What is Hell?

[HarleyER]

Did you mean to say, once you are resurrected, you are judged, because those verses you quoted refer to the resurrected.

• and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
• The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment
• it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment
• we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ [See Revelation 20:11-15]
• after this comes judgment

Otherwise, they refer to the living.

• The sins of some men are quite evident, going before them to judgment
• For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God
• But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men
• “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment

You never did answer my questions though.
Would you be willing to, please?

• Do you believe Hades and Gehenna are the same thing?
• Do you believe Gehenna and the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14, 15) are the same thing?
• Do you believe Tartarus is the same as Hades, and or Gehenna, and that all these mean hell?
• Is it your belief that the dead are being tormented, in Hades, but not the sea, and death?
• How do the dead come out of Hades?

I would really appreciate if you could answer those questions for me. Thanks.

• Do you believe Hades and Gehenna are the same thing? (Yes)
• Do you believe Gehenna and the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14, 15) are the same thing? (Yes)
• Do you believe Tartarus is the same as Hades, and or Gehenna, and that all these mean hell? (Don't know. Tartarus seems to be a different place than the Lake of Fire.)
• Is it your belief that the dead are being tormented, in Hades, but not the sea, and death? (I'm not sure I understand your question. Are the dead being tormented? Does this mean now? I'm not sure how this all works just the way I'm not sure where the thief on the cross is (paradise or heaven???). All I do know is that someday, Satan, his demons, and any unbelievers will be cast into the Lake of Fire according to Revelation 20:14, 15 and other verses.)
• How do the dead come out of Hades? (Don't know. Heaven and hell are both a mystery that we are not meant to fully grasp. All we do know is that believers will be judged for their good deeds and enter into rest. Unbelievers will be judged for their unbelieve and will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Heaven is a very nice place. The Lake of Fire, not so much.)

Now, I'd like you to explain Matthew 28 to me:

32 And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, but the goats on the left.​

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 And when did we see You as a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of Mine, you did it for Me.’​

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or as a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”​

​

What exactly is "eternal punishment" as compared to those who "inherit the kingdom prepared for you".

 

[ozso]

Why does a soul have to be immortal to receive judgment? Simply because it states that judgment doesn't come until AFTER you die. There is no point in receiving judgment if there is nothing to judge.

You're assuming from John 3 that "eternal life" equates to immortality only for believers AND everyone else just disappears. That is not the case. Everyone will appear before the judgment seat of Christ.

Granted. But that doesn't mean the soul of the unbeliever continues throughout eternity. I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm just asking you to prove your position. Matthew 10:28 says God is able to destroy our soul.

Then there are passages like:

2 Thessalonians 1:9
These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power

 

[ozso]

Someone described, and explained the steps of the scientific method in three minutes.
You wouldn't need someone to take an hour and thirty four minutes to describe, and explain the scientific method to you, would you?

Thanks for your description, and explanation of hell, using the Hebrew scriptures... in less than a minute.
So basically, hell is the grave of mankind.

Could you take at least five minutes of your time to reference at least 3 scriptures that show hell refers to the grave? Thank you.
That would seal your explanation. Thank you.


Yes, those are some interesting interpretations.
What about the Christian Greek scriptures... Do you explain these as describing hell as the grave, also?

Being snarky isn't a very good way to solicit input.

 

[HarleyER]

Why does a soul have to be immortal to receive judgment? Simply because it states that judgment doesn't come until AFTER you die. There is no point in receiving judgment if there is nothing to judge.

You're assuming from John 3 that "eternal life" equates to immortality only for believers AND everyone else just disappears. That is not the case. Everyone will appear before the judgment seat of Christ.

Granted. But that doesn't mean the soul of the unbeliever continues throughout eternity. I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm just asking you to prove your position. Matthew 10:28 says God is able to destroy our soul.

Then there are passages like:

2 Thessalonians 1:9
These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power

In post #21 I quoted from Matthew 21. Matthew 21 concludes with this warning from Jesus:

46 These [sic: unbelievers] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”​

​

So, yes I'm saying that the soul of the unbeliever continues throughout eternity. They are contrasted against the righteous who goes into eternal life. One, eternal punishment. The other eternal life. At least that is what the Lord Jesus stated-not me. One would think this would be proof enough.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Please describe and explain what hell is, using scriptures.
Thank you?

Edit:
All posts not having an explanation, description, and scripture, will be ignored... starting with @Clare73.
Thank you.

Since sin is lawlessness (1 John 3:4), and hell is where the lawless go, we can jump to the simple conclusion then that hell is the place without God's law - in it's fullest form and without constraints.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Hell, roughly used to refer to all the horrible places we can go to when we die. The consequence of sin and doing evil or no good.

There is the grave, if buried after death, and after a life loving the pleasures of the flesh, we taste the body in it's natural state, decomposition. There is no praise there, cold, darkness.

Howard Storm and others in their NDEs see a group of shadowy people calling them as they leave their body in their hospital ward. They are spirits, they see, and can travel. The shadowy spirits are described as once having been human. They took Howard down a corridor into increasing darkness. They becoming happily violent and tore him and raped him leaving him on the floor in in a gore state, as they discussed what to do next he heard he must pray, as an atheist it took him a moment, but he did, and a light came and lifted him out, healed. That was a layer of Hell.

Others describe a lake burning with fire and sulfur. Dungeons, a desk and judge, demons holding and cutting them. They check them by name and birth date, sometimes the demons pick the wrong ones. They return to life and testify.

There are descriptions of a brown colonnade and a desk. Fire burning on either side.

A stinking place, alluded to in Jonah ch 2.

Mocking, sexually perverse, violent demonic spirits, work there. Sadists.

A place of fire that destroys the spirit body and then heals it, over and over. Seems a fitting penalty for a vain spirit.

A fake paradise, where you meet your deceased grandma, but she turns out to become increasingly hostile.

Gloomy dungeons. 2 Peter 2:4

From the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Hell, a gulf and then paradise. Luke 16:19-31

A place where they are in torment and there is a left and right, the right suffers less. Matthew 25:41

Suicide attempt NDE survivors describe a few places, they learn from the gloomy place or see a kind of vision of the people they let down and left behind, and return to life with renewed purpose. The gloomy place contained a plane and hundreds of other suicide victims squatting and staring into space unresponsive. Or people walking around but fully attention consumed within themselves. Or a vehement hateful spirit shows them, with the dungeon, into a time pool, and they see the future above without them. One man OD and split into seven presences and saw various outcomes.

There is a Pit of maximum pain. Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelations 9:1,2,11

Revelation 5:3 and Philippians 2:10

 

[ozso]

In post #21 I quoted from Matthew 21. Matthew 21 concludes with this warning from Jesus:

46 These [sic: unbelievers] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”​

​

So, yes I'm saying that the soul of the unbeliever continues throughout eternity. They are contrasted against the righteous who goes into eternal life. One, eternal punishment. The other eternal life. At least that is what the Lord Jesus stated-not me. One would think this would be proof enough.

Well we have one verse (Matt 25:46) vs numerous verses of everlasting life for the the saved vs perishing and destruction for the unsaved.

And even in Matt 25:46 it's And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life which again is specifying eternal life for the saved. And the finality of death and destruction is permanent.

Also there's also the argument that aion-aionios (eternal everlasting) can be translated as age-during, and kolasis (punishment) can be translated as chastisement or correction.

Not that I'm arguing against the view you're presenting, which is the orthodox traditional view. I'm just pointing out there are other views existing within Christianity.

 

[CoreyD]

Being snarky isn't a very good way to solicit input.

I agree.
Obviously, you for some reason came to the conclusion that my post is snarky.
I don't know why. I would really be appreciative if you can point out where in my post is snarky.

I did not say yours was, although I thought you were as you put it, "being snarky" here - Sorry, I thought you wanted a thorough understanding of the subject.

Our brains might be working weirdly.
I sure was not being snarky, and I am sure you would say the same.

The Devil has a way of interfering with civil conversation, to try to disrupt it... especially when he is invited, or his presence certified.
Question is, do we welcome him?

 

[ozso]

I agree.
Obviously, you for some reason came to the conclusion that my post is snarky.
I don't know why. I would really be appreciative if you can point out where in my post is snarky.

Our brains might be working weirdly.
I sure was not being snarky, and I am sure you would say the same.

The Devil has a way of interfering with civil conversation, to try to disrupt it... especially when he is invited, or his presence certified.
Question is, do we welcome him?

I'll go ahead and start over.

 

[ozso]

Someone described, and explained the steps of the scientific method in three minutes.
You wouldn't need someone to take an hour and thirty four minutes to describe, and explain the scientific method to you, would you?

This is a subject I've studied going back 16 years so I know it to be pretty complicated as a whole. I know Steve Gregg and he wouldn't put any more or less time into a lecture than was necessary.

Thanks for your description, and explanation of hell, using the Hebrew scriptures... in less than a minute.
So basically, hell is the grave of mankind.

"Hell" is a one size fits all word for different things/places. Briefly stated it basically comes from the Germanic "hel" for "to cover" is in helmet.

Could you take at least five minutes of your time to reference at least 3 scriptures that show hell refers to the grave? Thank you.
That would seal your explanation. Thank you.

Anytime you see "hell" in the Old Testament, it's a translation of the word Sheol (שְּׁאֹ֣ול). The definition of which is: underworld (place to which people descend at death). It's never used in the Old Testament to describe a place of punishment, or torment, or fire.

Yes, those are some interesting interpretations.
What about the Christian Greek scriptures... Do you explain these as describing hell as the grave, also?

The New Testament written in Koine Greek doesn't use the word Hebrew word Sheol. I'm not sure at the moment what the Greek word used in the Septuagint (Greek translation of the Old Testament) is but it's probably Hades. In the New Testament what collectively gets translated as "hell" in some bibles are the words Gehenna, Hades and Tartarus

I've linked each word to where it appears in scripture according to Young's Literal Translation (YLT).

From the lexicon:

Gehenna: a valley west and South of Jerusalem, also a symbolic name for the final place of punishment of the ungodly
Usage: Gehenna, and originally the name of a valley or cavity near Jerusalem, a place underneath the earth, a place of punishment for evil.

Hades: the abode of departed spirits. Usage: Hades, the unseen world.

Tartarus: to cast into hell. Usage: I thrust down to Tartarus or Gehenna.

Sheol and Hades seem to be a pretty close match.

 

[CoreyD]

Thank you for answering the questions.

• Do you believe Hades and Gehenna are the same thing? (Yes)
• Do you believe Gehenna and the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14, 15) are the same thing? (Yes)

If you believe Hades, Grehenna, and the lake of fire are the same thing, then this is how Revelation 20:13, 14 would read for you.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into [hell, which is] the lake of fire. This is the second death.

How would you explain that?

• Do you believe Tartarus is the same as Hades, and or Gehenna, and that all these mean hell? (Don't know. Tartarus seems to be a different place than the Lake of Fire.)

May I ask, how do you go about knowing?
Do you use a Hebrew/Greek dictionary, or do just read a Bible translation... perhaps KJV?

• Is it your belief that the dead are being tormented, in Hades, but not the sea, and death? (I'm not sure I understand your question. Are the dead being tormented? Does this mean now? I'm not sure how this all works just the way I'm not sure where the thief on the cross is (paradise or heaven???). All I do know is that someday, Satan, his demons, and any unbelievers will be cast into the Lake of Fire according to Revelation 20:14, 15 and other verses.)

Thanks for your honesty.
I'm curious... Do you work these things out for yourself, and the conclusion you reach, you decide is correct, or do you listen to particular pastors/preachers, and accept what they say.

I asked, because, it seems to me, you try to understand these things on your own.

To clarify my question...
At Revelation 20:13, we read...

• And the sea gave up the dead which were in it;
• and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:

and they were judged every man according to their works.

When it says the sea gave up the dead which were in it, you agree, I hope, that this is saying the dead in the sea are resurrected.
When it says death delivered up the dead, hopefully we agree that this is saying the dead are freed from death at the resurrection.
When it says hell delivered up the dead which were in it, hopefully we agree the dead come out of hell at their resurrection.

What I am asking is, since you believe that hell is a place of torment, does that mean that the persons dead in the sea are not tormented, but only those in Hades - which people call hell?
Is that any clearer. You may have to think about it.

• How do the dead come out of Hades? (Don't know. Heaven and hell are both a mystery that we are not meant to fully grasp. All we do know is that believers will be judged for their good deeds and enter into rest. Unbelievers will be judged for their unbelieve and will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Heaven is a very nice place. The Lake of Fire, not so much.)

Can I ask why you have concluded that heaven and hell are both a mystery that we are not meant to fully grasp? How did you reach your conclusion?
Is it that you do not understand many things, so you decided, what you do not understand must be a mystery, or has someone told you this... perhaps a pastor/preacher?

True, we do not want to go to the lake of fire.
Do you know what the lake of fire is? It is written for us. have you ever read it?

Now, I'd like you to explain Matthew 28 to me:

32 And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, but the goats on the left.​

34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 And when did we see You as a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it for one of the least of these brothers or sisters of Mine, you did it for Me.’​

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or as a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”​

​

What exactly is "eternal punishment" as compared to those who "inherit the kingdom prepared for you".

Thanks for asking.
The son of man - Jesus Christ, comes with his angels to judge the nations.
The Bible refers to this day at Revelation 16:14-16; 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, and many other prophecies.

Those Jesus identifies as sheep - obedient; faithful; righteous; These get life. That is, they remain forever, on earth. 1 John 2:17; Proverbs 2:21, 22; Psalm 37:34
Those Jesus identify as goats - disobedient; unfaithful; wicked; These are cut off in death - everlasting death, which is Gehenna - the lake of fire.

The scripture at 2 Thessalonians 1:9; 2 Peter 3:7, and others, which refer to the same judgment day, all refer to destruction that is final.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 Interlinear: who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,

Strong's Greek: 3639. ὄλεθρος (olethros) -- Destruction, ruin

2 Peter 3:7 Interlinear: and the present heavens and the earth, by the same word are treasured, for fire being kept to a day of judgment and destruction of the impious men.

Strong's Greek: 684. ἀπώλεια (apóleia) -- Destruction, ruin, loss, perdition

I asked you earlier if you knew what the Bible says the lake of fire is.
The Bible says... This is the second death - the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14
It is death. The second death - the final one, for which there is no coming back.

 

[CoreyD]

Since sin is lawlessness (1 John 3:4), and hell is where the lawless go, we can jump to the simple conclusion then that hell is the place without God's law - in it's fullest form and without constraints.

Job went to hell, didn't he, as well as other righteous men, including Jesus.
Jesus was without sin, and Job was referred to as blameless. Some translations used the word 'perfect'.
So, it's not just the lawless that go to hell, if you take the KJV's rendering of the Hebrew word Sheol, and the Greek word Hades.

 

[ozso]

Job went to hell, didn't he, as well as other righteous men, including Jesus.
Jesus was without sin, and Job was referred to as blameless. Some translations used the word 'perfect'.
So, it's not just the lawless that go to hell, if you take the KJV's rendering of the Hebrew word Sheol, and the Greek word Hades.

Jonah 2:2
And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

In some cases in the OT the term is used figuratively.

In Jonah 2:6 he describes it being forever. So basically in Jonah 2 he describes being in the fish's belly as being in hell for eternity.

 

[ozso]

Thank you for answering the questions.


If you believe Hades, Grehenna, and the lake of fire are the same thing, then this is how Revelation 20:13, 14 would read for you.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into [hell, which is] the lake of fire. This is the second death.

How would you explain that?

The traditional idea is "hell" up until the final judgement is a place with two compartments. Hades where the Rich Man ended up, and Abraham's Bosom where Lazarus ended up, as described in Luke 16:19-31. At the time of judgment those who are in the Hades compartment are thrown into the Lake of Fire and then the compartment itself is also thrown into the LoF.

 

[HarleyER]

Well we have one verse (Matt 25:46) vs numerous verses of everlasting life for the the saved vs perishing and destruction for the unsaved.

And even in Matt 25:46 it's And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life which again is specifying eternal life for the saved. And the finality of death and destruction is permanent.

Also there's also the argument that aion-aionios (eternal everlasting) can be translated as age-during, and kolasis (punishment) can be translated as chastisement or correction.

Not that I'm arguing against the view you're presenting, which is the orthodox traditional view. I'm just pointing out there are other views existing within Christianity.

It isn't one verse. It is an entire dialogue that starts in Matthew 25:31-46 that is being ignored. Not only does Christ tells unbelievers they are going into eternal punishment in Matt 25:46 ( 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”) but He said it in his opening remarks in Matt 25:41 (41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels. So He states it twice. Quite frankly, I'm not sure how many times He needs to repeat Himself. This is exactly what is stated in Revelation 20 ( 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.) The devil, his angels, and unbelievers are cast into the Lake of Fire (which is, according to Christ, eternal punishment).

We can get into all the gobbledygook nonsense of Greek and Hebrew, and the obfuscation of picking and choosing hell, hades, sheol, etc. But there is nothing in the verses in Matthew 25 that suggest the "finality of death and destruction" is permanent. You can't have eternal punishment if you're not around. What's more, eternal punishment is contrast against heavenly joy. So if you are going to compare apples to apples, you would have to say there is no heaven reward because everyone is simply going to go "POOF".

There are lots (and lots) of people out there that will tell you anything. This has been going on since the Judaizers tried to convince people they needed to be circumcised to be saved.

There are no views in orthodox Christianity which believes as you are suggesting that I'm aware of. And when you have the clear teachings of the Scriptures, and the traditional teachings of the church, then it might be a sign that one has gone off the rails.

 

[HarleyER]

Thank you for answering the questions.


If you believe Hades, Grehenna, and the lake of fire are the same thing, then this is how Revelation 20:13, 14 would read for you.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into [hell, which is] the lake of fire. This is the second death.

How would you explain that?


May I ask, how do you go about knowing?
Do you use a Hebrew/Greek dictionary, or do just read a Bible translation... perhaps KJV?


Thanks for your honesty.
I'm curious... Do you work these things out for yourself, and the conclusion you reach, you decide is correct, or do you listen to particular pastors/preachers, and accept what they say.

I asked, because, it seems to me, you try to understand these things on your own.

To clarify my question...
At Revelation 20:13, we read...

• And the sea gave up the dead which were in it;
• and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:

and they were judged every man according to their works.

When it says the sea gave up the dead which were in it, you agree, I hope, that this is saying the dead in the sea are resurrected.
When it says death delivered up the dead, hopefully we agree that this is saying the dead are freed from death at the resurrection.
When it says hell delivered up the dead which were in it, hopefully we agree the dead come out of hell at their resurrection.

What I am asking is, since you believe that hell is a place of torment, does that mean that the persons dead in the sea are not tormented, but only those in Hades - which people call hell?
Is that any clearer. You may have to think about it.


Can I ask why you have concluded that heaven and hell are both a mystery that we are not meant to fully grasp? How did you reach your conclusion?
Is it that you do not understand many things, so you decided, what you do not understand must be a mystery, or has someone told you this... perhaps a pastor/preacher?

True, we do not want to go to the lake of fire.
Do you know what the lake of fire is? It is written for us. have you ever read it?


Thanks for asking.
The son of man - Jesus Christ, comes with his angels to judge the nations.
The Bible refers to this day at Revelation 16:14-16; 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, and many other prophecies.

Those Jesus identifies as sheep - obedient; faithful; righteous; These get life. That is, they remain forever, on earth. 1 John 2:17; Proverbs 2:21, 22; Psalm 37:34
Those Jesus identify as goats - disobedient; unfaithful; wicked; These are cut off in death - everlasting death, which is Gehenna - the lake of fire.

The scripture at 2 Thessalonians 1:9; 2 Peter 3:7, and others, which refer to the same judgment day, all refer to destruction that is final.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 Interlinear: who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,

Strong's Greek: 3639. ὄλεθρος (olethros) -- Destruction, ruin

2 Peter 3:7 Interlinear: and the present heavens and the earth, by the same word are treasured, for fire being kept to a day of judgment and destruction of the impious men.

Strong's Greek: 684. ἀπώλεια (apóleia) -- Destruction, ruin, loss, perdition

I asked you earlier if you knew what the Bible says the lake of fire is.
The Bible says... This is the second death - the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14
It is death. The second death - the final one, for which there is no coming back.

How would you explain that?

Please read post #35. I would explain Revelation 20 in context to Matthew 25:34-46.

May I ask, how do you go about knowing? Do you use a Hebrew/Greek dictionary, or do just read a Bible translation... perhaps KJV?

1) I look at the text in question (NASB or ESV)
2) I look at any cross references that might clarify the verse with other Scripture.
3) Then I look at the Greek/Hebrew versions (through online tools) to see if they offer any insight
4) Finally I review commentaries and traditional teachings to ensure I have a correct understanding.

If there are no cross references to a particular verse or phrase, and if the Greek/Hebrew offers no clue, and if the commentaries vary in their interpretation, I leave it alone. It is dangerous to speculate.

When it says the sea gave up the dead which were in it, you agree, I hope, that this is saying the dead in the sea are resurrected.

No, I would not agree. I have yet to find ANYONE who can interpret Revelation and make sense of it. I don't believe in a literal interpretation of Revelation simply because I don't think some gigantic beast is going to arise with 10 horns. However, as you will see in post #35, you can compare Revelation 20:14-15 with Matthew 25:41,46. In all cases, it talks about unbelievers being thrown into the lake of fire with the devil and his demons. If the lake of fire was simply cutting people off in death, then you would 1) deny eternal punishment as stated in Matthew 25, and 2) eternal punishment for Satan and his demons since they will also be in the lake of fire.

 

[ozso]

It isn't one verse. It is an entire dialogue that starts in Matthew 25:31-46 that is being ignored. Not only does Christ tells unbelievers they are going into eternal punishment in Matt 25:46 ( 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”) but He said it in his opening remarks in Matt 25:41 (41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels. So He states it twice. Quite frankly, I'm not sure how many times He needs to repeat Himself. This is exactly what is stated in Revelation 20 ( 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.) The devil, his angels, and unbelievers are cast into the Lake of Fire (which is, according to Christ, eternal punishment).

We can get into all the gobbledygook nonsense of Greek and Hebrew, and the obfuscation of picking and choosing hell, hades, sheol, etc. But there is nothing in the verses in Matthew 25 that suggest the "finality of death and destruction" is permanent. You can't have eternal punishment if you're not around. What's more, eternal punishment is contrast against heavenly joy. So if you are going to compare apples to apples, you would have to say there is no heaven reward because everyone is simply going to go "POOF".

There are lots (and lots) of people out there that will tell you anything. This has been going on since the Judaizers tried to convince people they needed to be circumcised to be saved.

There are no views in orthodox Christianity which believes as you are suggesting that I'm aware of. And when you have the clear teachings of the Scriptures, and the traditional teachings of the church, then it might be a sign that one has gone off the rails.

So in Matthew 25:31-46 what's required to obtain eternal life?

 

[HarleyER]

So in Matthew 25:31-46 what's required to obtain eternal life?

That is a poor way to read the Scriptures. If nothing else, the coming of the Messiah was spelled out in various places throughout the Old Testament. Why would you think multiple doctrines should be listed in 17 verses? Matthew 25 is talking about judgment.

As far as where you can find what you need to do to inherit eternal life, then you might check the following:

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”​

John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”​

In Matthew 25:31-46 we find that those who inherit eternal life kept Christ's commandments unknowingly as part of the work of the Holy Spirit who is sealed inside each believer:

Matthew 25:38 And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’​

Those who don't belong to Christ face eternal punishment.

 

[ozso]

That is a poor way to read the Scriptures. If nothing else, the coming of the Messiah was spelled out in various places throughout the Old Testament. Why would you think multiple doctrines should be listed in 17 verses? Matthew 25 is talking about judgment.

As far as where you can find what you need to do to inherit eternal life, then you might check the following:

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”​

John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”​

In Matthew 25:31-46 we find that those who inherit eternal life kept Christ's commandments unknowingly as part of the work of the Holy Spirit who is sealed inside each believer:

Matthew 25:38 And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’​

Those who don't belong to Christ face eternal punishment.

That seems to evade my question rather than answer it. However I won't go any further with this.

 

[HarleyER]

That seems to evade my question rather than answer it. However I won't go any further with this.

No, I didn't evade your question. I did answer it. You're asking for the entire gospel written in 17 verses in Matthew 25. The Scriptures don't work that way.

I showed you specifically where it tells us the faith of unbelievers and believers (Matt 25). Apart from all this idle speculation about various names (e.g. sheol, hell, gihanna, etc), I have yet to see any verses on where unbelieving souls are destroyed.

Hell, according to Scripture, is a real place where the devil, his demons, and unbelievers will spend eternity in constant torment, as uncomfortable as this might make you feel for whatever reason. This is why we are called to evangelized. People who state otherwise are simply spreading a false gospel.