Message for muslim Allah

[peter2]

It's not "maybe" -- it definitely is. I am a member of a Church that has officially used Arabic in its services since 12th century. "Allah" is the Arabic equivalent of "God" in English, "Dios" in Spanish, "Gott" in German, etc. The issue is not the word, but the Islam-specific theology that Muslims have wrapped up in that word. They treat it like a proper name (like "Bob", or "Jane" or whatever) when it isn't, because their holy book tells them to. We don't do that, of course.

Thank you. i didn't know that

The Islamic Allah is Muhammad's recension of God, based on what he (Muhammad) could accept, combined with his own pagan background and garbled versions of Christianity and Judaism that were popular in Arabia at his time. Obviously, then, the Islamic Allah does not exist

i'm glad for you you already found obvious his inexistence.

so it does not really 'mean' anything that nothing happens after you post this

As for my life, i confess i stood nevertheless in the delusion something might have happen, even though i believed it very hypothetical. It was silly, i agree

 

[peter2]

It's true that love for one's enemy isn't as pronounced in Islam, but it is there.

Thank you for those verses.
It's true these verses display grandeur where souls can grow, so as to surpass the easy inclination man has to obey the Talion Law, which Law Jesus perfectly accomplished, without bloodshed.
i don't perceive any ambiguity for their interpretation.

 

[dzheremi]

Thank you. i didn't know that

Yes. This was actually the basis of a lawsuit in Malaysia a few years ago, where it was decided that, legally, the word "Allah" is a proper name belonging to the Islamic God only, and hence cannot be used by those of other religions in that country to refer to God.

 

[peter2]

Yes. This was actually the basis of a lawsuit in Malaysia a few years ago, where it was decided that, legally, the word "Allah" is a proper name belonging to the Islamic God only, and hence cannot be used by those of other religions in that country to refer to God.

Salvation (christian one, obviously) seems to be more expensive (as regards serenity) in Malaysia than in many other countries..

 

[Gene2memE]

Yes. This was actually the basis of a lawsuit in Malaysia a few years ago, where it was decided that, legally, the word "Allah" is a proper name belonging to the Islamic God only, and hence cannot be used by those of other religions in that country to refer to God.

That was specific only to Malaysia, and the decision/legal statute has been subsequently overturned in the Malaysian courts.

From your own link, this is not the case in the rest of the Islamic world: "In the Islamic tradition, insofar as Allah is simply the Arabic word for God, Allah too is a common noun, not a proper noun. But that is not so in Malaysia, after the case of the Titular Roman Catholic Archbishop of Kuala Lumpur v Home Minister."

The 2021 Malaysian case notes "the Christian community of Sabah and Sarawak have been using the word “Allah” in Bahasa Malaysia for the word of God for more than 400 years in the profession and practice of their Christian faith".

 

[dzheremi]

That was specific only to Malaysia, and the decision/legal statute has been subsequently overturned in the Malaysian courts.

Of course it was specific to Malaysia; it's a Malaysian case. The general question of "Allah"'s status as a proper noun in Islam in particular, however, is better answered by Muslims than by non-Muslim writers about a court case, and here is a small sampling of what they say:

Allah, the unique name of God (muslim.org)
Allah: the unique name of God in Islam (whyislam.org)
Why do Muslims say Allah instead of God (aboutislam.net; quote: "Muslims prefer to call God by His proper name Allah.")
What does the word "Allah" mean? (alislam.org/official Ahmadiyya website; quote: "Allah is the personal name of God.")
The names of God (islamreligion.com; quote: "Muslims believe in the One Unique, Merciful God, the sole Creator and Sustainer of the Universe and they call him by His revealed Name – Allah.")
Who is Allah (islamweb.net; quote: "Allah is the proper name of the One True God.")

It should of course be noted that not all Muslims necessarily treat it as a proper name in exclusive sense (e.g., the people over at submission.org have a pretty interesting article about this), but even when they buck the general trend, they still do recognize it as a proper noun, rather than a common noun (as the submission.org article also does). This is a minority opinion, anyway, as there are Qur'anic reasons why the opinion that it is a proper name has come to dominate this discussion (e.g., popular interpretations of the command to "say that he is Allah" in Surah 112) to the point that it is considered questionable to use any other word, even when speaking or writing in English.

From your own link, this is not the case in the rest of the Islamic world: "In the Islamic tradition, insofar as Allah is simply the Arabic word for God, Allah too is a common noun, not a proper noun.

I don't think you're reading this part properly. The key is "insofar as Allah is simply the Arabic word for God" -- no Muslim denies that this is the case, so insofar as it can be used that way (e.g., by Arabic-speaking Christians, Jews, and other non-Muslims), it is also a common noun. That does not change the fact that Islam-specific theology is wrapped up in Muslims' specific use of it as a proper name, in conformity with their theology that is not shared by these other Arabic-speaking religious groups (hence why we don't think of it as a proper name in the first place). The Malaysian situation is just particularly interesting/stupid, because in that part of the world, "Allah" is a loanword regardless of which community is using it, so it lays bare the Islamic theological claims behind its use in a way that is not possible to do when looking at natively Arabic-speaking people in the Middle East and North Africa, where they share the same word natively regardless of community.

 

[Red Gold]

Isn't 'Allah' the Arabic name for God? Arabic speaking Christians use it.

so is it!

 

[RileyG]

God will never kill. I know that France is going through some rough times right now, with a loss of Christian faith across the country, but you need to live, my brother from France. Spread the Gospel, and help bring the world back to Christ.

Amen.

 

[Aaron112]

Christians, Jews and Muslims worship the same God

Find out soon that this lie is actively destroying billions of souls today, and destroying families also, for many generations.

 

[AlexB23]

Find out soon that this lie is actively destroying billions of souls today, and destroying families also, for many generations.

Regardless, Muslims and Jews need to approach God through His Son (become Christians). Approaching God any other way is blasphemy. I will not force Christianity onto them though.

 

[RileyG]

Regardless, Muslims and Jews need to approach God through His Son (become Christians). Approaching God any other way is blasphemy. I will not force Christianity onto them though.

God respects our free will which is why hell exists.

 

[AlexB23]

God respects our free will which is why hell exists.

Agreed, that is why hell exists.

 

[peter2]

Find out soon that this lie is actively destroying billions of souls today, and destroying families also, for many generations.

I don't know wether it's a lie or an error, but i agree it's damaging much

 

[Robban]

Find out soon that this lie is actively destroying billions of souls today, and destroying families also, for many generations.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.............

and the spirit of God hovered over the waters.........

(The spirit of God hovered - this is the spirit of Moshiach - Midrash Rabbah)

A statement that appears in the early editions of Ramban which the censurs did not manage to lay hands on:

"Al lthose words of Yeshua of Nazareth and of that Ismaelite who rose after him will only serve to pave the way for the coming of the

King Mashiach and for the improvment of the entire world.

(Motivating the nations) to serve God together as is written " - Zephaniah 3:9

 

[peter2]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.............

and the spirit of God hovered over the waters.........

(The spirit of God hovered - this is the spirit of Moshiach - Midrash Rabbah)

A statement that appears in the early editions of Ramban which the censurs did not manage to lay hands on:

"Al lthose words of Yeshua of Nazareth and of that Ismaelite who rose after him will only serve to pave the way for the coming of the

King Mashiach and for the improvment of the entire world.

(Motivating the nations) to serve God together as is written " - Zephaniah 3:9

Hello Robban.

As for christianism and islam, it all looks like to me as it would have been between an old Egypt god Râ believer and a Moon worshipper :

Indeed, only the first produces enough heat and light for life on Earth.
Yet the Moon woshipper would have believed light and heat originate in the Moon while asserting Râ and the Moon are actually the same star (or satellite), with a gift for ubiquity and a talent for warming, enlightening or, respectively, not warming and not enlightening the solar System.

That's why i'd rather learn from butterflies, whose teaching is sensible :
Butterflies are not deceived : the diurnal ones live on day, and the nocturnal ones rather fly on evening and night, or next to floor lamps.

And no butterfly lives both day and night. it's one or the other

 

[Robban]

Hello Robban.

As for christianism and islam, it all looks like to me as it would have been between an old Egypt god Râ believer and a Moon worshipper :

Indeed, only the first produces enough heat and light for life on Earth.
Yet the Moon woshipper would have believed light and heat originate in the Moon while asserting Râ and the Moon are actually the same star (or satellite), with a gift for ubiquity and a talent for warming, enlightening or, respectively, not warming and not enlightening the solar System.

That's why i'd rather learn from butterflies, whose teaching is sensible :
Butterflies are not deceived : the diurnal ones live on day, and the nocturnal ones rather fly on evening and night, or next to floor lamps.

And no butterfly lives both day and night. it's one or the other

Well, it was as you say, two main idols or gods, sun and moon.

Abraham who was born among idolworshippers, his father had an idol shop.

But young Abraham felt uneasy about whole idea, so he tested them.

He sat on the hillside and watched the sun rise and sunset, likwise with the moon.

Then as the first ever he stood up and told them they were all wrong,

he asked them , where did their god go after sunset and where did the moon go in the daytime.

From then on then on he preached there is only one God, and there is nowhere he is not.

As the Rebbe would say,


"God is not a construct of the Human mind,

God is not an idea,

God is the reality in which we stand."

 

[peter2]

Well, it was as you say, two main idols or gods, sun and moon.

Abraham who was born among idolworshippers, his father had an idol shop.

But young Abraham felt uneasy about whole idea, so he tested them.

He sat on the hillside and watched the sun rise and sunset, likwise with the moon.

Then as the first ever he stood up and told them they were all wrong,

he asked them , where did their god go after sunset and where did the moon go in the daytime.

From then on then on he preached there is only one God, and there is nowhere he is not.

As the Rebbe would say,


"God is not a construct of the Human mind,

God is not an idea,

God is the reality in which we stand."

I was actually less discussing about the realities of beliefs than about Truth.

For, nocturnal butterflies don't deny this plain truth only the sun produces heat and light, and that sun and moon are 2 different stars.

It was just a metaphoric way to give back christianism what is his, and respectively, to islam what is islam's (Lc 20, 25), in my view

 

[GentleGospeller]

Do you believe that Arab Christians are in error when they call God "Allah?"

Yes. It's also a non-sequitur, and irrelevant in discussion of the ilah of Islam in contrast to the elohiym of scripture.

 

[GentleGospeller]

Earlier in this thread I mentioned how a Muslim will be worshiping the God of the Bible because their holy book, the Qur'an, instructs them to worship the God of Abraham. If Muslims aren't worshiping the one true God of Abraham, then who/what are they worshiping?

satan. the 'ilah (god) of this world'

 

[GentleGospeller]

What about Bibles in Southeast Asia that use the word "Allah" rather than God?

Translated by ecumenically inclined catholics, of whom originated islam. They are tied at the top.

They are tied theologically, practically.


Comparison:


Romanism
&
Islamism


[1]
Romanism - Must be read in the offiically recognized Latin
Islamism - Must be read in the offiically recognized Arabic

[2]
Romanism - Main Country is Italy, a Peninsula facing to the West
Islamism - Main Country is Arabia, a Peninsula facing to the East

[3]
Romanism - Sunday worship, first day of the week
Islamism - Friday worship, sixth day of the week - Al Jumu'ah 62:9-10

[JEHOVAH's is the Holy 7th day the Sabbath of the LORD Jesus, Exodus 20:8-11 KJB]

[4]
Romanism - Sun/moon monstrance in which the 'eucharist/host' is kept
Islamism - Moon/Sun/or star symbol

[5]
Romanism - 8 pointed star being a symbol of RC 'Mary'
Islamism - 8 pointed star in Islam

[6]
Romanism - Jerome's corrupted Vulgate [corrupted the true vulgate, the Italic], corrupted Sinaiticus, Vaticanus
Islamism - Abu al Qasim's corrupted qur'an [corrupted with gnostic, talmudic, sources, etc]

[7]
Romanism - Creeds, so-called 'church fathers', papal bulls, encyclicals, briefs, etc.
Islamism - aHadiths, Sunnah, Tafsirs, Sharia [Islamic laws]

[8]
Romanism - [Roman] Canon Law [natural law]
Islamism - Sharia [Islamic law]

[JEHOVAH's Ten Commandments, Exodus 20:1-17 KJB]

[9]
Romanism - a combined Religion/State power
Islamism - a combined State/Religion power

[the state and church are to be in their respective spheres, see Romans 13]

[10]
Romanism - RC 'Mary' highly exalted to co-Mediatrix, hyper-dulia, etc and Immaculate conception dogma
Islamism - Islamic 'Mary', see qur'an Maryam 19, and aHadith in which 'Mary' is 'not touched by satan'

[11]
Romanism - gnostic connections, Shepherd of Hermas, Thomasine, Judasine, etc
Islamism - gnostic connections, Barnabas, etc. baby 'Isa' speaks from under the womb, and cradle, and makes clay birds come to life, etc

[12]
Romanism - continuing 'Mass', the unbloody sacrifice
Islamism - continuing bloody animal sacrifices

[13]
Romanism - no victory over sin, the Auricular confessional, penances, etc [works salvation, fasting, rosaries, etc]
Islamism - no victory over sin, works salvation, the as-salat, wudu, fasting, pilgrimaages, etc

[14]
Romanism - War - Crusades, Inquisition - aka Office/Curia of Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
Islamism - War - Jihad, a qur'an Al Tawbah or Bara'ah 9:5,29, etc

[15]
Romanism - Vatican, Ultramontanism, all power in one man, popery
Islamism - Caliphate, all power in one man, Mahdi, etc. a qur'an Al Nisa' 4:65, Al Ahzab 33:36

[16]
Romanism - Pope's sayings, councils sayings, traditions of men
Islamism - Muhammad's sayings [aHadith], traditions of men

[17]
Romanism - another Intercessor, RC 'Mary', the co-Mediatrix, co-Redemptrix, Popes, Priests, 'Saints', etc
Islamism - Abu al Qasim

[18]
Romanism - Important women, RC 'Mary', 'Fatima' [city, so-called miracle site]
Islamism - Important women, Islamic 'Mary', Maraym 19, Fatimah the daughter of Abu al Qasim [Muhammad]

[19]
Romanism - monkery, monasticism, etc
Islamism - Khadija, Waraq bin Naufal, Nestor [Baeira, Pakhyras, Sergius the monk] see Hayatu'l-Qulub' by Abu Talib, or Al-Asbahani, Dala'il al-Nubuwah 1:173, or see the Jami' al-Tawarikh by Rashid al-Din Hamadani published in Tabriz, Persia, or see Ibn Hisham, Ibn Sa'd al-Baghdadi, or Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, or even just plain old Yusuf Ali notations on Baeira.

[20]
Romanism - Pilgrimmages to Fatima, Lourdes, Vatican, Guadalupe, etc
Islamism - Pilgrimmages, the greater and lesser hajj to Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem, Ka'baa, etc.

[21]
Romanism - state of the dead - immortal soul/spirit theology, same as pagans, occult
Islamism - state of the dead - immortal soul/spirit theology, same as pagans, occult

[22]
Romanism - purgatory, limbo, etc
Islamism - Barzakh, a waiting place on the other side of the as-sirat bridge, until judgment day

[23]
Romanism - Eternal torments in hellfire/lake of fire, a never-ending, always increasing torment
Islamism - Eternal torments [especially for women, as they are the ones to fill hell mostly] in a hellfire/lake of fire, always increasing, never-ending, in Islam there are 7 levels of Hell [Jahannam; Jahim, Jahannam, Sa'ir, Saqar, Ladha, Hawiyah, Hutamah]

[Bible [KJB] teaches 2nd death, oblivion, dead and gone forever, no life, burnt up into smoke and ashes in the flames on earth before being made new, see Revelation 20, etc]

[24]
Romanism - Nuns/Habits/Monks/Cloistered
Islamism - Hijab, Burkha, women cannot work, must stay in the house in a single room [a few exceptions], etc.

[25]
Romanism - special exorcists
Islamism - special exorcists, called the ruqyah; al-Tibb al-Nabawi

[26]
Romanism - beads, 'the Rosary', the vain repetitious prayers, also monk chants, breath prayers, desert 'fathers' mysticism, etc, to deaden the mind, allowing more access to the voice of satan:
"...as though they were listening to the very voice of the Blessed Mother explaining the mysteries and conversing with them at length..." [ON THE ROSARY; MAGNAE DEI MATRIS; Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII promulgated on September 8, 1892.]
Islamism - beads, the Misbah, Tasbih, Sibha, having the same effect to deaden the mind, allowing more access to the voice of satan

[27]
Romanism - Cantor, Intonation, Gregorian Chants
Islamism - Muslim chants, qur'anic intonation [which means recitation]

[28]
Romanism - earthly sanctuary at the Vatican, the Mass in Rome
Islamism - earthly sanctuary, the Ka'baa in Mecca

[29]
Romanism - Indulgences, forgiveness of sins, kiising pope's feet, etc
Islamism - sins forgiven by 'good' [meaning Islamic] deeds, which wipe out 'bad' [means Islamic] deeds, kissing the idolatrous black stone inside the Yoni corner.

[30]
Romanism - Washings for the Mass, with specifications, etc
Islamism - Wudu, religious washings, with specifications, etc

[31]
Romanism - claim earthly Jerusalem [a forever desolate city] for Catholicism
Islamism - claim earthly Jerusalem [a forever desolate city] for Islamism

[JEHOVAH's eternal city, the New Jerusalem is above, Galatians 4:26 KJB, coming down from Heaven, Revelation 21:2, for here we have no continuing city, Hebrews 13:14 KJB]

[32]
Romanism - Captial - Rome, the self-styled and so-called 'eternal city'
Islamism - Captial - Mecca

[JEHOVAH's eternal city, the New Jerusalem is above, Galatians 4:26 KJB, coming down from Heaven, Revelation 21:2, for here we have no continuing city, Hebrews 13:14 KJB]

[33]
Romanism - false understanding of angels, Michael, Gabriel and other numerous named angels in their sources, sandalfon, metatron, salthiel, saraquel, raphael, etc.
Islamism - false understanding of angels, Michael, Gabriel and other numerous named angels in their sources, Israfel, etc.

[34]
Romanism - Visionaries - Ignatius Loyola, etc [in a Cave, seeing a serpent with many eyes, colours, with knowledge of good and evil]
Islamism - Visionaries - Abu al Qasim [in a Cave, Hira]

[35]
Romanism - private killer assassins, political rebellion creators, the Jesuits, Dominicans, Opus Dei, etc
Islamism - Hashashins [assassins]

[36]
Romanism - Religious Calendar - Lent, Easter, etc, etc.
Islamism - Religious Calendar - Ramadan, etc, etc.

[37]
Romanism - pagan practices accepted or taken over and 'baptized', all-saints day, equinoxes, etc
Islamism - pagan practices, circling the Ka'baa, throwing stones at the shaytan, etc.

[38]
Romanism - unscriptural food and drink allowances and forbidances [Leviticus 11; Deuteronomy 14; Acts 15; 1 Timothy 4:3 KJB]
Islamism - unscriptural food and drink allowances and forbidances, under Abu al Qasim's Halal and Haram [and Makrooh]

[39]
Romanism - etc. add your own
Islamism - etc. add your own

The two are mirrored of each other, a yin and yang, a so-called 'light' and 'dark', both in great error, yet the one [Islam] came out of the other, an attempt at an early eccumenical [Mecci] endeavor, that failed [Medini]. Khadijah, was catholic, as was her cousin, Waraqua, and the monk Sergius, etc.

Khadija d. Khuwaylid and [her cousin] Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza and [see also [Nestor [a 'Jewish monk'][see Hayatu'l-Qulub' by Abu Talib, Muhammad's Uncle [called Nasaranee]], or see [Al-Asbahani, Dala'il al-Nubuwah 1:173] or aka 9th cent. by Byzantines Baeira or Pakhyras] Bahira [see miniature illustration on vellum of Jami' al-Tawarikh, by Rashid al-Din Hamadani, published in Tabriz, Persia AD 1307], aka Sergius the Monk [called so by Abd-al-Masih al-Kindi]], an Arian [called so by John of Damascus] [or Iconoclast [breaker of images]] Arab Nestorian, or Gnostic Nasorean [see Ibn Hisham, Ibn Sa'd al-Baghdadi, or Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari] or "Jacobite" [Syrian Orthodox Church] member

94. If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed
unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the
Book from before thee: (1475) the Truth hath indeed
come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those
in doubt.(1476)

1475 Allah's Truth is all one, and even in different forms men sincere in Religion
recognise the oneness. So sincere Jews like 'Abd Allah ibn Salam, and sincere
Christians like Waraqah or the Nestorian monk Bahirah, were ready to recognise
the mission of Muhammad al Mustafa. "The Book" in this connection is
Revelation generally, including pre-Islamic revelations.