The husband of our vice president is telling men to "step up" to defend the right to kill a child. Real men will see through this evil charade.

[NxNW]

No, it means you can’t execute them without due process.

Equal rights means the woman can't be forced to donate her body as an incubator.

It's an eviction, not an execution. I don't need due process to eject an unwelcome intruder from my house at gunpoint. If they freeze to death in a snowstorm, they should have thought of that before invading my property.

 

[NxNW]

Someone not getting a organ donation isn’t being actively murdered.

The unborn isn't entitled to a womb donation.

Besides, the mother already agreed to have her body used if she agrees to have unprotected consensual sex.

She didn't agree to anything, since the unborn didn't exist at the time she was having sex. You can't have an agreement with "someone" who doesn't exist.

 

[Hammster]

Neither does a teen who needs a kidney and can't get one because nobody volunteers to donate in time. It doesn't change the argument.

And nobody is actually killing the teen. This scenario isn’t even in the same category.

 

[Hammster]

I have no problems with people having abortions. I do have problems with government forcing people not to have abortions.
I think govt should let people make their own decisions. Govt should instead focus on infrastructure like roads, schools, hospitals, healthcare, economy, that sort of stuff.

Government really needs to stop worrying about murder, child abuse, etc, and fix my roads

 

[Hammster]

This is where we differ.

You want government to force YOUR moral standards onto everyone in society.
whereas I want government to make sure society is safe, stable and thriving for its citizens and visitors.

But it’s okay for you to force your moral standard on people? Okay.

 

[Hammster]

But the pregnant woman loses the right to make her own medical decisions in the process. So her rights are diminished, and the embryo gets rights no other person has, under any circumstances.

Ah. You see murder as a medical decision. Well, it isn’t.

Not equal.

-- A2SG, still haven't shown me how anyone has the right to use your body or its resources without your permission or consent....

It was her body, her choice when she engaged in the activity that caused the pregnancy. Only one baby was immaculately conceived.

 

[Hammster]

Equal rights means the woman can't be forced to donate her body as an incubator.

And she’s not. She made the choice to have sex.

It's an eviction, not an execution. I don't need due process to eject an unwelcome intruder from my house at gunpoint. If they freeze to death in a snowstorm, they should have thought of that before invading my property.

A baby isn’t an intruder. And they aren’t being evicted. They are being murdered.

 

[A2SG]

Ah. You see murder as a medical decision. Well, it isn’t.

True enough, murder isn't a medical decision. It's a legal issue. Abortion, on the other hand, is a medical decision, regardless of your personal views on the morality of it.

Then again, unless you're the one who's pregnant, your personal views on morality don't figure into the decision one way or the other.

It was her body,

It never ceases being her body, not even during pregnancy.

her choice when she engaged in the activity that caused the pregnancy.

Consent to sex doesn't imply a consent to pregnancy. They're separate decisions.

Only one baby was immaculately conceived.

I don't recall anyone saying anything about the way she got pregnant. That seems entirely irrelevant.

-- A2SG, certainly, I never said a word about it....

 

[Hammster]

Consent to sex doesn't imply a consent to pregnancy. They're separate decisions.

I see. You are in the “no consequences for my actions” camp. Yep, that’s what got us here.

 

[A2SG]

I see. You are in the “no consequences for my actions” camp.

Not at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Then again, I never said anything even remotely like that, so how you jumped to that conclusion is a mystery to me.

-- A2SG, sure seemed to come out of nowhere....

 

[Hammster]

Not at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Then again, I never said anything even remotely like that, so how you jumped to that conclusion is a mystery to me.

-- A2SG, sure seemed to come out of nowhere....

You didn’t say it. But that is your argument.

 

[A2SG]

You didn’t say it. But that is your argument.

No, it isn't. Not in any way, shape or form.

-- A2SG, which is why I never said anything remotely close to it....

 

[stevil]

But it’s okay for you to force your moral standard on people? Okay.

I have no interest in forcing my moral standard on anyone.

 

[stevil]

Government really needs to stop worrying about murder, child abuse, etc, and fix my roads

This is idiotic. Certainly not thought through.
If people are able to go around murdering each other, your society wont be safe, stable or thriving. So it is the government's job to stop that stuff.

However, with people having abortions, it doesn't lead to people being scared for their lives, it doesn't lead to loved ones being murdered, it doesn't lead to retaliation killings, it doesn't lead to gangs and violence.
Your neighbor has an abortion, odds are you know nothing about it. The parents, friends etc of the aborted fetus doesn't seek payback. Everyone just gets on with their lives as though nothing has happened.

 

[Hammster]

No, it isn't. Not in any way, shape or form.

-- A2SG, which is why I never said anything remotely close to it....

It’s your position, though. Maybe you’ve just never connected the dots. Well, unless you don’t think women are educated enough to know how pregnancy works.

 

[Hammster]

I have no interest in forcing my moral standard on anyone.

Do you think it is wrong to have anti-abortion laws?

 

[Hammster]

This is idiotic. Certainly not thought through.
If people are able to go around murdering each other, your society wont be safe, stable or thriving. So it is the government's job to stop that stuff.

So NOW they can get involved in people’s decisions.

However, with people having abortions, it doesn't lead to people being scared for their lives, it doesn't lead to loved ones being murdered, it doesn't lead to retaliation killings, it doesn't lead to gangs and violence.

Well, we don’t know if the unborn are scared, true. But they are murdered. And in a lot of cases, loved.

Your neighbor has an abortion, odds are you know nothing about it. The parents, friends etc of the aborted fetus doesn't seek payback. Everyone just gets on with their lives as though nothing has happened.

I see. So the standard for murder is only if nobody knows about it. Then it’s okay.

 

[KCfromNC]

Having very strong desires doesn’t mean they should act on them.

Does that include the desire to create laws enforcing one's morality onto other people's health care choices?

 

[KCfromNC]

Except the couple chose to have sex and someone else was conceived.

This logic applies equally to the "teenager needs a kidney" situation. And I don't know of anyone advocating for government intervention to force parents to donate organs to their kids. So there seems to be a bit of a double standard for some reason.

 

[stevil]

So NOW they can get involved in people’s decisions.

I don't know why you do this? It's not an honest way to communicate or discuss things with people.

I have never said we shouldn't have laws at all.

Well, we don’t know if the unborn are scared, true. But they are murdered. And in a lot of cases, loved.

Doesn't matter if they are scared and doesn't matter if they are killed. It doesn't lead to any social disharmony, it doesn't lead to retaliation, doesn't lead to feuds or wars. Its not a matter for the government.

I see. So the standard for murder is only if nobody knows about it. Then it’s okay.

Murder is a very loaded word. I assume you are smart enough to know that murder is a legal term that the justice system uses. Abortions are not deemed as murder, just as self defense isn't murder, just as exactions aren't murder, just as euthanasia isn't murder.
I'm not making statements about whether something is okay. Just statements about whether it is the government's business or not.