• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

AI learnt "something" from the Physical & Life Sciences Forum.

AlexB23

Christian
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,387
7,699
25
WI
✟644,618.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Another test for AI on a spectrum of a very rare type of star known as a Wolf–Rayet star - Wikipedia.
The subject is a binary star system identified as a Gamma Velorum where the brighter component Suhail has a distinctive spectrum as shown in my image.

GPT-4o was asked to identify what type of object produced this spectrum and if possible identity the star.


View attachment 353292

Here is the full detail.


It correctly identified the object as a Wolf-Rayet star, the class WC8 and the carbon emission lines but missed the Hα peak and could not specifically identify the object as Suhail.
Still quite an impressive feat.
Wow, that is impressive how the AI managed to get the correct star classification. Wolf-Rayet stars are pretty hot, anywhere from 20,000 Kelvin to 200,000 Kelvin.

Wolf-Rayet info for non-astronomers here:
 
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,747
4,677
✟348,144.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Wow, that is impressive how the AI managed to get the correct star classification. Wolf-Rayet stars are pretty hot, anywhere from 20,000 Kelvin to 200,000 Kelvin.

Wolf-Rayet info for non-astronomers here:
Here is an image I took of the nebula Sh2-308 nicknamed the Dolphin Head nebula surrounding the Wolf-Rayet star which has the blue halo near the centre.

sh2-308c.jpg
 
  • Winner
Reactions: AlexB23
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
9,227
10,115
✟283,319.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Wow, that is impressive how the AI managed to get the correct star classification. Wolf-Rayet stars are pretty hot, anywhere from 20,000 Kelvin to 200,000 Kelvin.
I was amused by your opening "Wow". The pnemonic I learned over half a century ago for the stellar spectral classes was Wow!Oh Be A Fine Girl Kiss Me Right Now Sweetie. I think R, N and S have long been dropped from the list, as has the opening W, which I think was for Wolf-Rayet stars, Hence my amusement at your use of it here. :)

@sjastro I continue to be in awe of your astronomical photographs.
 
Upvote 0

AlexB23

Christian
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,387
7,699
25
WI
✟644,618.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I was amused by your opening "Wow". The mnemonic I learned over half a century ago for the stellar spectral classes was Wow!Oh Be A Fine Girl Kiss Me Right Now Sweetie. I think R, N and S have long been dropped from the list, as has the opening W, which I think was for Wolf-Rayet stars, Hence my amusement at your use of it here. :)

@sjastro I continue to be in awe of your astronomical photographs.
Haha, that is a good mnemonic. Astronomers now use OBAFGKM for main sequence stars. Our sun is a G class star. :) And yes, @sjastro has better photos than anything in an Astronomy magazine.
 
Upvote 0

AlexB23

Christian
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,387
7,699
25
WI
✟644,618.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Here is an image I took of the nebula Sh2-308 nicknamed the Dolphin Head nebula surrounding the Wolf-Rayet star which has the blue halo near the centre.

That is a tenuous, but beautiful nebula. What is the name/catalog number of the bright yellow/gold star on the right side of the nebula's bubble?
 
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,747
4,677
✟348,144.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Haha, that is a good mnemonic. Astronomers now use OBAFGKM for main sequence stars. Our sun is a G class star. :) And yes, @sjastro has better photos than anything in an Astronomy magazine.
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration professional images using equipment with a vastly greater dollar value wins hands down.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: AlexB23
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,747
4,677
✟348,144.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
  • Informative
Reactions: AlexB23
Upvote 0

AlexB23

Christian
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,387
7,699
25
WI
✟644,618.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration professional images using equipment with a vastly greater dollar value wins hands down.
Agreed, but your $3K scope does a good job at capturing images of distant nebula. Imagine bringing your telescope to a high mountain, you would probably get better images due to the lower atmospheric density. Thin air allows for less distortion.
 
Upvote 0

AlexB23

Christian
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,387
7,699
25
WI
✟644,618.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,747
4,677
✟348,144.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Wow, Omicron1 Canis Majoris is a K-type star and is massive (and only 18 million years old from the article). EZ Canis Majoris is almost 90,000 K, so that star is very hot. Would not want to travel near a Wolf-Rayet star in the USS Enterprise, cos the sunburns would be awful, even for a brown man such as myself.
Stars such as our Sun are in hydrostatic equilibrium where the gravitational force balances out the outward gas and radiation pressure.

hydrostatic-equilibrium-l.jpg

If the star is extremely massive such as a Wolf Rayet star not only is the temperature much higher than a Main sequence - Wikipedia star but the intense radiation pressure creates stellar winds which disrupts the equilibrium and causes the star's outer layers to blow off creating the nebula structure as shown in the Sh2-308 image.

Screen-Shot-2022-10-16-at-9.23.04-PM-1024x671.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlexB23
Upvote 0

AlexB23

Christian
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,387
7,699
25
WI
✟644,618.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Stars such as our Sun are in hydrostatic equilibrium where the gravitational force balances out the outward gas and radiation pressure.

hydrostatic-equilibrium-l.jpg

If the star is extremely massive such as a Wolf Rayet star not only is the temperature much higher than a Main sequence - Wikipedia star but the intense radiation pressure creates stellar winds which disrupt the equilibrium and cause the star's outer layers to blow off creating the nebula structure as shown in the Sh2-308 image.

Screen-Shot-2022-10-16-at-9.23.04-PM-1024x671.png
That is pretty beautiful, how physics can make these nebula. God planned the universe in such a way to allow these stars to have just the right mass and thermal properties to allow these nebula to form. :) Once these stars become too unstable, a supernova will happen, and we will get a supernova remnant.
 
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,747
4,677
✟348,144.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
That is pretty beautiful, how physics can make these nebula. God planned the universe in such a way to allow these stars to have just the right mass and thermal properties to allow these nebula to form. :) Once these stars become too unstable, a supernova will happen, and we will get a supernova remnant.
How a star ends depends on how massive it is.
Gravity forces fusion of nuclei primarily hydrogen and helium in the stellar core, there is an excess of energy when fusion occurs which contributes to the outwards pressure and prevents the core from collapsing.

In very massive stars heavier nuclei are produced through the fusion of lighter nuclei, as the nuclei becomes heavier there is less excess energy available as these nuclei fuse.

CNX_UPhysics_43_02_BindingEng.jpg

The cores of very massive stars resemble an onion where the heaviest nuclei iron exists at the centre.

Core.png

The fusion of iron in the core does not produce excess energy and gravity causes the iron core to collapse.
Electrons in the star’s outer layers are forced into the nuclei and combine with the protons to produce neutrons.

The core is now composed of neutron degenerate matter which cannot undergo further compression due to the Pauli exclusion principle - Wikipedia where the neutrons cannot occupy the same energy levels.
This causes the neutron core to rebound violently and creates powerful shock waves resulting in the supernova and a neutron star remnant.

This is one scenario if the star is very massive the core can collapse and form a black hole instead of a neutron star.
Most stars however end up as white dwarfs, they do not have sufficient mass to fuse heavier elements, instead after hydrogen and helium is used up they cannot fuse nuclei heavier than carbon and oxygen and end their lives in a quiet fashion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlexB23
Upvote 0

AlexB23

Christian
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,387
7,699
25
WI
✟644,618.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
How a star ends depends on how massive it is.
Gravity forces fusion of nuclei primarily hydrogen and helium in the stellar core, there is an excess of energy when fusion occurs which contributes to the outwards pressure and prevents the core from collapsing.

In very massive stars heavier nuclei are produced through the fusion of lighter nuclei, as the nuclei becomes heavier there is less excess energy available as these nuclei fuse.

CNX_UPhysics_43_02_BindingEng.jpg

The cores of very massive stars resemble an onion where the heaviest nuclei iron exists at the centre.


The fusion of iron in the core does not produce excess energy and gravity causes the iron core to collapse.
Electrons in the star’s outer layers are forced into the nuclei and combine with the protons to produce neutrons.

The core is now composed of neutron degenerate matter which cannot undergo further compression due to the Pauli exclusion principle - Wikipedia where the neutrons cannot occupy the same energy levels.
This causes the neutron core to rebound violently and creates powerful shock waves resulting in the supernova and a neutron star remnant.

This is one scenario if the star is very massive the core can collapse and form a black hole instead of a neutron star.
Most stars however end up as white dwarfs, they do not have sufficient mass to fuse heavier elements, instead after hydrogen and helium is used up they cannot fuse nuclei heavier than carbon and oxygen and end their lives in a quiet fashion.
I remember learning about this. A star has to be around 8 solar masses in order to go supernova. Neutron stars at the end of smaller supernovas may become pulsars, or magnetars. It is funny how iron is the most stable element. Just think, really massive stars have metal cores at millions of degrees. That's totally metal, man. :)

Our sun is not massive enough, so it will become a white dwarf.
 
Upvote 0

AlexB23

Christian
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,387
7,699
25
WI
✟644,618.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0

AlexB23

Christian
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,387
7,699
25
WI
✟644,618.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Why does the iron core in a massive star rebound in a supernova explosion?
Alright, I will plug it in to Mistral AI. As I am watching a video, the AI gets slowed down a lot. Only 8 gigs of RAM on my laptop. It might take 20 minutes or so to respond. If my computer was not playing any videos or hooked up to the TV, it would only take mere minutes to answer.
 
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,747
4,677
✟348,144.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Since this thread is about AI here is GPT-4o's explanation of a core collapse supernova.

View attachment 353565
I wasn't entirely satisfied with this response as it made no mention of the role of the Pauli exclusion principle in providing the neutron degeneracy pressure in the supernova mechanism.
I quizzed GPT-4o about it.

Core3.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlexB23
Upvote 0

AlexB23

Christian
CF Ambassadors
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2023
11,387
7,699
25
WI
✟644,618.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I wasn't entirely satisfied with this response as it made no mention of the role of the Pauli exclusion principle in providing the neutron degeneracy pressure in the supernova mechanism.
I quizzed GPT-4o about it.

View attachment 353566
This GPT-4o is pretty smart. :) I do not see any flaws in the response you posted here.
 
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,747
4,677
✟348,144.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
This GPT-4o is pretty smart. :) I do not see any flaws in the response you posted here.
GPT-4o claimed the rebounding mechanism was caused by infalling gases colliding into the incompressible core.
This sudden deacceleration created the shockwaves leading to the supernova.

This is not the primary mechanism the rebound of the core due the Pauli exclusion principle which GPT-4o eventually acknowledged.

Core4.png


I still do not put 100% trust in AI, it does a good job at putting pseudoscience ideas to the sword such as windmills causing global climate change but it can still fall short with the nuances of mainstream science.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: AlexB23
Upvote 0