The Crucifixion Not Friday

[das grosse schwein]

It reeks of Dunning-Kruger

I didn't even know of the Dunning-Kruger effect until now. Now that I know what it is, I have to say Revelation Lad fits that well. Thanks for your input.

 

[Revelation Lad]

It reeks of Dunning-Kruger

Yes it does. When someone does the research and provides the information to others who are unwilling to check for themselves, those who are afraid facts will contradict cherished beliefs invariably justify their inaction as unnecessary. They know it already despite not knowing and can't be bothered to investigate.

Because not only are certain of what they know, they're even more certain of what others don't know.

 

[das grosse schwein]

REVELATION LAD writes:
I never admit I'm wrong? I'm the first to do so, when it happens. Still waiting for you to admit when you're wrong.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
Well, you can begin by admitting your error that SABBATA was used as a singular in Acts 17:2.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Every answer I give is supported.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
No, many of your answers are not supported, Your assertion that the SABBATA in Acts 17:2 was used as a singular SABBATH was not supported. When shown to be wrong, you refused to admit it and changed the subject.

REVELATION LAD writes:
You may disagree with what others say, but it's nit my opinion. For example your statements about sabbata in Exodus 16. Septuagint scholars, not me, say it is a transliteration. Your claim that it is a transliteration based on choosing the plural of Sabbath is utter nonsense. It completely ignores what any transliteration is.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
I have already admitted SABBAT is a transliteration, but it is a transliteration with the A added at the end to make it plural. SABBAT is a direct transliteration from the Hebrew Sabbath and the Greeks in the LXX added the A to make it plural. It is still a transliteration but it is in the plural, which means we shouldn’t be surprised when we hear that the plural Sabbath in the Greek New Testament is sometimes used for a single sabbath day, just as it was in the Pentateuch with the plural SABBATA in Exodus 16 for example. That usage of Sabbath had its origins in the LXX when it was transliterated from the Hebrew and an A was added at the end of the word.

Greek grammar declares SABBATA is a plural, regardless of whether it is a transliteration of not. It is a plural, and in both the Old and New Testaments, SABBATA, although plural grammatically, can be used in the singular as well. Explain to me why SABBATA, a plural noun, is used in the singular in Exodus 16:23,25, and 26.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Then you invent history which, as many of your positions, is contrary to actual history.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
Not true, I did not invent history. You did. You claim the LXX translators created SABBATA because the Gentiles did not have a word for Sabbath. That is a half-truth. The Greeks originally did not have a word for Sabbath, but Jewish proselytizers introduced the SABBAT (transliterated from Hebrew SABBAT) into Greek society and many Gentiles became converts to the Jewish religion. But once the Greek Jews embraced SABBAT the bi-lingual Hebrew-Greek translators took it upon themselves to translate the Hebrew into the Greek. They transliterated SABBAT in the Greek SABBAT and added an A to make it plural and used it for singular as well as plural usages.

REVELATION LAD
I don't know everything. But I'm willing to learn and recognize when I don't know and look to learn.

Perfect example is sabatta. Like you I assumed a Greek origin. But it turns out to be a transliteration of the Hebrew which makes good sense since the Sabbath is Jewish.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
I never believed SABBATA was of Greek origin. I knew SABBAT was a Hebrew word. But it became a Greek word when it was introduced into the Greek language by Jewish proselytizers after the Babylonian Captivity. The chicken and the egg, What came first, the LXX or the proselytizers? Which do you believe came first?

REVELATION LAD
That explains why sabbata is the only word used in the Pentateuch. The LXX sabbata is how the Sabbath came to the Greek,

SABER TRUTH TIGER
This is not true, The LXX was written to fill a need in the Grecian Empire – a translation from the Hebrew for Greek converts to the new religion. If the word SABBAT had not existed until the LXX was written, the Greeks wouldn’t know what SABBAT was when they read it for the first time. When they read the LXX for the first time, in their language, they understood it as SABBAT because they were already converts to the Jewish religion.

REVELATION LAD
both linguistically and practically. Gentiles didn't observe the Sabbath so there wasn't a word for it.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The Jewish converts to Judaism knew what the Sabbath was. The rest of the Greek world could probably care less and many of them may never even had heard of it. But the proselytes certainly knew as the Sabbath is a major feature of the Jewish religion.

Revelation Lad
You can describe working and rest but there is no term to describe or refer to what it is. Hence the need to transliterate from the Hebrew.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The proselytizers knew what the Sabbath was and they made it known to the Greeks, many of whom converted to the new religion and they met in synagogues in the Greek and Roman Empires and observed the Sabbath when the Jews kept the Sabbath. The LXX was written to fill a need – not to create a need.

Revelation Lad
Once you understand the process of how it works you come full circle and understand the practice of calling Nisan 15, and all days of no work/meeting Sabbath.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
You truly have no understanding how Judaism entered Europe. It began at the end of the Babylonian Captivity. There is no coming full circle. The LXX was created to fill a need and to win converts. SABBAT would be understood by converts to the new religion.

 

[das grosse schwein]

AI Overview SABBATA

Yes, "SABBATA" in the LXX (Septuagint) is considered a transliteration, meaning it is a direct, phonetic representation of the Hebrew word "Shabbat" into Greek, essentially just writing the Hebrew word using Greek letters.

Explanation:

• Transliteration vs. Translation:

While a translation would attempt to convey the meaning of a word in the target language, a transliteration simply tries to represent the sounds of the original word as closely as possible using the letters of the new language.

• Hebrew "Shabbat" to Greek "Sabbata":

By writing "SABBATA" in Greek, the translators of the LXX were essentially trying to capture the sound of the Hebrew "Shabbat" without attempting to find a fully equivalent Greek word with the same meaning.

AI Overview

"SABBATA" is considered a Greek plural because it is the plural form of the Greek word "SABBATON" which means "Sabbath," and in the context of the New Testament, it often refers to multiple Sabbath days, hence the plural usage; essentially, "SABBATA" means "Sabbaths.".

Key points:

• Origin: The word "SABBATON" itself comes from the Hebrew word "Shabbat" which means "rest."
• Pluralization: In Greek, adding an "A" at the end often signifies a plural form.
• • Interpretation: While "SABBATON" can technically be used in the singular, "SABBATA" is usually interpreted as referring to multiple Sabbaths.

AI Overview
"SABBATA" in the LXX is considered a plural form, even though it is often used to refer to a single Sabbath day; this is because it is derived from the Hebrew "shabbat" which is plural in form, and the Greek translation adopted this usage, sometimes using the singular "sabbaton" as well depending on context.


Key points about "SABBATA":

• Technically plural: The Greek word "sabbata" is grammatically plural.
  
  
  
• Used for single Sabbath: Despite being plural, "sabbata" is frequently used to refer to a single Sabbath day in the LXX.
  
  
  
• Aramaic influence: This usage might be influenced by the Aramaic "shabbatā" which is a singular form but appears as a plural in Greek.

 

[das grosse schwein]

Revelation Lad, you claim you admit you are wrong when someone points it out to you so here it is. Were you in error when you claimed that SABBATA (a plural) in Acts 17:2 was used as a singular? You said it was three sabbath DAYS and the Greek says it was three SABBATHS. Do you admit you were wrong there?

What is your comment on the LXX in Exodus 16:23, 25, 26 where SABBATA (a plural) is used as a singular? Do you admit a plural Sabbath can be used as a singular Sabbath, not only in the LXX, but also the New Testament?

 

[das grosse schwein]

REVELATION LAD writes:
Utterly amazing. You have people observing the Sabbath without knowing the name.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
You can’t read a hoot Rev. Never did I write that people observed the Sabbath without knowing its name. You have poor reading comprehension skills. I wrote that Jewish proselytizers went into the Grecian and Roman Empires after the Babylonian Captivity and there won converts to Judaism and there the Gentiles who became Jews observed the Jewish Sabbath. The Greeks who were now called Jews called the singular Jewish Sabbath SABBAT from the Hebrew word. They then added the A at the end and that made it plural in the Greek.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Just like you claim the transliteration was chosen from the plural form of the word Sabbath.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
I did no such thing. You can’t read English. I wrote expressly that SABBATH in Hebrew was singular. It was then transliterated into the Greek and the letter A was added at the end to make it into a PLURAL. You must just skim my articles because you certainly aren’t getting this mush from me.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Your theory ignores the etymology which states the origin of the Greek word was the Hebrew. How is that possible? Transliteration. Exactly as the Septuagint scholars state.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
I’ve already admitted this, many times over. The Hebrew word for Sabbath was singular and it was transliterated into the Greek SABBAT and the A was added to the end which made it plural.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Here is a link to Acts 17:2. As you can see the only translations which have Sabbaths are those that do not includes "days." The Greek is three Sabbaths days.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
Not true. You have been corrected on this before but here it is again. In the Greek interlinear at Bible Hub, it does not have “three Sabbath days” it has “three Sabbaths”. You are beginning to sound desperate.

REVELATION LAD
Sabbaths days? Makes no sense.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Three Sabbaths in the original Greek New Testament.

REVELATION LAD
Those that keep the days translate as Sabbath singular.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Yes, some English translators opt for “three Sabbath days” but the original Greek says “Three Sabbaths”.

REVELATION LAD
Those that have Sabbaths must fail to include days.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
If you translate it literally, it is “three Sabbaths” but if you translate it loosely you will make Sabbath singular and add the word “days”. But SABBATA is plural,

REVELATION LAD
According to how the NETS handled your verses from Exodus, Acts 17:2 would be transliterated "three Sabbata days."

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Either your source or you are in error. If Acts 17:2 was transliterated into English, it would be “three SABBATA” instead of “three Sabbata days”.

REVELATION LAD
Anyone who compared Acts with the Greek Pentateuch would see why Luke chose that particular composition.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
If you compare Acts 17:2 with the Greek Pentateuch, you will see SABBATA is used only once in the entire New Testament yet in the Pentateuch it was used 23 times. SABBATA is plural in but it can be used for singular.

REVELATION LAD
There is no good reason not to say "three Sabbaths." Adding the word "days" only confuses the passage, unless Luke has the LXX in mind.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
I disagree with you here. I have no problem with either “three Sabbaths” or “three Sabbath days”. My only concern here is which one follows the Greek most closely?

REVELATION LAD
Why not stick with the actual Greek text and compare to the LXX? Isn't that what Gentile Christians would do?

SABER TRUTH TIGER
That’s what one should do. When you compare the actual Greek New Testament with the LXX you will see that SABBATA is mentioned only once while in the LXX it is written 44 times. The Greek New Testament has other spellings for the SABBATH. Three hundred years had passed since the translation of the LXX and over that time there were some minor spelling changes.

The Artificial Intelligence search on Google had a hit that suggested SABBATA may have been borrowed from the Aramaic “shabbata”. So, I need to do further research and see what is more likely, that Sabbata came from the Hebrew or the Aramaic. But what Aramaic translation would they have used? I’m open to suggestions.

Bottom line though. You have been unable to refute my claim that plural sabbaths can be used as a singular word so sabbaths can mean sabbath in some cases. Like in Matthew 28:1 "After the Sabbaths" can be translated as "After the Sabbath". You need to keep Exodus 16:23, 25, 26, and 29 in mind as well as Numbers 15:32 when considering whether a plural SABBATA can refer to a single Sabbath.

 

[Revelation Lad]

REVELATION LAD writes:
Utterly amazing. You have people observing the Sabbath without knowing the name.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
You can’t read a hoot Rev. Never did I write that people observed the Sabbath without knowing its name. You have poor reading comprehension skills. I wrote that Jewish proselytizers went into the Grecian and Roman Empires after the Babylonian Captivity and there won converts to Judaism and there the Gentiles who became Jews observed the Jewish Sabbath. The Greeks who were now called Jews called the singular Jewish Sabbath SABBAT from the Hebrew word. They then added the A at the end and that made it plural in the Greek.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Just like you claim the transliteration was chosen from the plural form of the word Sabbath.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
I did no such thing. You can’t read English. I wrote expressly that SABBATH in Hebrew was singular. It was then transliterated into the Greek and the letter A was added at the end to make it into a PLURAL. You must just skim my articles because you certainly aren’t getting this mush from me.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Your theory ignores the etymology which states the origin of the Greek word was the Hebrew. How is that possible? Transliteration. Exactly as the Septuagint scholars state.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
I’ve already admitted this, many times over. The Hebrew word for Sabbath was singular and it was transliterated into the Greek SABBAT and the A was added to the end which made it plural.

REVELATION LAD writes:
Here is a link to Acts 17:2. As you can see the only translations which have Sabbaths are those that do not includes "days." The Greek is three Sabbaths days.

SABER TRUTH TIGER responds:
Not true. You have been corrected on this before but here it is again. In the Greek interlinear at Bible Hub, it does not have “three Sabbath days” it has “three Sabbaths”. You are beginning to sound desperate.

REVELATION LAD
Sabbaths days? Makes no sense.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Three Sabbaths in the original Greek New Testament.

REVELATION LAD
Those that keep the days translate as Sabbath singular.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Yes, some English translators opt for “three Sabbath days” but the original Greek says “Three Sabbaths”.

REVELATION LAD
Those that have Sabbaths must fail to include days.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
If you translate it literally, it is “three Sabbaths” but if you translate it loosely you will make Sabbath singular and add the word “days”. But SABBATA is plural,

REVELATION LAD
According to how the NETS handled your verses from Exodus, Acts 17:2 would be transliterated "three Sabbata days."

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Either your source or you are in error. If Acts 17:2 was transliterated into English, it would be “three SABBATA” instead of “three Sabbata days”.

REVELATION LAD
Anyone who compared Acts with the Greek Pentateuch would see why Luke chose that particular composition.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
If you compare Acts 17:2 with the Greek Pentateuch, you will see SABBATA is used only once in the entire New Testament yet in the Pentateuch it was used 23 times. SABBATA is plural in but it can be used for singular.

REVELATION LAD
There is no good reason not to say "three Sabbaths." Adding the word "days" only confuses the passage, unless Luke has the LXX in mind.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
I disagree with you here. I have no problem with either “three Sabbaths” or “three Sabbath days”. My only concern here is which one follows the Greek most closely?

REVELATION LAD
Why not stick with the actual Greek text and compare to the LXX? Isn't that what Gentile Christians would do?

SABER TRUTH TIGER
That’s what one should do. When you compare the actual Greek New Testament with the LXX you will see that SABBATA is mentioned only once while in the LXX it is written 44 times. The Greek New Testament has other spellings for the SABBATH. Three hundred years had passed since the translation of the LXX and over that time there were some minor spelling changes.

The Artificial Intelligence search on Google had a hit that suggested SABBATA may have been borrowed from the Aramaic “shabbata”. So, I need to do further research and see what is more likely, that Sabbata came from the Hebrew or the Aramaic. But what Aramaic translation would they have used? I’m open to suggestions.

Bottom line though. You have been unable to refute my claim that plural sabbaths can be used as a singular word so sabbaths can mean sabbath in some cases. Like in Matthew 28:1 "After the Sabbaths" can be translated as "After the Sabbath". You need to keep Exodus 16:23, 25, 26, and 29 in mind as well as Numbers 15:32 when considering whether a plural SABBATA can refer to a single Sabbath.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
I’ve already admitted this, many times over. The Hebrew word for Sabbath was singular and it was transliterated into the Greek SABBAT and the A was added to the end which made it plural.

Reply:
There is no evidence sabbat existed in either the LXX or the NT.

σάββατα (sabbata) is the accusative neuter plural, but σάββατον (sabbaton, not sabbat) is the accusative neuter singular.

You do not add "α" to sabbat to make sabbata plural. You change the ending of ον to α - sabbaton becomes sabbata.

There is no evidence LXX transliterated sabbaton (or sabbat). In fact, the Greek Pentateuch never uses a singular in any case. Every use is with words considered to be plural.

If you introduced sabbata into the Greek language as a transliterated word, you could reason sabbaton should be the singular. Regardless, your claim that sabbat was made plural by adding "α" is not how the Greek language works.

If what you say is true, sabbat should be the singular, but that word does not exist in either the LXX or the NT.

Instead, we find sabbaton. This means either (1) sabbaton, not sabbat, was transliterated but changed to the plural form (2) sabbata was transliterated and changed to sabbaton when singular.

 

[Revelation Lad]

You are right about Acts 17:2. I was wrong. The literal Greek is Sabbaths (plural) three (plural) he reasoned (singular). The English translations I cited make Sabbaths singlar to match the verb, which they expected to be plural.

 

[das grosse schwein]

You are right about Acts 17:2. I was wrong. The literal Greek is Sabbaths (plural) three (plural) he reasoned (singular). The English translations I cited make Sabbaths singlar to match the verb, which they expected to be plural.

Do you admit the grammatical plural in the Sabbath can be referred to as a singular Sabbath in the New Testament text?

 

[das grosse schwein]

I have grown weary of discussing the same topic over and over again. So, this will hopefully be my last on this subject. I am posting the plural Sabbaths that are rendered into the singular in the KJV so others who have come so far can review the evidence and maybe decide for themselves.

THE SABBATH PLURAL NEW TESTAMENT

* 1. Matthew 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat. DNP PLURAL
----------------------------------------------------------------

1. Matthew 12:10 And a man was there whose hand was withered. And they questioned Jesus, asking, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”—so that they might accuse Him. DNP PLURAL
2. Matthew 12:11 And He said to them, “What man is there among you who has a sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold of it and lift it out? DNP PLURAL
3. Matthew 12:12 How much more valuable then is a man than a sheep! So then, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” DNP PLURAL
4. Matthew 28:1 Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave. GNP PLURAL
5. Mark 1:21 They *went into Capernaum; and immediately on the Sabbath He entered the synagogue and began to teach. DNP PLURAL
6. Mark 2:23* And it happened that He was passing through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples began to make their way along while picking the heads of grain. (-the) DNP PLURAL
7. Mark 2:24 The Pharisees were saying to Him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” DNP PLURAL
8. Mark 3:2 They were watching Him to see if He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him. DNP PLURAL
9. Mark 3:4 And He *said to them, “Is it lawful to do good or to do harm on the Sabbath, to save a life or to kill?” But they kept silent. DNP PLURAL
10. Luke 4:16 And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. GNP PLURAL
11. Luke 4:31 And He came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and He was teaching them on the Sabbath; DNP PLURAL
12. Luke 6:2 But some of the Pharisees said, “Why do you do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” DNP PLURAL
13. Acts 13:14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. GNP PLURAL
14. Acts 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to a riverside, where we were supposing that there would be a place of prayer; and we sat down and began speaking to the women who had assembled. GNP PLURAL

.

 

[das grosse schwein]

Here are the scriptures where the plural Sabbath is translated as week. Revelation Lad wanted to discuss this earlier in this thread so here they are. I will await his comments.

SABBATHS (PLURAL) translated as week

Mark 16:9 and Luke 18:12 are singular, the others are plural. Literally “sabbaths”. So, seven times the KJV word for week comes from the plural sabbaths.

1. Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2. Mark 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
3. Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. (Singular)
4. Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
5. Luke 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
6. John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
7. John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
8. Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
9. • 1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

 

[das grosse schwein]

Here are the scriptures where the plural Sabbath is translated as week. Revelation Lad wanted to discuss this earlier in this thread so here they are. I will await his comments.

SABBATHS (PLURAL) translated as week

Mark 16:9 and Luke 18:12 are singular, the others are plural. Literally “sabbaths”. So, seven times the KJV word for week comes from the plural sabbaths.

1. Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2. Mark 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
3. Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. (Singular)
4. Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
5. Luke 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
6. John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
7. John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
8. Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
9. • 1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

I believe Luke 18:12 can be translated literally, as I fast twice a Sabbath. The pious, self-righteous Pharisee thought it was a big deal, skipping two meals on the Sabbath and I don't believe it necessarily means two days out of the week. It is true that early in Church history both devout Christians and devout Jews fasted two days the week, but I don't believe that is the case here. But when the word one or first is used with the "day of the sabbaths" I believe it is a Palestinian idiom for first of the week because there is evidence, from the second century CE that the Jews counted "first of the sabbaths", "second of the sabbaths" "third of the sabbaths" etc. Sunday would be the first day of the Sabbaths, i.e. "the first day of the week".

I can't prove it though. Like I have said before, I don't know much Greek, but I do defer to many that do. I can't speak it with authority, but I must rely on the scholarship of others. It is possible "I fast twice a Sabbath (singular) can mean "I fast twice a week" as some scholars claim as there is evidence that some Jews and some Christians fasted two days out of the week, but I disagree respectfully.

 

[das grosse schwein]

If you have grown weary, why don’t you stop filling the page with things which have little or nothing do with the topic you invited me to discuss?

You threw in the towel on that subject. I'm weary of debating the plural Sabbaths being used as a singular because we are making no progress and readers are growing weary of reading the same ole same ole.

Is Nisan 15 referred to as the Sabbath?

Not this again. I have said yes to this question so many times it hurts to have to keep repeating myself. You can't read with comprehension.

Based upon our discussions do you agree the LXX calls Nisan 15 a Sabbath and places the waving of the Omer on the day after the weekly Sabbath?

I have discussed this with you ad nauseam. See post # 246 on this thread. This topic is closed with me.

 

[Revelation Lad]

You threw in the towel on that subject. I'm weary of debating the plural Sabbaths being used as a singular because we are making no progress and readers are growing weary of reading the same ole same ole.

Not this again. I have said yes to this question so many times it hurts to have to keep repeating myself. You can't read with comprehension.

I have discussed this with you ad nauseam. See post # 246 on this thread. This topic is closed with me.

Just like your antics on BHSE. Here then is a summary of what you accept.

1. Nisan 15 is a Sabbath.
2. Firstfruits is observed after the weekly Sabbath.
3. Identifying Firstfruits as the LXX as the day after the Sabbaths is correct.

 

[das grosse schwein]

Just like your antics on BHSE. Here then is a summary of what you accept.

1. Nisan 15 is a Sabbath.
2. Firstfruits is observed after the weekly Sabbath.
3. Identifying Firstfruits as the LXX as the day after the Sabbaths is correct.

I'm not discussing this with you anymore. You had your chance. If you want, discuss whether the "first (or one) of the Sabbaths" means the "first day of the week". There are others watching and they want the debate to move forward to this topic.

 

[JSRG]

I believe Luke 18:12 can be translated literally, as I fast twice a Sabbath. The pious, self-righteous Pharisee thought it was a big deal, skipping two meals on the Sabbath and I don't believe it necessarily means two days out of the week. It is true that early in Church history both devout Christians and devout Jews fasted two days the week, but I don't believe that is the case here. But when the word one or first is used with the "day of the sabbaths" I believe it is a Palestinian idiom for first of the week because there is evidence, from the second century CE that the Jews counted "first of the sabbaths", "second of the sabbaths" "third of the sabbaths" etc. Sunday would be the first day of the Sabbaths, i.e. "the first day of the week".

I can't prove it though. Like I have said before, I don't know much Greek, but I do defer to many that do. I can't speak it with authority, but I must rely on the scholarship of others. It is possible "I fast twice a Sabbath (singular) can mean "I fast twice a week" as some scholars claim as there is evidence that some Jews and some Christians fasted two days out of the week, but I disagree respectfully.

In regards to why we know that "first of the Sabbaths" (e.g. μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων as found in Luke 24:1) means first day of the week, this is a pretty useful page (no longer available, but archived).

The short summary: We can also see the usage of "first/second/third/etc. of the Sabbaths" constructions elsewhere that must logically refer to days of the week. In the LXX, there is before several of the Psalms a statement that they were read on the "first of the Sabbaths" and "second of the Sabbaths" or "fourth of the Sabbaths". And we know this refers to days of the week because the Talmud gives a list of psalms that were read on the different days of the week in the Temple (this is obviously referring to former practice, as the Temple had been destroyed by the time of the Talmud's compilation, though the Temple existed at the time of the LXX's translation) that corresponds exactly with the ones in the LXX. Lastly, the Didache--one of the earliest Christian writings we have--uses this construction (second of the Sabbaths, fifth of the Sabbaths, fourth of the Sabbaths) to refer to fasting and is clearly referring to days of the week. Finally, its usage in the New Testament was universally recognized by the early Christian writings as referring to Sunday, with Justin Martyr explicitly saying as such. Actually, the link omits an important testimony that comes from before Justin: The Epistle of Barnabas asserts that the resurrection occurred on the "eighth day" which would presumably therefore be the first day of the week.

 

[Revelation Lad]

I'm not discussing this with you anymore. You had your chance. If you want, discuss whether the "first (or one) of the Sabbaths" means the "first day of the week". There are others watching and they want the debate to move forward to this topic.

Saber Truth Tiger (His answer on the BHSE Site)
"According to the Hebrew Scriptures (Masoretic Text), Nisan 15 was never designated as a Sabbath."

Hopefully those on this site will read your answer on the Biblical Hermeneutics site.

 

[das grosse schwein]

Saber Truth Tiger (His answer on the BHSE Site)
"According to the Hebrew Scriptures (Masoretic Text), Nisan 15 was never designated as a Sabbath."

Hopefully those on this site will read your answer on the Biblical Hermeneutics site.

Yes, please do.

Can Nisan 15 be referred to as "the sabbath"?

6And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. 7On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you sha...

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

 

[Revelation Lad]

Yes, please do.

Can Nisan 15 be referred to as "the sabbath"?

6And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. 7On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you sha...

hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

And judge for yourself how much of what Saber Truth has written about Nisan 15 here agrees with what he wrote there. Especially with respect to the Septuagint.

 

[das grosse schwein]

68 posts from this thread have been deleted or dropped for some reason. My posts seem to all be there. This throws off the numbering of the posts. I suspect Revelation Lad did it because the deleted posts are all posts he created.