of cancer, leaving eternally broken parents that didn't deserve that? There are so many variables, where some people never had a chance. What about people born into wars in the Middle East?

You'll have to do things on His terms though. There's no getting around that. You need to come to him as a humble child would and to not lean on your own understanding.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Think on that. Jesus will give you all the time you need.

God bless you.

Like I said before, if I believed in God right now, I would still not be a Christian, given my heavily conflicting views on the Bible and the fact that many Christians have used their own beliefs to hurt others. Entire wars have been fueled by that.

 

[OnceLostButNowFound]

I should hope he exists, because that would mean that life has an objective purpose.

That's great and all, and I really hate to keep raining on the parade here, but I'm gonna have to throw out another "what about" moment. What about people who live for like 6 years, then die of cancer, leaving eternally broken parents that didn't deserve that? There are so many variables, where some people never had a chance. What about people born into wars in the Middle East?

Like I said before, if I believed in God right now, I would still not be a Christian, given my heavily conflicting views on the Bible and the fact that many Christians have used their own beliefs to hurt others. Entire wars have been fueled by that.

God gives and takes away life based on His plan. The six year old in your case would go back up to Him because children and the mentally handicapped are innocent in His eyes. They're not capable of being able to comprehend why we need a savior, so they get to go to Heaven.

We live in a fallen world. There's no getting around that. But He places us in certain situations and reveals Himself to us in His own ways so that we may rise above our situation and overcome the world through Him. He demonstrates His power through His people being loyal to Him and loving others despite the horrible conditions they live in.

I myself have autism. I always felt lesser compared to other people and never felt like I belonged anywhere. Not with "normal" people, not with other "autistic" people. Nobody. I even felt like I was disgusting and not worthy of passing on my genes to the next generation and should never get together with a woman. I held onto this idea that I was an evolutionary dead-end because of something I had no control over, and that there was a good chance I'd die alone.

I developed a hatred for other people due to my self-loathing. Put them all at arms length because I didn't want to feel hurt, while at the same time desperately grasping at any female attention. I'd allow myself to consume porn and fantasize about women to escape my reality. All those things did though, was isolate me and make me hate myself even more.

Then, I decided one day to give Christianity a try. But I was one of those people who wanted Christianity for the benefits it provides without actually living the way God wanted. I still wanted a woman for selfish reasons. I didn't want to "love" other people.

Then I read Genesis for the first time. I always loved the dynamic between a man and a woman, how we're built so different, and how we reproduce through each other. To the point where somewhere deep inside, I didn't believe it was any evolutionary accident. God ended up confirming that once I read Genesis, and I believe that was the first time I actually decided to start listening to Him.

From there, it was a gradual transformation as I read the entirety of the Bible over the course of a year. I grew to better understand the world we live in, and why people act the way they do. Why we're all fixated on certain things. Why there is so much evil in the world, ect.

I eventually grew to understand that the way I was born wasn't an accident or a cruel joke. He purposely made my brain the way it is for a reason and that reason became clearer and clearer over time. More and more of His truth was revealed to me, why we act the way we do, why we stray, and why we're so fascinated by certain aspects of creation.

It got to the point where I actually started going to church, finally made the decision to quit masturbation, and got myself baptized.

Just a few months later, God spoke to me again through a positive review I made of a fanfic I made. He wanted me to make a book. I always loved writing and I also loved romance, but I never felt like I was capable of making a book. But thanks to His teachings, I realized what I was missing. Him.

And now here I am, two years later, preparing to publish a Christian Romance hopefully sometime next year. I had to learn a lot about proper writing and unlearn a lot of bad habits and struggle with self-doubt, but I feel like I'm at a point where I can get it out there. If only so I can get started on my next book.

I still have my struggles, occasionally fall back into sexual sin, and wonder if I'll ever have a wife of my own. Even when we're saved, we still have to deal with our sin nature. But I at least know I have a Father who loves me and will take me home when the time comes. I won't be alone.

 

[Cerraco]

God gives and takes away life based on His plan. The six year old in your case would go back up to Him because children and the mentally handicapped are innocent in His eyes. They're not capable of being able to comprehend why we need a savior, so they get to go to Heaven.

It really seems like there's no "plan". And it's all great that this six-year-old goes back up to heaven, but you still have parents that have to live with that loss forever, some couple that never hurt anyone, and that crap happens to them. It's stuff like this that makes it very, very difficult to believe in some loving god. You have to understand, the whole "that's how it is" and "that's just God being mysterious!!" are not lines of thought that work with logical thinkers. I think the bootstrap-ish "oh well just roll with it and suck it up" garbage is an annoying and lazy way of thinking. Kind of like when a parent says "because I said so!" because they can't think of a better response.

We live in a fallen world. There's no getting around that. But He places us in certain situations and reveals Himself to us in His own ways so that we may rise above our situation and overcome the world through Him. He demonstrates His power through His people being loyal to Him and loving others despite the horrible conditions they live in.

You keep saying that fallen world line, the world was not this perfect place, and then wham, it got bad. Even in the Adam and Eve context, God knew the future before it happened, so... Who watches a movie for the 6th time and gets furious at the ending you already say? Again, there's no sense there. In the case of Job, Job knew God existed, but not everyone has that luxury.

I myself have autism. I always felt lesser compared to other people and never felt like I belonged anywhere. Not with "normal" people, not with other "autistic" people. Nobody. I even felt like I was disgusting and not worthy of passing on my genes to the next generation and should never get together with a woman. I held onto this idea that I was an evolutionary dead-end because of something I had no control over, and that there was a good chance I'd die alone.

I've been tested for autism, and I don't seem to have it, yet I'm probably not too far off from how an autistic person would be. The schools I went were trash, especially middle school. My GOD middle school was the hell of hell of hell, and it was during the edgy idiotic 2000s so that made it worse. Anyone who spends one day in an American school can be became an atheist real easy. Some people are different, some aren't, the chance of me getting married is dangerously low. I just can't see it happening, no matter how optimistic I am. I should have taken the sex opportunities I had back in high school.

From there, it was a gradual transformation as I read the entirety of the Bible over the course of a year. I grew to better understand the world we live in, and why people act the way they do. Why we're all fixated on certain things. Why there is so much evil in the world, ect.

Every single time I try to give the God thing a try, I always find infinitely more and more reasons how the Bible's history cannot be true, and how the logic doesn't come together.

I eventually grew to understand that the way I was born wasn't an accident or a cruel joke. He purposely made my brain the way it is for a reason and that reason became clearer and clearer over time. More and more of His truth was revealed to me, why we act the way we do, why we stray, and why we're so fascinated by certain aspects of creation.

If God exists, he's just chilling up there and putting souls in fetuses? It seems like life happens just because two people humped. Now right there, you said your brain is the way it is because of God, so that would mean that the minds of logical non-believers are also set up by God?

Just a few months later, God spoke to me again through a positive review I made of a fanfic I made. He wanted me to make a book. I always loved writing and I also loved romance, but I never felt like I was capable of making a book. But thanks to His teachings, I realized what I was missing. Him.

Huh? How did God respond to you exactly? What username did he use?

And now here I am, two years later, preparing to publish a Christian Romance hopefully sometime next year. I had to learn a lot about proper writing and unlearn a lot of bad habits and struggle with self-doubt, but I feel like I'm at a point where I can get it out there. If only so I can get started on my next book.

I still have my struggles, occasionally fall back into sexual sin, and wonder if I'll ever have a wife of my own. Even when we're saved, we still have to deal with our sin nature. But I at least know I have a Father who loves me and will take me home when the time comes. I won't be alone.

I would give anything to have the mindset of "knowing" I'm going to heaven, but it seems like I'll just be a boundless infinite thoughtless nothing once death happens, which I'm not happy about. I don't know how many atheists you've come across, but religion has been used to hurt more people than atheism has. Granted, that often falls on the person and not the religion itself.

 

[OnceLostButNowFound]

It really seems like there's no "plan". And it's all great that this six-year-old goes back up to heaven, but you still have parents that have to live with that loss forever, some couple that never hurt anyone, and that crap happens to them. It's stuff like this that makes it very, very difficult to believe in some loving god. You have to understand, the whole "that's how it is" and "that's just God being mysterious!!" are not lines of thought that work with logical thinkers. I think the bootstrap-ish "oh well just roll with it and suck it up" garbage is an annoying and lazy way of thinking. Kind of like when a parent says "because I said so!" because they can't think of a better response.

Because that *is* how it is. All you can do is trust that God is doing His job. Constantly fretting and trying to understand why bad things happen is pointless. We already have the answer.

You keep saying that fallen world line, the world was not this perfect place, and then wham, it got bad. Even in the Adam and Eve context, God knew the future before it happened, so... Who watches a movie for the 6th time and gets furious at the ending you already say? Again, there's no sense there. In the case of Job, Job knew God existed, but not everyone has that luxury.

Again. All of creation is proof of God's existence, so that no one has any excuse to deny His existence.

I've been tested for autism, and I don't seem to have it, yet I'm probably not too far off from how an autistic person would be. The schools I went were trash, especially middle school. My GOD middle school was the hell of hell of hell, and it was during the edgy idiotic 2000s so that made it worse. Anyone who spends one day in an American school can be became an atheist real easy. Some people are different, some aren't, the chance of me getting married is dangerously low. I just can't see it happening, no matter how optimistic I am. I should have taken the sex opportunities I had back in high school.

Be glad you haven't. Pre-marital sex has caused so many problems throughout our history. Society has lied to people like you and me over how sex defines our value as men.

When you have sex with someone who isn't your spouse, a piece of you remains with them for life and can affect future relationships for both of you. It's essentially like gluing yourselves to each other and then pulling each other apart. The adhesive remains.

Not saying it's impossible to have a healthy marriage despite having a sexual history, God helps people overcome their sin. But it's generally easier for both parties to remain virgins until marriage. Within marriage, there's no pressure to perform well, you just focus on loving the other person and work from there. Marriage is a life-long thing after all.

And yeah, public schools are generally cesspools. Especially middle and high where the hormones kick in and people start sinning in increasingly dangerous and cruel ways toward each other and themselves. Doesn't help the school system back then essentially pushed God out of the classroom and made way for more "progressive" ideology.

Every single time I try to give the God thing a try, I always find infinitely more and more reasons how the Bible's history cannot be true, and how the logic doesn't come together.

No offense, but what you call "logic" sounds more like "stubbornness". (Again, another problem I struggle with) By going into the Bible with a closed mindset, you're setting yourself up for failure.

If God exists, he's just chilling up there and putting souls in fetuses? It seems like life happens just because two people humped. Now right there, you said your brain is the way it is because of God, so that would mean that the minds of logical non-believers are also set up by God?

No. There's a difference between autism and choosing not to believe in God. One's a choice, the other isn't.

Huh? How did God respond to you exactly? What username did he use?

Funny.

I would give anything to have the mindset of "knowing" I'm going to heaven, but it seems like I'll just be a boundless infinite thoughtless nothing once death happens, which I'm not happy about. I don't know how many atheists you've come across, but religion has been used to hurt more people than atheism has. Granted, that often falls on the person and not the religion itself.

In a way you're right. The Pharisees used God's law for their own purposes and mistreated and discriminated against those around them. And when Jesus rightly called them out for it, they reviled Him and wanted Him dead. Jesus doesn't tolerate religious hypocrites either.

The fact that even Christians are liable of breaking and trying to abuse God's law I think is more proof that God exists and how much we're all in need of a savior. David was considered closest to God during his time and even then, he committed several grievous sins. We're hopeless without Him.

And your depression over death is also proof of God's existence. We all have eternity etched into our hearts. We're supposed to live forever, but Adam and Eve's disobedience cost us that, as well as brought death into the world. Praise be to God though, He sent His Son to save us.

 

[Cerraco]

Be glad you haven't. Pre-marital sex has caused so many problems throughout our history. Society has lied to people like you and me over how sex defines our value as men.

Sin or otherwise, most women out there want a guy "who's experienced". They would rather deal with someone who might have an STD but rammed it in someone many times than someone with no experience but is absolutely clean. We can say stuff like, "Oh ignore them, don't worry about what people say." but it's not always as simple as that, because the reality is still there. Not worrying about things does not make the problem go away.

My best bet is to lie like no god damn tomorrow about my experiences, because virginity is a terrible thing for a guy, but somehow this beautiful thing for a woman. Thank you, God. These are stupid people you created, this is the dumb world you wanted knowing the risks. If I could go back in time and erase my existence I would, in a heartbeat. I don't need to be here. A lot of people don't need to be here.

Not saying it's impossible to have a healthy marriage despite having a sexual history, God helps people overcome their sin. But it's generally easier for both parties to remain virgins until marriage. Within marriage, there's no pressure to perform well, you just focus on loving the other person and work from there. Marriage is a life-long thing after all.

You know, there's this friend of mine that is also a virgin. She is suffering from something that greatly affects her life, it is possible that it can be cured or treated, but didn't do that because she wanted to God to get rid of it. She thought it was all "part of his plan". Eventually, she grew tired of it not going anyway, now she is a miserable misotheist. She would rather tell an atheist her issues than Christians, because atheists will approach it logically, Christians will just spout stuff about praying more, just waiting it out or other statements that don't really change anything.

I told her that waiting was dangerous, because he might not do anything at all, given his "help who I want when I want" attitude.

And yeah, public schools are generally cesspools. Especially middle and high where the hormones kick in and people start sinning in increasingly dangerous and cruel ways toward each other and themselves. Doesn't help the school system back then essentially pushed God out of the classroom and made way for more "progressive" ideology.

Cesspools? No. These schools are pockets of hell itself manifesting on Earth. I actually think if I went to hell right now, it would just be middle school for all eternity. And every day would be Friday just to taunt me. Didn't help that I was always a lonely only child, grew up as one of the different ones and had painfully bad experiences with women. Something I noticed, is that whenever I'm near a chick I'm interested in, something embarrassing always always always happens, like an embarrassing cloud is over me. That made me stop trying, no need to keep touching a red-hot stove if you'll keep getting burned.

No offense, but what you call "logic" sounds more like "stubbornness". (Again, another problem I struggle with) By going into the Bible with a closed mindset, you're setting yourself up for failure.

Call it whatever you want.

No. There's a difference between autism and choosing not to believe in God. One's a choice, the other isn't.

Uhhhh... what? I wasn't really talking about autism. Did God not give me this way of thinking?

Funny.

Seriously though, how did God comment on whatever fanfic you made?

 

[OnceLostButNowFound]

Sin or otherwise, most women out there want a guy "who's experienced". They would rather deal with someone who might have an STD but rammed it in someone many times than someone with no experience but is absolutely clean. We can say stuff like, "Oh ignore them, don't worry about what people say." but it's not always as simple as that, because the reality is still there. Not worrying about things does not make the problem go away.

Those women are the kind of women you want to avoid. A Godly woman doesn't care about you being a virgin. What's most important is you can love her the way God wants you to love her, and that she does the same for you.

My best bet is to lie like no god damn tomorrow about my experiences, because virginity is a terrible thing for a guy, but somehow this beautiful thing for a woman. Thank you, God. These are stupid people you created, this is the dumb world you wanted knowing the risks. If I could go back in time and erase my existence I would, in a heartbeat. I don't need to be here. A lot of people don't need to be here.

Compared to God, we are *very* stupid. I can agree there. And no, this isn't the world He wanted. The world He has for us is still yet to come.

You know, there's this friend of mine that is also a virgin. She is suffering from something that greatly affects her life, it is possible that it can be cured or treated, but didn't do that because she wanted to God to get rid of it. She thought it was all "part of his plan". Eventually, she grew tired of it not going anyway, now she is a miserable misotheist. She would rather tell an atheist her issues than Christians, because atheists will approach it logically, Christians will just spout stuff about praying more, just waiting it out or other statements that don't really change anything.

Paul talked about a similar ailment he had, and God's answer was: “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness.” 2 Corinthians 12:9.

God doesn't always take away our physical or mental ailments, but he does use said people to do glorious things to show that nothing is impossible for God and that He can be trusted.

And yes, many Christians don't help people the way we ought to help others and do exactly as you say. That doesn't prove God doesn't exist though, that just proves that Christians are still sinners like everyone else.

I told her that waiting was dangerous, because he might not do anything at all, given his "help who I want when I want" attitude.

The problem is, you and she don't trust God to help you in the way He wants to help you. I'm not saying this to be mean, but it's the truth. His ways are better than our ways? Don't believe me? Just look at all the problems in the world.

Uhhhh... what? I wasn't really talking about autism. Did God not give me this way of thinking?

I said the reason why I have autism is because of God. It's a brain difference I have no control of not having, he gave it to me for a reason only He knows.

In your case, your way of thinking is simply a result of our sin nature. Not yours. Ours. Everyone's. We can all choose to follow God or not follow Him. So no, God didn't give you that way of thinking.

Seriously though, how did God comment on whatever fanfic you made?

God didn't comment on my fanfic. I meant he spoke to me not long after reading someone else's comment. Apologies if I wasn't clear.

And it wasn't a big booming loud voice either, it was more of a subtle nudging and pointing to where I needed to go.

Merry Christmas, by the way. I hope you have a great day.

 

[Cerraco]

Those women are the kind of women you want to avoid. A Godly woman doesn't care about you being a virgin. What's most important is you can love her the way God wants you to love her, and that she does the same for you.

I'm not a Christian, and probably won't be, so finding a 'Godly' woman doesn't seem like something that'll happen. Whether the woman is nice or snobby, it is deeply ingrained into people's dumb heads that, "Ew, someone is a virgin? What is wrong with you?!" That's how the world is, especially the U.S. They say that "if you can't see yourself having something, it isn't yours." I'm sorry, no matter how hard I try I just can't see it happening. My best bet is to find... an "alternative" method or to lie my face off. I know it isn't right, but being "pure" at 36 is not attractive, and we don't live in an ideal world.

You also keep saying how the world is a fallen one when it was always trash, and it's humanity's fault and sin and all that. Totally not God's fault, though! That's like creating a rancid trash pile all by yourself, and then blaming the trash entirely for rotting and smelling terrible. A lot of people out there have tried and tried but ended up alone, was that because God decided this? If so, it's strange that there are all these broken marriages out there

Compared to God, we are *very* stupid. I can agree there. And no, this isn't the world He wanted. The world He has for us is still yet to come.

It's not the world he wanted but the world he knew would exist when he made it. I will give you credit, God or not, there seems to be more good in the world than bad, but even that has an explanation behind it. A lot of people don't do evil things simply so they don't get punished.

I said the reason why I have autism is because of God. It's a brain difference I have no control of not having, he gave it to me for a reason only He knows.

In your case, your way of thinking is simply a result of our sin nature. Not yours. Ours. Everyone's. We can all choose to follow God or not follow Him. So no, God didn't give you that way of thinking.

Okay, so wait... your autism is a result of God, but my sense of logic is all sin? Why is it such a sin to put 2 and 2 together? You need to take a step back and understand how one-sided that sounds. You Christians really like to blame sin, sin, sin, sin for everything negative. Not all atheists exist because they're evil, it's just because one line of thinking makes more sense than another. There are also more specific things going on with people than "it's just sin, guys".

God didn't comment on my fanfic. I meant he spoke to me not long after reading someone else's comment. Apologies if I wasn't clear.

And it wasn't a big booming loud voice either, it was more of a subtle nudging and pointing to where I needed to go.

Alright, that's fine. Power to you since you say it helped you out big time.

Merry Christmas, by the way. I hope you have a great day.

Likewise.

 

[OnceLostButNowFound]

I'm not a Christian, and probably won't be,

I sincerely pray you will be.

so finding a 'Godly' woman doesn't seem like something that'll happen. Whether the woman is nice or snobby, it is deeply ingrained into people's dumb heads that, "Ew, someone is a virgin? What is wrong with you?!" That's how the world is, especially the U.S. They say that "if you can't see yourself having something, it isn't yours." I'm sorry, no matter how hard I try I just can't see it happening. My best bet is to find... an "alternative" method or to lie my face off. I know it isn't right, but being "pure" at 36 is not attractive, and we don't live in an ideal world.

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. Romans 12:2

Also, before you can consider going for a woman, you need to put God first and foremost in your life. People can and will leave you, hurt you, ect. But God won't. Through prayer and reading His word, we develop an unbreakable bond with our creator, and He will also guide you on how to become a man for a potential wife one day. One part of that being that you spend time with other men. Older men preferably who are already married and will guide you.

You also keep saying how the world is a fallen one when it was always trash, and it's humanity's fault and sin and all that. Totally not God's fault, though! That's like creating a rancid trash pile all by yourself, and then blaming the trash entirely for rotting and smelling terrible. A lot of people out there have tried and tried but ended up alone, was that because God decided this? If so, it's strange that there are all these broken marriages out there

There are several reasons why so many broken marriages exist. The main reason being people don't treat marriage as it should be. A life-long commitment where you both go through the bad times together as well as the good. Other reasons include marrying out of lust, convenience, money, ect.

It's not the world he wanted but the world he knew would exist when he made it. I will give you credit, God or not, there seems to be more good in the world than bad, but even that has an explanation behind it. A lot of people don't do evil things simply so they don't get punished.

I think part of the problem is that you don't see beyond that explanation. God is the ultimate source of good, and subtly influences even nonbelievers to do good in the world.

Okay, so wait... your autism is a result of God, but my sense of logic is all sin? Why is it such a sin to put 2 and 2 together? You need to take a step back and understand how one-sided that sounds. You Christians really like to blame sin, sin, sin, sin for everything negative. Not all atheists exist because they're evil, it's just because one line of thinking makes more sense than another. There are also more specific things going on with people than "it's just sin, guys".

My autism is a handicap. Given to me by God to show the world His glory through me overcoming despite my limitations. Your sense of logic is something we all carry.

There's nothing wrong with having a sense of logic, by the way. It's through logic that God helped me understand His character. When you look at all the people throughout the Old Testament, you see similar behaviors to people nowadays. They constantly turned away from God, intermingled with foreign countries, and bringing in their false religions and pagan practices. Nowadays we even have child sacrifice and call ourselves "progressive" and "pro-choice" for doing those things.

It's through logic He helped me better understand the world too. When you look at everything around you, don't you think everything is way too meticulously organized to be just a coincidence? Ecosystems are perfectly designed to house every kind of creature, the Earth is built perfectly so that we don't spin out of control or fly into the sun, and we're the ONLY species to have accomplished the things we did, such as being able to make machines to help us surpass our natural limitations such as planes and submarines. We've been able to make it into space. The fact we can even perceive the idea of a higher power and have an in-depth conversation is all proof that none of what we're looking at happened "by chance".

Alright, that's fine. Power to you since you say it helped you out big time.

Not to me. Power to Jesus. Without Him, I am nothing.

 

[Cerraco]

I sincerely pray you will be.

Wouldn't I have to believe things in the Bible that were pretty much proven wrong? Do I have to believe in Adam and Eve and all that..?

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. Romans 12:2

I'm sorry man, I just don't understand this. You Christians say that God created the world to spread his love or whatever, but knew how broken the world would be but created it anyway? I know I've said this a thousand times, but no matter how hard I try, I can't see the point in all that. As disgusting as the world is, the dumb people around me, its apparent flaws, its horrible stupid made up norms - these are things I know exist. As for God and heaven, I do not know they exist, I've never seen them, and they do not conform to world's laws of reality. NDE stories are the closest we have to knowing of the afterlife.

Also, before you can consider going for a woman, you need to put God first and foremost in your life. People can and will leave you, hurt you, ect. But God won't. Through prayer and reading His word, we develop an unbreakable bond with our creator, and He will also guide you on how to become a man for a potential wife one day. One part of that being that you spend time with other men. Older men preferably who are already married and will guide you.

This is not bad advice in the slightest, but it's very likely I will give up on the whole finding a woman thing. I'm sure there are women on this forum reading my posts right now thinking, "Yikes, I'm glad I'm not hooked up with that guy." Like I said, every single time I'm near a woman I'm interested in, something embarrassing happens at that very moment. I swear to you, I'm not exaggerating this. Is that God keeping this stuff away from me? Maybe that's the universe going, "It's best that you don't have this." If something bad happens enough times, you instinctively avoid it.

There are several reasons why so many broken marriages exist. The main reason being people don't treat marriage as it should be. A life-long commitment where you both go through the bad times together as well as the good. Other reasons include marrying out of lust, convenience, money, ect.

Looks seem to be the biggest factor, at least for the people I've known.

My autism is a handicap. Given to me by God to show the world His glory through me overcoming despite my limitations. Your sense of logic is something we all carry.

There's nothing wrong with having a sense of logic, by the way. It's through logic that God helped me understand His character. When you look at all the people throughout the Old Testament, you see similar behaviors to people nowadays. They constantly turned away from God, intermingled with foreign countries, and bringing in their false religions and pagan practices. Nowadays we even have child sacrifice and call ourselves "progressive" and "pro-choice" for doing those things.

You said something earlier about how my sense of logic was sin, and I'm assuming you meant the specific parts where I don't believe in the Bible. I don't know what you're talking about with the child sacrifice thing.

It's through logic He helped me better understand the world too. When you look at everything around you, don't you think everything is way too meticulously organized to be just a coincidence? Ecosystems are perfectly designed to house every kind of creature, the Earth is built perfectly so that we don't spin out of control or fly into the sun, and we're the ONLY species to have accomplished the things we did, such as being able to make machines to help us surpass our natural limitations such as planes and submarines. We've been able to make it into space. The fact we can even perceive the idea of a higher power and have an in-depth conversation is all proof that none of what we're looking at happened "by chance".

I think about this all the time. I wonder how Joan of Arc could have done what she did and the visions she saw. I wonder how the moon always perfectly covers the Sun during a solar eclipse. A pure atheist would say something like we "got lucky". As for the all inventions and technology you mentioned, this is because people leaned on pure logic and science. Did God really expect every single human to believe in him? Is that what he wants? If we lived in a world with little to no science and just went all in on God, humanity would not have gone as far as it has.

I was something the world didn't care for, I didn't need to be made, and I'm only here because two people humped.

 

[Aaron112]

Wouldn't I have to believe things in the Bible that were pretty much proven wrong?

Nope. Not at all. Believe all the things The Creator Himself Reveals.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You really need to do some research there are many good books that would disagree with your thoughts.

I have studied it as well as the writings of the early church and I’ve seen the cherry picked quotes of the early church writers and I’ve also seen the same authors teaching eternal torment.

 

[BNR32FAN]

When scripture says Aionios Yahweh, it’s just saying that God is the God of the age that’s all , it’s not taking anything away from God it’s just saying he is the God of the ages he is also eternal if you use the word properly, no beginning and no end.

So you’re saying here that if you use the word properly it can mean eternal. So what’s the Greek word for eternal if aeon and aeonios doesn’t mean eternal?

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is true if you understand how God uses the ages of progressive revaluation to show us who he is. When scripture says Aionios Yahweh, it’s just saying that God is the God of the age that’s all , it’s not taking anything away from God it’s just saying he is the God of the ages he is also eternal if you use the word properly, no beginning and no end. That’s why at the end of the Lord’s Prayer it says “ for your is the kingdom and glory and power throughout the ages” . God works in ages and if you don’t understand that it’s easy to misunderstand.

Oh and you never did explain what the death of a soul means as well.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Rom 11:32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that he might have Mercy on all” Is throwing people into eternal torture chamber mercy?

No throwing them into the lake of fire is not merciful unless He died on the cross and provided a way for them to be saved.

Rom 5:18-“ Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation of all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men

Amen life is offered to all men, but not everyone is willing to receive it now are they?

Rom 14:9-11 “ For to this end the Anointed died and lived that he might be Lord of both the living and the dead, And why do you judge your brother? Or , indeed, why do you hold your brother in contempt? For we shall all stand before God’s judgment seat. For it has been written, “ As I live; says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shal gladly, joyfully confess Jesus is Lord”

Yeah every knee shall bend and every tongue confess but it doesn’t say that they will all enter the kingdom of heaven, does it?

““Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭21‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

It doesn’t matter that they will confess that He is Lord, what matters is whether or not they knew Him.

Here’s a few more passages that refute universal reconciliation.

““Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

There are few who find it, Jesus makes it clear that not everyone finds it.

“The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26‬:‭24‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Why would it be good for Judas if he had not been born if he is destined to eternal life in heaven?

“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭28‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Why should we fear that God will destroy our soul if He isn’t going to destroy anyone’s soul? Revelation 20:13-15 tells us why.

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20‬:‭13‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Your interpretation is only supported by cherry picking certain verses and ignoring others. In order for our doctrines to be sound they must line up with all scripture, not just bits & pieces of it.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

I have studied it as well as the writings of the early church and I’ve seen the cherry picked quotes of the early church writers and I’ve also seen the same authors teaching eternal torment.

All I do is most likely the same thing you do, because I don’t speak Greek, is I read and watch lectures from people who are smarter than me and I see what matches up with the nature and character of God and those who do not I file away as someone who didn’t understand God and are still learning. I understand God as Jesus taught, as a loving Father in whom there is no darkness, a Father who loves his creation and who would not create anything that did not serve his ultimate purpose of having a creation that worships him out of free will love . Your view of God causes you to be ok with ECT I am not.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

So you’re saying here that if you use the word properly it can mean eternal. So what’s the Greek word for eternal if aeon and aeonios doesn’t mean eternal?

First off what is your definition of eternal? Mine is that eternal means no beginning and no end. Only God is eternal all else is creation and cannot be eternal. What Gods creation is is never ending life we as Gods creation are never ending we are not eternal. If you look at how Aion and Aionios is used , and you translate as age or pertaining to the age , every scripture makes sense no need to make it say world or anything else.