Proof of Pre Trib Rapture

[truthpls]

During the last years the believers/saints will be overcome and their power and a mass murder of believers will occur. Surely anyone posting here would know that much is true according to the bible. Many martyrs, beheadings, believers fleeing and not being able to preach the gospel freely etc etc

The bible tells us that the gates of hell will not withstand the church, or as some interpret, overcome it.

If the church were here in those last years, then it would be overcome. So it cannot be here if what Jesus said is true.

 

[jasmine_childoftheking]

Well, I don't know if there's proof of a pre-trib rapture, though it's possible.

Those who view the pre-trib Rapture call it a relief, like "Oh, at least we won't have to go through that." It's hard to imagine to be here when all the stuff happens: locusts that sting all the people, horsemen that kill 1/3 of the earth's population.

I can't say for sure when the Rapture will be. But pre-trib could be a possibly. All we have to do is be ready for when Jesus comes again!

 

[LoriSaysHey2U]

When you use the term "the church", I'm assuming you are referring to the Believers and not "churches" per se. There will be lots of Believers on the earth in those days referred to by Jesus as the great tribulation (Matthew 24:21). We know this because John sees them when Jesus opens the 5th seal. In Rev 6:9, John sees the souls of those who had been slain because of the Word of God and because of the testimony which they had maintained. However, although many were martyred for their faith, the Lord did help them "overcome" by giving them the strength through the Holy Spirit to not turn from their faith. That's what I believe He means when He says to each of the people in the 7 churches that to him who overcomes, I will grant to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God (in heaven). This will make Satan very mad that he was not able to make them turn away from their faith, but stayed strong in the Lord.

 

[truthpls]

Well, I don't know if there's proof of a pre-trib rapture, though it's possible.

Those who view the pre-trib Rapture call it a relief, like "Oh, at least we won't have to go through that." It's hard to imagine to be here when all the stuff happens: locusts that sting all the people, horsemen that kill 1/3 of the earth's population.

I can't say for sure when the Rapture will be. But pre-trib could be a possibly. All we have to do is be ready for when Jesus comes again!

I think we know when it will be in the important sense. It will be before the wrath of God and therefore before the tribulation. The OP gives proof. The church cannot be overcome. So the saints getting overcome in the end are not the church (even though, of course some of them overcome spiritually)
Yes it is a relief! The hope of all ages.

 

[Marilyn C]

During the last years the believers/saints will be overcome and their power and a mass murder of believers will occur. Surely anyone posting here would know that much is true according to the bible. Many martyrs, beheadings, believers fleeing and not being able to preach the gospel freely etc etc

The bible tells us that the gates of hell will not withstand the church, or as some interpret, overcome it.

If the church were here in those last years, then it would be overcome. So it cannot be here if what Jesus said is true.

Yes, a great truth. Jesus will be sent by the Father to gather His believers and take them to His own throne in the third heaven. There He will be enthroned as Sovereign over all God`s great kingdom. His Body will be with Him as kingpriests. (Acts 3: 20 & 21)

 

[truthpls]

Yes, a great truth. Jesus will be sent by the Father to gather His believers and take them to His own throne in the third heaven. There He will be enthroned as Sovereign over all God`s great kingdom. His Body will be with Him as kingpriests. (Acts 3: 20 & 21)

That sounds better than being bullied and killed by Satanic people and demons on earth in that last time. The verse you cited mentioned the time of the restoration of all things. I am not sure when that is? Maybe the 1000 year reign of Christ...

 

[Marilyn C]

That sounds better than being bullied and killed by Satanic people and demons on earth in that last time. The verse you cited mentioned the time of the restoration of all things. I am not sure when that is? Maybe the 1000 year reign of Christ...

1.What are the `all things?`

`Christ Jesus…….He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.` (Col. 1: 15 & 16)

We read of the extent of `all things,` heaven and earth, with the focus on authorities – thrones, dominion, principalities and powers – God`s delegated governmental authority.

The Lord created these positions of authority, and they are for Him. Then we know from God`s word that each of these positions of authority in heaven and earth became corrupt. So how is the Lord going to restore these authorities under Himself?

2.What do the Old Testament Prophets reveal about the restoration of all things?

`Jesus Christ…..whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God spoke by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.` (Acts 3: 21)


Delegated authority in the third heaven.

Lucifer the KingPriest in the third heaven.

We read in the prophets Isaiah and Ezekiel of Lucifer, the beautiful angel, with great wisdom, the Kingpriest in the third heaven.

`You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty…….every precious stone was your covering (priestly)…you were the anointed cherub who covers….you were perfect in all your ways…` (Ez. 28: 12 – 15)



We also read how he became filled with pride and was cast from the `mountain of God.`

`For you have said in your heart: `I will ascend into heaven, (highest) I will exalt my throne (king) above the stars of God…`(Isa. 14: 13)

`I (God) cast you out of the mountain of God…` (Ez. 28: 16)

Lucifer had the delegated position of authority as kingpriest in the third heaven, but he was not found worthy to continue ruling there.


Jesus Christ Kingpriest in the third Heaven.

Then to the prophet Zechariah was revealed that there would be a man who would take that dual office of King priest.

`Thus says the LORD of hosts, saying: Behold, the man whose name is the Branch! From His place He shall branch out, and He shall build the temple of the LORD; yes He shall build the temple of the LORD. He shall bear the glory. And He shall sit and rule on His throne; so he shall be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.` (Zech. 6: 12 & 13)



In Israel the offices of King and priest were separate. However, we know that God the Father has with an oath made His Son a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek, (Kingpriest)

`The LORD has sworn and will not relent, “You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek” (Heb. 7: 21)

`For this Melchizedek, king….priest of the Most High…` (Heb. 7: 1)

We also know that God the Father will set His Son on the Son`s own throne in the third heaven – High Priest on His own throne.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on MY throne… a throne set in heaven and One sat on the throne…`` (Rev. 3: 21, 4: 2)

That authority position is on the heavenly Mount Zion.

`Yet I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion.` (Ps. 2: 6)

`You have come to Mount Zion….to God…to Jesus..`(Heb. 12: 22 - 24)



Then amazingly we have been promised to not only be made like unto the Lord,

`For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son…` (Rom. 8: 29)

but that we will also rule as Kingpriests with Him in the third heaven.

`And has made us kings and priests to His God..` (Rev. 1: 6)

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne..` (Rev. 3: 21)



And this will take place when the Lord, the Head has brought His Body of believers to maturity in Him, and then takes them to His own throne.

`We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.` (1 Thess. 4: 17)



It is there in the third heaven that the Body of Christ takes part in the enthronement of the Lord, the mighty conqueror.

`Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting with white robes; and they had crowns on their heads.` (Rev. 4: 4) (24 elders are representative of the Body of Christ.)



This is the first position of authority to be restored,

`Jesus…whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken about by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.` (Acts 3:20 & 21)

 

[truthpls]

1.What are the `all things?`

`Christ Jesus…….He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.` (Col. 1: 15 & 16)

We read of the extent of `all things,` heaven and earth, with the focus on authorities – thrones, dominion, principalities and powers – God`s delegated governmental authority.

The Lord created these positions of authority, and they are for Him. Then we know from God`s word that each of these positions of authority in heaven and earth became corrupt. So how is the Lord going to restore these authorities under Himself?

2.What do the Old Testament Prophets reveal about the restoration of all things?

`Jesus Christ…..whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God spoke by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.` (Acts 3: 21)


Delegated authority in the third heaven.

Lucifer the KingPriest in the third heaven.

We read in the prophets Isaiah and Ezekiel of Lucifer, the beautiful angel, with great wisdom, the Kingpriest in the third heaven.

`You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty…….every precious stone was your covering (priestly)…you were the anointed cherub who covers….you were perfect in all your ways…` (Ez. 28: 12 – 15)



We also read how he became filled with pride and was cast from the `mountain of God.`

`For you have said in your heart: `I will ascend into heaven, (highest) I will exalt my throne (king) above the stars of God…`(Isa. 14: 13)

`I (God) cast you out of the mountain of God…` (Ez. 28: 16)

Lucifer had the delegated position of authority as kingpriest in the third heaven, but he was not found worthy to continue ruling there.


Jesus Christ Kingpriest in the third Heaven.

Then to the prophet Zechariah was revealed that there would be a man who would take that dual office of King priest.

`Thus says the LORD of hosts, saying: Behold, the man whose name is the Branch! From His place He shall branch out, and He shall build the temple of the LORD; yes He shall build the temple of the LORD. He shall bear the glory. And He shall sit and rule on His throne; so he shall be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.` (Zech. 6: 12 & 13)



In Israel the offices of King and priest were separate. However, we know that God the Father has with an oath made His Son a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek, (Kingpriest)

`The LORD has sworn and will not relent, “You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek” (Heb. 7: 21)

`For this Melchizedek, king….priest of the Most High…` (Heb. 7: 1)

We also know that God the Father will set His Son on the Son`s own throne in the third heaven – High Priest on His own throne.

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on MY throne… a throne set in heaven and One sat on the throne…`` (Rev. 3: 21, 4: 2)

That authority position is on the heavenly Mount Zion.

`Yet I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion.` (Ps. 2: 6)

`You have come to Mount Zion….to God…to Jesus..`(Heb. 12: 22 - 24)



Then amazingly we have been promised to not only be made like unto the Lord,

`For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son…` (Rom. 8: 29)

but that we will also rule as Kingpriests with Him in the third heaven.

`And has made us kings and priests to His God..` (Rev. 1: 6)

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne..` (Rev. 3: 21)



And this will take place when the Lord, the Head has brought His Body of believers to maturity in Him, and then takes them to His own throne.

`We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.` (1 Thess. 4: 17)



It is there in the third heaven that the Body of Christ takes part in the enthronement of the Lord, the mighty conqueror.

`Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting with white robes; and they had crowns on their heads.` (Rev. 4: 4) (24 elders are representative of the Body of Christ.)



This is the first position of authority to be restored,

`Jesus…whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken about by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.` (Acts 3:20 & 21)

You seem to feel that when we (elders and saints in heaven etc) throw our crowns before Jesus that this is the time when Jesus is 'enthroned'. Therefore also, apparently when the 'restitution of all things' happens. Looking at the timing here, this is in heaven and before Jesus return to the earth in the second coming. So He still has to come down and rescue the tribulation saints who are yet alive, and the newly saved remnant of Israel. He also has to judge nations and take over the planet. So I do not see how one can say that all things were already restored before Jesus even returned to earth. In fact even in the millennium there will still be rebels and a world that will still needed to be totally burned with fire and made new. So all things are not even restored by the millennium. I think we have to wait till the new heaven and earth for the restoration of all things. (though of course it starts in the millennium and before)

 

[Matt5]

During the last years the believers/saints will be overcome and their power and a mass murder of believers will occur. Surely anyone posting here would know that much is true according to the bible. Many martyrs, beheadings, believers fleeing and not being able to preach the gospel freely etc etc

The bible tells us that the gates of hell will not withstand the church, or as some interpret, overcome it.

If the church were here in those last years, then it would be overcome. So it cannot be here if what Jesus said is true.

You don't actually believe in the pre-trib rapture. You believe in the pre-nuke rapture. Before the nukes start falling, you will be raptured out of here. Never mind that the nukes could start falling well before the tribulation period starts. You're safe with nothing to worry about.

Interestingly, what anybody believes about the rapture is irrelevant. Is anybody actually get ready for the return of Jesus? That would include things like the 4th seal where 1/4th of the planet is wiped out. Even preppers are unprepared for an event like that.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

During the last years the believers/saints will be overcome and their power and a mass murder of believers will occur. Surely anyone posting here would know that much is true according to the bible. Many martyrs, beheadings, believers fleeing and not being able to preach the gospel freely etc etc

The bible tells us that the gates of hell will not withstand the church, or as some interpret, overcome it.

If the church were here in those last years, then it would be overcome. So it cannot be here if what Jesus said is true.

You do realize that a " mass murder" is not the same as a rapture of the physical body, right? Also. Jesus Christ of Nazareth said nothing about a rapture, it was Paul. Additionally, one must interpret scripture simply by reading it without a lens. In His words ,Jesus Christ of Nazareth specifically said it would be " like" the days of Noah. With the lens it reads like a rapture but without it , who was taken and who was left behind? The answer...Noah and his family were left behind.
Blessings

 

[truthpls]

You don't actually believe in the pre-trib rapture. You believe in the pre-nuke rapture. Before the nukes start falling, you will be raptured out of here. Never mind that the nukes could start falling well before the tribulation period starts. You're safe with nothing to worry about.

That sounds reasonable. If a nuclear exchange was part of the wrath of God, why would His Bride go through it exactly?

Interestingly, what anybody believes about the rapture is irrelevant.

Not really. If they know Him and His word what they believe is wonderful.

Is anybody actually get ready for the return of Jesus?

Of course. We simply need to look forward to His coming. If we know this world is not our home and we are saved, and we do the best we can, how would we not be ready? Being ready does not mean being a sinless saint.

That would include things like the 4th seal where 1/4th of the planet is wiped out. Even preppers are unprepared for an event like that.

No. The wrath of God where that happens is IN the tribulation years.

 

[truthpls]

You do realize that a " mass murder" is not the same as a rapture of the physical body, right?

No idea what that is supposed to mean or how it relates to Jesus returning in the air to take us out to be up there with Him.

Also. Jesus Christ of Nazareth said nothing about a rapture, it was Paul.

? Paul gave us details that Jesus gave him. Also, Jesus stated that where He is we will also be, and that He was going up to heaven. That'll do er

Additionally, one must interpret scripture simply by reading it without a lens. In His words ,Jesus Christ of Nazareth specifically said it would be " like" the days of Noah.

Right and so the world seems to be today more and more

With the lens it reads like a rapture but without it , who was taken and who was left behind? The answer...Noah and his family were left behind.

The world being wicked like the days of Sodom or Noah means that the world will be similar in the end. It does not mean that the Rapture will be in a boat, or that Jesus only saved one family or etc etc.

 

[Oseas]

The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing,understand? What does the Word of GOD say?

Jeremiah 23:29-Is not my Word like as a fire?saith the Lord;and like a hammer that breakes the rock in pieces?

JESUS made it so clear,saying: Luke12:49- I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

JESUS said more: Luke12:54-57
54...When ye see a cloud rise out of the west,straightway ye say, There comes a shower;and so it is.
55When ye see the south wind blow,ye say,There will be heat;and it comes to pass.
56Ye hypocrites,ye can discern the face of the sky and the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
57Yea, and why even of yourselves Judge ye not what is right?

Genesis 18:17-22-> 17 The Lord said,Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do? 20 The Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great,and their sin is very grievous; 21 I will go down now,and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not,I will know. 22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.

Genesis 19:1-14
1 And there came two men to Sodom at even;and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them;and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
13 They said unto Lot: We will destroy this place...the Lord has sent us to destroy it.(NOW THE DEVIL'S WORLD AS A WHOLE)

Luke 17:26-30
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat,they drank,they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day Noah entered into the ark, the flood came,and destroyed them all.
28Also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained FIRE and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all
30Even thus SHALL IT BE(NOW)in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?

Get ready

 

[Oseas]

Remember, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing.

1Thessalonians 5:3- When they say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them...and THEY SHALL NOT ESCAPE.

Amos 5:8-9-8 Seek him that makes the seven stars (by allegory 7 angels of the Gentile Church-Revelation 1:20) and Orion (Jewish Church-the remnant-Isaiah1:9 & Amos 5:2-3), and turns the shadow of death into the morning, and makes the day dark with night: that calls for the waters of the sea (Gentile peoples/believers), and pours them out upon the face of the earth: The Lord is His name: 9-That strengthens the spoiled against the strong, so that the spoiled shall come against the fortress.

Zephaniah 1:12-18
12 And it shall come to pass at that time(the current time), that I will search Jerusalem with candles, and punish the men that are settled on their lees: that say in their heart, The Lord will not do good, neither will he do evil.
13 Therefore their goods shall become a booty, and their houses a desolation (Mat.24:15-25): they shall also build houses, but not inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, but not drink the wine thereof.
14 The great Day of the Lord is near, it is near,and hastes greatly (i.e.the 7th and last Day, or 7th and last millennium) even the voice of the Day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly(Revelation 6:13-17)
15 That Day is a Day of WRATH(Revelation 11:18), a Day of trouble and distress, a Day of wasteness and desolation, a Day of darkness and gloominess, a Day of clouds and thick darkness,
16A Day of Trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.
17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the Day of the Lord's WRATH (the CURRENT 7th Day); but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of His jealousy: for He shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

Get ready

 

[truthpls]

The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing,understand? What does the Word of GOD say?

Jeremiah 23:29-Is not my Word like as a fire?saith the Lord;and like a hammer that breakes the rock in pieces?

JESUS made it so clear,saying: Luke12:49- I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

JESUS said more: Luke12:54-57
54...When ye see a cloud rise out of the west,straightway ye say, There comes a shower;and so it is.
55When ye see the south wind blow,ye say,There will be heat;and it comes to pass.
56Ye hypocrites,ye can discern the face of the sky and the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
57Yea, and why even of yourselves Judge ye not what is right?

Genesis 18:17-22-> 17 The Lord said,Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do? 20 The Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great,and their sin is very grievous; 21 I will go down now,and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not,I will know. 22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.

Genesis 19:1-14
1 And there came two men to Sodom at even;and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them;and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
13 They said unto Lot: We will destroy this place...the Lord has sent us to destroy it.(NOW THE DEVIL'S WORLD AS A WHOLE)

Luke 17:26-30
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat,they drank,they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day Noah entered into the ark, the flood came,and destroyed them all.
28Also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained FIRE and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all
30Even thus SHALL IT BE(NOW)in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?

Get ready

So you seem to be saying that the world indeed is a lot like that in the days of Sodom and Noah. If so, yes, that is simple to understand

 

[Spiritual Jew]

During the last years the believers/saints will be overcome and their power and a mass murder of believers will occur. Surely anyone posting here would know that much is true according to the bible. Many martyrs, beheadings, believers fleeing and not being able to preach the gospel freely etc etc

The bible tells us that the gates of hell will not withstand the church, or as some interpret, overcome it.

If the church were here in those last years, then it would be overcome. So it cannot be here if what Jesus said is true.

There have been many Christians in the church who have been persecuted and killed in the past 2,000 years. Does that mean the gates of hell prevailed against those martyrs? Of course not! They are in heaven now. Someone being killed for their faith does not mean the gates of hell prevailed against them. Not at all. You are thinking of this in entirely the wrong way.

You could have every single person in the church be martyred, but that would not mean the gates of hell have prevailed against it when you know all of them would then be in heaven. The only way the gates of hell could prevail against the church is if it convinced everyone in the church to lose their faith and fall away and that isn't going to happen.

 

[truthpls]

There have been many Christians in the church who have been persecuted and killed in the past 2,000 years. Does that mean the gates of hell prevailed against those martyrs? Of course not!

It means that the church was not wiped out worldwide of course Not even close, on the contrary in fact. No one said that a Rapture means that there will not be persecution. When you have a worldwide government led by a Satan man killing believers and making it impossible to meet etc etc, that is different. That means the power of the church is not here.

You could have every single person in the church be martyred, but that would not mean the gates of hell have prevailed against it when you know all of them would then be in heaven.

Nonsense. You cannot have a destruction of the church until it leaves earth. Period.

The only way the gates of hell could prevail against the church is if it convinced everyone in the church to lose their faith and fall away and that isn't going to happen.

No. If that were the case there would be no Rapture--and there sure will be!

 

[Oseas]

The only way the gates of hell could prevail against the church is if it convinced everyone in the church to lose their faith and fall away and that isn't going to happen.

Interesting. But remember. JESUS Himself warned: Luke 18:8-Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
What you think?

 

[jasmine_childoftheking]

Well, no one knows the day or the hour, so there's no knowing when Jesus will come again. He could come at any time.

 

[Oseas]

So you seem to be saying that the world indeed is a lot like that in the days of Sodom and Noah. If so, yes, that is simple to understand

My point is the destruction of the current world of Devil as a whole, with all its NATIONS, something like the fall of the twin towers in 2001, the WORLD TRADE CENTER, at the turn from the sixth to the seventh and last Day, and it by the Power of the Word of GOD, a consuming fire, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand? And as we know, the nations SHALL BE ANGREE, THEY WILL BE WRATHED, but the WRATH of GOD also comes UPON THEM ALL and they shall be destroyed-Revelation 11:18 combined with Daniel 12:1-3 and Matthew 24:21-25 and 1Thessalonians 4:16.

GET READY

What was the biblical significance of the construction and fall of the TWO TOWERS of the World Trade Center?

First, GOD was/is in control of history, nothing random happens. The United States was the single largest economy on the planet, followed by the European Union. Humanity had just entered a new millennium, from the sixth to the seventh(check it in...

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