Italian Boxer Quits Bout, Sparking Furor Over Gender at Olympics

[ThatRobGuy]

Italian Boxer Quits Bout, Sparking Furor Over Gender at Olympics

The Italian, Angela Carini, stopped fighting only 46 seconds into her matchup against Imane Khelif of Algeria, who had been barred from a women’s event last year.

www.nytimes.com

The Italian, Angela Carini, stopped fighting only 46 seconds into her matchup against Imane Khelif of Algeria, who had been barred from a women’s event last year.

Carini declined to shake Khelif’s hand after her defeat was announced, then fell to her knees in the ring and began to cry.

“I am heartbroken,” she told reporters afterward. “I went to the ring to honor my father. I was told a lot of times that I was a warrior but I preferred to stop for my health. I have never felt a punch like this.”

She added: “I got into the ring to fight. I didn’t give up. But one punch hurt too much and so I said, ‘Enough.’ I’m going out with my head held high.”

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Obligatory post that reminds everybody she is not transgender and was born female. She has a blood disorder which gives her unusually high testosterone levels and she has had it her whole life. She does not want to become confused for or used as the voice or transgender athletes.

Why was Imane Khelif allowed to compete at the Olympics?

A victory against Angela Carini in the women’s welterweight boxing sparked a largely misinformed debate in the sports world.

en.as.com

By all metrics used by people who don’t support transgender ideology and state your born sex organs define your gender, she would be considered female as she was, without dispute, born with female genitalia.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Italian Boxer Quits Bout, Sparking Furor Over Gender at Olympics

The Italian, Angela Carini, stopped fighting only 46 seconds into her matchup against Imane Khelif of Algeria, who had been barred from a women’s event last year.

www.nytimes.com

The Italian, Angela Carini, stopped fighting only 46 seconds into her matchup against Imane Khelif of Algeria, who had been barred from a women’s event last year.

Carini declined to shake Khelif’s hand after her defeat was announced, then fell to her knees in the ring and began to cry.

“I am heartbroken,” she told reporters afterward. “I went to the ring to honor my father. I was told a lot of times that I was a warrior but I preferred to stop for my health. I have never felt a punch like this.”

She added: “I got into the ring to fight. I didn’t give up. But one punch hurt too much and so I said, ‘Enough.’ I’m going out with my head held high.”

C'mon, Angela! Don't bow out now. If Rocky Balboa could take on Ivan Drago, you can take on Imane Khelif ... GET BACK IN THAT RING !!!!

Am I right, ..................... or am I right?!

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Obligatory post that reminds everybody she is not transgender and was born female. She has a blood disorder which gives her unusually high testosterone levels and she has had it her whole life. She does not want to become confused for or used as the voice or transgender athletes.

Why was Imane Khelif allowed to compete at the Olympics?

A victory against Angela Carini in the women’s welterweight boxing sparked a largely misinformed debate in the sports world.

en.as.com

By all metrics used by people who don’t support transgender ideology and state your born sex organs define your gender, she would be considered female as she was, without dispute, born with female genitalia.

Actually, it's more than just a blood disorder... It's a genetic/chromosomal issue. (if the reports are true)

The reason why it's attracting so much attention is because this particular athlete has the same advantages (that would be in the same ballpark) as a transwoman competing against biological females.

If you look at other pics of the athlete in question.

That looks like a male frame, larger hand size, broader shoulders, etc... even just looking at the picture above, that doesn't look like a woman. Which is unfortunate for them if this is just a genetic disorder situation (and to be clear, I don't have any information to suggest that it's not)

In past events, this athlete has been disqualified due to abnormally high testosterone levels.

The defeated Italian Angela Carini was frustrated with the manner of her loss on Thursday and Khelif’s rare disorder does highlight importance of gender eligibility requirements in ensuring a fair, safe competition.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Actually, it's more than just a blood disorder... It's a genetic/chromosomal issue. (if the reports are true)

The reason why it's attracting so much attention is because this particular athlete has the same advantages (that would be in the same ballpark) as a transwoman competing against biological females.

If you look at other pics of the athlete in question.
View attachment 352553
View attachment 352554

That looks like a male frame, larger hand size, broader shoulders, etc... even just looking at the picture above, that doesn't look like a woman. Which is unfortunate for them if this is just a genetic disorder situation (and to be clear, I don't have any information to suggest that it's not)

In past events, this athlete has been disqualified due to abnormally high testosterone levels.

The defeated Italian Angela Carini was frustrated with the manner of her loss on Thursday and Khelif’s rare disorder does highlight importance of gender eligibility requirements in ensuring a fair, safe competition.

It’s a blood disorder, known to and by the Olympic overseers, confirmed and verified.

I don’t see the ambiguity here. Saying she looks manly and that’s enough to make determinations about how she presents herself ignores the simple fact that she is physically female. Just because she looks like a man doesn’t make her a man, as I’ve been repeatedly told.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It’s a blood disorder, known to and by the Olympic overseers, confirmed and verified.

I don’t see the ambiguity here. Saying she looks manly and that’s enough to make determinations about how she presents herself ignores the simple fact that she is physically female. Just because she looks like a man doesn’t make her a man, as I’ve been repeatedly told.

No, it's not just a blood disorder. Anemia and hemophilia are blood disorders. Swyer Syndrome (if that's what she has) is a chromosomal defect that gives her XY chromosomes, and the elevated testosterone levels and the bone structure and density of a male.


That'd be like simply trying to pass off acromegaly as "just a glandular disorder" in the context of fair competition in sporting as if it's "no big deal"

You think the 16 year old in the picture has just a slight advantage (that's extremely abnormal) that may make it a little tough for people to compete against them in a particular form of athletic endeavors?

 

[Niels]

When somebody finds a way to give this disorder to other female athletes, perhaps through consensual administration of a drug or genetic engineering, and recruits them to join their team, they will be unstoppable.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sympathetic for her situation, but I'm also sympathetic for the women she competes against. It's one thing to be a genetically gifted athlete, but this looks reckless to me. Allowing her to compete puts other female athletes in harm's way. More so than usual. If her sport was running, and she simply ran faster than the other women, it would be easier to let slide as a rare natural advantage, but this is boxing. Her opponents in the ring are apt to sustain significantly greater injuries.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[johansen]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[johansen]

I'm not trying to boast here but the average person in developed countries, is i think, is not sufficiently fit and as a result they don't really have a good reality check on the physical differences between men and women. yes on average, men are something like only 40% stronger.. but the average person doesn't work out at all. once you do, the physical strength differences take off.. then level off again because lets face it, all the records are set by genetically gifted people these days.

so back in highschool in 2005, i walked into the gym having never worked out before other than shoveling dirt and building damns as a kid.

weighed 155 pounds but could have met the 150 pound weight class if i tried. i think the next weight class was 165 and the records were significantly higher.

I dead lifted 385 pounds.. something like 12 times, without a weight belt. never tried to actually see what I could do once, was afraid i would hurt myself.. the record was, i think 405 pounds for the 150 weight class.
I could clean 175 pounds.. with no form at all, just bend over like a dead lift, and lift the bar to my shoulders. (due to bad posture, i could never lift much over my head, as those muscles were not developed, and still arent). the record was 185 pounds, set by the same person as the 405 deadlift.
I could hold a 60 pound barbell out at arms length, for like 20 seconds. 50 in my left arm.

I had broke my left tibia in 2001, so when i put 1200 pounds on the leg press, i felt my right tibia bending under the load but not my left. i didn't even feel sore the next day, but i only lifted the 1200 pounds off the stops (which are about half way). 1200 pounds was all i could put on the machine as we only had something like 6x100 pound weights and i had to fill it up with 45's

now take a look at this person in the 190 pound weight class

Shannon Pole-Summers

The OpenPowerlifting project aims to create a permanent, accurate, convenient, accessible, open archive of the world's powerlifting data.

www.openpowerlifting.org

and then read all the records in here

https://rawitalia.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/World-Womens-Powerlifting-Records.pdf

again, I did that with no prior intentional exercise.

i'm not actually genetically gifted. i later found out that i was under immense cortisol stress in my childhood and turns out it suppresses unnecessary metabolism (i was cold all the time, i wore sweat pants under my jeans nearly year round) and promotes muscle growth.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

When somebody finds a way to give this disorder to other female athletes, perhaps through consensual administration of a drug or genetic engineering, and recruits them to join their team, they will be unstoppable.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sympathetic for her situation, but I'm also sympathetic for the women she competes against. It's one thing to be a genetically gifted athlete, but this looks reckless to me. Allowing her to compete puts other female athletes in harm's way. More so than usual. If her sport was running, and she simply ran faster than the other women, it would be easier to let slide as a rare natural advantage, but this is boxing. Her opponents in the ring are apt to sustain significantly greater injuries.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Yeah, it's one of those things where you feel bad for the person impacted (if that condition is indeed what the person in question has and it's not funny business of some sort... I wouldn't be surprised either way)

But certain genetic defects can make it both unfair and dangerous for other competitors.

There's an American professional wrestler (yeah, I know that kind's fake) name Paul Wight (Aka, "The Big Show"). He had a defect that caused him to be 6' 4" and 220 lbs by the time he was twelve years of age. If he joined the elementary school football league in 6th grade, it's not unreasonable for parents of other children to have some concerns about their kid's safety and physical well-being if they were out on the field with him.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I'm not trying to boast here but the average person in developed countries, is i think, is not sufficiently fit and as a result they don't really have a good reality check on the physical differences between men and women. yes on average, men are something like only 40% stronger.. but the average person doesn't work out at all. once you do, the physical strength differences take off.. then level off again because lets face it, all the records are set by genetically gifted people these days.

so back in highschool in 2005, i walked into the gym having never worked out before other than shoveling dirt and building damns as a kid.

weighed 155 pounds but could have met the 150 pound weight class if i tried. i think the next weight class was 165 and the records were significantly higher.

I dead lifted 385 pounds.. something like 12 times, without a weight belt. never tried to actually see what I could do once, was afraid i would hurt myself.. the record was, i think 405 pounds for the 150 weight class.
I could clean 175 pounds.. with no form at all, just bend over like a dead lift, and lift the bar to my shoulders. (due to bad posture, i could never lift much over my head, as those muscles were not developed, and still arent). the record was 185 pounds, set by the same person as the 405 deadlift.
I could hold a 60 pound barbell out at arms length, for like 20 seconds. 50 in my left arm.

I had broke my left tibia in 2001, so when i put 1200 pounds on the leg press, i felt my right tibia bending under the load but not my left. i didn't even feel sore the next day, but i only lifted the 1200 pounds off the stops (which are about half way). 1200 pounds was all i could put on the machine as we only had something like 6x100 pound weights and i had to fill it up with 45's

now take a look at this person in the 190 pound weight class

Shannon Pole-Summers

The OpenPowerlifting project aims to create a permanent, accurate, convenient, accessible, open archive of the world's powerlifting data.

www.openpowerlifting.org

and then read all the records in here

https://rawitalia.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/World-Womens-Powerlifting-Records.pdf

again, I did that with no prior intentional exercise.

i'm not actually genetically gifted. i later found out that i was under immense cortisol stress in my childhood and turns out it suppresses unnecessary metabolism (i was cold all the time, i wore sweat pants under my jeans nearly year round) and promotes muscle growth.

uh… I’m not exactly sure what point you’re trying to make, but what you described is extremely unusual. It’s only the biggest guys at my gym who are putting up numbers like that. I’ve recently gotten back to lifting after an injury last year and it’ll take me a couple years, minimum, to get to deadlifting 385 even once, much less a set of 12 reps without any warmup.

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

Anybody got a link to the full 46 second fight? I've only seen about a 10 second clip of what I assume is the final 10 seconds.... if the rest of the fight was anything like what I saw the Italian woman shouldn't be an Olympic boxer. Probably shouldn't be fighting at all. With anyone.

And I just want to note the headline here about "gender" in sports.... this is some sick twisted... stuff. This is it, guys. This is the kind of thing that "The Left" had in mind when "The Right" starts talking about "men" competing in women's sports and trans issues and everything else. THESE PEOPLE EXIST. You don't get to to put them in a box and call them abnormal and legislate against their existence. They exist. They're living their lives. As they are. Minding their own business. Until something like this. And now it's a "gender" issue. NO IT IS NOT. This is a woman by every right-wing definition.

I do also find it pretty dadgum funny how some, some woman from the United Nations council I think, articulated concerns about "violence against women" while discussing a sport that... ***checks notes*** ... involves punching each other in the face with fists.

 

[BPPLEE]

uh… I’m not exactly sure what point you’re trying to make, but what you described is extremely unusual. It’s only the biggest guys at my gym who are putting up numbers like that. I’ve recently gotten back to lifting after an injury last year and it’ll take me a couple years, minimum, to get to deadlifting 385 even once, much less a set of 12 reps without any warmup.

I could deadlift 405 10 times, bench press 405 5 times and squat 405 10 times. I could leg press 1,000 10 times and curl 80 pound dumbbells 10 times. But I weighed 240.
I will never be able to lift that much weight again
What he’s describing is incredible

 

[BPPLEE]

Anybody got a link to the full 46 second fight? I've only seen about a 10 second clip of what I assume is the final 10 seconds.... if the rest of the fight was anything like what I saw the Italian woman shouldn't be an Olympic boxer. Probably shouldn't be fighting at all. With anyone.

And I just want to note the headline here about "gender" in sports.... this is some sick twisted... stuff. This is it, guys. This is the kind of thing that "The Left" had in mind when "The Right" starts talking about "men" competing in women's sports and trans issues and everything else. THESE PEOPLE EXIST. You don't get to to put them in a box and call them abnormal and legislate against their existence. They exist. They're living their lives. As they are. Minding their own business. Until something like this. And now it's a "gender" issue. NO IT IS NOT. This is a woman by every right-wing definition.

I do also find it pretty dadgum funny how some, some woman from the United Nations council I think, articulated concerns about "violence against women" while discussing a sport that... ***checks notes*** ... involves punching each other in the face with fists.

High testosterone levels and male chromosomes are an unfair advantage.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Anybody got a link to the full 46 second fight? I've only seen about a 10 second clip of what I assume is the final 10 seconds.... if the rest of the fight was anything like what I saw the Italian woman shouldn't be an Olympic boxer. Probably shouldn't be fighting at all. With anyone.

And I just want to note the headline here about "gender" in sports.... this is some sick twisted... stuff. This is it, guys. This is the kind of thing that "The Left" had in mind when "The Right" starts talking about "men" competing in women's sports and trans issues and everything else. THESE PEOPLE EXIST. You don't get to to put them in a box and call them abnormal and legislate against their existence. They exist. They're living their lives. As they are. Minding their own business. Until something like this. And now it's a "gender" issue. NO IT IS NOT. This is a woman by every right-wing definition.

I do also find it pretty dadgum funny how some, some woman from the United Nations council I think, articulated concerns about "violence against women" while discussing a sport that... ***checks notes*** ... involves punching each other in the face with fists.

the video:

https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/s/D0INg5sicx

 

[iluvatar5150]

I could deadlift 405 10 times, bench press 405 5 times and squat 405 10 times. I could leg press 1,000 10 times and curl 80 pound dumbbells 10 times. But I weighed 240.
I will never be able to lift that much weight again
What he’s describing is incredible

yeah, the only thing that keeps me from crying shenanigans is how he didn’t write is as a flex

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

High testosterone levels and male chromosomes are an unfair advantage.

So was long slender torso and limbs that brought Michael Phelps 23 gold medals, but nobody said he had an unfair advantage.

 

[BPPLEE]

yeah, the only thing that keeps me from crying shenanigans is how he didn’t write is as a flex

I have been doing training with a Steel Mace, I have 5 of them of different weights and I was doing a 1,000 rep routine but issues with my back are causing unbearable leg pain and I have had to hold off on training for now
but anyway back to the topic

 

[BPPLEE]

So was long slender torso and limbs that brought Michael Phelps 23 gold medals, but nobody said he had an unfair advantage.

Did he have elevated testosterone levels?

 

[The IbanezerScrooge]

the video:

https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/s/D0INg5sicx

Wow, yeah she shouldn't have been in the ring with anyone.