Franklin Graham says ‘Christian nationalism’ is a ‘coin the media came up with’

[Hammster]

So, it's not the standard for lawmaking?

Of course it’s the standard.

 

[public hermit]

Of course it’s the standard.

But it contains laws that should not be enacted as laws?

 

[Hammster]

But it contains laws that should not be enacted as laws?

Are you actually inquisitive, or are you being deliberately obtuse?

 

[public hermit]

Are you actually inquisitive, or are you being deliberately obtuse?

I'm patiently waiting for your clarification.

 

[Hammster]

I'm patiently waiting for your clarification.

Christians should oppose all laws that are anti-biblical.

 

[public hermit]

Christians should oppose all laws that are anti-biblical.

Should they accept all laws that are biblical?

 

[Hammster]

Should they accept all laws that are biblical?

Define what you mean by biblical.

 

[public hermit]

Define what you mean by biblical.

I.e., found in the Bible.

 

[Hammster]

I.e., found in the Bible.

Then yes. I hold to general equity theonomy. I don’t want enact all OT laws. But there is case law that we can use to craft laws that please God.

 

[The Barbarian]

On a national level, I believe, he emphasized separation of state from religion ( with the emphasis on religious freedom). The 1st Amendment seems to emphasize this.

Well, that's the thing. The Bill of Rights only restricted the federal government until the 14th amendment. After that, state governments had to respect our rights as well.

 

[iarwain]

Yeah, it doesn’t represent Catholicism or Orthodoxy at all.

Most people using the term "Christian nationalists" are trying to turn people against Christians and certain other groups. One of the threats they want to scare the left with is Christians being anti-abortion. That should represent the Catholics, at least.

 

[eclipsenow]

Evangelist Franklin Graham, the son of legendary evangelist Billy Graham, said in a recent interview that the term "Christian nationalism" is often used by the media as a tactic to polarize and divide the country.

Nope. I'm seeing the division in here!

What happened to a more biblical understanding of church and state?

 

[RickardoHolmes]

Merely being a Christian is not the same as the ideology of Christian nationalism.

I have met only a few people in person who want Christian Nationalism. I think it is mostly over hyped by the media. Remember, in order to sell Newspapers, as I was told in school, you have to make the story interesting. Even if it means "exaggerating' a little....

the few people who want a theocracy in our great nation are quick to point out that they (their little church/religion/group) should had this theocracy, with everyone else bowing down to them. Most of these people are of little intelligence/education (flat earthers, science deniers, etc ) but they all have a "Me against the world" delusion and fortunately, lack the ways or means to move beyond anything more than talk. And there have been few, in fact at this time I know only one. And we are talking not even about an insignificant movement, but insignificant people...not the sharpest knives in the drawer so to speak.

BUT let them have a minute with the media and it all blows up.

It will not happen. Our constitution remains the highest authority in our nation. It is the one document everyone has to obey.....and it will not allow it.

Anytime someone suggests Christian nationalism, I ask them instead to let us become a Muslim nation...or a Hindu nation...and show them how absurd the idea is.
Our founding fathers did not flee the religious mess in Europe to recreate a religious state here. They wisely, and thankfully, created a secular state....and that stands today. We are a nation of Americans first. We can choose any faith, any creed, any beliefs after that, but freedom to choose remains essential.
Take away the freedom of choice, and the country becomes another despot authoritarian mess. Like Iran. Or North Korea. Or Nazi Germany.....


People can still worship as they choose in America. I spend some Sundays in an Episcopal Church. I sometimes worship with my black friends at the Missionary Baptist church. there is a United Methodist church nearby I attend a couple of times a year. I also attend events in the city at the Catholic cathedral. And classes at the Buddhist temple. SO Yes, I appreciate and celebrate my freedom to worship in America as I choose
And aside from a few outliers, I never hear about Christian Nationalism in ANY of those areas.....

And the one person whom I talk to regularly who insists that America should be a theocracy (with his church at the head) has neither the intelligence or the motivation to ever be taken seriously

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Anytime someone suggests Christian nationalism, I ask them instead to let us become a Muslim nation...or a Hindu nation...and show them how absurd the idea is.
Our founding fathers did not flee the religious mess in Europe to recreate a religious state here. They wisely, and thankfully, created a secular state....and that stands today. We are a nation of Americans first. We can choose any faith, any creed, any beliefs after that, but freedom to choose remains essential.
Take away the freedom of choice, and the country becomes another despot authoritarian mess. Like Iran. Or North Korea. Or Nazi Germany.....

Is the idea of a Christian nation inherently absurd?

 

[RickardoHolmes]

Is the idea of a Christian nation inherently absurd?

Yes

If you want to live in a Christian Nation, move to the Vatican.
In America we are , and always will be, a secular nation

We may identify as Christians along the way, and we have the freedom to practice that religion if we choose. But we are a secular nation, and as such, our Constitution, the highest and final document in the land, states that laws may not be made to favor one religion over another, or to institute a national official religion.

 

[Hammster]

Yes

If you want to live in a Christian Nation, move to the Vatican.
In America we are , and always will be, a secular nation

We may identify as Christians along the way, and we have the freedom to practice that religion if we choose. But we are a secular nation, and as such, our Constitution, the highest and final document in the land, states that laws may not be made to favor one religion over another, or to institute a national official religion.

Scripture is the highest document in the land. As a Christian, you should know that.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Yes

If you want to live in a Christian Nation, move to the Vatican.
In America we are , and always will be, a secular nation

We may identify as Christians along the way, and we have the freedom to practice that religion if we choose. But we are a secular nation, and as such, our Constitution, the highest and final document in the land, states that laws may not be made to favor one religion over another, or to institute a national official religion.

Yes

If you want to live in a Christian Nation, move to the Vatican.
In America we are , and always will be, a secular nation

We may identify as Christians along the way, and we have the freedom to practice that religion if we choose. But we are a secular nation, and as such, our Constitution, the highest and final document in the land, states that laws may not be made to favor one religion over another, or to institute a national official religion.

So most of Christian history has been absurd in your opinion?

 

[RickardoHolmes]

Scripture is the highest document in the land. As a Christian, you should know that.

Nope not at all

Let me give you a specific example. The 13th Amendment of the US Constitution addresses slavery It reads

• "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction".
• "Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation".

Now the scripture ( I assume you mean the Bible although you did not expressly name it) Does in fact allow slavery, Eph 6:5-9; Col 3:22-4:1; 1 Tim 6:1-2; Tit 2:9-10; 1 Pet 2:18-20, even saying it is okay and allowable to beat Slaves so long as they do not die "with in a day or two" Exodus 21-20-21
Now beating someone to death, even if the Scripture condones it, is and will remain, a crime of aggravated assault

In the US both slavery and aggravated assault are crimes, and treated as such, Not the same as in the Bible as referenced above.

SO NO the Scripture (any scripture) is not the highest document in the land
AS an American and a law abiding citizen you should know that

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Nope not at all

Let me give you a specific example. The 13th Amendment of the US Constitution addresses slavery It reads

• "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction".
• "Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation".

Now the scripture ( I assume you mean the Bible although you did not expressly name it) Does in fact allow slavery, Eph 6:5-9; Col 3:22-4:1; 1 Tim 6:1-2; Tit 2:9-10; 1 Pet 2:18-20, even saying it is ok to beat Slaves so long as they do not die "with in a day or two" Exodus 21-20-21
Now beating someone to death, even if the Scriptire condones it, is and will remain, a crime of aggravated assault

In the US both slavery and aggravated assault are crimes, and treated as such, Not the same as in the Bible as referenced above.

SO NO the Scripture (any scripture) is not the highest document in the land
AS an American and a law abiding citizen you should know that

Should secular law in the USA take precedence in the mind of a Christian above any Christian moral commitments in your view? That is, if the law says one thing and Christian morality says another, we are to follow the secular law?

 

[Hammster]

Nope not at all

Let me give you a specific example. The 13th Amendment of the US Constitution addresses slavery It reads

• "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction".
• "Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation".

Now the scripture ( I assume you mean the Bible although you did not expressly name it) Does in fact allow slavery, Eph 6:5-9; Col 3:22-4:1; 1 Tim 6:1-2; Tit 2:9-10; 1 Pet 2:18-20, even saying it is okay and allowable to beat Slaves so long as they do not die "with in a day or two" Exodus 21-20-21
Now beating someone to death, even if the Scripture condones it, is and will remain, a crime of aggravated assault

In the US both slavery and aggravated assault are crimes, and treated as such, Not the same as in the Bible as referenced above.

SO NO the Scripture (any scripture) is not the highest document in the land
AS an American and a law abiding citizen you should know that

Wow. I can’t believe that someone who names the name of Christ would subjugate the Bible under the Constitution.

Never mind. I’ve been on these forums too long to be surprised.