Two Aspects of Salvation (Believers Need to Be Concerned With):

[Bible Highlighter]

Was Peter a saved or lost individual when Jesus called him the devil?

If you were to look at post #522, and #535, the poster appeared to defend the idea that everyone is a sinner by the quoting of Jesus saying that He that is without sin let Him case the first stone as a proof text. Surely one verse directed towards unregenerate Jews that our Lord came up against is not really the best way to determine that idea. One has to be able to also deal with verses that teach what I just brought up in post #534. If not, then one is only looking at a certain set of verses from a slanted view while ignoring other ones.

As for your question: I honestly cannot say because the Scripture is not clear as to Peter’s status with the Lord at this point.
However, I can make a case elsewhere with Scripture in defense of Conditional Salvation. This is really a clear teaching in Scripture, but folks simply refuse to see it for many reasons.

 

[Platte]

If you were to look at post #522, and #535, the poster appeared to defend the idea that everyone is a sinner by the quoting of Jesus saying that He that is without sin let Him case the first stone as a proof text. Surely one verse directed towards unregenerate Jews that our Lord came up against is not really the best way to determine that idea. One has to be able to also deal with verses that teach what I just brought up in post #534. If not, then one is only looking at a certain set of verses from a slanted view while ignoring other ones.

As for your question: I honestly cannot say because the Scripture is not clear as to Peter’s status with the Lord at this point.
However, I can make a case elsewhere with Scripture in defense of Conditional Salvation. This is really a clear teaching in Scripture, but folks simply refuse to see it for many reasons.

Salvation is a free gift from God to anyone who accepts it. Pretty simple.

 

[bbbbbbb]

If you were to look at post #522, and #535, the poster appeared to defend the idea that everyone is a sinner by the quoting of Jesus saying that He that is without sin let Him case the first stone as a proof text. Surely one verse directed towards unregenerate Jews that our Lord came up against is not really the best way to determine that idea. One has to be able to also deal with verses that teach what I just brought up in post #534. If not, then one is only looking at a certain set of verses from a slanted view while ignoring other ones.

As for your question: I honestly cannot say because the Scripture is not clear as to Peter’s status with the Lord at this point.
However, I can make a case elsewhere with Scripture in defense of Conditional Salvation. This is really a clear teaching in Scripture, but folks simply refuse to see it for many reasons.

Actually, as I understand the passage, one would have to conclude that Peter was just as lost as Judas if Jesus actually called him the devil. I doubt that Jesus called the Pharisees what he did because they were saved individuals, because He called them far kinder things (hypocrites). The niggling problem is that Jesus had just proclaimed Peter to be the rock upon which he would build His church. It is highly doubtful that Jesus would call the man upon whom His church would be built, the devil, if, in fact, Peter was not any more saved than Satan himself. Thus, we have a great conundrum, which is exacerbated further by the apparent unwillingness on Jesus' part to call Peter to repentance and to specify exactly what he needed to do to be saved.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Salvation is a free gift from God to anyone who accepts it. Pretty simple.

Quite true. However, if one believes in conditional salvation we have a man who Jesus Himself called the rock upon which He would build His church, abruptly losing his salvation and being called the devil, only to regain salvation subsequently, then lose it again when he denied Jesus three times, but regained it yet again when he cried in repentance. It really makes one's head spin.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Actually, as I understand the passage, one would have to conclude that Peter was just as lost as Judas if Jesus actually called him the devil. I doubt that Jesus called the Pharisees what he did because they were saved individuals, because He called them far kinder things (hypocrites). The niggling problem is that Jesus had just proclaimed Peter to be the rock upon which he would build His church. It is highly doubtful that Jesus would call the man upon whom His church would be built, the devil, if, in fact, Peter was not any more saved than Satan himself. Thus, we have a great conundrum, which is exacerbated further by the apparent unwillingness on Jesus' part to call Peter to repentance and to specify exactly what he needed to do to be saved.

Again, there is not enough evidence to confirm Peter’s status at the point where Jesus calls him Satan. However, we do see Peter deny the Lord three times, and Scripture suggest he repented (cried in tears over it to the Lord), and he was restored back. The Parable of the Prodigal Son teaches that when the prodigal son came home after living it up with prostitutes, he was said by his father that he was dead and he is alive AGAIN. This parable is speaking in spiritual terms. He was dead spiritually when was prodigal and living in sin, and he became alive again spiritually by coming back home and seeking forgiveness with his father.

Side Note:

Hypothetically speaking, if Peter was innocent when he was called Satan by Jesus, this would simply mean that Peter’s mind was being influenced to not act according to God’s will, but that may not necessarily mean he was committing a sin that leads to death. The Bible does also teach that there are sins that do not lead unto death.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Salvation is a free gift from God to anyone who accepts it. Pretty simple.

I believe God's grace is a free gift as Scripture says (Ephesians 2:8). Gifts are received, and then we do works of responsibility to take care of those gifts.

Let me give you an example:

If Rick received a car as a free gift from his dad, does that mean he can run red lights, drive drunk, and hit pedestrians? No. If he were to do that, he would not have his gift for very long. Now, was his car any less a free gift because he had to do works of responsibility in possessing his free gift? No. Did Rick have to work at a job and get a loan to buy this car? No. It was a free gift from his dad.

Here is another example:

If Billy-Bob prayed for a wife for many years and he eventually receive a wife from the Lord and consider her as a gift, then that does not mean Billy-Bob can cheat on her and or not love her and expect for her to stay with him. It is the same with God. Disloyalty to GOD means we do not really love GOD and we just love ourselves more than Him. GOD calls us to obedience to His Word. This was the problem that goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden. But men today want to say that we can break God's commands and they will not die. This was the same lie that the enemy was trying to sell Eve on. The serpent told her that she would not die if she ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Which was a violation of God's command).

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Jesus did not keep calling Peter as Satan.
It was a one time event because of Peter’s action in trying to prevent Jesus in going to the cross.

The point was fairly obvious. Satan and Peter stood in the same shoes

It's a direct picture of the reality of Mark 4:15

All have sin. Romans 3:9

Sin is "of the devil," 1 John 3:8

Pretty elementary stuff here. We all engage the tempter, continually

That's also why we are always "sinners," because there is more than just me or you as individuals, standing here

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

The point is that this was not directed towards saved individuals.

Thought we covered this prior.

Every Word of God is for everyone. Matt 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

We don't get to wipe out any Word of God based on whom it was spoken to

 

[bbbbbbb]

Again, there is not enough evidence to confirm Peter’s status at the point where Jesus calls him Satan. However, we do see Peter deny the Lord three times, and Scripture suggest he repented (cried in tears over it to the Lord), and he was restored back. The Parable of the Prodigal Son teaches that when the prodigal son came home after living it up with prostitutes, he was said by his father that he was dead and he is alive AGAIN. This parable is speaking in spiritual terms. He was dead spiritually when was prodigal and living in sin, and he became alive again spiritually by coming back home and seeking forgiveness with his father.

Side Note:

Hypothetically speaking, if Peter was innocent when he was called Satan by Jesus, this would simply mean that Peter’s mind was being influenced to not act according to God’s will, but that may not necessarily mean he was committing a sin that leads to death. The Bible does also teach that there are sins that do not lead unto death.

Hmmm. If God Himself called me Satan, I rather think that He would know what He was saying and that "Satan" is hardly a title applied to an innocent individual. If Satan himself is an innocent individual, why will he be cast into the lake of fire which burns forever and ever?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hmmm. If God Himself called me Satan, I rather think that He would know what He was saying and that "Satan" is hardly a title applied to an innocent individual. If Satan himself is an innocent individual, why will he be cast into the lake of fire which burns forever and ever?

Again, as I said to you before, this part of Scripture is unclear about Peter’s salvation status. There is a case you can make either way. Again, I don’t think Jesus would say to all his followers they are Satan every every single day. This was clearly a unique situation and event. In any event, there are plenty of other verses I brought forth that teach Conditional Salvation clearly. The Prodigal Son is a really good one. That one is a lot more clear in defending Conditional Salvation. I can clearly defend that because the words themselves are clear on what happened. So we can discuss that if you like. But I know why you wouldn’t want to discuss it. Truth is offensive and everybody wants the easy way out.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thought we covered this prior.

Every Word of God is for everyone. Matt 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

We don't get to wipe out any Word of God based on whom it was spoken to

While all Scripture is profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness, etc. we have to also realize that some things are not directly for us. Example: We are not told to build an Ark. That command was for Noah. After Jesus‘ resurrection, He told His disciples to meet up with Him in Galilee (See: Matthew 28:10). This was not a directive for us. We cannot obey this. We cannot expect to go to Galilee and hope that He will be there. That was for them back in their day. So there are instructions that do not directly apply to us. You may be able to get a secondary meaning of those words, but you cannot literally obey the directive of Jesus to meet Him in Galilee. That was for the disciples to obey and not us. So it does not have anything to do with me wiping away those words. I believe them. They just are words I cannot obey because they were for the disciples.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The point was fairly obvious. Satan and Peter stood in the same shoes

As I stated before, this is not a clear instance of Scripture for Conditional Salvation. I say this because there are sins that do not lead unto death. So even if Peter did temporarily slip under the influence of the devil’s thinking for a moment, it may not be considered the kind of sin that would condemn Peter to the Lake of Fire. In fact, we do not see Peter seeking forgiveness with God or Jesus over this, as well. We can talk about other verses that are clear if you like. I would suggest we talk about the Parable of the Prodigal Son to begin with.

It's a direct picture of the reality of Mark 4:15

Your interpretation on this verse is refuted by the parallel passage in Matthew I shown you.

All have sin. Romans 3:9

Romans 3:9 applies to everyone but when it is talking about the believer it would be in context of their past life (when they were an unbeliever), and not their present day life. You cannot apply the life of the present day life of the believer in living in sin according to Romans 3:9-10, and Romans 3:23. Why? Well, when you read Romans 3:9-10, and Romans 3:23, you also have to apply Romans 3:11. You would have to say that you have no understanding and that you do not seek after God according to verse 11 if you believe verses 9-10 and verse 23 is talking about your current daily present life as a believer (in being a sinner in the active tense). So this is why your interpretation here is just bogus.

Sin is "of the devil," 1 John 3:8

Uh, keep reading. 1 John 3:10 says, “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”

1 John 3:15 says if you do not love your brother, there is no eternal life abiding in you.

Pretty elementary stuff here. We all engage the tempter, continually

That's also why we are always "sinners," because there is more than just me or you as individuals, standing here

2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
So this contradicts your belief system.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Actually, as I understand the passage, one would have to conclude that Peter was just as lost as Judas if Jesus actually called him the devil. I doubt that Jesus called the Pharisees what he did because they were saved individuals, because He called them far kinder things (hypocrites). The niggling problem is that Jesus had just proclaimed Peter to be the rock upon which he would build His church. It is highly doubtful that Jesus would call the man upon whom His church would be built, the devil, if, in fact, Peter was not any more saved than Satan himself. Thus, we have a great conundrum, which is exacerbated further by the apparent unwillingness on Jesus' part to call Peter to repentance and to specify exactly what he needed to do to be saved.

You do not understand the passage because you are defending a sin and still be saved type belief (Which the Bible is clear elsewhere that such a concept is false). Please see Matthew 13:41-42, John 8:34-35, Jude 1:4, Galatians 6:8-9, 1 Timothy 5:8, 1 John 3:10, Romans 2:5-11, and John 5:29.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Again, as I said to you before, this part of Scripture is unclear about Peter’s salvation status. There is a case you can make either way. Again, I don’t think Jesus would say to all his followers they are Satan every every single day. This was clearly a unique situation and event. In any event, there are plenty of other verses I brought forth that teach Conditional Salvation clearly. The Prodigal Son is a really good one. That one is a lot more clear in defending Conditional Salvation. I can clearly defend that because the words themselves are clear on what happened. So we can discuss that if you like. But I know why you wouldn’t want to discuss it. Truth is offensive and everybody wants the easy way out.

I am always pleased to meet people who are able to read my mind. It is absolutely true. I want the easy way out. The hard way is to work myself to death in the vain hope that I can earn my salvation. The easy way is to trust the One who paid for my sins by His death on the cross.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am always pleased to meet people who are able to read my mind. It is absolutely true. I want the easy way out. The hard way is to work myself to death in the vain hope that I can earn my salvation. The easy way is to trust the One who paid for my sins by His death on the cross.

Jesus says, “Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” (Luke 13:24).

Strait means narrow.
Are you striving to enter the narrow gate or way?
If you are striving, does that not sound like it is not an easy way and it sounds like a lot of struggling?

1 Peter 4:18-19
18 ”And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of
their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.”

Galatians 6:8-9
8 ”For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;
but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am always pleased to meet people who are able to read my mind. It is absolutely true. I want the easy way out. The hard way is to work myself to death in the vain hope that I can earn my salvation. The easy way is to trust the One who paid for my sins by His death on the cross.

I prefer the truth over my own path or way.
The Bible gives us the truth about God. it says things that I must accept even if I do not like what it says at times.
I accept all of the Bible by faith. I accept both the good parts I like and the no so good parts I don’t like.
It’s all true and must be placed into my heart to the glory of Jesus Christ (Who is God).
Why? Well, it’s better to live in truth than to believe a lie to my own downfall.
It’s like the Leftist machine. They promote lies even if it is at the cost of this country going downhill.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Jesus says, “Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” (Luke 13:24).

Strait means narrow.
Are you striving to enter the narrow gate or way?
If you are striving, does that not sound like it is not an easy way and it sounds like a lot of struggling?

1 Peter 4:18-19
18 ”And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of
their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.”

Galatians 6:8-9
8 ”For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;
but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”

Psalm 46:
10 “Cease striving and know that I am God;
I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.”
11 The Lord of hosts is with us;
The God of Jacob is our stronghold. Selah.

 

[Platte]

I believe God's grace is a free gift as Scripture says (Ephesians 2:8). Gifts are received, and then we do works of responsibility to take care of those gifts.

Let me give you an example:

If Rick received a car as a free gift from his dad, does that mean he can run red lights, drive drunk, and hit pedestrians? No. If he were to do that, he would not have his gift for very long. Now, was his car any less a free gift because he had to do works of responsibility in possessing his free gift? No. Did Rick have to work at a job and get a loan to buy this car? No. It was a free gift from his dad.

Here is another example:

If Billy-Bob prayed for a wife for many years and he eventually receive a wife from the Lord and consider her as a gift, then that does not mean Billy-Bob can cheat on her and or not love her and expect for her to stay with him. It is the same with God. Disloyalty to GOD means we do not really love GOD and we just love ourselves more than Him. GOD calls us to obedience to His Word. This was the problem that goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden. But men today want to say that we can break God's commands and they will not die. This was the same lie that the enemy was trying to sell Eve on. The serpent told her that she would not die if she ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Which was a violation of God's command).

Conflating 2 different things adds to the confusion (and acceptance) of Salvation.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Conflating 2 different things adds to the confusion (and acceptance) of Salvation.

I like Lutheran theology with its clear distinction between Law and Grace.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

While all Scripture is profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness, etc. we have to also realize that some things are not directly for us. Example: We are not told to build an Ark.

And Jesus wasn't a temple made out of stone, but He was a temple and a Chief corner stone.

Get the picture?

IF man shall live by every Word of God per the Word of God, this requires the Word to be understood allegorically or in comparative fashions, even though it was first presented in the natural or empirical environment. God speaks in the natural and there is the spiritual within it. Paul taught this principle in 1 Cor 15:42-46

Luke 8:11
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.