Jer 31:31-34

[HIM]

I'm not sure how else to word this. I was negating it saying the "and the ten" part at the end cannot be supported and is an issue of conflating terms without scriptural support.

It is a rather wordy line, could you make it more concise as the use of "pertaining to" and "respect to" seem redundant.

The Ten are repeated in the Book of the Law several times together and separately. As is the Royal Law and the Law pertaining to not having respect to persons when treating them. What part of that are you having issues with? It is not hard to understand and is easily seen throughout the Book or the Law and the Holy Writ.

 

[HIM]

I think the key take away here is "...in Islam". I am not a Muslim and I don't follow Islam, so how something is defined in Islam has no rule over me.

Glad to here it.
Thank you for the clarification.

And as an edit we thought it important to mention that the post that you responded to here was deleted @DamianWarS. I apologize for my misunderstanding of the phrase.

 

[DamianWarS]

You do not need to defend yourself. would you share with us ( or not it's os ok) what version of the bible you read, I wanted to ask you this for a long time. I read mostly NKJV and KJV in french I read mostly Louis Second and Crampon versions.

THank you

I don't study/read from one translation and will read from a variety of translations as well as study the Greek and Hebrew. The other language is a second language for me so I do some memorization to keep me grounded in biblical concepts in this language but for sensitivity reasons I can't get into specifics.

 

[Bob S]

The Bible presents two significant covenants: the Old Covenant, established between God and Israel, and the New Covenant, fulfilled through Jesus Christ. The Old Covenant was marked by God giving the Ten Commandments, written directly by Him on stone tablets—an enduring medium to signify the permanence of His law (Exodus 31:18). Alongside these commandments, the law included various ceremonial and civil ordinances, given through Moses, which shaped Israel's relationship with God. However, Israel’s inability to fully keep these laws led to the need for a New Covenant, one that would transform the heart rather than rely on external adherence. Through Scripture, we see that this New Covenant was foretold by the prophets and established through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. But two key questions arise: When did the New Covenant begin, and who is included under it?

When Did the New Covenant Begin?

The New Covenant’s inauguration is closely linked to the death of Jesus Christ, though its establishment was foreshadowed throughout His ministry. During the Last Supper, Jesus explicitly speaks of the New Covenant, using the imagery of His blood as the means through which it is sealed. In **Matthew 26:28**, Jesus says:

"For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."

Here, Jesus refers to His upcoming death as the pivotal moment when the New Covenant would be established. His sacrifice on the cross was to be the final and perfect offering for the forgiveness of sins, replacing the continual sacrifices required under the Old Covenant. This sacrificial act marked the beginning of the New Covenant, fulfilling God's promises made through the prophets, such as in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

However, while Jesus declared the New Covenant at the Last Supper, it was His death that formally inaugurated it. As He died on the cross, His words—“It is finished” (John 19:30) signaled the completion of the atonement process, confirming that His death fulfilled the necessary requirements to initiate the New Covenant.

The resurrection of Jesus further solidified this. It demonstrated not only victory over death but the full power of the New Covenant, which promises not only forgiveness of sins but also eternal life. After His resurrection, Jesus commissioned His disciples to spread this message to all nations, extending the reach of this covenant beyond the boundaries of Israel. In Matthew 28:19, Jesus commands:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

Thus, while the New Covenant was declared during the Last Supper, it was fully inaugurated through the death and resurrection of Jesus, marking a new era in God's relationship with humanity.

Who is Under the New Covenant?

The question of who is included in the New Covenant is equally important. While the Old Covenant was established primarily with the nation of Israel (Exodus 19:5-6), the New Covenant, though promised initially to Israel, expands far beyond one nation. The Scriptures reveal that the New Covenant includes not only Israel but also Gentiles anyone who obeys and believes in God’s promises.

The Old Testament prophets spoke of this inclusion. For instance, Isaiah 42:6 foretells the role of the Messiah as a light to the Gentiles:

"I, the LORD, have called You in righteousness, and will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, as a light to the Gentiles."

This passage suggests that the work of the Messiah, and by extension the New Covenant, would not be confined to Israel alone but would extend to the nations. This universal scope is echoed in Jeremiah 31:31-34 where God promises a New Covenant with the house of Israel and Judah but also hints at a future where all people could be part of His covenant.

Jesus Himself spoke of this broader inclusion. In John 10:16, He refers to “other sheep” who are not part of the Jewish fold but will be gathered into one flock under one shepherd:

"And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."

This statement points to the inclusion of Gentiles—non-Jews—into the fold of God’s covenant people. The New Covenant was never meant to be exclusive to Israel but was part of God's plan to unite all people under Him.

After His resurrection, Jesus further solidified this inclusive nature of the New Covenant by instructing His disciples to spread the gospel to all nations, Matthew 28:19; signaling that the blessings of the New Covenant were for everyone—Jews and Gentiles alike.

The prophets also foreshadowed this global inclusion. In Isaiah 56:6-7; God speaks of bringing foreigners, Gentiles into His covenant community:

"Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants even them I will bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer."

This passage reinforces the idea that the New Covenant is not just for Israel but for all who love and serve God, regardless of their ethnic background. The inclusion of the Gentiles into God's covenant community is a fulfillment of the promises made to Abraham, that through him "all nations of the earth shall be blessed Genesis 22:18.

Conclusion

The New Covenant was formally established through the sacrificial death and victorious resurrection of Jesus Christ. His blood, shed on the cross, marked the moment when the Old Covenant gave way to the New, fulfilling God's promises and offering a once-for-all sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. A critical moment that highlights this transition is found in Matthew 27:51, where it is recorded that at the moment of Jesus' death, “the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.”

This tearing of the temple veil symbolizes the removal of the barrier between God and humanity. Under the Old Covenant, only the high priest could enter the Holy of Holies once a year, but with the New Covenant, access to God is opened to all who believe. This event signifies the end of the Old Covenant's sacrificial system and the direct access to God provided through Christ.

Both Jews and Gentiles who respond in faith and obedience are welcomed into the New Covenant, where God's law is written on their hearts, and forgiveness is offered through the perfect sacrifice of Christ. This is a covenant of Love and relationship, where anyone who loves and serves the Lord is included, regardless of their background or heritage.

Thus, the New Covenant is a global and inclusive promise, extending the blessings of salvation to all who seek God, making them part of His eternal kingdom.

Thanks for your knowledgeable facts concerning the difference between the two covenants. Many who write on the forum try to tell us that the new covenant is merely the old one warmed over. Eph 2:11-18 gives us a perfect picture of what Jesus came to do for all mankind. Verse 15 is a solid fact that Jesus brought to an end the laws contained in the Old Covenant that were given only to one nation, Israel.

11 Don’t forget that you Gentiles used to be outsiders. You were called “uncircumcised heathens” by the Jews, who were proud of their circumcision, even though it affected only their bodies and not their hearts. 12 In those days you were living apart from Christ. You were excluded from citizenship among the people of Israel, and you did not know the covenant promises God had made to them. You lived in this world without God and without hope. 13 But now you have been united with Christ Jesus. Once you were far away from God, but now you have been brought near to him through the blood of Christ.

14 For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us. 15 He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups. 16 Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death.

17 He brought this Good News of peace to you Gentiles who were far away from him, and peace to the Jews who were near. 18 Now all of us can come to the Father through the same Holy Spirit because of what Christ has done for us.

 

[Bob S]

Ok, maybe I read that one sentence wrong, I just looked, my apologies about that if I misunderstood you.

I agree that that greatest commandment to love thy neighbor is written In the book of the law, but it doesn't make the Royal Law the Book of the law. The greatest commandments or Royal Law is the Ten Commandments summarized Rom 13:9 expressed how we are to love God and love man 1 John 5:2-3 the way Jesus explained Isa 42:21 Mat 5:19-30, not breaking the letter, but kept by the spirit of the law which is greater and gets right to the heart of the matter. Heb 8:10 Psa 40:8 where sin begins.

The greatest command ever given was by Jesus in Jn15:

9 “I have loved you even as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. 10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love. 11 I have told you these things so that you will be filled with my joy. Yes, your joy will overflow! 12 This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you. 13 There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you slaves, because a master doesn’t confide in his slaves. Now you are my friends, since I have told you everything the Father told me. 16 You didn’t choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

Notice what Jesus said in verse 10. Jesus kept the commands of the laws given to Israel at Sinai. He didn't ask you and me to keep those laws, He asks us to love others as He loves us. There was not one love word in all of the Ten Commandments. God was not demanding that the Israelites love each other. God was demanding that it was their duty to refrain from breaking the ten. Love comes from the heart; if we Love Jesus, we will love others out of our love for Him. Jesus may have used the word command, but love cannot be dictated.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We asked if Ellen had written anything on it. SDA evangelist, Pastors, elders and laity are what one would see and hear from here and elsewhere. Many proclaim commentary that Ellen had not. And sadly are not right all the time. That is one of the reasons why the questioned was asked.

Who is “We” ? You asked this question, not sure who “We” is.

Be that as it may she says on page 466 in ther Great Controversy, "The apostle James, who wrote after the death of Christ, refers to the decalogue as the “royal law,” and the “perfect law of liberty.”
Well that is pretty self explanatory. The decalogue according to her is called the royal and the law of liberty by James.

And this most definitely is not supported by anything you wrote here or is it supported by the context of the passage.

Thats exactly what I wrote. The Decalogue is the Ten Commandments/ Law of Liberty or the greatest commandments/Royal law summarized. Rom 13:9 I’m not sure why you would try to create division between me and my church, when there is none there. Not sure what you’re trying to prove or why you are choosing to take this route, but its not the Him I have grown to love and respect in the past

The Law is a broad term that is not just referring to the Decalogue.

Yes, agree, the law is a broad term, which is why when scripture reveals which law its referring to like it did with the law of liberty, adding our own law to it or ideas is not what we are told to do.

I asked this question now three time and still no answer- which law is being quoted and contrasted from? I believe this passage exactly as it reads. God never added more to the Ten Commandments Deut 5:22- who are we to do so.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

My previous post on Jeremiah 31 31-34 (#159) did not cover the contents of the new covenant but rather discussed to whom it was destined and also when it started. Below I explain the contents the new covenant;

When Jesus speaks in Matthew 5:17-18, He clarifies that He did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets but to fulfill them. This shows that the essence of the law remains intact, but its fulfillment in Jesus brings a much deeper understanding. Jesus expands on this by explaining that true righteousness goes beyond mere outward observance, as seen in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7), where He speaks of inner purity, love, and forgiveness.

In Matthew 22:37-40, when asked about the greatest commandment, Jesus sums up the law by pointing to two principles: loving God with all one's heart, soul, and mind, and loving one's neighbor as oneself. He states that "on these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." This covers the essence of the law within the New Covenant, focused on love, fulfilling the moral intent of the law in a deeper, more complete way.

The New Covenant, therefore, involves a transformation of the heart, with God's law written inwardly. It’s a covenant based on love and obedience to God's will, rooted in Jesus' teachings and the foundational command to love God and others. This fulfills the true spirit of the law as intended by God.

 

[DamianWarS]

In Matthew 22:37-40, when asked about the greatest commandment, Jesus sums up the law by pointing to two principles: loving God with all one's heart, soul, and mind, and loving one's neighbor as oneself. He states that "on these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." This covers the essence of the law within the New Covenant, focused on love, fulfilling the moral intent of the law in a deeper, more complete way.

often Biblical messages have layered meaning, especially in the case with Jesus. I believe it can be both, since these "greatest" in question are found plainly in the law.

Deu 6:4-5
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength

now compare it with the quotes in the gospels

Mat 22:37​

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’​

​

Mar 12:29-30​

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’​

​

Luke 10:27a​

[the expert in the law] answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself....​

​

It would be difficult to say Jesus was not quoting this exact passage in the law given how close its resemblance to the deu 6:4-5 text is. To the point, I think, the authors of these gospel's (Mathew, Mark, Luke) have ensured the quote matches what the law said.​

Then the latter part (second greatest commandment) first quoting from the law

Lev 19:18
“‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

Mat 22:39​

And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.​

​

Mar 12:31​

The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”​

​

Luk 10:27b​

...and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.​

I will note that in the Luke text it begins with an expert/teacher of the law asking Jesus and then answering his own question

Luke 10:25-26
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life? What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”"

So these is not Jesus summarizing the law, it is a teacher of the law saying what the law says.

The Mathew and Mark texts both end saying to the effect of "All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments". again affirming Jesus is talking about commandments not just summarizing but in a way he also is summarizing as well

This passage is also not lost to me which is explicitly summarizing:

Mat 7:12
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

John doesn't use the same language but his version is still valid as general support for the law of love given the other 3 support it more explicitly John just has a different perspective.

Joh 13:34
Jesus said, “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another

so what is the take away? Did he quote commandments in the law as the greatest or did he summarize the law? I would say both. The question is asked which commandment is the greatest and Jesus does in fact quote a commandment from the law. This is also affirmed by a teacher of the law quoting it himself in the same way meaning thia was broadly known to the Jews of that day and they weren't obscure references. The Deu 6:4-5 establishes the beginnings of Shema, which today is one of the most revered prayers in all of the Jewish faith. To them, this passages is not merely a summarization but an integral part of the faith.

There is also Pauls comments

Rom 13:9
The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Paul clearly established a summarizing of the law and he is quoting only from the 10 which probably is the strongest case in the NT that point to the 10 generally conflated with the law. But this can only be inferred from the text and is never explicitly said. Paul may just as well have been using those commandments because they were well known. He does also say "...and whatever other command there may be" as sort of a catch-all for law and I would suggest this means all of torah and is not merely limited to the 10, the latter is just too weak of an argument. but regardless, his conclusions are the same which is found in v10b "Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law". This is also repeated in Galatians 5:14 "For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself." (Again referenced as a commandment) as well as Gal 6:2 "Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ."

Galatians shows us a very clear understanding of what Christ's law/commandments are. Taking a verse alone is not as clear but there are many references to law and Christ's commandments and the things that count that the whole letter taken together presents a strong case for new covenant understanding/commandments that are not defined by the old but by this law of love/Christ, yes, even without the outward actions required by the law like cutting off foreskin or ritual rest 1 day a week. The immediate reason to do anything under the law of love is how does it glorify God and love others? If it can satisfy these things it doesn't matter what we do, it is lawful. After all doesn't Jesus even say in Mat 12:12 "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath" doesn't this beg the question shouldn't we just be doing good then? And why only once a week? Why not everyday? This is the law of love in action and it is all fulfilled by keeping this one commandment. Galatians is a short book, I would recommend reading it in one sitting to get its full effects.

 

[HIM]

Thats exactly what I wrote. The Decalogue is the Ten Commandments/ Law of Liberty or the greatest commandments/Royal law summarized.

Then Ellen and you are wrong. A prophet and a teacher of Scripture are two different gifts. Many teach, but not many have been taught. She should have stayed in her lane. As should others here.

The Royal law is definitely not the Ten Commandments according to the context of the passage in James 2. It is Love. It literally says so in the verse.
Not having respect to a person's position when dealing with them is in the book of the Law not the Ten, And it is the immediate example given within the context of the passage in respect to loving.

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Jesus said in Matt the first and great commandment is Love God with our every being and the second greatest is like UNTO it. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
The first thing one needs to realize is this proves at least one thing outside of what is written at face value. And that is there are more commandments then just the Ten. That fact is realized here where Jesus says these two commandments of Love are the greatest. These two are not in the Ten. Though the Ten depend on them so do the other commandments and statutes contained in the Law.

The second thing one needs to see is the Text literally says that on these two commandments of love hang, depend ALL the Law and Prophets. Not just the Ten commandments but all the Law and Prophets. All the Law, not just some of it.

Matt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matt 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matt 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matt 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Now that we proved that there are other commandments in the book of the Law. And that they depend on Love we can go to Romans 13:8-10 and have a clearer understanding that though Paul mentions the some of the Ten he also mentions the Law in respect to what Love fulfills. And To state love worketh no ill goes beyond the Ten and the law. For it is the Spirit.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

With all this being stated let's take a look at the New Covenant now. As we peer into it here in Heb 8:10 one can clearly see it says the Laws are to be in our hearts and minds. Not just the commandments but Laws. This would include the Ten but not just the Ten.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


And as we look throughout the Holy Writ we will see that this Covenant that Jeremiah speaks was said elsewhere but worded differently. Here in Ezekiel 36:25-27 the Prophet states that it is God's Spirit that is given to us to make us walk in God's statutes and keep His judgments. This is reaffirmed in the New Testament also. Rom 8:9, 1 Cor3:16, Gal 5:5,22,23


Ezek 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Ezek 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Ezek 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


So far we have the New Covenant stating that God's Laws are to be placed in our hearts and minds. And the Prophet Ezekiel reaffirming it in other words in which broaden our understanding on how God is doing this by saying He will be giving us His spirit so that we walk in His statutes. But we are not done yet. Let's look at one more shall we. Romans 10:6-8 which is a paraphrase of Deut 30:10-14. They say the word is in our mouth and in our hearts that we do it, that is the faith in which we preach. Which is actually the first time God spoke the New covenant. And this just as Israel was to enter the promised land. The fact that it is a new covenant and not the old can be clearly seen in Deut 29:1 where God had said

Deut 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.

So now one can clearly see that it is not just the 10 commandments. But God's word that is to be in our hearts. Which is define in Deut 30:10-14 as God's commandments and statutes contained in the Book of the Law.

We also see that He gives us His Spirit to make us walk in His statutes and keep His judgements. And that the paraphase of Deut 30:10-14 in Rom 10:6-8 tells us this word that we need not asked to be called down from above or up from the deep is none other than Christ our Savior. For He, through the Spirit is in our hearts that we do your will oh God! And This goes beyond, but does not exempt the Ten and what is written in the Law and the Prophets. So let's not stick God in a box. He leadeth where he may.


Deut 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
Deut 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
Deut 30:12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deut 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

 

[HIM]

I praise God for never placing myself in a denomination box. Can you imagine Abraham saying no Lord I will not sacrifice my son. For you have said thou shall not kill. I pray that none of us have to go through such. But we also pray that each of us know that we might be called to such

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Royal law is definitely not the Ten Commandments according to the context of the passage in James 2. It is Love.

So now the Ten Commandments are not love? Wow. that's interesting.

None of the scriptures you posted contradict these biblical Truths

What is the Royal Law?

James 2:88 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;

The biblical principle is if you quote from one of the laws in the category, it means them all. James is not teaching only one of the greatest commandments is the Royal Law, it would include both -Love God with all our heart, love our neighbor i.e. the Royal Law

So the Royal law is the Greatest commandments.

What are the Greatest Commandments? Scripture tells us if we allow it to define Itself

Which set of law is Paul only quoting from to summarize the greatest commandment to love thy neighbor? Here' the link

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20 - New King James Version

The Ten Commandments - And God spoke all these words, saying: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. “You shall have no other gods before Me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above...

www.biblegateway.com

Romans 13:8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [b]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

The summary does not delete the details. Love to our fellow man is summarized in the last 6 commandments, love to God is summarized in the first 4 commandments which makes the greatest commandments to love God and love they neighbor the Royal Law- so the Royal law is the Ten Commandments summarized.

What is the law of liberty? Again scripture tells us if we allow it to.

Which whole law is being referred to. I'll post the link that shows what James is quoting from explicitly so we don't have to guess.

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20 - New King James Version

The Ten Commandments - And God spoke all these words, saying: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. “You shall have no other gods before Me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above...

www.biblegateway.com

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He (God) who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. We are judged on the Ten Commandments the law of Liberty which reconciles with Rev 22:14-15, Mat 5:19-30, Ecc 12:13:14

So through scripture we know the Royal law and the Law of Liberty is the Ten Commandments- God's perfect law converting the soul Psa 19:7 written by the finger of God.

Jesus said:
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

So the whole bible hangs on the principles of the Ten Commandments- love to God, love to our fellow man. Love never went undefined

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome

If one was keeping the Ten Commandments the way Jesus taught us to Mat 5:19-30 everything God asks of us would be kept through love. Take the first commandment Exo 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before Me. If one were keeping this very commandment, we would be keeping everything God's asks of us.

What seals God's Ten Commandments is the Sabbath. Without a seal, the law would mean nothing, it would be a set of laws that no one would know where they came from and who authorized it.

Right in the Sabbath commandment reveals God's seal.

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The 3 elements of a seal

1. Name: Lord thy God.
2. Territory : Heaven and earth
3: Title: Creator

It’s why the devil has attacked the Sabbath so much and has tried counterfeiting everything God has made. Sadly, people prefer to throw out or edit the Ten Commandments, but no one can because no one is above God and He said He would not alter not even and dot of an i or cross of a t. No wonder why so many people try to tear down the Ten Commandments to mean less than how God intended, and then try to pretend it came from God, when God clearly said He would not alter His Words Psa 89:34. Whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16 God only numbered one set of laws, He only personally wrote one set of laws, only one set of laws is inside the ark of the covenant, only one set of laws we will be Judged by, the law of Liberty James 2:10-12 Rev 22:14-15 The Ten are principles of the entire scriptures- love to God, love to our fellow man and should be kept through love and faith to God, our Creator of everything

 

[Bob S]

My previous post on Jeremiah 31 31-34 (#159) did not cover the contents of the new covenant but rather discussed to whom it was destined and also when it started. Below I explain the contents the new covenant;

When Jesus speaks in Matthew 5:17-18, He clarifies that He did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets but to fulfill them. This shows that the essence of the law remains intact, but its fulfillment in Jesus brings a much deeper understanding. Jesus expands on this by explaining that true righteousness goes beyond mere outward observance, as seen in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7), where He speaks of inner purity, love, and forgiveness.

I would like to address the prophets in verse 17. “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Would you agree that Jesus brought to an end the prophecies about His coming? One of the meanings of fulfill is "to bring to an end". Those prophesies have been brought to an end. Now how do we deal with the Law? It is in the same sentence. We have to acknowledge that Jesus brought the Law to an end also. You have rightly written that the New Covenant is not merely for Israel and Judah but for all mankind. If we believe the Law still remains "intact" then all mankind is subject to all of the laws contained in the Old Covenant.

If we believe the apostle Paul was converted and was to spread the Good News we have to believe his letter to the Ephesians. In that letter he explains that Jesus ended the Law. Chapter2 Verse 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

What kept the Israelites and the Gentiles separated? It was the Law of course.`

In Matthew 22:37-40, when asked about the greatest commandment, Jesus sums up the law by pointing to two principles: loving God with all one's heart, soul, and mind, and loving one's neighbor as oneself. He states that "on these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." This covers the essence of the law within the New Covenant, focused on love, fulfilling the moral intent of the law in a deeper, more complete way.

That covers the the moral aspect of the Law, but what about all of the ritual or ceremonial commands like the feast days, new moons, and Sabbaths, or what we eat or drink??? Either Jesus brought the full Law to an end or mankind is still obligated to observe it all.

The New Covenant, therefore, involves a transformation of the heart, with God's law written inwardly. It’s a covenant based on love and obedience to God's will, rooted in Jesus' teachings and the foundational command to love God and others. This fulfills the true spirit of the law as intended by God.

If I read you correctly the Law of the Old Covenant is still bindng, but we fulfill it by our love for our fellow man and God? By loving God and our fellow man releases us from having to observe the Sabbath and all the other laws of the covenant given only to Israel.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I praise God for never placing myself in a denomination box. Can you imagine Abraham saying no Lord I will not sacrifice my son. For you have said thou shall not kill. I pray that none of us have to go through such. But we also pray that each of us know that we might be called to such

What church teaches that Abraham wouldn't/shouldn't obey God?

God has a Church, He tells us He does, so being off on an island by oneself, is not how God wants us to be. While God's Chruch (teachings) are perfect, people are imperfect so there will always be imperfect people in His Church. Just like Jesus had a Judas in the 12 disciples. All gets sorted out on Judgement Day, the tares get separated from the wheat.

God tells us He has a Church and here are some of the characteristics

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

The commandments of God would be His version, written by the finger of God Exo 31:18, Exo 32:16 not what was changed by man we were warned about Dan 7:25

Sadly Christ Church is just a remnant

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman (His Church) , and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This is the testimony of Jesus Christ

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

 

[Bob S]

Or perhaps its not James or Ellen that is wrong...

So now the Ten Commandments are not love? Wow. that's interesting.

Where is the Ten Commandments described as being "love"?

None of the scriptures you posted contradict these biblical Truths

What is the Royal Law?

James 2:88 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;

The biblical principle is if you quote from one of the laws, it means them all. James is not teaching only one of the greatest commandments is the Royal Law, it would include both -Love God with all our heart, love our neighbor i.e. the Royal Law

So the Royal law is the Greatest commandments.

What are the Greatest Commandments? Scripture tells us if we allow it to define Itself

Which set of law is Paul only quoting from to summarize the greatest commandment to love thy neighbor? Here' the link

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20 - New King James Version

The Ten Commandments - And God spoke all these words, saying: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. “You shall have no other gods before Me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above...

www.biblegateway.com

Romans 13:8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [b]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

The summary does not delete the details. Love to our fellow man is summarized in the last 6 commandments, love to God is summarized in the first 4 commandments which makes the greatest commandments to love God and love they neighbor the Royal Law- so the Royal law is the Ten Commandments summarized.

Every one of the Ten Commandments dealt with God or our fellow man except the fourth one. The fourth one dealt with a day to commemorate Israel's escape from bondage and remembrance of creation. Nowhere in the message of Good News is there a requirement concerning the observance of a day yet the SDA church makes the observance of a day a requirement for salvation. It does not make any sense.

What is the law of liberty? Again scripture tells us if we allow it to.

Which whole law is being referred to. I'll post the link that shows what James is quoting from explicitly so we don't have to guess.

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20 - New King James Version

The Ten Commandments - And God spoke all these words, saying: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. “You shall have no other gods before Me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above...

www.biblegateway.com

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He (God) who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. We are judged on the Ten Commandments the law of Libert which reconciles with Rev 22:14-15, Mat 5:19-30, Ecc 12:13:14

So through scripture we know the Royal law and the Law of Liberty is the Ten Commandments- God's perfect law converting the soul Psa 19:7 written by the finger of God.

Actually, Jesus gave mankind the Royal law in John 15:9-14 where He said He kept the laws of the Old Covenant and asks us to keep His Law of Love, The Royal Law James is referring.

Jesus said:
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

So the whole bible hangs on the principles of the Ten Commandments- love to God, love to our fellow man. Love never went undefined

Actually, there is no command in the Ten Commandments to love anything. The Ten Commandments were all about duty. You keep reiterating that the Ten Commandments were about love, but you have never given any proof. Yes, we are to love God and our fellow man, but the 10 were not telling the Israelites to love. Love can't be dictated, it has to come from the heart.

,
1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome

3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. 1Jn3: 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

If one was keeping the Ten Commandments the way Jesus taught us to Mat 5:19-30 everything God asks of us would be kept through love. Take the first commandment Exo 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before Me. If one were keeping this very commandment, we would be keeping everything God's asks of us.

If your interpretation of Matt 5 is true you were true to it you would be keeping every jot and tittle of the Law' and your church would be teaching that.

 

[daq]

The "law of liberty".

John 8:30-32 KJV
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [G1659 ἐλευθερόω - v. to liberate, set free]

James 2:12-13 KJV
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. [G1657 ἐλευθερία - n. freedom]
13 For [Because] he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against [exults over] judgment.

The "law of liberty" is taught by the Master himself in the Gospel accounts and pertains to forgiveness: for Yakob, (a.k.a. "James"), says that the one having shown no mercy shall receive judgment without mercy.

Matthew 6:9-15 KJV
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

The trespasses mentioned at the end of the quote, (Matthew 6:15b), obviously pertain to the Torah, that is, the trespassing of the commandments which are taught in the Torah, which are trespasses against the Father and His Word. This therefore is the law of liberty: for if you forgive others their trespasses against you, then the Father will forgive you for your trespasses against Him, but if you do not forgive others for their trespasses against you, then the Father will not forgive your trespasses.

The statement is about as plain as it can be, and therefore now, anyone may begin to walk in the Torah in the new supernal way taught for us by the Master in his Testimony in the Gospel accounts: for so long as we follow his command to forgive others their trespasses against ourselves, our heavenly Father will forgive us for our trespasses against Him and His Word, the Torah. If we make mistakes we are to be judged according to this law/torah/instruction of the Master, the "law of liberty", which has set us free from the penalties involved by way of forgiveness so long as we reciprocate, follow the commandment of the Master in the above passage, and forgive others their trespasses against ourselves.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

None of those scripture conflict with James 2:10-12 and what law he defined as the law of Liberty.

Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 the law being referred to is shown Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 same law we will be Judged by James 2:10-12 Rev 22:14-15 hence why its the law of Liberty- free from the control of the devil and the bondage of sin 1John 3:8 walking free in Christ by His Spirit keeping His law through love and faith John 14:15-18 1 John 5:3 Rev 14:12

Moses is not equal to God. While he is a very important person he was a type of Christ, but he is not Christ.

God's commandments started way before the law of Moses. There is a law that defines what sin is Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 and a law that was added because of sin Galatians 3:19. So not the same law, many get these confused because they do not have a good foundation of the Ten Commandments and the law of Moses. Two different laws, that serve different purposes.

Where there is no law, there is no transgression. Rom 4:15. The devil sinned from the beginning therefore he broke God's law 1 John 3:8. So there has to be a law that was in heaven - would it be the law that was written by the finger of God Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 and we don't need to guess Heb 8:1-5 Rev 11:19 or the law of Moses, written by Moses who was not around then, and his law was added as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 for breaking God's law, the Ten Commandments. Its why Cain new it was sin to murder because he was given God's law to thou shalt not murder, only found in the Ten Commandments- breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 because God gave them in a unit of Ten Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28

No other law would have been added had Adam and Eve not sinned and broke God's law. Many of the law of Moses still has a purpose, but they are not the Ten Commandments, written by God personally. Jesus kept and taught on the Ten Commandments teaching not to break or teach others to break the least of them because its eternal and in doing so one would be in fear of sin and Judgement Mat 5:19-30 as it is what the whole principle of the Bible hangs on- love to God, love to man.

 

[HIM]

Or perhaps its not James or Ellen that is wrong...

We Said you and Ellen not Ellen and James. The fact that you twisted what was said should show all more than they need to know. Including you. Shame on you and the person that gave you a positive affirmation for this post we are responding to.

 

[HIM]

Sadly Christ Church is just a remnant

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman (His Church) , and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This is the testimony of Jesus Christ

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Another passage Adventist have wrong and teach emphatically.
Some within hear though.

To have the Spirit of Prophecy means the individual possesses it and uses it not an individual.

Ellen had it, the SDA church does not as a whole. There are individuals within the SDA denomination that do. As there is individuals throughout many denominations that do. For God has said I will put my law within their hearts and in their minds will I write it. For My word is in their hearts and and their mouths. I wll given them of my Spirit and cause them to walk in my statutes and judgements. They are begotten by the word of truth. And it is I who work in them both to will and do my good pleasure. For in me they live, move and have their being. Amen

 

[HIM]

The "law of liberty".

John 8:30-32 KJV
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [G1659 ἐλευθερόω - v. to liberate, set free]

James 2:12-13 KJV
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. [G1657 ἐλευθερία - n. freedom]
13 For [Because] he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against [exults over] judgment.

The "law of liberty" is taught by the Master himself in the Gospel accounts and pertains to forgiveness: for Yakob, (a.k.a. "James"), says that the one having shown no mercy shall receive judgment without mercy.

Matthew 6:9-15 KJV
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

The trespasses mentioned at the end of the quote, (Matthew 6:15b), obviously pertain to the Torah, that is, the trespassing of the commandments which are taught in the Torah, which are trespasses against the Father and His Word. This therefore is the law of liberty: for if you forgive others their trespasses against you, then the Father will forgive you for your trespasses against Him, but if you do not forgive others for their trespasses against you, then the Father will not forgive your trespasses.

The statement is about as plain as it can be, and therefore now, anyone may begin to walk in the Torah in the new supernal way taught for us by the Master in his Testimony in the Gospel accounts: for so long as we follow his command to forgive others their trespasses against ourselves, our heavenly Father will forgive us for our trespasses against Him and His Word, the Torah. If we make mistakes we are to be judged according to this law/torah/instruction of the Master, the "law of liberty", which has set us free from the penalties involved by way of forgiveness so long as we reciprocate, follow the commandment of the Master in the above passage, and forgive others their trespasses against ourselves.

The Law of Liberty is the engrafted word in our heart

None of those scripture conflict with James 2:10-12 and what law he defined as the law of Liberty.

Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 the law being referred to is shown Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 same law we will be Judged by James 2:10-12 Rev 22:14-15 hence why its the law of Liberty- free from the control of the devil and the bondage of sin 1John 3:8 walking free in Christ by His Spirit keeping His law through love and faith John 14:15-18 1 John 5:3 Rev 14:12

Moses is not equal to God. While he is a very important person he was a type of Christ, but he is not Christ.

God's commandments started way before the law of Moses. There is a law that defines what sin is Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 and a law that was added because of sin Galatians 3:19. So not the same law, many get these confused because they do not have a good foundation of the Ten Commandments and the law of Moses. Two different laws, that serve different purposes.

Where there is no law, there is no transgression. Rom 4:15. The devil sinned from the beginning therefore he broke God's law 1 John 3:8. So there has to be a law that was in heaven - would it be the law that was written by the finger of God Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 and we don't need to guess Heb 8:1-5 Rev 11:19 or the law of Moses, written by Moses who was not around then, and his law was added as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 for breaking God's law, the Ten Commandments. Its why Cain new it was sin to murder because he was given God's law to thou shalt not murder, only found in the Ten Commandments- breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 because God gave them in a unit of Ten Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28

No other law would have been added had Adam and Eve not sinned and broke God's law. Many of the law of Moses still has a purpose, but they are not the Ten Commandments, written by God personally. Jesus kept and taught on the Ten Commandments teaching not to break or teach others to break the least of them because its eternal and in doing so one would be in fear of sin and Judgement Mat 5:19-30 as it is what the whole principle of the Bible hangs on- love to God, love to man.

Law is law. Not just the Ten.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We Said

Who is "We" you keep referring to

you and Ellen not Ellen and James. The fact that you twisted what was said should show all more than they need to know. Including you. Shame on you and the person that gave you a positive affirmation for this post we are responding to.

Ellen believed James just as he reads. James is involved because he quoted and contrasted from the law he was referring to James 2:10-12 that I asked more than once for you to name the law James is only quoting from.

Law is law. Not just the Ten.

There are many different laws and they don't all mean the same, serve the same purpose or were given at the same time. God separated His law from the others- you will have to take this up with Him.

How many laws do we see here?

Deut 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deut 5:22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

If God wanted all the laws the same, we would see 613 instead of Ten. 613 is not even a biblical number we can find in the scriptures. God numbered one law by design, one law was inside the ark of the covenant, one law was written by the finger of God so no God the Creator writing and man, the creation handwriting is not law is law. There is a law that is perfect converting the soul Psa 19:7 and a law that is contrary and against Col 2:14 Deut 31:26 so law is not law. Unless we understand the differences of the laws and its purpose, we will get totally confused in NT writings. The scriptures reveal which law is being referred like James 2:10-12 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 etc so in my humble opinion, its best to allow the scriptures to interpret the scriptures and not add what's not there.

Not sure what's going on with you and why this need to attack those who don't agree with you, but I'll keep you in my prayers. Its probably best for me to walk away from this discussion, but I wish you well.