The Church started in the wilderness

[SabbathBlessings]

A simple yes or no will do.

Would you support shutting down Sunday services?

I support obeying God the way He asks.

There is nothing in all of scripture where God sanctified, blessed or made holy the weekly first day, He said it was for works and labors Exo 20:9. Sunday keeping is a tradition of man, not a commandment of God. Jesus said we should keep the commandments of God over our traditions. Mat 15:3-14

It doesn't matter what I think, what did Jesus teach- how did Jesus live. Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments, Jesus kept the Sabbath, He died not only to take the penalty of sin, which is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 when we confess and forsake them Pro 28:13 but He lived to show us the Way a righteous person lives and led by example, our example 1 John 2:6 We will never go wrong by following Christ, its when we get off that narrow path, there is danger.

 

[BeyondET]

I support obeying God the way He asks.

There is nothing in all of scripture where God sanctified, blessed or made holy the weekly first day, He said it was for works and labors Exo 20:9. Sunday keeping is a tradition of man, not a commandment of God. Jesus said we should keep the commandments of God over our traditions. Mat 15:3-14

It doesn't matter what I think, what did Jesus teach- how did Jesus live. Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments, Jesus kept the Sabbath, He died not only to take the penalty of sin, which is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 when we confess and forsake them Pro 28:13 but He lived to show us the Way a righteous person lives and led by example, our example 1 John 2:6 We will never go wrong by following Christ, its when we get off that narrow path, there is danger.

Then I assume it's yes, you would support shutting down Sunday services.

How many times did the Pharisees jump on Jesus about breaking sabbath laws?

 

[JulieB67]

Preaching and reading God's Word on the Sabbath is a way to obverse the Sabbath.

It's not proof in itself that someone is observing the Sabbath. People can preach and read God's Word any day of the week and naturally it would be on the Sabbath days that the Jews would be found. Again, Paul was all things to all people, meaning he would seek out people on the Sabbath.

s. Paul was imitating Christ, kept every Sabbath

There is no proof that he kept every Sabbath. He taught and preached all the time. It's just noted that it was on the Sabbath days because at that time it was the non believing Jews that he was teaching to that observed the Sabbath naturally. It doesn't state Paul himself kept the Sabbath.

The fact the Sabbath is still called the Sabbath in the NT

Of course it would be, especially before Christ had risen. And non believing Jews still observed it.

Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
- Acts 1:12

But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
- Acts 13:14

For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
- Acts 13:27

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
- Acts 13:42

And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
- Acts 13:44

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
- Acts 15:21

And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
- Acts 16:13

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
- Acts 17:2

And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
- Acts 18:4

There is a whole lot of Sabbath keeping going on the New Testament! The argument the apostles were not keeping the Sabbath is with the Text.

Not one of these verses is prove that the disciples/apostles "kept" the Sabbath. Traveling and preaching on those days is not proof. The only time the Sabbaths are mentioned in the NT after Christ is within preaching, teaching the Jews, etc on those days. That would be the day the Jews would not be working, in the synagogues, etc And after Acts, nothing. That again is context in itself. Paul taught for years and nothing is mentioned about him observing the Sabbath. Again, the Sabbath is only mentioned 10 times after the gospel of John. If it was so important to keep I'm sure it would have been noted. But the opposite is noted in Paul's teachings.

They mentioned they went to church on the Sabbath which is an example of keeping the Sabbath

There is no command from God that people can't go to church any day of the week. As I stated, the early churches met daily and the Lord added to the church daily.

It is fitting for a Christ follower to go to Church on the Sabbath-

Says you. One does not have to go to "Church" to worship God. There is no command from God that people can't gather every day.

he same day Christ did

Christ also taught that we would be sent the Holy Spirit and that dwelling should be 24/7. You can't get any closer to God at that point. Going to church on certain days is not a factor.

There is no scripture that says the Lords day is on Sunday. That is a man-made doctrine that is contrary to what God said in His own Words that He never rescinded. Who are we to speak for God.

Did you even read what I wrote? I stated the traditions of men have turned Sunday into the Lord's day. For the record, the Lord's day as noted in Rev is neither Sat or Sunday. It's just another way of stating the Day of the Lord. In the OT Hebrew the only way someone could state the Lord's day is the Day of the Lord. Because there is no adjective for "Lord's But that's another subject altogether that I've already posted on other numerous threads. John himself never called any day of the week, the Sabbath and first day included - the Lord's day. So again -traditions on both sides of the coin.

The point is both are traditions of men it comes to the words "the Lord's day" in Revelation. That is a prophetic book and the context speaks for itself.

Sunday is a commandment of the Catholic church. If you obey Rome- keep Sunday. If you obey God- keep the Sabbath. Whoever we obey is who we serve.

Not sure why you are directing this to me. I'm a non denominational that doesn't go to church period, that's my point. Too many false doctrines and traditions. I follow God/his Word. I don't think you are correctly reading my posts. I left my own church years ago after being fed up with all the false doctrine being taught.

Most churches today are about one or two verses of the Word surrounded by a personal sermon written by man that has nothing to do with the Word of God. One could spend a lifetime in a pew and come away having only received milk. Sad state indeed. If one can find one that just straight up teaches the word of God without the commentary of men that that would be good. But those are few and far between. And it's good to have teachers but we ourselves have to back up those teachers just as they did in the Bible.
But again, there is no command that one has to go to church to learn the Word of God. We are to study to show ourselves approved. Christ and Paul taught in the synagogues for his sake to bring people to him. Afterwards it's up to us how we worship and where we worship. No command from God states otherwise.

As you stated, it will work itself out.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Then I assume it's yes, you would support shutting down Sunday services.

How many times did the Pharisees jump on Jesus about breaking sabbath laws?

Sunday keeping is not a commandment of God. It is a tradition of man.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees for keeping their traditions over obeying the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Commandments Mat 15:3-14 Jesus said when we do this, we end up in a ditch, which is off the narrow path.

Sabbath-keeping is a commandment of God Exo 20:8-11 written on the Authority of God Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16 , that no one is above. The Sabbath is connected to our Creator Exo 20:11 God never wants us to forget who created us and where we came from. Keeping the Sabbath shows He is our God, we are His people Eze 20:20 He is the God that sanctifies Eze 20:12 no other god can do that, but sadly many choose their own sanctification and their own blessing over Christs. Keeping the Sabbath is more about love than anything. God said Remember- if our parent asked us to Remember something, would we do that to show love to them. Thats what God wants for us to obey Him because we love Him, even if its not the popular path most people take.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

II stated the traditions of men have turned Sunday into the Lord's day.

We can agree on that.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

How many times did the Pharisees jump on Jesus about breaking sabbath laws?

Also, Jesus never broke the Sabbath in the 4th commandment- the implication of this is serious, had He broke even one law and sinned, He could not be our Savior and all humanity would be lost. Jesus broke the sabbath of the Pharisees which was filled with their own man-made rules and regulations that God never required in His commandment . Why we are told not to add/subtract to His commandments Deut 4:2 because we are not God. When we start changing them, it essentially makes one their own god. Whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16

 

[BeyondET]

Sunday keeping is not a commandment of God. It is a tradition of man.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees for keeping their traditions over obeying the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Commandments Mat 15:3-14 Jesus said when we do this, we end up in a ditch, which is off the narrow path.

What was the tradition they were doing, that wasn't honoring their mother or father?

 

[BeyondET]

Also, Jesus never broke the Sabbath in the 4th commandment- the implication of this is serious, had He broke even one law and sinned, He could not be our Savior and all humanity would be lost. Jesus broke the sabbath of the Pharisees which was filled with their own man-made rules and regulations that God never required in His commandment . Why we are told not to add/subtract to His commandments Deut 4:2 because we are not God. When we start changing them, it essentially makes one their own god. Whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16

No that wasn't a man-made rule.

what that was about is doing good on a Sabbath.

Exodus 35:2
Six days work shall be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.

Matthew 12:11-12
He said to them, “Which one of you who has a sheep, if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not take hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

So honoring God on a Sunday is equally good.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What was the tradition they were doing, that wasn't honoring their mother or father?

Matthew 15: 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.

Jesus teaches in principles; this applies to any of the commandments, why He taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 15:3-14. Its best to obey God the way He asks, let God be God, we be His faithful servants.

 

[BeyondET]

Matthew 15: 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.

Jesus teaches in principles; this applies to any of the commandments, why He taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat 15:3-14. Its best to obey God the way He asks, let God be God, we be His faithful servants.

It as well says to put someone to death for working on the Sabbath.

Can't honor the Sabbath without including the possibility that some will have to be slain.

That holds true today if you honor the Sabbath on Saturday and demand it of others.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No that wasn't a man-made rule.

What wasn't a mad-made rule. You said Jesus broke the sabbath- what did He break in the Sabbath commandment?

what that was about is doing good on a Sabbath.

What was about? You didn't quote any scripture so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

Exodus 35:2
Six days work shall be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death.

This was when there was a theocracy. We are no longer under a theocracy, Judgement now is the last day.

Breaking God's law is still a sin 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 , that still carries the death penalty Rom 6:23 Mat 7:23 but if we are in Christ we would die to our sins and be reborn in Him Rom 6:1-4 Those in Christ keep His commandments through love and faith Rom 3:31 Rev 14:12 1 John 5:3

Matthew 12:11-12
He said to them, “Which one of you who has a sheep, if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not take hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

Yes, a good example of what wasn't a sin in the Sabbath commandment, that the Pharisees condemned Jesus for breaking, like I said He broke the sabbath of the Pharisees, not the Sabbath of the Lord they God. There are not the same.

So honoring God on a Sunday is equally good.

We should honor God on every day- no one honors God by being disobeident to God's commandments.

God said Sunday was for work and labors, not made to keep holy. That was reserved for the Sabbath Exo 20:8-11

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It as well says to put someone to death for working on the Sabbath.

Under the theocracy, which we are not in. Just like we don't kill people who commit adultery now. Judgement is the last day by Jesus 2 Cor 5:10

Can't honor the Sabbath without including the possibility that some will have to be slain

So does that mean we start killing people who commit adultery that also came with a death sentence under the theocracy? We are no longer under the theocracy, Judgement is now on the last day that we all have to stand before Jesus

That holds true today if you honor the Sabbath on Saturday and demand it of others.

I don't demand anything I did not write the Sabbath commandment- God did. We all have to answer to Him. Jesus told us to teach each other the commandments Mat 5:19 all I can do is share and pray one would consider what God said.

Take care.

 

[BeyondET]

What wasn't a mad-made rule. You said Jesus broke the sabbath- what did He break in the Sabbath commandment?

What was about? You didn't quote any scripture so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

This was when there was a theocracy. We are no longer under a theocracy, Judgement now is the last day.

Breaking God's law is still a sin 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 , that still carries the death penalty Rom 6:23 Mat 7:23 but if we are in Christ we would die to our sins and be reborn in Him Rom 6:1-4 Those in Christ keep His commandments through love and faith Rom 3:31 Rev 14:12 1 John 5:3

Yes, a good example of what wasn't a sin in the Sabbath commandment, that the Pharisees condemned Jesus for breaking, like I said He broke the sabbath of the Pharisees, not the Sabbath of the Lord they God. There are not the same.

We should honor God on every day- no one honors God by being disobeident to God's commandments.

God said Sunday was for work and labors, not made to keep holy. That was reserved for the Sabbath Exo 20:8-11

Yes you are right, He didn't break the law but challenged the Pharisees.

Jesus became the Sabbath, so if folks honor Jesus at Sunday services they are keeping the Sabbath.

 

[BeyondET]

Under the theocracy, which we are not in. Just like we don't kill people who commit adultery now. Judgement is the last day by Jesus 2 Cor 5:10

So does that mean we start killing people who commit adultery that also came with a death sentence under the theocracy? We are no longer under the theocracy, Judgement is now on the last day that we all have to stand before Jesus

I don't demand anything I did not write the Sabbath commandment- God did. We all have to answer to Him. Jesus told us to teach each other the commandments Mat 5:19 all I can do is share and pray one would consider what God said.

Take care.

Yes that's what I was looking for you nailed it. Honor God on a Saturday is no different than what you just said. No longer under theocracy.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Why was I included in your conversation with another poster?

Can you answer my question?

sorry something happened there, but I will answer your question according to scripture.

Of course you know about the 10 commandments, a specific day was selected for a reason, the fourth commandment does not say choose a day during the week to keep the sabbath, it says to keep the sabbath on the last day of the week. Saturday the day chosen is very specific and mirrors GOD's rest after creation, the lord said;

“And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.” Genesis 2:2-3 (KJV)

Are we not made in GOD's Image? Would our father in heaven also want for us to rest and do as he does?

In reality you can do both, keep the sabbath as intended by GOD and also worship on Sunday is you so wish but one cannot change the day that was set by GOD himself. Remember the 10 commandments were written by the finger of GOD on tablets of stone. Stone is permanent!

Who had the authority to change the commandments? NO ONE! here are some verses to demonstrate;

Deuteronomy 4:2 says, "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."

Deuteronomy 12:32 warns, "What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it."

Psalm 119:89 proclaims, "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven."

Psalm 119:160 adds, "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."

Lastly, Proverbs 30:5-6 notes, "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

These passages collectively affirm that God's commandments are eternal, unchanging, and should not be altered by anyone.

Also GOD does not change!:

Numbers 23:19: “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”

Malachi 3:6. (KJV), “For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.”

The Lord would certainly not change the 10 commandments also called the Moral law.

Blessings.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus became the Sabbath,

Jesus never became a day, the commandment or the creation. This is a popular teaching, but its really a sad teaching and has no reality in scriptures.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath- the Creator Mat 2:28 Jesus is not the Sabbath,

The Sabbath is something man does- at least according to Christ of the Bible- Jesus never gave Himself a commandment - He is God, we are not.


We are told to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat 4:4

God said:.

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.


Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

so if folks honor Jesus at Sunday services they are keeping the Sabbath.

Not according to God. Exo 20:10 The Sabbath is the seventh day. Not a jot or tittle can pass from God's law Mat 5:18 God said He would not alter His Words Psa 89:34. Best to let God be God and us to be His faithful servants.

This is exactly what happened in the garden- what's a tree said Adam and Eve- they could eat from ever tree but one. They listened to the other spirit and its why we are in this whole mess. What's a day. I believe it is less about the day and more about who us our Authority. Do we keep Sabbath based on God's Authority or keep another day based on someone else's authority. Its a choice.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Certainly many and most of them pertain to that time -civil laws, etc about servants, property and so on. There might be still some that are still valid, etc. There are so many to go through. Blood ordinances were certainly nailed to the cross but anything of a moral nature should still certainly be followed as exampled in the 10 commandments. Whether one thinks these laws were just for Israel or not. But I see the general law separate from the actual 10 commandments, yes.
Although I am one of the non SDAs that do try and follow the health food laws. Animals don't change ever time, unclean then is still unclean today, pigs still don't have sweat glands and catfish, etc are still bottom feeders but that's another subject altogether...

Christ makes it simple and states we can hang all the law on loving God with all your heart, soul and mind and loving your neighbor as yourself. I think loving God with all your heart, soul and mind at this point would certainly go beyond one day of the week. I believe we should honor him every day of the week.

But I'm not sure what you're getting at in regards to the Sabbath. Again, we disagree on that. I don't believe one is breaking the 4th commandment but others do when one enters into Christ's rest and doesn't follow the weekly Sabbath.day. I believe entering Christ's rest fulfills that law. But as Paul states let us be persuaded in our own minds.

Back then, it was the law for Israel and everyone could take that day of rest. Now, people have mandatory overtime on Saturdays and Sundays. We have people working just on those days and the list goes on. But we have the freedom in Christ with His rest so one doesn't have to worry about things like that.

Thankfully God is the judge and heart knower.

What you say is quite reasonable I understand what you say and our thinking is quite similar. I have noticed with time that much of the scripture shows what happens to those who disobey the Lord also I understand that we have no reason to disobey in any way. We are GOD's children and he wants what is good for us, should we be like rebellious children? we know better as we age.

Jesus summarized the essence of the commandments in two profound directives. When asked about the greatest commandment, Jesus replied in Matthew 22:37-40 (KJV):

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

In this passage, Jesus emphasizes that the core of the commandments can be expressed through two fundamental principles: loving God with all one’s being and loving one’s neighbour as oneself. These commandments show that love is the foundation upon which all other laws and teachings are built.

Blessings

 

[BeyondET]

Jesus never became a day, the commandment or the creation. This is a popular teaching, but its really a sad teaching and has no reality in scriptures.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath- the Creator Mat 2:28 Jesus is not the Sabbath,

The Sabbath is something man does- at least according to Christ of the Bible- Jesus never gave Himself a commandment - He is God, we are not.


We are told to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat 4:4

God said:.

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.


Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

Not according to God. Exo 20:10 The Sabbath is the seventh day. Not a jot or tittle can pass from God's law Mat 5:18 God said He would not alter His Words Psa 89:34. Best to let God be God and us to be His faithful servants.

This is exactly what happened in the garden- what's a tree said Adam and Eve- they could eat from ever tree but one. They listened to the other spirit and its why we are in this whole mess. What's a day. I believe it is less about the day and more about who us our Authority. Do we keep Sabbath based on God's Authority or keep another day based on someone else's authority. Its a choice.

I'm sorry my friend but you need to leave the one day Saturday behind and enter the rest because it is today not just a day out of seven. Trying to keep Saturday as the rest honor day, you fall right into the same disobedience of the past.

hebrews 4
6 Since, then, it remains for some to enter His rest, and since those who formerly heard the good news did not enter because of their disobedience,

7 God again designated a certain day as “Today,” when a long time later He spoke through David as was just stated: “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.

9 There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

10 For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His.

11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I'm sorry my friend but you need to leave the one day Saturday behind and enter the rest because it is today not just a day out of seven. Trying to keep Saturday as the rest honor day, you fall right into the same disobedience of the past.

hebrews 4
6 Since, then, it remains for some to enter His rest, and since those who formerly heard the good news did not enter because of their disobedience,

7 God again designated a certain day as “Today,” when a long time later He spoke through David as was just stated: “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.”

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.

9 There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

10 For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His.

11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following the same pattern of disobedience.

And none of these scriptures say we don't have to obey God's commandments of that Jesus turned into the 4th commandment.

 

[BeyondET]

And none of these scriptures say we don't have to obey God's commandments of that Jesus turned into the 4th commandment.

Do you believe Jesus created the Sabbath?

And is Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath?

I believe He wants people to enter His rest and not just for a day.