Fully Mature Universe

[Mark Quayle]

We might as well ask: Could the universe have come into existence last Thursday? Or, could God have created all that we know as life in this world last Thursday? There's no reason to assume God could not create everything fully mature, with memories and histories, just last Thursday. In terms of power, that is not impossible for God to do. But does that make sense given what we understand?

Consider this. Whether or not God made it all last Thursday, would it make any difference? It's rather obvious we would not know the difference.

But, I mean, from God's point-of-view —is it really any different? My current inclination on the matter is that it is both, but most interestingly, not merely by God's timelessness, but by actual different temporal points of view. (No, it is not a developed theory. I don't understand modern physics well enough.)

 

[AlexB23]

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No where does The Bible state God created a universe where the sun, moon and stars are in an outer space millions to billions of miles and light years away from earth.

The Bible states God created heaven(s) and the earth and placed the sun, moon and stars in The raqia between to bodies of water.

The creation of a universe is a scientific creation lie.

Bro, we have sent space probes to far out planets within our solar system, so that means the universe is pretty big. Might want to check up on your Hebrew again, as Hebrew can sometimes be a poetic language. But hey, I will not judge you if you believe the universe is only a few dozen thousand miles across. Based upon all the evidence, the universe is billions of light-years across.

Voyager 1:

Voyager 1 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Bobber]

Guys, could the 6 days be the length of time that passes in heaven, while billions of years pass on Earth?

That would be pretty weird though right. Those days in Genesis speak of morning and night of each day on earth.

 

[AlexB23]

That would be pretty weird though right. Those days in Genesis speak of morning and night of each day on earth.

It would be weird, but God works in weird ways, and the Hebrew can use metaphors.

 

[public hermit]

Consider this. Whether or not God made it all last Thursday, would it make any difference? It's rather obvious we would not know the difference

I completely agree. Things would seem exactly as they do now.

 

[d taylor]

Bro, we have sent space probes to far out planets within our solar system, so that means the universe is pretty big. Might want to check up on your Hebrew again, as Hebrew can sometimes be a poetic language. But hey, I will not judge you if you believe the universe is only a few dozen thousand miles across. Based upon all the evidence, the universe is billions of light-years across.

Voyager 1:

Voyager 1 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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Genesis 1 is not a poem, a parable or metaphor it is describing God's act of His restoration of the heaven and earth God created in Genesis 1:1.

If you do not believe Genesis 1 as written and want to take science's version over the creation account in Genesis 1, that is ok with me.

But if a person believes Genesis 1 as written there is no way God's creation agrees with what science states is reality.

If you want to believe what science states fine, but just admit you are believing what science states. That this is believed by faith and not this so call personal observation where you use words like "we" . Because if i am correct you are just like 99% of the rest of people. Your knowledge of what science states they do or are doing comes from reading stories from the internet and watching youtube videos.

So you can believe "we" have been to space if you want. But actually the correct wording would be. Theses scientist says they have been to space and have done this and done that.

But i know God states He created lights to give light to the earth. Not created lights to give light to a nonexistent solor system.
Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
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Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

 

[Platte]

Many Christians freely accept that Adam was created from dust, into a fully mature adult human male, yet stop short of accepting that God created a fully mature universe for him to exist in, which includes light from stars millions of light years away. A God that is so weak He has to adhere to the very "rules of nature" that He created, is unworthy of admiration in my estimation, and certainly not the God of the Bible. What say you?

Creation was 6000 years ago - and took God 6 days to complete (24 hours days)....not sure how you could create something without age. Draw me a picture of a tree that doesn't have age.

God created everything at the age he deemed functional for mankind to live on Earth....and in order for Earth to be habitable for man everything in the Universe would have to line up and be perfect....just as it is. The universe we see today is what God created 6000 years ago (aside from the very minor changes that have occured in the past 6000 years).

Pastor Keith you are spot on. God Bless.

 

[AlexB23]

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Genesis 1 is not a poem, a parable or metaphor it is describing God's act of His restoration of the heaven and earth God created in Genesis 1:1.

If you do not believe Genesis 1 as written and want to take science's version over the creation account in Genesis 1, that is ok with me.

But if a person believes Genesis 1 as written there is no way God's creation agrees with what science states is reality.

If you want to believe what science states fine, but just admit you are believing what science states. That this is believed by faith and not this so call personal observation where you use words like "we" . Because if i am correct you are just like 99% of the rest of people. Your knowledge of what science states they do or are doing comes from reading stories from the internet and watching youtube videos.

So you can believe "we" have been to space if you want. But actually the correct wording would be. Theses scientist says they have been to space and have done this and done that.

But i know God states He created lights to give light to the earth. Not created lights to give light to a nonexistent solor system.
Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
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Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Nah... I have more important things to do. God bless.

 

[PastorKeith]

Supernatural can still be natural. God is natural not unnatural therefore His supernatural actions are actually natural to Him. Its OK if God supernaturally followed a natural course of events. It is in His will not to cause confusion. Young earth is confusing therefore why not adhere to His creation as it unfolds through discovery. Why some reject it, I'll never understand.

What is confusing about Genesis? God is not natural, He exists outside of creation.

 

[Bobber]

Young earth is confusing therefore why not adhere to His creation as it unfolds through discovery. Why some reject it, I'll never understand.

Maybe I can help you with that. It would because those who are claiming the "discovery" of things are biased and they potentially exaggerate what they say.

 

[Jonaitis]

Many Christians freely accept that Adam was created from dust, into a fully mature adult human male, yet stop short of accepting that God created a fully mature universe for him to exist in, which includes light from stars millions of light years away. A God that is so weak He has to adhere to the very "rules of nature" that He created, is unworthy of admiration in my estimation, and certainly not the God of the Bible. What say you?

It doesn't follow when we consider how light travels. Sure, Yahweh could have created a fully mature universe with stars millions of light years away, but that doesn't explain the fact that it still indicates the distance of its journey.

 

[PastorKeith]

It doesn't follow when we consider how light travels. Sure, Yahweh could have created a fully mature universe with stars millions of light years away, but that doesn't explain the fact that it still indicates the distance of its journey.

I am not sure I follow your statement, so let me ask you this, do you believe Adam looked up from Garden of Eden and saw stars in the night sky? I believe he absolutely did, as we read this in Genesis 1:

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Many Christians freely accept that Adam was created from dust, into a fully mature adult human male, yet stop short of accepting that God created a fully mature universe for him to exist in, which includes light from stars millions of light years away. A God that is so weak He has to adhere to the very "rules of nature" that He created, is unworthy of admiration in my estimation, and certainly not the God of the Bible. What say you?

Yes, and.

Since the first day of creation was based on a light that is no longer visible for observation, since it was covered by the setting of sun, moon, and stars on the fourth day .. there are two timeframes at work here. One we have access to by looking up at the sky, and one we do not.

To assert a definite answer based on a lack of information sounds like arrogance, so I avoid making a conclusion (on how old the earth or universe are) based on the bible.

It is not to say God couldn't create a heaven and earth in one moment, but based on other decisions God made in creating the world: He did so by process, getting creations involved so the whole thing worked in harmony.

Currently, there are signs in the prophetic record that God is currently making a new heaven and new earth as we speak. God could have snapped His fingers and immediately fixed what happened at the fall of humanity ... However, since God is relational in nature and likes to get other creations involved .. chose not to.

 

[ralliann]

Creation was 6000 years ago - and took God 6 days to complete (24 hours days)....not sure how you could create something without age. Draw me a picture of a tree that doesn't have age.

God created everything at the age he deemed functional for mankind to live on Earth....and in order for Earth to be habitable for man everything in the Universe would have to line up and be perfect....just as it is. The universe we see today is what God created 6000 years ago (aside from the very minor changes that have occured in the past 6000 years).

Pastor Keith you are spot on. God Bless.

How long was/is his rest?

 

[Jonaitis]

I am not sure I follow your statement, so let me ask you this, do you believe Adam looked up from Garden of Eden and saw stars in the night sky? I believe he absolutely did, as we read this in Genesis 1:

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

The account of Genesis 1 should not be taken literally as it would condradict observable facts about our universe. You have the presence of water (v. 2) before the presence of any light source. We have concrete evidence that distant stars are much older than our planet, and this is one peice of evidence that we don't live in a young universe.

 

[PastorKeith]

The account of Genesis 1 should not be taken literally as it would condradict observable facts about our universe. You have the presence of water (v. 2) before the presence of any light source. We have concrete evidence that distant stars are much older than our planet, and this is one peice of evidence that we don't live in a young universe.

You were not present during the creation event, neither was I or any scientist. God was present and tells us precisely what happened during that supernatural event. There is ZERO contradiction. You are simply trying to stuff the Bible into your science book and when it doesn't fit, your brain becomes confused.

 

[Platte]

How long was/is his rest?

God rested on the 7th day (24 hours)

 

[Jonaitis]

You were not present during the creation event, neither was I or any scientist. God was present and tells us precisely what happened during that supernatural event. There is ZERO contradiction. You are simply trying to stuff the Bible into your science book and when it doesn't fit, your brain becomes confused.

Genesis 1 is not a historical account, therefore, we cannot discuss science into it.

 

[PastorKeith]

How long was his rest?

Genesis 1 is not a historical account, therefore, we cannot discuss science into it.

The entire book of Genesis is a historical account, what are you talking about?

 

[ralliann]

God rested on the 7th day (24 hours)

I believe the Sabbath rest of the law is a mere shadow per Hebrews. The book speaks of the rest of God as not a day (24 hours) but the rest of an inheritance. Which the law also testifies to.

Ex 33:14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.

De 12:9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.
De 12:10 But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;
De 25:19 Therefore it shall be, when the LORD thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it,
Which rest was in Joshua ( Jesus in Hebrews)
Jos 22:4 And now the LORD your God hath given rest unto your brethren, as he promised them: therefore now return ye, and get you unto your tents, and unto the land of your possession, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave you on the other side Jordan.

Heb 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
1 ¶ Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. {the word … : Gr. the word of hearing } {not being … : or, because they were not united by faith to }
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: