Rev 6:1,2 First Seal

[Marilyn C]

Hi Marilyn, Thanks for clarifying. Where in the text are you getting (1) that the global earthquake in Revelation 16:18 is called a woe to the inhabiters of the earth ? (2) Also, the third woe is to be announced by the seventh angel who was given a trumpet. The earthquake in Revelation 16:18 takes place when the seventh vial of God's wrath is poured out - not trumpet sounding.


Yes, in the middle of the 7 years (I would not call the 7 years - the "trib" though). Satan cast down to earth is said to be... "woe to the inhabiters of the earth and sea. The key word to look for is "woe", as in Revelation 8:13, it is said....

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Yes, the 3rd woe is when the 7th trumpet sounds and the kingdoms of the earth become the Lords. We then have parathesis of Rev. 12 & 13.

Rev. 14 onwards then shows the detail of the kingdoms becoming the Lords - the proclamations, the bowls of wrath and with the 7th bowl it coincides with the 7th trumpet, thus being the 3rd woe - noises, thunderings, lightnings, earthquake & hail etc (Rev. 11: 19 & 16: 18 - 21)

Yes, I would call the 7 years for Israel and 6.11 for the trib.

 

[Douggg]

Yes, the 3rd woe is when the 7th trumpet sounds and the kingdoms of the earth become the Lords. We then have parathesis of Rev. 12 & 13.

Rev. 14 onwards then shows the detail of the kingdoms becoming the Lords - the proclamations, the bowls of wrath and with the 7th bowl it coincides with the 7th trumpet, thus being the 3rd woe - noises, thunderings, lightnings, earthquake & hail etc (Rev. 11: 19 & 16: 18 - 21)

Yes, I would call the 7 years for Israel and 6.11 for the trib.

Marilyn, what woe number is....

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn, what woe number is....

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

I see what you are saying. However, I see the devil being cast to the earth as the first woe, as shown in Rev. 9: 1 - 12.

You see I believe the 7 trumpets are an overview of what is to come. Then we are given the details.

 

[Marilyn C]

 

[Douggg]

I see what you are saying. However, I see the devil being cast to the earth as the first woe, as shown in Rev. 9: 1 - 12.

You see I believe the 7 trumpets are an overview of what is to come. Then we are given the details.

I agree that the angel (star) falling from heaven in Revelation 9:1 is Satan cast down to earth.

When he gets cast down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9, he is probably tossed the key to the bottomless pit to release his cohorts as the time for their end will have come as well. So Satan opens the bottomless pit and begins his wrath on the inabiters of the earth with the flesh tormenting locust (perhaps demons) creatures.

If you look again at this schematic, the time, times, half time begins slightly before the 5th trump 1 woe period.

 

[Marilyn C]

I agree that the angel (star) falling from heaven in Revelation 9:1 is Satan cast down to earth.

When he gets cast down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9, he is probably tossed the key to the bottomless pit to release his cohorts as the time for their end will have come as well. So Satan opens the bottomless pit and begins his wrath on the inabiters of the earth with the flesh tormenting locust (perhaps demons) creatures.

If you look again at this schematic, the time, times, half time begins slightly before the 5th trump 1 woe period.


View attachment 353786

I agree except I see the 7th angel sounding as at the end of the trib. You see it is then that the Kingdoms of the earth become the Lords.

So, the 3 woes.

1. Woe 1 - Satan cast to earth. (Rev. 9: 1, 12: 12, 9: 12)

2. Woe 2 - Great earthquake. (Rev. 11: 13. 16: 18 - 21. 11: 14)

3. Woe 3 - Christ`s coming and judgment. (Rev. 11: 14 - 19. 19: 11 - 21. Zech. 14: 12)

How do you see the 3 woes, Douggg?

 

[Douggg]

I agree except I see the 7th angel sounding as at the end of the trib. You see it is then that the Kingdoms of the earth become the Lords.

So, the 3 woes.

1. Woe 1 - Satan cast to earth. (Rev. 9: 1, 12: 12, 9: 12)

2. Woe 2 - Great earthquake. (Rev. 11: 13. 16: 18 - 21. 11: 14)

3. Woe 3 - Christ`s coming and judgment. (Rev. 11: 14 - 19. 19: 11 - 21. Zech. 14: 12)

How do you see the 3 woes, Douggg?

Marilyn,

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Now go back to Revelation 11:15, the seventh angel has just sounded. Look at the reaction of those in heaven in Revelation 11:16-17 - they are are rejoicing, right ? Just like it says in Revelation 12:12 above, about when Satan is cast down to earth. What they are rejoicing about is the time of Satan's rule over the kingdoms of this world has come to its end. And the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ.

In the short time Satan will left, over the course of the time, times, times, half time, God will be dismantling Satan's mystical kingdom called Babylon the Great, destroying it. In Revelation 18, Babylon has fallen, has fallen - it is talking about the end of Satan's and his angels mystical kingdom

 

[Douggg]

So, the 3 woes.

1. Woe 1 - Satan cast to earth. (Rev. 9: 1, 12: 12, 9: 12)

2. Woe 2 - Great earthquake. (Rev. 11: 13. 16: 18 - 21. 11: 14)

3. Woe 3 - Christ`s coming and judgment. (Rev. 11: 14 - 19. 19: 11 - 21. Zech. 14: 12)

How do you see the 3 woes, Douggg?

In chronological order.....not textual order.....adhering to a timeline, it would look like this.

Woe 3, Satan cast down to earth having great wrath, lasting a time, times, half time. Until Jesus returns.

Woe 1, When cast down to earth, Satan right away will open the bottomless pit in his wrath, releasing the flesh tormenting locust, lasting 5 months.

Then around three years later, near the end of the 7 years...

Woe 2, Near the end of the 7 years, the kings of the East armies marching west, in a prelude to Armageddon, killing a third of mankind on the way. Probably lasts around a month.

 

[Douggg]

So, the 3 woes.

1. Woe 1 - Satan cast to earth. (Rev. 9: 1, 12: 12, 9: 12)

2. Woe 2 - Great earthquake. (Rev. 11: 13. 16: 18 - 21. 11: 14)

3. Woe 3 - Christ`s coming and judgment. (Rev. 11: 14 - 19. 19: 11 - 21. Zech. 14: 12)

Marilyn,

The first woe is associated with the fifth angel sounding his trumpet

The second woe is associated with the sixth angel sounding his trumpet

The third woe is associated with the seventh angel sounding his trumpet.

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So the first step is to find in the text, the fifth angel sounding, then the sixth angel sounding, then the seventh angel sounding.

That will tell what the woes are numerically.

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The fifth angel sounds in Revelation 9:1 - the first woe is the flesh tormenting locust.

The sixth angel sounds in Revelation 9:13 - the second woe is a third of mankind killed by a huge army of 200,000,000.

The seventh angel sounds in Revelation 11:15 - the third woe shown in Revelation 12:12 - Satan having great wrath, having but a short time left.

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn,

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Now go back to Revelation 11:15, the seventh angel has just sounded. Look at the reaction of those in heaven in Revelation 11:16-17 - they are are rejoicing, right ? Just like it says in Revelation 12:12 above, about when Satan is cast down to earth. What they are rejoicing about is the time of Satan's rule over the kingdoms of this world has come to its end. And the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ.

In the short time Satan will left, over the course of the time, times, times, half time, God will be dismantling Satan's mystical kingdom called Babylon the Great, destroying it. In Revelation 18, Babylon has fallen, has fallen - it is talking about the end of Satan's and his angels mystical kingdom

Satan had 3 1/2 years left when he was cast to the earth. (Rev. 12: 14) But the nations do not become the Lord`s till after that 3 1/2 years when He returns to earth in power and great glory. Two different times.

 

[Marilyn C]

In chronological order.....not textual order.....adhering to a timeline, it would look like this.

Woe 3, Satan cast down to earth having great wrath, lasting a time, times, half time. Until Jesus returns.

Woe 1, When cast down to earth, Satan right away will open the bottomless pit in his wrath, releasing the flesh tormenting locust, lasting 5 months.

Then around three years later, near the end of the 7 years...

Woe 2, Near the end of the 7 years, the kings of the East armies marching west, in a prelude to Armageddon, killing a third of mankind on the way. Probably lasts around month.

Satan being cast to the earth is the first woe, (& opening the pit). It is not 1 & 3.

The great army, 200 million are not the kings of the East but the Islamic people all over the world. You see the Russian Federation & Iran etc is going to be the biggest army that ever was or ever will be. I`ve worked out from God`s word that it will be late February next year. (You can read my details on my blog `Marilyn`s Messages on Worthy Forums - God`s Appointed Time for the Rapture.)

`A day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, like the morning clouds spread over the mountains, a people come, great and strong, the like of whom has never been; nor will there ever be any such after them, even for many successive generations.` (Joel 2: 2)

 

[Douggg]

Satan had 3 1/2 years left when he was cast to the earth. (Rev. 12: 14) But the nations do not become the Lord`s till after that 3 1/2 years when He returns to earth in power and great glory. Two different times.

In the kjv, if you look at the tense of Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

"are become" not "have become". If the seventh angel sounded at the end of the time, times, half time - then in the verse above, the wording would be "have become".

 

[Douggg]

Satan being cast to the earth is the first woe, (& opening the pit). It is not 1 & 3.

For Satan to be the star falling from heaven in Revelation 9:1 - there must have been some activity that caused the fall. That activity is the war between Michael and his angels vs Satan and his angels in Revelation 12:7-9, resulting in Satan and his angels cast down to earth.

The great army, 200 million are not the kings of the East but the Islamic people all over the world. You see the Russian Federation & Iran etc is going to be the biggest army that ever was or ever will be. I`ve worked out from God`s word that it will be late February next year. (You can read my details on my blog `Marilyn`s Messages on Worthy Forums - God`s Appointed Time for the Rapture.)

The Gog/Magog group will be made up of Russia and Muslim nations in the middle east, including Persia (Iran). Destruction of that coalition is in Ezekiel 39:1-6 and is before the 7 years begin in Ezekiel 39:9. It will be the end of Islam basically. And Islam will not be a factor from that point forward, as the muslim god Allah will be proved no match for the One True God of Israel.

The 200,000,000 size army in Revelation 9, the second woe, will be that of the kings of east. In Revelation 16:12, we read that the great river Euphrates will be dried up, to may way for the kings of the east. And they will march westward to take part in a prelude to Armageddon.

Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

 

[Marilyn C]

In the kjv, if you look at the tense of Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

"are become" not "have become". If the seventh angel sounded at the end of the time, times, half time - then in the verse above, the wording would be "have become".

The wording is fine for the end of the trib, as the Lord still has to judge the nations and for Israel to receive Him.

 

[Marilyn C]

For Satan to be the star falling from heaven in Revelation 9:1 - there must have been some activity that caused the fall. That activity is the war between Michael and his angels vs Satan and his angels in Revelation 12:7-9, resulting in Satan and his angels cast down to earth.



The Gog/Magog group will be made up of Russia and Muslim nations in the middle east, including Persia (Iran). Destruction of that coalition is in Ezekiel 39:1-6 and is before the 7 years begin in Ezekiel 39:9. It will be the end of Islam basically. And Islam will not be a factor from that point forward, as the muslim god Allah will be proved no match for the One True God of Israel.

The 200,000,000 size army in Revelation 9, the second woe, will be that of the kings of east. In Revelation 16:12, we read that the great river Euphrates will be dried up, to may way for the kings of the east. And they will march westward to take part in a prelude to Armageddon.

Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Yes we both agree on that point - Satan being cast to the earth, (war in heaven) and symbolically as the star.

Now, in the Russian Federation group there is ONLY the `Shi-ites,` NOT the `Sunnis` branch of Islam. Iran and its proxies are Shi-ites, whereas the inner circle near Israel are Sunni. And those 2 groups have always been in conflict. Thus, when God deals with the Russian Federation, Iran etc, then the Shi-ites will be gone and the big power of Russia also. Then, the world will see the deceptive rise of the Sunni part of Islam. They play the long game and when the Peace negotiator arises they will come behind and support him.

He will bring together the whole wealth of the Muslim world. He will seem to have the answers to the problems of the world. But, as we know this is deceptive. (Dan. 8: 23 - 25)

The drying up of the river Euphrates will occur at the end of the trib, as you say to make way for the Kings of the East. They do not kill a third of mankind on their way to Armageddon. That is done by the Muslims all over the world. It starts first at the releasing of the angels at the Euphrates where Islam resides. From there it spread out across the world and kills all those who do not honor their Messiah.

That has to occur after the A/C gets power and starts to tread down the Western nations etc. (Dan. 7: 7)

 

[Douggg]

He will bring together the whole wealth of the Muslim world. He will seem to have the answers to the problems of the world. But, as we know this is deceptive. (Dan. 8: 23 - 25)

The person who becomes the Antichrist and then later the beast-king must be a Jew.


In Daniel 11:36, it is talking about that person after he has entered his beast-king phase. Daniel 11:37 indicates that he must be a Jew.

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

 

[Douggg]

The drying up of the river Euphrates will occur at the end of the trib, as you say to make way for the Kings of the East. They do not kill a third of mankind on their way to Armageddon. That is done by the Muslims all over the world. It starts first at the releasing of the angels at the Euphrates where Islam resides. From there it spread out across the world and kills all those who do not honor their Messiah.

Marilyn, a basic principle of Islam is not to worship any man claiming to be God.

The beast-king will make that claim, and expect everyone to worship him. So he cannot be a Muslim, that Muslims would follow him.

So, I would say scratch the Muslim scenario. And instead, place the Mulsim involvement to the Gog/Magog event to take place right before the 7 year 70 week begins.

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The kings of the East, when the great river Euphrates dries up, will not move westward with their huge combined army, of 200, 000, 000, for the purpose of Armageddon, but a prelude to Armageddon instead.. Armageddon itself will be triggered by the sign of the Son of Man appearing in heaven.

The kings of East will move westward for the purpose of deposing the beast-king headquartered in Jerusalem. The prelude is the battles in Daniel 11:40-44 of the beast-king being attacked - probably for diverting all the middle east oil to his western alliance.

While those battles are taking place - without warning the sixth seal event will take place - and the world will see Jesus in heaven, sickle in hand.

That 's when the kings of the earth, already in the middle east, will band together under the beast-king to prepare to make war on Jesus.

 

[Marilyn C]

The person who becomes the Antichrist and then later the beast-king must be a Jew.


In Daniel 11:36, it is talking about that person after he has entered his beast-king phase. Daniel 11:37 indicates that he must be a Jew.

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

You know I believe the A/C is from Islam. And in the trib, when he becomes world leader and taken over by Satan, then he obviously has no regard for the religion of his fathers - Islam. He desires all to worship him.

The A/C must be a Gentile for it is the final global government of the Gentiles, (Dan. 2 Great image, and Luke 21: 24 `until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.`

 

[Douggg]

You know I believe the A/C is from Islam. And in the trib, when he becomes world leader and taken over by Satan, then he obviously has no regard for the religion of his fathers - Islam. He desires all to worship him.

The A/C must be a Gentile for it is the final global government of the Gentiles, (Dan. 2 Great image, and Luke 21: 24 `until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.`

Marilyn, in Daniel 8:13, the little horn person (as the Antichrist) will commit the transgression of desolation. Transgression of what ?

In Daniel 9, in Daniel's prayer, Daniel confessed that his people had "transgressed" the law of Moses given in the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Daniel 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

The Antichrist will be a Jew, who will transgress the Mt. Sinai covenant, by claiming to have achieved God-hood. The transgression of desolation act is the 2Thessalonains2:4 act.

The Daniel 11:37 expression, "God of his fathers" is a phrase is used in many places in the bible as referring to the God of the Jews.

Islam is not mentioned anywhere in the bible.

Genesis 50:24
Exodus 3:6
Exodus 3:15
Exodus 3:16
Exodus 6:8
Exodus 33:1
Acts 3:13
Acts 7:32
Deuteronomy 1:8
Deuteronomy 6:10
Deuteronomy 9:5
Deuteronomy 30:20
Deuteronomy 29:13
Deuteronomy 34:4
2 Kings 13:23
Mark 12:26
Matthew 22:32

 

[Marilyn C]

Marilyn, in Daniel 8:13, the little horn person (as the Antichrist) will commit the transgression of desolation. Transgression of what ?

In Daniel 9, in Daniel's prayer, Daniel confessed that his people had "transgressed" the law of Moses given in the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Daniel 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

The Antichrist will be a Jew, who will transgress the Mt. Sinai covenant, by claiming to have achieved God-hood. The transgression of desolation act is the 2Thessalonains2:4 act.

The Daniel 11:37 expression, "God of his fathers" is a phrase is used in many places in the bible as referring to the God of the Jews.

Islam is not mentioned anywhere in the bible.

Genesis 50:24
Exodus 3:6
Exodus 3:15
Exodus 3:16
Exodus 6:8
Exodus 33:1
Acts 3:13
Acts 7:32
Deuteronomy 1:8
Deuteronomy 6:10
Deuteronomy 9:5
Deuteronomy 30:20
Deuteronomy 29:13
Deuteronomy 34:4
2 Kings 13:23
Mark 12:26
Matthew 22:32

Oh, but it is -
We know from scripture where the anti-Christ will arise & what his nationality is. We are also told that he is an Assyrian. Now this is a nationality even today. Andre Agassi, the famous tennis player is of Assyrian descent.


Details of the anti-Christ –


His nationality – Assyrian. (Isa. 31: 8 Micah 5: 5)

The region he comes from – the Ancient Assyrian Empire. (Dan. 11: 35 – 43)

Leader of Ancient Assyrian region - Iraq, Syria & Jordan. (Dan. 7: 8)

Leader of Islamic Federation – 10 kings of Islam. (Dan. 7: 8, Rev. 17: 12)

He rules the world – (Rev. 16: 13 & 14, 19: 19)