AI learnt "something" from the Physical & Life Sciences Forum.

[sjastro]

Can you try this with asteroid Vesta? What would the Bing AI say? I am betting it would say "The image contains a gray item in the center. It could be a hail stone on a black table or a pebble".

This image summarizes the deficiencies in AI image recognition capabilities, in particular the context.

I think most individuals will perceive the image as being a territorial cat (appropriately named Satan) confronting a 6 ft+ kangaroo holding its ground and in a combat stance.
(Fortunately there was a happy ending as a few seconds later the kangaroo took to flight.)

What did Bing make of the image?

The image shows a kangaroo standing upright in the middle of a dry grassy field. The kangaroo appears to be alert, with its ears perked up and looking towards the camera. The field is expansive, with dry yellow grass covering the ground. In the background, there are fences and further behind that, an open landscape under a clear sky during daylight. It’s a typical scene you might encounter in the Australian outback.

Bing exhibits no understanding of the context.

 

[AlexB23]

This image summarizes the deficiencies in AI image recognition capabilities, in particular the context.

View attachment 340845​

I think most individuals will perceive the image as being a territorial cat (appropriately named Satan) confronting a 6 ft+ kangaroo holding its ground and in a combat stance.
(Fortunately there was a happy ending as a few seconds later the kangaroo took to flight.)

What did Bing make of the image?



Bing exhibits no understanding of the context.

Yeah, AI is poor at recognizing context clues. That is a funny photo man, and that cat is very brave. Something Bing AI will never understand. By the way, LAION shut down their online version a few months ago. Hugging Face's AI is still up though, and uses a similar model to what LAION's Open Assistant used. People on OpenAssistant's subreddit say that LAION lost funding to keep their online AI up, so now it is only offline or something.

Here is an example when asking Hugging Face's AI about the plot of my favorite anime.

 

[sjastro]

While I was making derisive comments in this thread about AI's mathematical abilities being on the level of an idiot, Google DeepMind was testing and finally unveiled AlphaGeometry in January.

AlphaGeometry was benchmarked using 30 International Mathematics Olympiad problems.
The Olympiad is reserved for the brainiest high school students on the planet.

​

What is even more impressive is how it provided a geometry proof to one of the Olympiad questions which was compared to the proof provided by a mathematician.

​

To those who still think AI is nothing more than a sophisticated search engine which found the proof, this is another example of reinforcement learning where there was no human intervention; AlphaGeometry's proof for the problem is unique.

Now when AI can improve its abilities in algebra I will retract my comment they are idiots.

 

[SelfSim]

This image summarizes the deficiencies in AI image recognition capabilities, in particular the context.

View attachment 340845​

I think most individuals will perceive the image as being a territorial cat (appropriately named Satan) confronting a 6 ft+ kangaroo holding its ground and in a combat stance.
(Fortunately there was a happy ending as a few seconds later the kangaroo took to flight.)

What did Bing make of the image?



Bing exhibits no understanding of the context.

I reckon that image might have photoshopped too(?)
The roo's paws look way too big even for its overall size(?)
The contrast between the cat's back and the grass in the background looks way too sharp(?)
The cat's colour is somewhat suspect look too(?)

 

[sjastro]

I reckon that image might have photoshopped too(?)
The roo's paws look way too big even for its overall size(?)
The contrast between the cat's back and the grass in the background looks way too sharp(?)
The cat's colour is somewhat suspect look too(?)

I wish I took a video of the event.
I had to aggressively intervene to prevent the cat from being attacked and might have ended up being a victim myself by violating step 4 as shown in the following video.
(Thank goodness it was a roo and not a dropbear.)

 

[SelfSim]

I wish I took a video of the event.
I had to aggressively intervene to prevent the cat from being attacked and might have ended up being a victim myself by violating step 4 as shown in the following video.
(Thank goodness it was a roo and not a dropbear.)

Ha! So my conspiracy theory was wrong eh? Pity .. I love a good conspiracy theory involving photoshop!

Man, that night attack at the 4:00min mark was nasty!

How did you 'aggresively intervene' in your cat encounter? Did ya boot the cat out of the roo's striking range?
(I think I recall you bringing this issue up once before, but I can't remember exactly what you did?)

PS: Apologies for the diversion here .. (should resume on the AI topic, I guess).

 

[sjastro]

Ha! So my conspiracy theory was wrong eh? Pity .. I love a good conspiracy theory involving photoshop!

Man, that night attack at the 4:00min mark was nasty!

How did you 'aggresively intervene' in your cat encounter? Did ya boot the cat out of the roo's striking range?
(I think I recall you bringing this issue up once before, but I can't remember exactly what you did?)

PS: Apologies for the diversion here .. (should resume on the AI topic, I guess).

I charged the kangaroo screaming and yelling like a maniac while waving my camera around as a sling weapon when it took to flight.
The boot episode relates to my close encounter of the dangerous kind with the second most venomous snake on the planet described here.

 

[Neogaia777]

I charged the kangaroo screaming and yelling like a maniac while waving my camera around as a sling weapon when it took to flight.
The boot episode relates to my close encounter of the dangerous kind with the second most venomous snake on the planet described here.

You don't carry some kind of weapon if you know there could be the possibility of a situation like that?

I live in the US, in the Pacific Northwest, and I like to practice my survivalism skills sometimes, and camp all by myself out in the woods and the thick wilderness we have around here sometimes, etc, and we have things like bears, cougars, coyotes, and further north, wolves, etc, and I always take some kind of weapon with me always, etc, most usually a firearm or sidearm or two, if I ever know I could be in a situation like that, etc, but if that's Australia where you live, I don't think you're allowed to have those there, and they might protect the kangaroos more than they do the humans, etc, but and/or anyway, you don't at least carry a larger blade at least, etc? Because I think I would, etc.

And, you named your cat Satan?

God Bless.

 

[sjastro]

You don't carry some kind of weapon if you know there could be the possibility of a situation like that?

I live in the US, in the Pacific Northwest, and I like to practice my survivalism skills sometimes, and camp all by myself out in the woods and the thick wilderness we have around here sometimes, etc, and we have things like bears, cougars, coyotes, and further north, wolves, etc, and I always take some kind of weapon with me always, etc, most usually a firearm or sidearm or two, if I ever know I could be in a situation like that, etc, but if that's Australia where you live, I don't think you're allowed to have those there, and they might protect the kangaroos more than they do the humans, etc, but and/or anyway, you don't at least carry a larger blade at least, etc? Because I think I would, etc.

And, you named your cat Satan?

God Bless.

Despite the video hype, kangaroos are generally placid animals.
I've had 40 -50 kangaroos graze on my property at a time, I can walk amongst them without any problems if they feel threatened they disperse.

In Australia we don't walk around with guns, its not in our Constitution and we don't feel as threatened as you Americans about governments taking away our personal freedoms.
Living in a rural environment, I am legally allowed to own a gun (which I do not have have) but shooting kangaroos is not permitted as they are a protected species.

Yes my cat is a called Satan, it is a rescue cat and was named by the vet as a suggestion as to what I should call it.

 

[SelfSim]

Despite the video hype, kangaroos are generally placid animals.
I've had 40 -50 kangaroos graze on my property at a time, I can walk amongst them without any problems if they feel threatened they disperse.

In Australia we don't walk around with guns, its not in our Constitution and we don't feel as threatened as you Americans about governments taking away our personal freedoms.
Living in a rural environment, I am legally allowed to own a gun (which I do not have have) but shooting kangaroos is not permitted as they are a protected species.

Yes my cat is a called Satan, it is a rescue cat and was named by the vet as a suggestion as to what I should call it.

The cat is your weapon against the true enemy, eh?

Roos are majestic animals .. but way too prolific at times.

 

[Neogaia777]

Despite the video hype, kangaroos are generally placid animals.
I've had 40 -50 kangaroos graze on my property at a time, I can walk amongst them without any problems if they feel threatened they disperse.

In Australia we don't walk around with guns, its not in our Constitution and we don't feel as threatened as you Americans about governments taking away our personal freedoms.
Living in a rural environment, I am legally allowed to own a gun (which I do not have have) but shooting kangaroos is not permitted as they are a protected species.

Yes my cat is a called Satan, it is a rescue cat and was named by the vet as a suggestion as to what I should call it.

Well, I'm not suggesting that you get all trigger happy and just immediately open fire on the animal, but around here, bears and cougars and the like can be pretty intimidating, and aggressive at times, so if one starts to charge at you, then a firearm is nice to have in a case like that. No one that I know carries firearms around here in the cities or towns, etc, but just mainly out in wilderness/forests around here, etc.

I still can't believe you named your cat Satan, lol.

Here Satan kitty, meow, meow, lol.

God Bless.

 

[sjastro]

The cat is your weapon against the true enemy, eh?

Roos are majestic animals .. but way too prolific at times.

The cat seems to have a death wish.
It chases foxes off the property unaware that cats form a fox's diet.

For us rurals, roos are not majestic, they destroy fences, eat freshly planted saplings and make weird snorting and rasping sounds in the dead of night not leaving much to the imagination what they are up to.

 

[sjastro]

Well, I'm not suggesting that you get all trigger happy and just immediately open fire on the animal, but around here, bears and cougars and the like can be pretty intimidating, and aggressive at times, so if one starts to charge at you, then a firearm is nice to have in a case like that. No one that I know carries firearms around here in the cities or towns, etc, but just mainly out in wilderness/forests around here, etc.

I still can't believe you named your cat Satan, lol.

Here Satan kitty, meow, meow, lol.

God Bless.

Aren't bears and cougars a protective species in your country?
I can only kill a kangaroo if I applied for culling license otherwise the penalty for killing a kangaroo in the state of Victoria where I live can be imprisonment for up to 2 years and a $76,000 fine.

 

[Neogaia777]

Aren't bears and cougars a protective species in your country?
I can only kill a kangaroo if I applied for culling license otherwise the penalty for killing a kangaroo in the state of Victoria where I live can be imprisonment for up to 2 years and a $76,000 fine.

They can be hunted with a license and a tag during certain times of the year, and many do do that around here, and I kind of grew up that way, or grew up with that around here, etc. But if it's a killing in self-defense during non-authorized times of the year, and no license or tag, etc, the authorities or whomever will most usually look the other way, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

Aren't bears and cougars a protective species in your country?
I can only kill a kangaroo if I applied for culling license otherwise the penalty for killing a kangaroo in the state of Victoria where I live can be imprisonment for up to 2 years and a $76,000 fine.

They can be hunted with a license and a tag during certain times of the year, and many do do that around here, and I kind of grew up that way, or grew up with that around here, etc. But if it's a killing in self-defense during non-authorized times of the year, and no license or tag, etc, the authorities or whomever will most usually look the other way, etc.

God Bless.

Poaching of almost any animal around here though, can come with jail and/or possibly prison time, and a hefty fine though.

That's why we have hunting seasons for most animals around here, that are most usually in or around the fall season, but that almost all require a individual license and a tag for, or can otherwise come with possible jail and/or prison time, and a hefty fine, etc. I forget exactly how much, etc.

But it's part of how I grew up around here, and while I haven't done it in a while, many of my relatives still do, and it used to be most especially, one of the ways we used to keep everyone fed throughout the winter around here, etc.

For bears and cougars though, I think they only issue so many licenses/tags per year, just enough to keep the population down enough to keep them from coming down into the cities and towns and rural residential areas I think, etc.

We're surrounded by thick forest wilderness around here where I live, etc.

God Bless.

 

[SelfSim]

Apologies here for accidentally diverting focus away from the example of AlphaGeometry's unique proof (which I needed time to assimilate .. and the roo/cat sub-discussion (somehow) provided the contrast for me to rise above the detail .. ).

FWIW: I drew my own conclusions on the AI & Trust thread here (if interested).

 

[sjastro]

I decided to check up on AI's development for answering complex questions this time involving a university exam question on quantum mechanics from my time as a student.
These type of questions cannot be answered with the use of rote learning but an understanding of the subject is required.

(a) Let s₁ and s₂ be the spin operators of two spin ½ particles.

Find the simultaneous eigenfunctions of the operators s² and sz where s = s₁ + s₂.
Show these are also the eigenfunctions of the operator s₁.s₂.

(b) A quantum mechanical angular momentum is characterized by three operators Mx, My and Mz which satisfy.

MaMb – MbMa = iMϒ where a, b ϒ stand for x,y,z in in cyclic permutation and in addition satisfies the identities
M³a= Ma (a = x, y, or z).
Show the total angular momentum of this system can only be 0 or √2h.

ChatGPT-3 response.

This is remarkable although ChatGPT-3 gave the answer for M² = 2h² when the question was for the total angular momentum M which is the square root and equals √2h.
ChatGPT-3 should have included this extra step to be 100% correct.

This leads to another question whether AI now passes the Turing test.

 

[sjastro]

Last December I asked AI to identify this image I took of the Trifid Nebula.

It (Bing) came up with a truly idiotic response.

The image you’ve shared appears to be of a starry sky with numerous stars of varying sizes and brightness. However, there’s a blurred rectangular section in the middle of the image. The colors in this blurred section transition from darker at the top to lighter at the bottom. The specific content within this obscured portion is not clear due to the blur. The overall mood of the image is quite mysterious due to this obscured central portion. If you could provide more context or a clearer image, I might be able to give a more specific identification.

Today I posed the same question to GPT-4o and while it struggles to understand mathematical equations which are scanned and submitted as an image, it has no problems correctly identifying the image.

The image you uploaded appears to show the Trifid Nebula, also known as Messier 20 or M20. It is a famous H II region in the constellation Sagittarius. The Trifid Nebula is notable for its three-lobed appearance, which gives it its name. This object is a combination of an open cluster of stars, an emission nebula, a reflection nebula, and a dark nebula.
Would you like more information about the Trifid Nebula or any specific aspects of it?

One of the reasons for the improvements in AI performance is the increasing role of non humans (intelligent agents) in the training process.
GPT-5 will see the role of intelligent agents expanded.

 

[sjastro]

Since intelligent agents are now playing a significant role and taking over from humans, I decided to test GPT-4o’s intelligent agent with another one of my images this time the Hydra Galaxy cluster.

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To give GPO-4o’s intelligent agent a fair chance I provided information about the telescope I was using and the orientation of the CCD relative to the mount axes.
This gave the intelligent agent detail about the image scale and the orientation of the CCD to the right ascension and declination axes.

The challenge this time was for GPT-4o to not only identify the image but also the individual galaxies in the image as well as their coordinates.
GPT-4o was handicapped by not having access to any astronomical databases.
This is what it came up with.

The intelligent agent correctly identified the brighter galaxies while the grid lines on the image indicated my CCD was slightly mis-orientated.
The labelling of the axes is somewhat haphazard, the Dec axis is in degrees ranging from -90 to +90 while the RA axis is in hours minutes and seconds.
Still this is quite impressive for an intelligent agent without access to databases using a grid to approximate the positions.

GPO-4o explained the role of the intelligent agent in the process.

Finally as a comparison when humans are 100% involved and have access to astronomical databases the following information is generated.
Yellow designation is for stars in the field.
Red designation are for the major galaxies and teal is for minor or faint galaxies in the field..

 

[AlexB23]

Since intelligent agents are now playing a significant role and taking over from humans, I decided to test GPT-4o’s intelligent agent with another one of my images this time the Hydra Galaxy cluster.

View attachment 352866
​

To give GPO-4o’s intelligent agent a fair chance I provided information about the telescope I was using and the orientation of the CCD relative to the mount axes.
This gave the intelligent agent detail about the image scale and the orientation of the CCD to the right ascension and declination axes.

The challenge this time was for GPT-4o to not only identify the image but also the individual galaxies in the image as well as their coordinates.
GPT-4o was handicapped by not having access to any astronomical databases.
This is what it came up with.

View attachment 352869

The intelligent agent correctly identified the brighter galaxies while the grid lines on the image indicated my CCD was slightly mis-orientated.
The labelling of the axes is somewhat haphazard, the Dec axis is in degrees ranging from -90 to +90 while the RA axis is in hours minutes and seconds.
Still this is quite impressive for an intelligent agent without access to databases using a grid to approximate the positions.

GPO-4o explained the role of the intelligent agent in the process.

View attachment 352870

Finally as a comparison when humans are 100% involved and have access to astronomical databases the following information is generated.
Yellow designation is for stars in the field.
Red designation are for the major galaxies and teal is for minor or faint galaxies in the field..

View attachment 352867​

Have you thought about using RAG (retrieval augmented generation)?