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Potential Peace deal between Russia and Ukraine was blocked by Biden-Harris official in 2022

Vambram

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There could have been a negotiated peace between Ukraine and Russia which would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives.
 

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There could have been a negotiated peace between Ukraine and Russia which would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives.
It would be cool to see the peace deal terms (as in on a PDF or online document), but yes, any peace deal would be better than no peace deal at all. This war has been raging on for over 2.5 years, and has got to come to an end. February 2025 would mark three years of war between Russia and Ukraine.

Map of war as of September 11, 2024:
Red = Russian occupied. Yellow = secured by Ukraine. Blue = Recaptured by Ukraine
1726192990532.png


BBC is tracking the war. So far, it looks like the end is not in sight:
 
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Hans Blaster

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I am unable to open this page, but the apparent opening line looks like it was written by a Kremlin ally:

"Anti-Russia warmonger and recent Biden-Harris official Victoria Nuland..."

The Kremlin is obsessed with Nuland.
 
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Offline4Better.

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I am unable to open this page, but the apparent opening line looks like it was written by a Kremlin ally:

"Anti-Russia warmonger and recent Biden-Harris official Victoria Nuland..."

The Kremlin is obsessed with Nuland.
That is bad. So, what you are saying is that the article could be written by a guy who supports the Kremlin? That is bad. We should not be supporting the Kremlin, and neither should that journalist who wrote the article. We must be supporting peace, which means not supporting the Kremlin, but instead developing a compromise solution. If that means the Kremlin must be reformed with a democracy, ousting Putin and his cronies, or if Ukraine makes a compromise on their side, that means we must pursue ways to make peace.
 
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Vambram

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That is bad. So, what you are saying is that the article could be written by a guy who supports the Kremlin? That is bad. We should not be supporting the Kremlin, and neither should that journalist who wrote the article. We must be supporting peace, which means not supporting the Kremlin, but instead developing a compromise solution. If that means the Kremlin must be reformed with a democracy, ousting Putin and his cronies, or if Ukraine makes a compromise on their side, that means we must pursue ways to make peace.
The article was not written by a man who supports the Kremlin. It was written by an American who is putting forth the truth that a negotiated peace deal which could have resulted in peace between Russia and Ukraine was blocked by diplomats from Western nations.
 
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The article was not written by a man who supports the Kremlin. It was written by an American who is putting forth the truth that a negotiated peace deal which could have resulted in peace between Russia and Ukraine was blocked by diplomats from Western nations.
I do agree we need a peace deal. It would be nice if the journalist put a link to the peace deal file itself, so readers could decide whether the peace deal is feasible, but I know nothing about foreign affairs, so I can not say whether the peace deal was good or not. What percentage of Ukraine's land must be given up in order for peace to be maintained? How many Russian bases in Ukraine (Crimea) must be withdrawn or occupied for the deal to occur? These are complex questions that I did wish the journalist put forth. :)
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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There could have been a negotiated peace between Ukraine and Russia which would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives.
Know what else would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives? If Russia hadn't illegally invaded and killed\caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in Ukraine.
 
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SimplyMe

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That is a very one sided written article. First, in no way does it support the idea that the Biden administration "blocked" any Peace Deal. In fact, it would seem to be Boris Johnson that was the primary person who was telling Ukraine not to accept the deal.

In fact, the quote that "proves" that the Biden administration "blocked the deal" is Nuland simply stating, "People inside Ukraine and people outside Ukraine started asking questions about whether this was a good deal, and it was at that point that it fell apart." That would seem to be the first time I've heard of "people asking questions" is the US blocking a peace deal.

And, to be clear, it appears the reason it was not signed is because of a clause that Russia hid in an annex to the main deal -- the annex basically would have required Ukraine to completely demilitarize permanently, while putting no such restrictions on Russia, including near the Ukrainian border. I'm sure it died because of the fear Putin would do like he did previously take this added part of Ukraine (to go along with Crimea which he took a decade ago, now), and in another few years -- once his army has recovered and re-equipped themselves from this current war, and take more of Ukraine. Of course, under that peace deal, Ukraine would have no way to defend themselves and nothing in the treaty would prevent Russia from doing it.

This is a far right wing publication merely trying to spin a story so it hurts Harris in the election.
 
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That is a very one sided written article. First, in no way does it support the idea that the Biden administration "blocked" any Peace Deal. In fact, it would seem to be Boris Johnson that was the primary person who was telling Ukraine not to accept the deal.

In fact, the quote that "proves" that the Biden administration "blocked the deal" is Nuland simply stating, "People inside Ukraine and people outside Ukraine started asking questions about whether this was a good deal, and it was at that point that it fell apart." That would seem to be the first time I've heard of "people asking questions" is the US blocking a peace deal.

And, to be clear, it appears the reason it was not signed is because of a clause that Russia hid in an annex to the main deal -- the annex basically would have required Ukraine to completely demilitarize permanently, while putting no such restrictions on Russia, including near the Ukrainian border. I'm sure it died because of the fear Putin would do like he did previously take this added part of Ukraine (to go along with Crimea which he took a decade ago, now), and in another few years -- once his army has recovered and re-equipped themselves from this current war, and take more of Ukraine. Of course, under that peace deal, Ukraine would have no way to defend themselves and nothing in the treaty would prevent Russia from doing it.

This is a far right wing publication merely trying to spin a story so it hurts Harris in the election.
I agree with you, but in order to be sure, can anyone link the original peace deal document, so we on the forums can read it, and see the clause/annex inside of the peace deal?
 
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Vambram

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Know what else would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives? If Russia hadn't illegally invaded and killed\caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in Ukraine.
Well of course. But nevertheless, a negotiated peace deal should not have been blocked.
 
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Bradskii

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Bradskii

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Well of course. But nevertheless, a negotiated peace deal should not have been blocked.
Do you know what it entailed? Your link is extremely thin on details. If that's all you've read then you're missing a lot of information. Read the article to which I linked above.
 
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Hans Blaster

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The article was not written by a man who supports the Kremlin. It was written by an American who is putting forth the truth that a negotiated peace deal which could have resulted in peace between Russia and Ukraine was blocked by diplomats from Western nations.
Which one? Name him.
 
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Paulos23

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There could have been a negotiated peace between Ukraine and Russia which would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives.
I don't see it that way. Russia wants all of Ukraine, or at least a big chunk of it, Ukraine would like Russia out and to leave them alone.

Which one do you think is the reasonable demand? Which one do you think either side would agree to? Or that the European neighbors would agree to?
 
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RDKirk

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I don't see it that way. Russia wants all of Ukraine, or at least a big chunk of it, Ukraine would like Russia out and to leave them alone.

Which one do you think is the reasonable demand? Which one do you think either side would agree to? Or that the European neighbors would agree to?
Putin has stated in no uncertain terms that Russian control of Ukraine is existential to Russia. As Putin puts it, Russia itself would cease to exist if they cannot control Ukraine. He wrote a treatise to that point which is available on Wikipedia.
 
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Arcangl86

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Well of course. But nevertheless, a negotiated peace deal should not have been blocked.
Are you ok with the US being obligated to come to direct military aid of Ukraine if it were to be attacked again? Because that was part of the proposed deal, that NATO would act as guarantors of Ukraine's security and independence, with specific actions apparently listed in the draft agreement. Of course the West would object to that. It would grant Ukraine the main benefit of NATO membership without any of the obligations.
 
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Paulos23

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Putin has stated in no uncertain terms that Russian control of Ukraine is existential to Russia. As Putin puts it, Russia itself would cease to exist if they cannot control Ukraine. He wrote a treatise to that point which is available on Wikipedia.
That figures. And with Ukraine leaning away from Russia, it is no wonder that Putin had Russia invade Ukraine.

It doesn't mean he has a right to, just that is his reasoning. I think Ukraine should decide for themselves, which they already have several times.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Know what else would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives? If Russia hadn't illegally invaded and killed\caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in Ukraine.

Maybe Biden shouldn't have invited Russia to do so...
 
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Vambram

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