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Christian
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Thank you.

I appreciate it.

Also, a lady in our church had her blood drawn as a routine procedure.

Immediately afterwards, she got a mallet or hammer finger.

Would you ask AI what happened please?
Alright, this is what the machine said. In summary, it said ask a healthcare provider, but she might have an underlying condition that caused this trigger finger.

1727528146333.png
 
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What are the symptoms of spinal meningitis? An easy one. But a friend somehow caught it and died recently short time , fast. But how much did she suffer? I’m wondering. A dear lady, mother to all. She was over 80 and had more life in her until she caught this disease and the lord called her home. Thanks…
This is what the machine said about spinal meningitis. It did a good job. The machine later said that spinal meningitis only lasts a week or less.

1727529539051.png


1727529581447.png
 
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AV1611VET

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Back in the day, the MYCIN expert system was designed for medical diagnosis. So here are a couple of medical diagnosis questions for your AI system. [ Both are based on actual people I know. The people were correctly diagnosed and treated, and they're fine now, so you don't have to worry about your AI harming anyone by practicing medicine without a license. :) ]
Prompt 1: Sally lives in the northeastern US. She lives in a town of 20,000 people, and her home is near a wooded area. In June 2017, she experienced symptoms of muscle aches, significant fatigue, and a small rash on one leg. What do you think is the most likely diagnosis for Sally? Explain the reasoning you used to arrive at that diagnosis. Is there any additional information you need to confirm your diagnosis?

AI Response 1:
1727531662918.png


Prompt 2: Margaret lives in the northeastern US. She lives in a town of 20,000 people, and her home is near a wooded area. In July 2024, she experienced symptoms of headache, muscle aches, significant fatigue, a sore throat, and loss of appetite. What do you think is the most likely diagnosis for Margaret? Explain the reasoning you used to arrive at that diagnosis. Is there any additional information you need to confirm your diagnosis?

AI Response 2 (seems a little off, cos it then consulted the DSM-4, but that may happen with retrieval augmented generation, where the AI pulls from a less-than-ideal source, but this is rare):
1727531766207.png
 
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Thank you most kindly, sir!
You are welcome, brother. Seems that the artificial intelligence just ate through 45% of my laptop's battery by answering almost all of the medical questions here.

Running artificial intelligence is similar to when you see a guy or gal driving a large pickup truck to grab milk at the store. Both use a lot of energy. ;)
 
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Not for some machine. I'm interested in science, not AI toys.
I understand. The machine has consumed a lot of scientific documents. However, here is where I got some of the textbooks from. Have you heard of OpenStax? It is a place that has free textbooks, and is operated by Rice University of Houston, Texas. :) So, if one wants to learn more about medical science without using artificial intelligence, or is taking a medical class for college, open-access textbooks are a lifesaver. Honestly, that stuff is just as interesting as AI. We live in a world where universities can give away textbooks. Just a decade ago, that would have been impossible.

Even the AI that I use is partially open-source. What are your thoughts on open-source technology and open-access literature in the sciences? Could open-access allow science to progress further, or be accessible to parts of the world where education is expensive, such as Sub-Saharan Africa or South Asia? Seeing folks pay > $100 for a textbook is overkill in my opinion. Here is an article below that discusses the impact of open-access research and resources on the medical field.

Quote from Article below: "Lingering resistance to open access medical research is likely related to the fact that academic publishing is a highly profitable business. Annual revenues from English-language science, technology and medical publishing journals in 2017 were estimated to be $10 billion USD."

Suzanne Day Et. Al - Open To The Public [Journal Article] (2020):

OpenStax:
 
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PloverWing

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My queries both contained a "flu-like" cluster of symptoms, which can be challenging because they're associated with so many diseases. I tried to include some specific hints about geography and time of year that a physician would probably pick up on.

Prompt 1: Sally lives in the northeastern US. She lives in a town of 20,000 people, and her home is near a wooded area. In June 2017, she experienced symptoms of muscle aches, significant fatigue, and a small rash on one leg. What do you think is the most likely diagnosis for Sally? Explain the reasoning you used to arrive at that diagnosis. Is there any additional information you need to confirm your diagnosis?

AI Response 1:
View attachment 355118

Not too bad. This case was indeed Lyme Disease. The AI system seems to have picked up on the geographic references -- northeastern US, and ticks in wooded areas.

I note, though, that the AI system invented some symptoms for Sally. Sally did not report that she "felt better initially but experienced continued pain later on". In fact, that was not true for Sally.

Prompt 2: Margaret lives in the northeastern US. She lives in a town of 20,000 people, and her home is near a wooded area. In July 2024, she experienced symptoms of headache, muscle aches, significant fatigue, a sore throat, and loss of appetite. What do you think is the most likely diagnosis for Margaret? Explain the reasoning you used to arrive at that diagnosis. Is there any additional information you need to confirm your diagnosis?

AI Response 2 (seems a little off, cos it then consulted the DSM-4, but that may happen with retrieval augmented generation, where the AI pulls from a less-than-ideal source, but this is rare):
View attachment 355119

This case was COVID. From what you've said, the training sources were older than the emergence of COVID, so it's forgivable that the AI system didn't know to consider that. Influenza is a good guess, but influenza is rare in the summer (that's one reason I included a date). Lyme Disease would have been a reasonable guess again -- the date is summer, and there are still ticks in the woods. I'd say that either Lyme or one of the many respiratory viruses would have been a better guess than Bipolar or Depression.

So: I think the results here are comparable to googling one's symptoms, but my physician isn't out of a job yet. :)
 
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Hans Blaster

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I understand. The machine has consumed a lot of scientific documents. However, here is where I got some of the textbooks from. Have you heard of OpenStax? It is a place that has free textbooks, and is operated by Rice University of Houston, Texas. :)
Nope.
So, if one wants to learn more about medical science without using artificial intelligence, or is taking a medical class for college, open-access textbooks are a lifesaver. Honestly, that stuff is just as interesting as AI. We live in a world where universities can give away textbooks. Just a decade ago, that would have been impossible.

Even the AI that I use is partially open-source. What are your thoughts on open-source technology and open-access literature in the sciences? Could open-access allow science to progress further, or be accessible to parts of the world where education is expensive, such as Sub-Saharan Africa or South Asia? Seeing folks pay > $100 for a textbook is overkill in my opinion. Here is an article below that discusses the impact of open-access research and resources on the medical field.
I'm not interested in discussing the economics of textbook publishing.
Quote from Article below: "Lingering resistance to open access medical research is likely related to the fact that academic publishing is a highly profitable business. Annual revenues from English-language science, technology and medical publishing journals in 2017 were estimated to be $10 billion USD."

Suzanne Day Et. Al - Open To The Public [Journal Article] (2020):

OpenStax:
1. I don't publish in for-profit journals.
2. All of my published work is available without payments.
 
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Nope.

I'm not interested in discussing the economics of textbook publishing.

1. I don't publish in for-profit journals.
2. All of my published work is available without payments.
That is understandable. We do not have to discuss the economics of textbook publishing. But God bless you for publishing your own journal in free journals. It is good to see the spread of science as a free resource, instead of locked behind subscription fees.

Remember brother, I am basically 25 years old, so young folks can be a little different, and sometimes overenthusiastic about things such as newfangled technology, so please bear with me.
 
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My queries both contained a "flu-like" cluster of symptoms, which can be challenging because they're associated with so many diseases. I tried to include some specific hints about geography and time of year that a physician would probably pick up on.



Not too bad. This case was indeed Lyme Disease. The AI system seems to have picked up on the geographic references -- northeastern US, and ticks in wooded areas.

I note, though, that the AI system invented some symptoms for Sally. Sally did not report that she "felt better initially but experienced continued pain later on". In fact, that was not true for Sally.



This case was COVID. From what you've said, the training sources were older than the emergence of COVID, so it's forgivable that the AI system didn't know to consider that. Influenza is a good guess, but influenza is rare in the summer (that's one reason I included a date). Lyme Disease would have been a reasonable guess again -- the date is summer, and there are still ticks in the woods. I'd say that either Lyme or one of the many respiratory viruses would have been a better guess than Bipolar or Depression.

So: I think the results here are comparable to googling one's symptoms, but my physician isn't out of a job yet. :)
It is good that the AI got the first patient correct, and properly determined the cause of the disease. The second one failed, cos the AI did not have much knowledge about COVID-19, and most of the textbooks that the machine consumed over the past two days were from the 2010s and early 2020s. I was thinking COVID as well, but the machine did not.

And yes, artificial intelligence can sometimes hallucinate. RAG (retrieval augmented generation) can reduce that, which is how the AI learned the books, but hallucination is still possible with a small AI model. The AI that I run is only 7 billion parameters, cos my laptop only has 8 gigs of RAM. If I had 16, 32 or 64 GB of RAM in my computer and a faster processor, I could run a 12 billion parameter model, or even 22 billion parameter model.

It is strange how AI can run on 2017-18 hardware made a few years before ChatGPT became a thing in 2022-2023, and locally run AI such as Mistral 7B in 2023-2024. I say, what is the point of a fast CPU when I can not use the whole CPU. Finally, in 2024, my 6-year-old computer can use its CPU to the fullest potential. Though, I did run Folding@Home on my computer in 2018-19. That is a protein folding simulator where I donated some of my CPU to helping scientists with discovering how proteins inside our cells work.

Folding@Home info:
 
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Thanks @AlexB23 . I was just humoring the thread and you. Many blessing to your AI becoming a doctor. Everybody want to know something and needs free advice. Does it prescribe too. Ha. Need a bigger computer.
Have a nice day.
 
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Thanks @AlexB23 . I was just humoring the thread and you. Many blessing to your AI becoming a doctor. Everybody want to know something and needs free advice. Does it prescribe too. Ha. Need a bigger computer.
Have a nice day.
You are welcome, brother. I am not sure if the AI could prescribe medicine (it is not a doctor), but, I could find some mock (fake patient) data, and ask the AI to at least determine the right type of medicine for a fictional patient, and see if it aligns up with what medical scientists say. 100% so, I need a bigger computer. Way bigger.

As a lot of folks here pray about medical stuff, I am hoping that if folks need basic info on medical stuff, I could use it to help others. But, this is mainly just a test of the capabilities of the AI on my computer, and a good way to facilitate discussion of science and technology. Thank you for the kind wishes.
 
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But, this is mainly just a test of the capabilities of the AI on my computer

That's my interest here as well. As we've moved from the older approaches to AI, where the knowledge was explicit and verifiable, to newer approaches that are more of a black box, my trust in the output of AI systems has diminished. In some fields, like medicine, trustworthiness is essential. If Netflix recommends a movie I don't like, no harm done. But if an Artificially Intelligent doctor misdiagnoses me, that's a problem. At the very least, an AI system in a safety-critical field needs to be able to explain its reasoning. I'm following with interest the research in XAI, "explainable AI".

For now, it's useful to be able to test the AI system you've trained. Thanks for being a guinea pig for us. :)
 
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That is understandable. We do not have to discuss the economics of textbook publishing. But God bless you for publishing your own journal in free journals. It is good to see the spread of science as a free resource, instead of locked behind subscription fees.
I never said anything about free journals. I said not-for-profit journals and that my work was available. My papers may be available in their final form only to subscribers for a few years, but I always post the pre-print to arXiv.org
Remember brother, I am basically 25 years old, so young folks can be a little different, and sometimes overenthusiastic about things such as newfangled technology, so please bear with me.
A lot of this kind of AI usage seems to be an exercise in avoiding the work required to understand something. What you learn from it is proportional to how much you put into it.
 
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That's my interest here as well. As we've moved from the older approaches to AI, where the knowledge was explicit and verifiable, to newer approaches that are more of a black box, my trust in the output of AI systems has diminished. In some fields, like medicine, trustworthiness is essential. If Netflix recommends a movie I don't like, no harm done. But if an Artificially Intelligent doctor misdiagnoses me, that's a problem. At the very least, an AI system in a safety-critical field needs to be able to explain its reasoning. I'm following with interest the research in XAI, "explainable AI".

For now, it's useful to be able to test the AI system you've trained. Thanks for being a guinea pig for us. :)
I agree with you entirely. Sadly, XAI technology for LLMs has not arrived yet. AI needs to explain the reasoning, and also must allow for auditing.
 
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I never said anything about free journals. I said not-for-profit journals and that my work was available. My papers may be available in their final form only to subscribers for a few years, but I always post the pre-print to arXiv.org

A lot of this kind of AI usage seems to be an exercise in avoiding the work required to understand something. What you learn from it is proportional to how much you put into it.
At least the journals are not-for-profit. What type of papers did you write? Science journals are complex, but are interesting.

For AI, there are a lot of people who use AI to cheat, or avoid the work. People need to still think for themselves, and having a machine do it will make us less likely to acquire learned skills ourselves. Even if AI is fed hundreds of documents, it is better to learn from experience, which humans are capable, and AI is not. This tech is a double-edged sword. We could either have a lot of laziness in 2050, a lot of innovation in 2050, or AI being smarter than humans (cos the humans would be too lazy to learn anything new). I am betting a future somewhere in between.
 
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At least the journals are not-for-profit. What type of papers did you write? Science journals are complex, but are interesting.
[sub-field redacted] physics.
For AI, there are a lot of people who use AI to cheat, or avoid the work. People need to still think for themselves, and having a machine do it will make us less likely to acquire learned skills ourselves. Even if AI is fed hundreds of documents, it is better to learn from experience, which humans are capable, and AI is not. This tech is a double-edged sword. We could either have a lot of laziness in 2050, a lot of innovation in 2050, or AI being smarter than humans (cos the humans would be too lazy to learn anything new). I am betting a future somewhere in between.
The AI output seems to be the intellectual equivalent of cheese puffs -- not filling.
 
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[sub-field redacted] physics.

The AI output seems to be the intellectual equivalent of cheese puffs -- not filling.
That is cool. Physics is probably one of my favorite branches of science, and it is cool that you worked in a secret field of physics. It does seem that the AI output is not filling or intellectual. Plus, the AI that I use is only 7 billion parameters. If one wants good output, I'd need an AI with at least 10x that and a beefy PC or server rack.
 
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