Mariolatry?

[d taylor]

You said earlier that Mary gave birth to Jesus's human nature but not His divine nature. If Jesus, the person, is fully God and fully man, then that's impossible. Mary gave birth to the person Jesus Christ, God the Son, Who is fully God and fully man.

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What i meant by that was, that Jesus did not get His divine nature from Mary. The Holy Spirit came upon Mary giving Mary the Seed for which she would give birth to. This Seed was not from Mary The Seed was given to Mary from God The Holy Spirit. She gave birth to a baby that was fully God and fully man.

And Mary was still a virgin after Jesus' birth. So not until after Jesus was born did Joseph and did not know her till she had brought forth her first born Son.

 

[BeyondET]

She was only a vessel to bring the Son into the world, hence a surrogate. She agreed to the childbirth from another.

The discarded lining of the uterus of the vessel. The dirt of the second Adam.

 

[jas3]

What i meant by that was, that Jesus did not get His divine nature from Mary.

That is true.

The Holy Spirit came upon Mary giving Mary the Seed for which she would give birth to. This Seed was not from Mary The Seed was given to Mary from God The Holy Spirit.

This would seem to invalidate the typology of the Incarnation: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel" (Gen. 3:15). Also, in the Nicene Creed, we profess that Jesus "was incarnate of the Virgin Mary," meaning that He took His flesh from her.

She gave birth to a baby that was fully God and fully man.

Yes, and therefore she gave birth to God, and therefore she is the mother of God.

 

[ARBITER01]

Yes, and therefore she gave birth to God, and therefore she is the mother of God.

Untrue.

Scripture is clear, she had to agree to the childbirth from another first instead of her husband she was pledged to, hence a surrogate.

 

[Jipsah]

There's no reason for GOD to somehow restore Mary's virginity after childbirth.

I'm sorry, what? There was no need to restore her virginity, because she was still a virgin.

It's just a denominational lie.

I.E.. Evangelical Protestants (hereinafter, EPs) don't believe it. So?

 

[Jipsah]

So why not just say,

"The belief that Mary remained perpetually virgin" is a teaching that my church and some other churches I know teach.

Well, the trick is that the vast majority of the world's Christians do believe in the perpetual virginity of the BVM. EPs are the outliers. So it would be more appropriate for y'all to say "we don't believe as most Christians do because we don't think there sufficient evidence." Just a nod to the facts of the matter.

I know there is no explicit scripture backing for that belief, but it is something I choose to believe in"?

Works for your position too, doesn't it?

 

[d taylor]

This would seem to invalidate the typology of the Incarnation: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel" (Gen. 3:15). Also, in the Nicene Creed, we profess that Jesus "was incarnate of the Virgin Mary," meaning that He took His flesh from her.

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If this was solely from Mary, why did the Holy Spirit come upon her.

 

[ARBITER01]

The discarded lining of the uterus of the vessel. The dirt of the second Adam.

The body was the sin offering to The Father, then glorified as our bodies shall be.

 

[Jipsah]

Yes, those "ancient churches" that you have in mind can all be classified under "some other churches I know".

Those "some other churches" representing the vast majority of the world's Christians.

 

[Jipsah]

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I know one thing, you think you know more than what I do, about what i believe.

We only know what you've said.

People who put tradition above The Bible sure have high opinions of themselves and their beliefs

The Bible itself is a product of Holy Tradition. No escaping that. The Muslims believe that the angel Gabriel dictated the Koran word for word to Mohammed. We Christians believe no such thing of the Bible. We know that it is the compilation of writings over the centuries that the Church has accepted as the Word of God, and we accept that those writings are in fact the Word of God as a matter of Holy Tradition. Like that or lump it, it is a fact. God didn't give us a list; you accept the Bible as a matter of tradition or not at all.

 

[d taylor]

That is true.

This would seem to invalidate the typology of the Incarnation: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel" (Gen. 3:15). Also, in the Nicene Creed, we profess that Jesus "was incarnate of the Virgin Mary," meaning that He took His flesh from her.

Yes, and therefore she gave birth to God, and therefore she is the mother of God.

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Where do women get their seed to give birth to their children. Do these seeds not come from God, they are not divine but still God is the originator of life.

 

[Jipsah]

So there is nothing in that passage to indicate that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus.

Or that she did not. That is a matter of Protestant Tradition, elevated to the status of dogma.

 

[d taylor]

We only know what you've said.

The Bible itself is a product of Holy Tradition. No escaping that. The Muslims believe that the angel Gabriel dictated the Koran word for word to Mohammed. We Christians believe no such thing of the Bible. We know that it is the compilation of writings over the centuries that the Church has accepted as the Word of God, and we accept that those writings are in fact the Word of God as a matter of Holy Tradition. Like that or lump it, it is a fact. God didn't give us a list; you accept the Bible as a matter of tradition or not at all.

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I have noting else to say to you, so you can quote my post for the rest of your life. This will be the last reply you get from me.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Do you think it is possible that because many Protestants have no experience of the depth of liturgical worship, they conflate prayer with worship?

Also, where did you get that the disciples were told not to listen to Moses and Elijah on Mt Tabor?

I think the issue may have something to do with the fact that: protestants begin with scripture and compare scripture with scripture .. then reject any old traditions that seem to be contrary to scripture as "commandments of men"

For both questions.

 

[Jipsah]

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So in the context of Mary is the mother of God, define the word God.

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Any questions?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Regarding the subject name Mariolatry, thought it was about those Mario games - though they were never really that addictive.

But if it's about Mary, I see that Mary is the Mother of Jesus, but not the Mother of the Father or the Holy Spirit .. so this doctrine kind of needs to be quarantined so Trinity can make sense. That is, unless the ancient church actually treats Mary as God .. but that's impossible.

 

[Jipsah]

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Did mary give birth to The Son of God.

Is Jesus God?

 

[Jipsah]

She gave birth to the Son of God who is God.
She did not give birth to the Father who is God.
She did not give birth to the Holy Spirit who is God.

Is it really that hard for you to understand?
For nearly 2000 years there has been absolutely no confusion amongst Christians as to the meaning of "Mother of God" regarding who it was Mary gave birth to. It is only a small portion of Western Christians who now cannot seem to wrap their heads around it.

That, IMO, is why GP American Protestants so strenuously object to call the BVM the Mother of God. They tend to see the Trinity in modalist and/or Nestorian terms. I've heard it in too many Sunday School "explanations" of the Trinity in (mostly Baptist) churches.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Also, when I read stuff like this, I know that there's a definite cover up. Even if it can be argued that some people do not elevate Mary to the status of God in the ancient traditions, it's obvious there is a cult following that does.

“This is Mary’s hour and She is about to crush Satan’s head. Her very being is like incandescent heat in the center of the Trinity and the manifestation of Her power is growing daily. The Immaculate Conception prayer (which is what Our Lady called the prayer she gave me for union with Her) has been used by exorcists who have told me that the devil reacts violently to it and is subdued by it. We are praying daily for the success of Mary TV!“

 

[Jipsah]

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Did mary give birth to The Son of God.

Who is God. Not part of God,not a "god-man" not "a form of deity". Read John 1:1-14 and pay attention to what it says! Our Lord isn't part of God, He's God!