Luke 13:3 being ripped out of context to teach Repent Of Your Sins

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Neither of those scriptures say what you want them to say.
Man commits the sins he will be destroyed for

We "ALL" die because of sin. Romans 8:10

Thank God for scrip's like 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man

I've been trying to get you to see your own quotes. Obviously the "tempter" is involved with mankind

Jesus engaged Satan and devils IN mankind on every page of the Bible

 

[Hoping2]

Here you evade the issue by adding the word "continues," which means that you assume I'm talking about someone after being born again. No, I'm not talking about that. I'm trying to find out what you think is the sequence of events that get a person to a converted state.

OK.

So then, you believe in baptismal regeneration, since you say the "quickening occurs during baptism."

Yes, I am.

I know you're referring to Rom. 6, but it says "baptism unto death," not "baptism in water."

"Immersion" happens with water, into Christ and into His death and burial.

You also believe that true repentance is unregenerate man's ability, obviously by this response.

Yes, as repentance is a gift from God, (Acts 11:18), I see no limitations put on it by God.

Yet, Paul is clear that unregenerate man cannot repent from his heart in 1 Cor. 2:12-14, Rom. 7:14, Rom. 8:7, and implied elsewhere.

Paul isn't writing about repentance from sin in 1 Cor 2, or the other three verse you provided.
If a man wants to quit sinning, God will enable that.
It happened for Cornelius and his group,

You obviously think that "we do our part" happens before Christ's death helps us. So then, the work of repentance and baptism causes a person to be saved, born again, and Jesus' death helping us, according to your response here, correct? "We do our part", then somehow Christ's death helps us.

God and His Son Jesus laid the groundwork, and we follow His plan.
They made conversion available to us, and it is up to us to either accept it or reject it.

And your part was - repent of your sins, be baptised, and anything else?

No.
Do those two things, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

And your sins were not atoned for, nor were you justified or sanctified in any way prior to you doing those things?

Correct.
God won't save the unsubmissive..

 

[Hoping2]

We "ALL" die because of sin. Romans 8:10

We won't all die the second death.

I've been trying to get you to see your own quotes. Obviously the "tempter" is involved with mankind
Jesus engaged Satan and devils IN mankind on every page of the Bible

The devil is not in the children of God.
He tries every trick in the book to gain entry, but is doomed to failure.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

We won't all die the second death.

Technically text says the second death won't hurt us, Rev. 2:11

The devil is not in the children of God.
He tries every trick in the book to gain entry, but is doomed to failure.

Well, at least you managed to get the other party on the table, finally. Now you have a better picture of what's really going on

 

[tdidymas]

OK.

Yes, I am.

"Immersion" happens with water, into Christ and into His death and burial.

Where does it say "immersion" in Rom. 6? It says "united with Him in the likeness of His death" - this was not baptism, but crucifixion.

Yes, as repentance is a gift from God, (Acts 11:18), I see no limitations put on it by God.

Paul isn't writing about repentance from sin in 1 Cor 2, or the other three verse you provided.
If a man wants to quit sinning, God will enable that.
It happened for Cornelius and his group,

Paul is writing about repentance by implication in all 3 of those scriptures, because the unregenerate cannot believe the gospel, and therefore cannot repent, because the gospel is either a stumbling block to him (Jews), or is foolishness (gentiles). This is the thrust of Paul's argument. You yourself stated that God grants repentance, which is true. He grants repentance to individuals who then are enabled to repent because they believe the gospel. You claim "if a man wants to quit sinning..." but the whole problem with any man is his slavery to the sinful nature, so no one wants to quit sinning until God grants the repentance for him to do so. You should reconsider your opinion on this.

God and His Son Jesus laid the groundwork, and we follow His plan.
They made conversion available to us, and it is up to us to either accept it or reject it.

Another evasion. The issue is that you are claiming that repentance and baptism comes first, which is an effort people must make before God justifies them and gives them the Holy Spirit. This is your claim, isn't it?

No.
Do those two things, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

Correct.
God won't save the unsubmissive..

So then, you are saying that you must submit to God first, then He will save you in response to your submissive attitude, correct?

 

[Hoping2]

Technically text says the second death won't hurt us, Rev. 2:11

The second death is reserved for the servants of sin, and the devils

Well, at least you managed to get the other party on the table, finally. Now you have a better picture of what's really going on

What is really going on is that the devil uses anything at hand to try to wrest us away from Godliness.
But the Godly can resist all his efforts.

 

[Hoping2]

Where does it say "immersion" in Rom. 6? It says "united with Him in the likeness of His death" - this was not baptism, but crucifixion.

It is both, by the power of God.
"Baptizo" from the Greek means immersed, fully whelmed.

Paul is writing about repentance by implication in all 3 of those scriptures, because the unregenerate cannot believe the gospel, and therefore cannot repent, because the gospel is either a stumbling block to him (Jews), or is foolishness (gentiles). This is the thrust of Paul's argument. You yourself stated that God grants repentance, which is true. He grants repentance to individuals who then are enabled to repent because they believe the gospel. You claim "if a man wants to quit sinning..." but the whole problem with any man is his slavery to the sinful nature, so no one wants to quit sinning until God grants the repentance for him to do so. You should reconsider your opinion on this.

As all men start off unregenerated, for your POV to be true, nobody could repent of sin.

Another evasion. The issue is that you are claiming that repentance and baptism comes first, which is an effort people must make before God justifies them and gives them the Holy Spirit. This is your claim, isn't it?

Obedience to the words of Jesus, Peter, Paul, and John, will precede conversion, repentance, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, rebirth, and reception of the Holy Ghost.

So then, you are saying that you must submit to God first, then He will save you in response to your submissive attitude, correct?

Correct !
No unsubmissive man will be saved.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

What is really going on is that the devil uses anything at hand to try to wrest us away from Godliness.
But the Godly can resist all his efforts.

Like I said at least you got the other party on the table. That's a step in the right, honest direction

No one makes the tempter stop tempting or sinning, no matter how good of a show they put on on the outside

 

[Hoping2]

Like I said at least you got the other party on the table. That's a step in the right, honest direction

No one makes the tempter stop tempting or sinning, no matter how good of a show they put on on the outside

What sin are you accusing the devil of committing?

 

[tdidymas]

It is both, by the power of God.
"Baptizo" from the Greek means immersed, fully whelmed.

As all men start off unregenerated, for your POV to be true, nobody could repent of sin.

Obedience to the words of Jesus, Peter, Paul, and John, will precede conversion, repentance, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, rebirth, and reception of the Holy Ghost.

Correct !
No unsubmissive man will be saved.

You said: "As all men start off unregenerated, for your POV to be true, nobody could repent of sin."

This statement indicates you don't know scripture or the power of God.

If you read 1 Cor. 2:14-16 carefully and with a prayerful attitude, you'd see that it says no unregenerate man can repent of sin. Certainly the Pharisees thought they did, but Jesus told them they were liars. And there will certainly be some who think they repented of sin, but Jesus said "not everyone who calls Me 'Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven."

1 Cor. 2:14-16 implies that God must do something to a natural person to make them spiritual, which is what is described in Eph. 2:5. You yourself said that God grants repentance, which means God has to grant repentance to an individual before that individual can repent. So in effect, according to Eph. 2:8-10, all spiritual activity of anyone who believes the gospel is the gift of God, since it all must come as a whole package. Salvation is the gift of God. Grace is the gift of God. Faith is the gift of God. Repentance is the gift of God. Justification is the gift of God. Sanctification is the gift of God. It's all God's gift.

But you make justification, salvation, and the Holy Spirit a merited condition by virtue of repentance, baptism, and obedience to the NT, according to your response here.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

What sin are you accusing the devil of committing?

The scriptures say the devil sins. It doesn't limit these sins

Since the tempter works in mankind to sin, ala Mark 5 and the other seed parables, and 1 John 3:8 implicates the devil in mankind's sins, it's quite easy to say devils are implicated in all sins committed in mankind

 

[Hoping2]

You said: "As all men start off unregenerated, for your POV to be true, nobody could repent of sin."

This statement indicates you don't know scripture or the power of God.

If you read 1 Cor. 2:14-16 carefully and with a prayerful attitude, you'd see that it says no unregenerate man can repent of sin. Certainly the Pharisees thought they did, but Jesus told them they were liars. And there will certainly be some who think they repented of sin, but Jesus said "not everyone who calls Me 'Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven."

1 Cor. 2:14-16 implies that God must do something to a natural person to make them spiritual, which is what is described in Eph. 2:5. You yourself said that God grants repentance, which means God has to grant repentance to an individual before that individual can repent. So in effect, according to Eph. 2:8-10, all spiritual activity of anyone who believes the gospel is the gift of God, since it all must come as a whole package. Salvation is the gift of God. Grace is the gift of God. Faith is the gift of God. Repentance is the gift of God. Justification is the gift of God. Sanctification is the gift of God. It's all God's gift.

But you make justification, salvation, and the Holy Spirit a merited condition by virtue of repentance, baptism, and obedience to the NT, according to your response here.

I was unregenerated, when I repented of sin.
The "things" Paul was taking about in 1 Cor 2:14-16 were "things of the Spirit", and not "things of salvation".
Were you born again before you turned from sin and were washed by the blood of Christ ?

 

[Hoping2]

The scriptures say the devil sins. It doesn't limit these sins

Pleas supply the scripture.

Since the tempter works in mankind to sin, ala Mark 5 and the other seed parables, and 1 John 3:8 implicates the devil in mankind's sins, it's quite easy to say devils are implicated in all sins committed in mankind

The devil is implicated, but it is the man who commits the sins.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

The devil is implicated, but it is the man who commits the sins.

As stated prior. At least you managed to get the other party on the table

It does provide more honest sights

Might even help you love your neighbors as yourself

 

[tdidymas]

I was unregenerated, when I repented of sin.
The "things" Paul was taking about in 1 Cor 2:14-16 were "things of the Spirit", and not "things of salvation".
Were you born again before you turned from sin and were washed by the blood of Christ ?

The "things of the Spirit" is the gospel, as he is talking about throughout ch. 1 and 2, so it has everything to do with salvation.

How do you know you were unregenerated when you repented of sin? How do you measure that?

The Bible tells me I was born again when I turned from sin and was washed by the blood of Christ. The cause (born of God) comes before the effect (faith and conversion). 1 John 5:1 makes it plain: "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God."

 

[Hoping2]

As stated prior. At least you managed to get the other party on the table

It does provide more honest sights

Might even help you love your neighbors as yourself

Just as we are in control of whether or not we commit sin, so too we are in control of our love for others.

 

[Hoping2]

The "things of the Spirit" is the gospel, as he is talking about throughout ch. 1 and 2, so it has everything to do with salvation.

Not necessarily.
The "things" seem to be the preference of one preacher over another, division, speaking the same thing in all things, and baptism.
1 Cor 2:12-13 is the root of what carnal man cannot fathom..."Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."
The "we" are not unregenerated people.

How do you know you were unregenerated when you repented of sin? How do you measure that?

I had not yet been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins.
With that baptism, man kills off his old self (Rom 6:6), and is raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
The new life is the regenerated life.

The Bible tells me I was born again when I turned from sin and was washed by the blood of Christ. The cause (born of God) comes before the effect (faith and conversion).

I was born again too, when I turned from sin and got baptized.
But not before it.

1 John 5:1 makes it plain: "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God."

You have an interesting way of looking at scripture.
When I read that verse, I see...Everyone who has been born of God believes that Jesus is the Christ.

The devil believes that Jesus is the Christ, but he isn't born again.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Just as we are in control of whether or not we commit sin, so too we are in control of our love for others.

Regardless of any good work, evil remains present within us just as it did with Paul and everyone else, per prior "scriptures." Heb. 10:22, Mark 7:21-23, Matt. 15:18-20, Romans 7:17-21, 1 Tim. 1:15

When anyone claims they are sinless, they have merely been deceived by the evil present within them, thinking that as long as they don't act out on said evil, they're not sinning and that isn't the case. Evil thoughts defile us all, and there are not exceptions other than God Himself in Christ

 

[tdidymas]

Not necessarily.
The "things" seem to be the preference of one preacher over another, division, speaking the same thing in all things, and baptism.
1 Cor 2:12-13 is the root of what carnal man cannot fathom..."Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."
The "we" are not unregenerated people.

I had not yet been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins.
With that baptism, man kills off his old self (Rom 6:6), and is raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
The new life is the regenerated life.

I was born again too, when I turned from sin and got baptized.
But not before it.

You have an interesting way of looking at scripture.
When I read that verse, I see...Everyone who has been born of God believes that Jesus is the Christ.

The devil believes that Jesus is the Christ, but he isn't born again.

I say that you are the one whose interpretation is screwy, and I think it's because you read with prejudice or a premise.

Your response to 1 Cor. 2 says essentially what I said, except you appear adversarial in your response. The difference is that you said "not necessarily," so you don't think that Paul was talking about the gospel when he said "things of the Spirit." My point is that he is talking about the gospel, because since early ch. 1 he has been talking about the gospel he preaches, and he has not changed the subject. When he said in v. 10 "God has revealed them," and in v. 16 "we have the mind of Christ," he is speaking of the gospel of Christ which he preached, since it was once a mystery but had been revealed through the words of Christ which we have in the gospels, and the words of the apostles in the rest of the NT.

Concerning your statement on 1 Jn. 5:1: "When I read that verse, I see...Everyone who has been born of God believes that Jesus is the Christ."
Although you are actually reading it backward from how the text is written, it appears to me that it says the same thing. Being born of God comes prior to belief in Christ. According to Eph. 2:1-10, God must raise us up to spiritual life from being dead in sin, and then it logically follows that we are saved by grace through faith. But I'm certain that you disagree, based on your statement that you had to be baptised first before you were born again.

It just begs the question who your teacher is - where do you go to church?

 

[Hoping2]

Regardless of any good work, evil remains present within us just as it did with Paul and everyone else, per prior "scriptures." Heb. 10:22, Mark 7:21-23, Matt. 15:18-20, Romans 7:17-21, 1 Tim. 1:15

You are misreading the scriptures you cite, using misinterpretations to deny we can now be free from sin.

When anyone claims they are sinless, they have merely been deceived by the evil present within them,

Is baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins efficient to wash away past sins ?
If you answer YES, then man is at that point without sin !
If you answered NO, then Pater lied in Acts 2:38 and Ananias lied in Acts 22:16.

thinking that as long as they don't act out on said evil, they're not sinning and that isn't the case. Evil thoughts defile us all, and there are not exceptions other than God Himself in Christ

You seem so intent on giving devils power over your life, that even resisting temptation is a sin to you.