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SALVATION

fhansen

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Faith is a gift of grace originating from God. All should respond to that grace but not all will. And faith is a REAL BIG DEAL. It's more than believing this or that about Jesus and what He did. It's the realization of reconcilation between man and God, the opposite of Adam's act of disobedience which was effectively an act of unbelief. As such faith places man back into a state of justice, righteousness because it places him back under the auspices of God.

So faith is righteousness, one of the three most important virtues, known as faith, hope, and love. To have and express it pleases God greatly, because it's so good for us: it's to embark on the road to our very purpose. As we come to embrace any of these gifts we enter and grow in His righteousness ourselves
 
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AbbaLove

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Keeping in mind that it is not human reasoning that brings one to faith, it is the Holy Spirit, whose work does not fail because of debate.
ff you had taken the time to consider the entire context of my post (#141 reposted portion in peaceful blue below including Mark 12:30) that you obviously failed to recognize the importance of the Holy Spirit to one's Faith.

And you shall love the Lord your God out of and with your whole heart and out of and with all your soul (your life) and out of and with all your mind (with your faculty of thought and your moral understanding) and out of and with all your strength. This is the first and principal commandment. (Mark 12:30 - AMPC)

Perhaps not realizing that to do so is only possible with the abiding pesence, guidance and comfort provided by His Holy Spirit. We need to surrender our human will (no matter how admirble we think it is) to His Will. To do so is only possible when our eyes and ears are spiritually aligned with His and not to worldly passions that may seem just at the time, but only last for a season.

You see there was no need for your above reply
You most definitely have me confused with someone else.
Could it be you "most definitely" need to read and consider all of one's post instead of being quick to misrepresent.

Do you go out of your way to misrepresent the posts of others (e.g. fhansen) believing that others won't notice?
 
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Clare73

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ff you had taken the time to consider the entire context of my post (#141 reposted portion in peaceful blue below including Mark 12:30) that you obviously failed to recognize the importance of the Holy Spirit to one's Faith.

And you shall love the Lord your God out of and with your whole heart and out of and with all your soul (your life) and out of and with all your mind (with your faculty of thought and your moral understanding) and out of and with all your strength. This is the first and principal commandment. (Mark 12:30 - AMPC)

Perhaps not realizing that to do so is only possible with the abiding pesence, guidance and comfort provided by His Holy Spirit. We need to surrender our human will (no matter how admirble we think it is) to His Will. To do so is only possible when our eyes and ears are spiritually aligned with His and not to worldly passions that may seem just at the time, but only last for a season.

You see there was no need for your above reply

Could it be you "most definitely" need to read and consider all of one's post instead of being quick to misrepresent.

Do you go out of your way to misrepresent the posts of others (e.g. fhansen) believing that others won't notice?
Please demonstrate what I have anywhere misrepresented.
 
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AbbaLove

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All the rest is being "sanctified" (Ro 6:16, 19), after being "justified"
Romans 6:16,19 says nothing about sanctified or justified. Are you confused? .Sanctified precedes justified and then glorified ...

1 Corinthians 6:11
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.​
Romans 8:30
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.​

If you disagree with the above order/sequence then you would do well to read this thread by BrightJames52 ...

Where in the Bible do you find scripture that reads "one is sanctified and then glorified". You have it reversed (seeker sensitive theology)
 
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Clare73

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Romans 6:16,19 says nothing about sanctified or justified. Are you confused? .Sanctified precedes justified and then glorified ...
Ro 6:16, 19 refer to "righteousness (dikiaosune) leading to holiness" (sanctification), which is righteousness/justification (dikaiosis).
Sanctified precedes justified and then glorified ...
Justification (forensic righteousness, declaration of "not guilty") by faith (Ro 3:28) occurs with salvation (sin forgiven). (Eph 2:8-9).
Sanctification (actual righteousness) follows in a life of obedience in the Holy Spirit (Ro 6:19) after salvation and justification by faith.

It's faith --> salvation --> justification (declaration of "not guilty," forensic righteousness imputed by faith, Ro 4:1-5, Ge 15:6).
Where in the Bible do you find scripture that reads "one is sanctified and then glorified". You have it reversed (seeker sensitive theology)
Glorification occurs at the resurrection (1 Co 15:43), which is after death (1 Co 15:42), where our bodies will then be like Jesus' glorious resurrection body (Php 3:2, Col 3:4).

It's faith --> salvation --> justification --> sanctification --> death --> resurrection --> glorification.

Faith = belief and trust in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of one's sin (Eph 2:8--9).
Salvation = God's forgiveness of sin, removal of his wrath (Ro 5:9) on one's sin.
Justification = sentence of acquittal of guilt (by God), of "not guilty," sin forgiven (Ro 3:28).
Sanctification = becoming a slave to righteousness leading to holiness (Ro 6:19).
Death = separation of the human spirit from its body to be with Christ (Php 1:21-26).
Resurrection = raised from mortal death to immortal life (1 Co 15:42).
Glorification - new spiritual body at the resurrection like Jesus' spiritual resurrection body (i.e., physical, imperishable, glorious, powerful), fit to live eternally with God (1 Co 15:49, 53-54).

Justification is God's sentence of acquittal of guilt, which is conditioned on 1) Christ's sacrifice, and 2) acceptance of Christ by faith; i.e., salvation (Ro 5:16).

The gift (Ro 5:15),
the gift that came by the grace of the one man Jesus Christ (Ro 5:15),
the gift of God (Ro 5:16), that was unlike the result of one man's sin which brought condemnation for all,
the gift that followed many transgressions (Ro 5:16) is the atonement of Christ; i.e., salvation; i.e., forgiveness of sin.
That gift (salvation) brought justification (Ro 5:16).
 
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AbbaLove

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Your seeker-sensitive mistruth seems to be the Christian norm (i.e. sanctification and then glorification) when the truth is that glorification follows justification ... equals SALVATION.

You have yet to show me a verse that contradicts Paul's anointed ministry ...

And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.​
And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, he also glorified.​

You aren't able to find scripture that indicates one is first justified, then sanctified and then glorified. Your sequence (justified before sanctified) seems to be the norm within Christendom. As if you are inline with a Vicar of Christ to make changes. Thus you come across that you believe being glorified (SALVATION) follows sanctification instead of justification ...

All the rest is being "sanctified" (Ro 6:16, 19), after being "justified"​

Wrong as one's sanctification preceeds one's justification. Maybe you want to correct Paul with your seeker-sensitive theology as you come across as if you are a vicar for your sequence to SALAVATION.

Have you yet found scripture of your mistaken sequence ... "you were justified, then you were sanctified, then you were glorfied" Maybe like a Vicar of SALVATION you want to advise the Church of your seek-sensitive theology.

Yet you can't find any scripture to justify your confusion other than modern day seeker-sensitive theology.
 
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Clare73

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Your seeker-sensitive mistruth seems to be the Christian norm (i.e. sanctification and then glorification) when the truth is that glorification follows justification ... equals SALVATION.
See post #165.

A more thorough knowledge of the NT would be profitable here.
 
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AbbaLove

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See post #165.

A more thorough knowledge of the NT would be profitable here.
You have yet to show me scripture supporting your mistaken seeker-sensitive sequence (Justification and then Sanctification) that contradicts Paul's sequence (Sanctification followed by Justification and a glorified body) ...

And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.​
And those He predestined, He also called; those He called(sanctified), He also justified; those He justified, he also glorified.​

Your seeker-sensitive sequence is backwards. We are first sanctified as a Believer and finally justified (eternal life).with a glorified body...

By definition, sanctification means to be reserved for holy use.while on earth. The objective of every believer should be to pursue righteousness. Sanctification demonstrates the urgency to be emptied out of anything that impairs a believer against being a useful vessel for God’s glory.​

Your following belief that we are first justified and then sanctified isn't sriptural, rather it's a false seeker sensitive theology as you have previously stated ....
All the rest is being "sanctified" (Ro 6:16, 19), after being "justified"
Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

We are sanctified by His Grace. It's a Gift leading to one's justication, leading to eternal life and a glorified body. Your seeker-sensitive reverse sequence is not scriptural.

Have you yet found a verse (doesn't exist) that supports your seeker-sensitive sequence; while in opposition to Paul's scriptural sequence ...

And those He predestined, He also called; those He called(sanctified) , He also justified; those He justified, he also glorified.​
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.​
 
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Clare73

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Your seeker-sensitive mistruth. . .
Methinks the pot is calling the kettle black.
You have yet to show me scripture supporting your mistaken seeker-sensitive sequence (Justification and then Sanctification) that contradicts Paul's sequence(Sanctification followed by Justification and a glorified body) ...
You have yet to show me that Paul meant that as the order of sequence.
As you have yet to show me that Paul meant his sequence to be the order of occurence of those events.
So let's look at and study carefully the Biblical nature of justification and sanctification.

Justification (dikaiosis - forensic righteousness):
1) is by faith alone, no works (Ro 3:28), as is salvation (Eph 2:8-9).
2) justification is simply a declaration by God of "not guilty" because one's sin has been forgiven by faith in Christ, a sentence of acquittal, a pronouncement of sinlessness (forensic righteousness), of right standing with God (sin free), not actual righteousness of character.

Sanctification (hagiasmos = set apart, holiness, actual righteousness of character):
1) separated, from sin and to God (1 Co 1:30,1 Th 2:13, 1 Pe 1:2),
2) the course of life of those separated to God (1Th 4:3, 4, 7, Ro 6:19, 22, 1 Tim 2:15, Heb 12:14),
3) relationship with God into which men enter by faith in Christ (Ac 26:18, 1 Co 6:11),
4) to be pursued by the believer (1 Tim 2:15, Heb 12:14) not a granting, transferring or imputing, but an individual possession, built up little by little as the result of obedience to the Word of God and of following the example of Christ (Mt 11:29, Jn 13:15, E;h 4:20, Php 2:5) in the power of the Holy Spirit (Ro 8:13, Eph 3:16), who is the agent in that sanctification (Ro 15:16, 2 Th 2:13, 1 Pe 1:2).

So justification, being simply a declaration by God of sin-free (because of one's faith in Christ for the forgiveness of one's sin), and
not being actual holiness of character
and sanctification being actual holiness of character through a life of obedience in the power of the Holy Spirit,

we can see that sanctification does not occur at the time of the gift of faith (Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3)
while justification does occur at the time of faith (Ro 3:28),
therefore, justification at the time of coming to faith is before the gradual growth in sanctification of an obedient lifetime,
and the Biblical order is:

faith --> salvation --> justification --> sanctification --> death --> resurrection --> glorification (immortal, sinless, glorious body like Christ's)

Justification is God's sentence of acquittal of guilt, which is conditioned on 1) Christ's sacrifice, and 2) acceptance of Christ by faith; i.e., salvation (Ro 5:16).

The gift (Ro 5:15),
the gift that came by the grace of the one man Jesus Christ (Ro 5:15),
the gift of God (Ro 5:16), that was unlike the result of one man's sin which brought condemnation for all,
the gift that followed many transgressions (Ro 5:16) is the atonement of Christ; i.e., salvation; i.e., forgiveness of sin.
That gift (salvation) brought justification (Ro 5:16).
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.​
And those He predestined, He also called; those He called(sanctified), He also justified; those He justified, he also glorified.​
"Called"( kaleo) is not "sanctified, holy" (hagiasmos).

"Called" is an invitation (to sanctification, holiness).
"Sanctified" is the result of the action of sanctification, holiness in the answered "call."
Your seeker-sensitive sequence is backwards. We are first sanctified as a Believer and finally justified (eternal life).with a glorified body...
Justification (dikaiosis) is not life "eternal" (zoe aionios) of Jn 3:16, Tit 1:2. . .
justification is a declaration by God of "not guilty," sin forgiven, sin-free
--without sin; i.e., right(eous) standing before God, which does not include holiness/sanctification of character (hagiasmos).
By definition, sanctification means to be reserved for holy use.while on earth.​
By definition sanctification means "set apart". . .from sin and to God.
By definition sanctification is the process of dying to sin and living to God, as symbolized in baptism, where
we die to sin as Christ died for sin, and rise to live a new life (Ro 6:1-4) of obedience leading to holiness/sanctification (Ro 6:19).
 
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AbbaLove

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All the rest is being "sanctified" (Ro 6:16, 19), after being "justified"
What seeker wouldn't want to hear a pastor or evangelist tell him/her they are first justified? This seeker-sensitive approach is throughout Christendom and yet it is not scriptural. When you and others go down that path of questioning the Lord's sequence you are being led astray ... when in fact His Word is infallible. If you don't believe Paul then who will be next for you to question as not lining up with your theology that condradicts the Word Of God.

You try so hard to quote scripture as if it supports your seeker sensitive sequence. I doubt you really know how ingrained you are into a seeker-sensitive theology ... OR ... if you do you prefer that approach with justification before sanctfication as it's more appealing to a nominal Christian.

The problem is that more than a few that have been taught that they are first justified don't go on to live a sanctified life and yet somehow believe they are still sanctified ... thanks in no small measure to a seeker-sensitive approach to evengelizing. The following is the Lord's sequence as recorded by the Apostle Paul. If you don't approve you'll have to arque your justification first sequence followed by sanctification with the Lord. As for me i prefer His sequence ...

And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.​
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.{/indent]​
You and others like the idea of being justified first, but His sequence of sanctification first is correct. All your previous posting doesn't alter the Lord's sequence. The primary reason you and others change the sequence is because they want to believe they are justifed even though they still sin. Then they are taught it's impossible to stop sinning which again is questioning that Jesus' expectation is not realistic even for born again Christians ...​
John 5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Yet to the seeker-sensitive a Pastor will say it's not possible to stop sinning which seems to make sense to a seeker.​
 
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OnePlanPeopleDestiny

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In the ancient church teachings and those of the ECFs, salvation is a turning away from the world and sin and turning to God-and is inseparable from becoming righteous and living accordingly: doing good, overcoming sin, obeying the commandments, etc. This righteousness comes by virtue of being reconciled and walking with God, under grace, in a union based on and established by faith. If one were to persistently live in obvious, grave sin then they’re not His children.

Do you think this understanding has changed at all today?
The Word of God supports those propositions. However, men over the course of centuries have influenced masses to think one way or another in ways that deviate from those ancient but enduring truths. The Word of God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Repent and believe means today exactly what it meant when Jesus commanded it.

May the Lord our God bless you and keep you and shine His face upon you. In Jesus's mighty and holy holy holy and precious name. Amen amen.
 
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Clare73

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What seeker wouldn't want to hear a pastor or evangelist tell him/her they are first justified? This seeker-sensitive approach is throughout Christendom and yet it is not scriptural.
Fails to address post #169.
 
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AbbaLove

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Fails to address post #169.
You have a Bblical grasp of sanctification and justification. The only problem is your sequence is not the Lord's or Paul's sequence as inspired by the Holy Spirit.

You have a seeker-sensitive sequence that appeals to the mindset of a seeker. and a Pastor that wants to fill the pews. The problem is that more than a few seekers remain nominal (lukewarn), and yet are led to believe they are a born-again Christian. They like being told they are"justified" which to them is the same as being "saved".

The problem with your sequence Is that glorification follows justification (not sanctification)
Romans 8:30

The pot is challening (calling out) the Apostle Paul with your ... justificaion first ... seeker -sensitive theology. Your following sequence is appealing to the mndset of a seeker (nominal believer) who may never get beyond being lukewarm living a life of hyper-grace. Being told future sins are already forgiven so no need for repentance and futher told it's impossible to stop sinning.

All the rest is being "sanctified" (Ro 6:16, 19), after being "justified"​

Maybe someday you'll want to debate Paul ... so he can correct your seeker-sensitive reverse sequence. Your sequence implies that Paul's sequence is wrong ... implying his sequence isn't inspired by the Holy Spirit calling into question the validity of the Bible. Your sequence is of more interest to you because it's appealing to the mindset of a nominal seeker. Rationalizing that in time he/she will become a mature sanctified born again Christian ... OR ... is your theology such that one is "born again" when they are "justified" ?

And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, he also glorified.​
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.​

Here is another scripture recorded by Paul that is confusing to a nominal believer, and so a seeker-sensitive Pastor won't touch it and like Joseph Prince will leave out "with fear and trembling" from the verse ... so it isn't offensive to a seeker-sensitive believer ... Is Philippians 2:12 telling us we need to work for our salvation? - Questions About the Gospel of Grace

Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,​
 
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Clare73

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You have a Bblical grasp of sanctification and justification. The only problem is your sequence is not the Lord's or Paul's sequence as inspired by the Holy Spirit.
See post #169.
 
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AbbaLove

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See post #169.
I did, did you likewise #173

The Good News is that both sanctication and justification work together in harmony thanks to the Holy Spirit. They have equal importance as you can't have one without the other. A sanctified life (not turning back) also results in a glorified body.

And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.​
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.​
There is validity to the above sequence with sanctified preceeding justified followed by glorified. A seeker-sensitive hyper-grace theology diminishes/dilutes the importance of holiness (sanctification) ... sanctification derek prince - Google Search
1 Peter 1:15-17
15 But as He which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;​
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I AM holy.​
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:​
The Word Of God is the Supreme Theology as expressed in the sequence of sanctification followed by justification. "those He justified, He also glorified" = the ultimate evidence of one's SALVATION.​
 
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Clare73

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I did, did you likewise #173

The Good News is that both sanctication and justification work together in harmony thanks to the Holy Spirit. They have equal importance as you can't have one without the other. A sanctified life (not turning back) also results in a glorified body.
Salvation results in a glorified body, because

salvation --> justification --> obedience --> sanctification --> death --> resurrection (glorified body)
 
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Clare73

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I did, did you likewise #173

The Good News is that both sanctication and justification work together in harmony thanks to the Holy Spirit. They have equal importance as you can't have one without the other. A sanctified life (not turning back) also results in a glorified body.
Justification (dikaiosis) is a declaration by God of "not guilty" due to one's faith in Jesus Christ by which sin is remitted, a sentence of acquittal, a finding of right standing with justice; i.e., a forensic righteousness, not an actual righteousness of character which is through obedience in the Holy Spirit.
 
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AbbaLove

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And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.​
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.​
Ones theology sequence doesn't preempt God's sequence. Sanctifiction is a personal relationship with our Lord not our own theological sequence.​
Another misinterpretation of scripture by seeker-sensitive theology is the word "work" as if our work to glorify the Lord is not needed ...
Ephesians 2:10
For we are tHis workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.​
1722265748291.png
Colossians 3:23-24
Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.​
The following scripture has been misrepresented by seeker-sensitive preaching not realizing the works of a sanctified saint are inspired by the Holy Spirit to glorify God (not man).​
James 2:18 (speaking as a sanctified holy vessel with good works​
But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works.​
 
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Clare73

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And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.​
1 Corinthians 6:11And that is what some of you were.​
But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.​
As Ro 8:30 is not necessarily a complete list of the works of salvation (sanctification is not mentioned),
so 1 Co 6:11 is not necessarily the order of the works of salvation (justification--declaration of "not guilty"--being the result of salvation; i.e., sin forgiven).
 
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AbbaLove

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Salvation results in a glorified body, because
... of the Biblical sequence of Romans 8:30 and 1 Corinthians 6:11 ... NOT what is seen as today's prevalent seeker-sensitive theology
salvation --> justification --> obedience --> sanctification --> death --> resurrection (glorified body)
This is a good example of a seeker-sensitive sequence. It is not the Lord's sequence. Instead of rejecting the Lord's sequence (Romans 8:30 and 1 Corinthians 6:11 it would do you good to accept the Lord's sequence: Sanctification preceding Justification ...

Romans 8:30
And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.
1 Corinthians 6:11
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.​

Possibly the greatest deception is that SALVATION precedes ... "justification --> obedience --> sanctification". This theology could be why some christians don't believe "good works" unto the Lord are necessary.
 
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