Luke 13:3 being ripped out of context to teach Repent Of Your Sins

[Hoping2]

As noted prior, being tempted and being tempted, but without sin is a massive difference

Either one resists temptation or they don't.
That is the only difference.

Sin is of the devil. We have been made "subject to" such intrusions, in mind and heart

But the converted can resist them, thanks be to God !

God doesn't have that issue

Jesus was tempted as we are.
Jesus was the Word.

So you thinking it's a lie is just another example of only being able to see and understand in part, never able to consider the matter from a realistic perspective

I don't recall labeling anything a lie.
Refresh my memory please.

There are exactly zero people who even know what it is like to be sinless. And those who claim that position have been made delusional by the evil their bear of our mutual adversary

I can't agree with either of your points.
Those reborn of God's seed cannot commit sin, so must be able to resist all temptations.
Thanks be to God !

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

KJV..."For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." (Rom 11:32)
Your version of the bible has skewed your thinking.
The context of that part of Rom 11 is that there is no difference between the unconverted Jew and the unconverted Gentile.
They both need the Redeemer.

Paul was honest enough to admit his own condition, post salvation. Romans 7:17-23, 2 Cor. 12:7, Gal. 4:14, 1 Tim. 1:15 and many many others

Paul is narrating on his pre-conversion condition in most of Rom 7.
2 Cor 12:7 is a reference to Paul's having a "thorn" that kept him meek.
Gal 4:14 is another reference to the condition of his vessel; not his soul.
1 Tim 1:15 shows Paul was the worst of those "saved", but it in no wise infers he still needs to repent of sin.
Your POV is just an assassination of Paul's character.

You may at some point understand that sins are not counted against people. 2 Cor. 5:19

Never, as it is a lie.
Peter writes..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)
The devil isn't going to be judged for what we do.
We will !

But they are counted against the tempter and we all engage the tempter, internally
There's the split

It is a doctrine that accommodates sin, and should be rejected.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Either one resists temptation or they don't.

There's a fundamental void in your formula

We are tempted internally by our adversary

Where Oh Where does that place our adversary?

Are you making that adversary legal?

 

[Hoping2]

There's a fundamental void in your formula
We are tempted internally by our adversary

Describe your version of "internally".
As there is no darkness in the light...in which we are to walk, it seems clear that temptations come from the outside.

Where Oh Where does that place our adversary?

On the outside.

Are you making that adversary legal?

The devil is just a devil.
What difference would it make if he was legal or illegal ?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Describe your version of "internally".

The easiest examples, Mark 4:15, Mark 7:21-23

You position even reads present tense statements by Paul in the past tense, such as when said he did, present tense evil and that evil is, present tense, present with him. You read it as "used to do evil" and "evil used to be present"

Romans 7:17-21

 

[Hoping2]

The easiest examples, Mark 4:15, Mark 7:21-23

Perhaps easy for you, but in no wise clear to me.
Sin is gendered by temptation.
Temptations are based on lusts.
So both are from the outside.
Those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
The devil can only bring memories of past lusts to tempt us who are Christ's, so they have no power over those who are Christ's.

You position even reads present tense statements by Paul in the past tense, such as when said he did, present tense evil and that evil is, present tense, present with him. You read it as "used to do evil" and "evil used to be present"
Romans 7:17-21

Paul is writing some of Rom 7 in the present narrative tense, wherein he presents past occurrences in a present tense format.
Haven't you ever related a past event like you were still there ?
He had already said he was not in the flesh anymore, in verse 5, so his references to the happenings in the flesh are obviously from the past too.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

So both are from the outside.

Oh really? Satan stands in front of us and tempts?

he presents past occurrences in a present tense format.

So we can apply that standard to all present tense statements by Paul or just the ones that don't suit your positions?

 

[Jan001]

believers will be judged separately for rewards, at the Judgement seat of Christ. that judgement is only good things, for the saved believer they will receive their rewards. the unsaved will be at Great White throne judgement. nobody who is judged at the Great White throne judgement will be saved, all of them will be judged by their works, then are cast into the lake of fire due to their works.

There is only one last judgment. It is at the end of time. Some people call this judgment the sheep and goats judgment. Some people call it the white throne judgment.

John 5:28-29
“Do not be astonished at this,
for the hour is coming
when all those who are in their graves
will hear his voice
29 and will come forth from their graves.
Those who have done good deeds
will rise to life,
while those who have done evil
will rise to judgment.

 

[Hoping2]

Oh really? Satan stands in front of us and tempts?

Have you ever seen the devil in front of you tempting you ?
The devil is a manipulator who brings things that appeal to you, (or once appealed to you), to lure you away from God.

So we can apply that standard to all present tense statements by Paul or just the ones that don't suit your positions?

Re: Rom 7...Only the statements that he made clear were from his past.
Like for instance Rom 7:23..."But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."
That plaint from his past is answered in Rom 8:2..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

And Rom 7:24..."O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
That plaint, also from his past, was answered in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

 

[Guojing]

There is only one last judgment. It is at the end of time. Some people call this judgment the sheep and goats judgment. Some people call it the white throne judgment.

John 5:28-29
“Do not be astonished at this,
for the hour is coming
when all those who are in their graves
will hear his voice
29 and will come forth from their graves.
Those who have done good deeds
will rise to life,
while those who have done evil
will rise to judgment.

The sheep and goat judgment is at the end of Jacob's trouble, before the millennial kingdom begins.

The Great White Throne judgement is after the millennium, when Satan is released for a little while.

Cockcrow is talking about the judgement of believers at the Bema seat of Christ (1 Corinthians 3:10-15), which is for rewards, not determining who is saved and who is not.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

The devil is a manipulator who brings things that appeal to you, (or once appealed to you), to lure you away from God.

Point was temptation is internal and via the adversary, ala Mark 4:15

Re: Rom 7...Only the statements that he made clear were from his past.

None of Paul's statements in Romans 7 were past tense

The sin he termed "no longer I" still did what it did, quite apart from Paul's will

 

[Hoping2]

Point was temptation is internal and via the adversary, ala Mark 4:15

So what ?
Temptation can be resisted, wherever it shows up.

None of Paul's statements in Romans 7 were past tense

Correct.
But many of the verses in mid-Rom 7 are in the present narrative tense.
Where he is telling a story from the perspective of still being there, in the flesh, and unsuccessfully trying to gain salvation by Law keeping.
Do you think Paul was still in the flesh and trying to keep the Law to be saved when he wrote the book of Romans ?
Neither do I.

The sin he termed "no longer I" still did what it did, quite apart from Paul's will

Quite apart from his pre-conversion will.
And still impossible !
It wouldn't be possible until he had destroyed the old man. (Rom 6:6)
It wouldn't be possible until the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus freed him from the law of sin. (Rom 8:2)

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

So what ?
Temptation can be resisted, wherever it shows up.

So what? The direct cause of all sin working in everyone and you have zero factor in your positions for this matter, thinking it's only you in the equations?

No one makes the tempter legally obedient and God sees more than 'just the person.' He sees the person AND the tempter or his own working in everyone

People get mercy
Devils don't

Both sides of the equation are always in play with God

 

[Jan001]

The sheep and goat judgment is at the end of Jacob's trouble, before the millennial kingdom begins.

The Great White Throne judgement is after the millennium, when Satan is released for a little while.

Cockcrow is talking about the judgement of believers at the Bema seat of Christ (1 Corinthians 3:10-15), which is for rewards, not determining who is saved and who is not.

There is only one last judgment and everyone will attend it. You can call this judgment the sheep and goats judgment or the white throne judgment. At this last judgment, everyone will be rewarded for what they have done, whether good or bad.

Definition of Reward: A consequence that happens to someone as a result of worthy or unworthy behavior

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.


Galatians 6:7-8 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction (eternal hellfire); whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

There are not separate judgments for good people and for evil people. Both good and evil people are judged at the same time:

Revelation 20:11-13 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.


1 Corinthians 3:10-15 is about the purification of the righteous people before they can enter into heaven. They will be purged by a cleansing fire until all their imperfections are cleansed away. However, the unrighteous people will be sent to hell to suffer in fire forever.


Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure of heart, for they will see God.

 

[Hoping2]

So what? The direct cause of all sin working in everyone and you have zero factor in your positions for this matter, thinking it's only you in the equations?

All sin working in everyone" would be after giving in to temptation.
Those who are Christ's, don't fail to resist the devil.

No one makes the tempter legally obedient and God sees more than 'just the person.' He sees the person AND the tempter or his own working in everyone

What has "legally obedient" have to do with anything ?
Where are you getting this derail from ?

People get mercy
Devils don't

People can also turn from sin and become non-sinners.

Both sides of the equation are always in play with God.

When the devil' side has been ham-strung by the Spirit of God, it has no power in the truly converted and reborn.

 

[Guojing]

There is only one last judgment and everyone will attend it. You can call this judgment the sheep and goats judgment or the white throne judgment. At this last judgment, everyone will be rewarded for what they have done, whether good or bad.

Definition of Reward: A consequence that happens to someone as a result of worthy or unworthy behavior

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.


Galatians 6:7-8 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction (eternal hellfire); whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

There are not separate judgments for good people and for evil people. Both good and evil people are judged at the same time:

Revelation 20:11-13 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.


1 Corinthians 3:10-15 is about the purification of the righteous people before they can enter into heaven. They will be purged by a cleansing fire until all their imperfections are cleansed away. However, the unrighteous people will be sent to hell to suffer in fire forever.


Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure of heart, for they will see God.

I take it you do not believe in the 1000 year reign of Christ after the Tribulation, and before the new heaven and the new Earth in Rev 21?

 

[Jan001]

I take it you do not believe in the 1000 year reign of Christ after the Tribulation, and before the new heaven and the new Earth in Rev 21?

Jesus will come back to earth only once more. It will be at the end of time. The dead will be resurrected first and they will accompany Jesus back to earth on the last day to gather his people who are still living on earth and then all will accompany him to the last judgment.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

2 Timothy 4:1-2 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.

1 Timothy 6:13-15 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,

Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

1 Peter 5:4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

All sin working in everyone" would be after giving in to temptation.

No act other than thinking evil equates to defiling and sin. Mark 7:21-23, Matt. 5:28

Giving in has nothing to do with it. We all sin in thought, sometimes progressing to word and deed

The Holy Spirit didn't make anyone sinless

 

[Guojing]

Jesus will come back to earth only once more. It will be at the end of time. The dead will be resurrected first and they will accompany Jesus back to earth on the last day to gather his people who are still living on earth and then all will accompany him to the last judgment.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

2 Timothy 4:1-2 In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, 2 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.

1 Timothy 6:13-15 In the sight of God, who gives life to everything, and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,

Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

1 Peter 5:4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.

Explain how you will understand the sequence of events in rev 20.

 

[Hoping2]

No act other than thinking evil equates to defiling and sin. Mark 7:21-23, Matt. 5:28

So murder isn't a sin ?
Disregarding those in need isn't a sin ?

Giving in has nothing to do with it. We all sin in thought, sometimes progressing to word and deed

We can also, all resist the urge to act on the temptations.

The Holy Spirit didn't make anyone sinless

I disagree, as by the Spirit of God, we can destroy the old man and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
By the Spirit, we can walk in the light, and forsake darkness.
By the Spirit, we have been made perfectly obedient to God.
Your evaluation of the Spirit is off the mark.

 

[David Lamb]

By the Spirit, we have been made perfectly obedient to God.
Your evaluation of the Spirit is off the mark.

If we were made totally obedient, why does the apostle Paul write (after his conversion):

“18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but [how] to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will [to do], I do not do; but the evil I will not [to do], that I practice.” (Ro 7:18-19 NKJV)

And why did the apostle John write to his Christian readers:

“8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1Jo 1:8-9 NKJV)