Potential Peace deal between Russia and Ukraine was blocked by Biden-Harris official in 2022

[Robban]

At this point, we should not even worry about this war. Let it play out. Or, send someone to take Putin out.

Also, no one gave you a smiley.

May/June 1945 a plan was put forward called Operation Unthinkable,

difference today is Josef Stalin and USSR are gone.

After having lost estimated 27 million lives in driving out nazism, the country lay in ruins,

the shocking thing about that operation is it would like kicking someone when they are down.

And using freegiven pow Germans too.

So now you know where the hate from the West toward the Russian Federation, the Russian people, Russian culture comes from,

from the hearts and minds of, cannot think of words.

But it is regrettable that adults cannot sit down and work things out.

 

[Offline4Better.]

I didn't mean to imply that that someone gave it to me, it was more that I'm confused how I got it to appear. And I do believe we should worry about it, the consequences depending on how it ends can vary a lot. Still confused as to what is a "neutral" Ukrainian though.

No idea. I am not an ambassador. Maybe the Russian speaking parts of Ukraine could be jointly operated by Ukrainian and Russian governments.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Well of course. But nevertheless, a negotiated peace deal should not have been blocked.

There's no peace negotiations. Russian started their terrorist attack. And Putin needs to end it. And Putin should be punished.

 

[RDKirk]

There's no peace negotiations. Russian started their terrorist attack. And Putin needs to end it. And Putin should be punished.

From a rational viewpoint, is it a peace "negotiation" when it means Russia keeps the land it has gained and Ukraine is not permitted to prevent Russia from invading again?

 

[Hank77]

No idea. I am not an ambassador. Maybe the Russian speaking parts of Ukraine could be jointly operated by Ukrainian and Russian governments.

If people whose first language is French rather than English such as many people born and raised along the border of northern Maine and Canada are choosing to live in the US but Canada thinks those borders should change what would you say to that? Is that something the US should agree to? Or should the people who speak French choose to live in the US or Canada?

Should Ukrainians who speak Russian choose whether they will live in Ukraine or Russia? Why should Ukraine give up its territory to accommodate these people who choose to live there?

 

[Vambram]

There's no peace negotiations. Russian started their terrorist attack. And Putin needs to end it. And Putin should be punished.

There were negotiations for peace after Russia invaded Ukraine. However, I do agree with the rest of your post.

 

[Offline4Better.]

If people whose first language is French rather than English such as many people born and raised along the border of northern Maine and Canada are choosing to live in the US but Canada thinks those borders should change what would you say to that? Is that something the US should agree to? Or should the people who speak French choose to live in the US or Canada?

Should Ukrainians who speak Russian choose whether they will live in Ukraine or Russia? Why should Ukraine give up its territory to accommodate these people who choose to live there?

I have no idea. Which is why we should let the diplomats decide the peace deal, not us armchair politicians in front of a computer on Christianforums.com decide this one.

I am gonna blame 90%, if not nearly 100% of this war on Putin's ego. The only way to stop this war is to arrest Putin.

 

[rjs330]

There's no peace negotiations. Russian started their terrorist attack. And Putin needs to end it. And Putin should be punished.

And how exactly do you propose.to.do that?

 

[rjs330]

There is no doubt at all that this is on Putin and Russia. The issue is, apart from a world wide response rhere is no way to force Russia to stop and give up the territory. And force is what will be required. And since no one wants a war with Russia, including NATO, then Russia has to be given territory. I'm not happy about it. Putin should be punished. But who's going to do it and how?

If there is a better plan that is actually workable I'd like to hear it.

 

[RDKirk]

There is no doubt at all that this is on Putin and Russia. The issue is, apart from a world wide response rhere is no way to force Russia to stop and give up the territory. And force is what will be required. And since no one wants a war with Russia, including NATO, then Russia has to be given territory. I'm not happy about it. Putin should be punished. But who's going to do it and how?

If there is a better plan that is actually workable I'd like to hear it.

The Ukrainian government still believes force will work. It worked for Afghanistan. Heck, it worked for the Russians in WWII. They didn't hire you to be their negotiator.

 

[rjs330]

The Ukrainian government still believes force will work. It worked for Afghanistan. Heck, it worked for the Russians in WWII. They didn't hire you to be their negotiator.

Ukraine isn't the Italian and the Hindu Kush. This also isn't WWII with Hitler fighting a war on two fronts. Ukraine isn't Russia in WWII.

JD Vance idea isn't any more ridiculous than anyone else's to end the war. In fact I haven't heard a Biden or Harris plan at all. Which is worse. At least someone is thinking about it.

 

[7thKeeper]

Ukraine isn't the Italian and the Hindu Kush. This also isn't WWII with Hitler fighting a war on two fronts. Ukraine isn't Russia in WWII.

JD Vance idea isn't any more ridiculous than anyone else's to end the war. In fact I haven't heard a Biden or Harris plan at all. Which is worse. At least someone is thinking about it.

Vance's idea amounts to punishing Ukraine and leaving them vulnerable for any future aggression.

 

[rjs330]

Vance's idea amounts to punishing Ukraine and leaving them vulnerable for any future aggression.

No it doesn't. Whats Harris plan? A DMZ has worked before. Vance at least has an idea. Let's see, how much have we discussed Bidens or Harris' plan?

 

[7thKeeper]

No it doesn't. Whats Harris plan? A DMZ has worked before. Vance at least has an idea. Let's see, how much have we discussed Bidens or Harris' plan?

Yes it does. One, it says that Russia gets the territories it occupies in Ukraine, while Ukraine would have to give the territories it occupies back to Russia. Two, it wouldn't help much, if it all in this case, because according to this plan, Ukraine is forever forbidden from joining NATO or other similar groups and would have to remain alone. The other example of DMZ offered in the other thread of between Koreas is vastly different, because of the different power balance between the states and South Korea being in a military alliance with the USA.
Vance's plan just plain sucks and is punishing Ukraine. So far, Harris' plan is the correct one. It's up to Ukraine. And we know they have a plan for one and have shared it with the current administration but it hasn't been made public, which I can understand.

 

[RDKirk]

No it doesn't. Whats Harris plan? A DMZ has worked before. Vance at least has an idea. Let's see, how much have we discussed Bidens or Harris' plan?

A DMZ would be on the traditional Ukraine/Russia border extending 50% into Russia and 50% into Ukraine. And both sides would get to create treaties with any other party they think advisable. You think Putin's going for that?

 

[rjs330]

A DMZ would be on the traditional Ukraine/Russia border extending 50% into Russia and 50% into Ukraine. And both sides would get to create treaties with any other party they think advisable. You think Putin's going for that?

I don't know, but it's a starting point. That's whole point of ideas and negotiations. Somebody has to start the conversation. And right know the Trump team is the only one to have a starting point.

 

[rjs330]

Yes it does. One, it says that Russia gets the territories it occupies in Ukraine, while Ukraine would have to give the territories it occupies back to Russia. Two, it wouldn't help much, if it all in this case, because according to this plan, Ukraine is forever forbidden from joining NATO or other similar groups and would have to remain alone. The other example of DMZ offered in the other thread of between Koreas is vastly different, because of the different power balance between the states and South Korea being in a military alliance with the USA.
Vance's plan just plain sucks and is punishing Ukraine. So far, Harris' plan is the correct one. It's up to Ukraine. And we know they have a plan for one and have shared it with the current administration but it hasn't been made public, which I can understand.

Well as we know a plan unshared can be assumed that there is no plan.

It's fair to criticize Vances plan. I mean we'll probably criticize any plan Harris eventually puts out.

I don't think Ukraine or Russia will.agree to Vances plan off the bat. But it's at least a starting point. If we are going to get Putin to the table we can't start with "you have to leave and give up all the territory you've taken and face punishment from the international.cimmunity and Ukraine gets to join Nato."

That's a non starter for him. So you at least have to start tossing out things that might fet him to the table.

 

[RDKirk]

Well as we know a plan unshared can be assumed that there is no plan.

It's fair to criticize Vances plan. I mean we'll probably criticize any plan Harris eventually puts out.

I don't think Ukraine or Russia will.agree to Vances plan off the bat. But it's at least a starting point. If we are going to get Putin to the table we can't start with "you have to leave and give up all the territory you've taken and face punishment from the international.cimmunity and Ukraine gets to join Nato."

That's a non starter for him. So you at least have to start tossing out things that might fet him to the table.

Putin has already said that Russian control of Ukraine is existential to Russia. How is he going to back away from that?

 

[7thKeeper]

Well as we know a plan unshared can be assumed that there is no plan.

It's fair to criticize Vances plan. I mean we'll probably criticize any plan Harris eventually puts out.

This whole thought process here is flawed. Why is an American vice president candidate making plans for another nation? That's why I said Kamalas stance of not saying anything is the correct one. It's up to Ukraine, not the USA. And especially, when it seems to be just a "plan" shared with the American media, not Ukraine while it should be the other way around if there are to be any suggestions.

I don't think Ukraine or Russia will.agree to Vances plan off the bat. But it's at least a starting point. If we are going to get Putin to the table we can't start with "you have to leave and give up all the territory you've taken and face punishment from the international.cimmunity and Ukraine gets to join Nato."

That's a non starter for him. So you at least have to start tossing out things that might fet him to the table.

Not being allowed to join NATO and EU is a nonstarter for Ukraine. Funny how that doesn't come into the calculation there, only Putins wants.

 

[rjs330]

Putin has already said that Russian control of Ukraine is existential to Russia. How is he going to back away from that?

I don't know. I'm not Putin. But for the last time, and this IS the last time, I get tired of repeating myself, Vances plan at least Vances plan has a starting point that might get Putin to the table. Harris has given us NOTHING.

And the world has done nothing to stop him or negotiate with him. And if anyone thinks they will get Putin to the table offering nothing and punishments. They should think again.

Is it possible that Putin may decide even after negotiations that he's not going to stop? Sure. If that's the case the world needs to step in and not just the US. We should be done funding foreign wars for the most part. If we really want global solutions it's takes a global initiative.