Franklin Graham says ‘Christian nationalism’ is a ‘coin the media came up with’

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

There are two kinds of kingdoms, God's kingdom and the kingdoms of the world. The USA is a worldly kingdom even at its best, and followers of Christ have to make that distinction clear in their own minds and hearts.

Who is confusing the Kingdom of God for any nation on earth?

 

[Quasiblogo]

Well said, Rev Graham. It is a coin with Caesar on both sides. Followers of Jesus do not accept such currency.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Merely being a Christian is not the same as the ideology of Christian nationalism.

Very true. Only some Christians will be 'Christian Nationalists'. I'm wondering about Christian Nationalists of the Left and am not convinced that they aren't a thing too.

 

[FireDragon76]

Very true. Only some Christians will be 'Christian Nationalists'. I'm wondering about Christian Nationalists of the Left and am not convinced that they aren't a thing too.

Left-of-center Christians generally don't conceive of Christianity as a national or civilizational project.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Left-of-center Christians generally don't conceive of Christianity as a national or civilizational project.

They tend to conceive of Christianity in purely individualistic terms and so will do anything to undermine public or societal Christianity.

 

[Tuur]

Very true. Only some Christians will be 'Christian Nationalists'. I'm wondering about Christian Nationalists of the Left and am not convinced that they aren't a thing too.

Given that politically left-leaning Christians believe their faith means support for things like liberation theology, that's pretty much a given. Since the Democrats and their media consider them at best fellow travelers and at least politically useful, you won't hear anything made of it at all.

 

[FireDragon76]

Given that politically left-leaning Christians believe their faith means support for things like liberation theology, that's pretty much a given. Since the Democrats and their media consider them at best fellow travelers and at least politically useful, you won't hear anything made of it at all.

That's changing the subject. Liberation theology isn't obviously compatible with nationalism, in fact they tend not to go together well at all, since most nationalists uphold traditional social hierarchies as normative.

 

[chevyontheriver]

That's changing the subject. Liberation theology isn't obviously compatible with nationalism, in fact they tend not to go together well at all, since most nationalists uphold traditional social hierarchies as normative.

What makes a ‘Nationalist’?

 

[Tuur]

What makes a ‘Nationalist’?

Someone who supports nationalism. It's amusing that the term is used in a pejorative sense by those on the left, since leftist nationalism is easy to demonstrate. Someone who support liberation theology with the goal; of establishing a new order of things is just as much a nationalist as an American who sees the US example of a republic as a shining light on a hill.

 

[The Barbarian]

The “separation of church and state” never seems to indicate anything other than a negative implication of Christianity.

I figure we should render unto Caesar what is his, and to God what is His.

If they want to call it "separation of church and state" as Jefferson, Madison, and others wrote, OK by me.

 

[Lukaris]

I figure we should render unto Caesar what is his, and to God what is His.

If they want to call it "separation of church and state" as Jefferson, Madison, and others wrote, OK by me.

I believe Pastor Franklin made his point consistent with the Lord’s telling us what to render to God & Caesar. I believe the founding fathers were consistent in their time. To be consistent with the founding fathers, it is a multi religious society now and separation of state from religion should be our current understanding. To single out Christianity in a changed society is discrimination and inconsistent.

 

[The Barbarian]

I believe the founding fathers were consistent in their time. To be consistent with the founding fathers, it is a multi religious society now and separation of state from religion should be our current understanding. To single out Christianity in a changed society is discrimination and inconsistent.

As Jefferson remarked, the intent of the Founders was clear:
Jefferson reported triumphantly that the legislative effort to insert “Jesus Christ” in the preamble to the Virginia Statute was defeated, establishing that religious freedom was “meant to comprehend, within the mantle of it’s protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo and infidel of every denomination.”[
Jefferson, Autobiography, 1821

 

[FireDragon76]

Someone who supports nationalism. It's amusing that the term is used in a pejorative sense by those on the left, since leftist nationalism is easy to demonstrate. Someone who support liberation theology with the goal; of establishing a new order of things is just as much a nationalist as an American who sees the US example of a republic as a shining light on a hill.

Liberation theology isn't necessarily about establishing order. In fact its not concerned particularly about order at all. What you perceive as establishing order, is more about critiquing unjust power in the light of the revelation of God in Jesus Christ.

 

[Lukaris]

As Jefferson remarked, the intent of the Founders was clear:
Jefferson reported triumphantly that the legislative effort to insert “Jesus Christ” in the preamble to the Virginia Statute was defeated, establishing that religious freedom was “meant to comprehend, within the mantle of it’s protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo and infidel of every denomination.”[
Jefferson, Autobiography, 1821

Then it sounds like Jefferson was clearly being consistent with the establishment clause in the 1st Amendment in the US Constitution, That is clearly the separation of state from religion.

Amendment I​

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

The Bill of Rights: A Transcription

[get-content name="print-page-left" include-tag="false" /] Note: The following text is a transcription of the enrolled original of the Joint Resolution of Congress proposing the Bill of Rights, which is on permanent display in the Rotunda at the National Archives Museum. The spelling and...

www.archives.gov

 

[Hammster]

Christians should oppose all laws that are anti-biblical. You would think that would be something we all agree on.

 

[The Barbarian]

Christians should oppose all laws that are anti-biblical. You would think that would be something we all agree on.

Nothing in the establishment clause or its application in law is anti-Biblical.

Then it sounds like Jefferson was clearly being consistent with the establishment clause in the 1st Amendment in the US Constitution, That is clearly the separation of state from religion.

Yep. If you can't practice your religion, or if other people can impose their religion on you, you don't have freedom of religion.

 

[public hermit]

Christians should oppose all laws that are anti-biblical.

Should all biblical laws be enacted?

 

[Hammster]

Should all biblical laws be enacted?

No. And I’ve never said otherwise.

 

[Lukaris]

Nothing in the establishment clause or its application in law is anti-Biblical.

Yep. If you can't practice your religion, or if other people can impose their religion on you, you don't have freedom of religion.

I also think Jefferson’s perspective on the separation of church and state was based on the original Virginia colony as having the Anglican Church as its state church. He obviously knew the US states ( & formerly as colonies) had different constitutions regarding religion. I know Pennsylvania being Quaker, had no concept of a state church, had multi religious freedom but did require the legislators to be Christian. On a national level, I believe, he emphasized separation of state from religion ( with the emphasis on religious freedom). The 1st Amendment seems to emphasize this.

 

[public hermit]

No. And I’ve never said otherwise.

So, it's not the standard for lawmaking?