(1- Having an unveiled face) By beholding we become changed (What is called Antinomianism is not Lawlessness)

[Grip Docility]

2 Corinthians 3:18 We all, with unveiled faces, are looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is from the Lord who is the Spirit.​

There are 4 major spiritual concepts being discussed within this Pauline sentence.

1- Having an unveiled face
2- Looking in a mirror at Jesus Christ (Jesus is the very Glory of God / Effulgence or Visible Light) <- Link to part 2
3- Transformation (Conversion)
4a- The inner working of the Holy Spirit
4b- The inner working of the Holy Spirit​

This verse is one of the verses in scripture that is Spiritual Meat. How meaty? Is it a massive Fillet? yes... Is it a New York Strip? yes... Is it a T-Bone? yes... Is it a Porter House comprised of Wagyu Beef? Without question! But, here's the issue. Before we can break out the steak sauce, knife, fork and napkin, we have to understand the principles required to Spiritually discern this Wagyu Porterhouse. For the sake of interest, a good Wagyu Porterhouse can go for as high as $1000.00 or more.

We have 4 major spiritual concepts to unpack, that would symmetrically be best served with 4 study concepts, for the sake of a good read. We'll reduce mental strain by labeling the 4 study concepts as A though D. This way the initially discussed 1-4, can be served up in a perfectly prepared fashion.

A- Paul authored 13 epistles that can be drawn from in totality to discern any 1 epistle authored by Heavenly Jesus Christ, through Paul. A major concept that gives this validity is that the flow of pouring in all of Paul's writings together follows the direct flow of any given large multi-paragraph flow of any of his writings. A specific compass to accomplishing this without "twisting Paul" to bad results is to remember that Jesus doesn't like it when Spiritual teachings are reduced to "Commandments, Rules, Ordnances".​

​

B- The Holy Spirit of Christ that indwells believers is the single most incredible provision of God unto mankind which required God, by God's perfect Judgment, providing the availability of His blood unto all mankind through His giving of His Everything unto mankind.​

​

C- Jesus Christ is the MEAT of all SCRIPTURE.​

​

D- Scripture is scriptures only true commentary, in conjunction with the provision of the Holy Spirit of Christ.​

​

1- Having an unveiled face

The very chapter we are in draws from this specific contextual writing flow.​

2 Corinthians 3:7 Now if the ministry of death, chiseled in letters on stones, came with glory, so that the Israelites were not able to look directly at Moses’ face because of the glory from his face—a fading glory—​

The old covenant is summarized by the very Tablets of the Covenant (Hebrews 9:4,14) and known as Moses by the theologically accurate and informed. Moses is a "Creation" and because of his presence being so close to the Theophany, his very face shined, yet because Moses is the Created and not the Creator, the Glory of God's presence faded as Moses was not in the presence of the Creator. To say that the Stone Law gave Moses Glory, would be blasphemy. Moses face shown because of his encounter with the Theophany.​

​

8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?​

If Jesus Christ had not written in the dust of Creation that He drew Adam from, clothed in the very Dust of Creation that He once formed Adam from, before an Adulterous Woman condemned by the very Ministry of Death chiseled in stone and If Jesus Christ hadn't specifically given a NEW Commandment, we would be confused here. Jesus Christ did do those "Ifs". Therefore we know that the Ministry of the Spirit is summarized in the NEW COMMANDMENTS; Love the Lord your God as He has demonstrated His Love for us. Love your neighbor as yourself, who is, by scripture now Dead, only known as the INNER MAN within, which is the union of the Holy Spirit of Christ and one's human soul, which is beset to the Good Potters hands. (Clay, Dust that has been renewed by Living Water)​

​

9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory,​

Grammatically speaking, We are about to witness a scriptural contrast. We are being primed to know that the Ministry of CONDEMNATION which is revealed to have been simultaneously a Revelation of God, Who alone is Good by and Just to Judge according to it's LAW and a revelation of the Evil one who Condemns the Lawfully accused as Sinful per the Law with the Power of Death, which the evil one was only stripped of, at Golgotha, by his false imputation of blasphemy against Jesus, through the Sanhedrin he had corrupted and directly handed Jesus over to through his (the evil one's) possession of one of Jesus' twelve disciples.​

​

the ministry of righteousness overflows with even more glory.​

Love your neighbor as yourself is superior to the Sand that formed to stone. Love your neighbor is founded on the eternal ROCK of all Ages. This Rock has never not existed. This Rock is the ONE TRUE foundation of Faith, Hope and the GREATEST of all things, LOVE. The Rock's imparted indwelling of His and His Father's Holy Spirit is our abundance of Living Water. This Living Water is Grace, Love, Faith, Hope, Peace, Patience, Joy, Self Control, Kindness, Unconditional Love, Gentleness, which no Law is written against.​

​

10 In fact, what had been glorious is not glorious now by comparison because of the glory that surpasses it.​

When we speak of the Royal Law (Golden Rule), we speak of a very Miracle of God. It surpasses the foundation built on sand, which moth and rust destroy. The Stone was God revealing that He alone is God and Creation cannot "lord" over itself to any good end. Only God is good. The dispensation of Angels ended on Golgotha. The Angels that rejoiced in Christ's victory, live by His Golden Rule and understand that He (Jesus) is the very Face of Love (God is Love). The Angels that were filled with rage at the end of the Old Covenant (Moses), hungered for Power, Control, Dominance, Sovereignty, Pride expressed through self exaltation.​

​

11 For if what was fading away was glorious, what endures will be even more glorious.​

The old covenant is only present where the accusations of the King of Demon's are given value. Love covers a Multitude of Sins. Love is the mechanism of God and God, alone. Love is God's power. Where Pride denotes exaltation, Love denotes humility and a Heart (Soul) aching to serve out of the authority of God's Unconditional Love. One act of sincere Love overpowers 1000 acts of hatred brought about by the enemy.​

12 Therefore, having such a hope, we use great boldness. 13 We are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the Israelites could not stare at the end of what was fading away, 14 but their minds were closed. For to this day, at the reading of the old covenant, the same veil remains; it is not lifted,​

By direct flow of this passage, it specifically states that the Covenant of Moses, defined by the very Stone Tablets of the Covenant closes the minds of mankind. The very veil that it places within mankind is the very Veil that The Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ rent asunder when The Son gave up His Holy Ghost, on the Cross. Through the Father and The Son, the veil that separated man from God, was torn in two. Sin officially imputed by the Law, was reconciled within the PERFECTLY INNOCENT flesh of God. Christ became the Veil, to destroy the veil.​

​

because it is set aside only in Christ.​

When we repent that we are perpetually condemned as Sinners when compared to the standards of God's Perfection, we become the Pharisee that was self righteous, becoming the man that beats his chest, with lowered head that says; "Oh Lord, Have Mercy on me a sinner". When we repent from Self (Moses/The Old Covenant) to Jesus Christ (The New Covenant), we become blinded to this world like Saul on the road to Damascus. The only thing we then see, is The Very One True Blinding Light of the Creator. We no longer look to self, which fails daily, but keep our eyes mysteriously fixed to Jesus Christ, from whom all True Beauty that never fades, Flows.​

​

5 Even to this day, whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts,​

This very veil bears Human Judgment of self and mankind. This very veil hardens the soil of the human soul into a self exaltation that holds self and humanity to impossible standards. This veil casts darkness, because the Shakina Glory is no longer dwelling in Temples built by human hands. (Acts 17:24)​

​

16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 We all, with unveiled faces, are looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is from the Lord who is the Spirit.​

​

By BEHOLDING we become changed. Our works of dead flesh are not our concern. The works of Jesus Christ through us are forever our concern. The more we exalt ourselves, the less that His Love can flow through us and be provided to us. The more we Humble ourselves before God and mankind, the more that His Love can flow through us and be provided to us.​

​

2 Corinthians 3:18 We all, with unveiled faces, are looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is from the Lord who is the Spirit.​

​

Op will be split into parts due to length. Part 1 concluded.

 

[Soyeong]

2 Corinthians 3:18 We all, with unveiled faces, are looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is from the Lord who is the Spirit.

There are 4 major spiritual concepts being discussed within this Pauline sentence.

1- Having an unveiled face
2- Looking in a mirror at Jesus Christ (Jesus is the very Glory of God / Effulgence or Visible Light)
3- Transformation (Conversion)
4- The inner working of the Holy Spirit

This verse is one of the verses in scripture that is Spiritual Meat. How meaty? Is it a massive Fillet? yes... Is it a New York Strip? yes... Is it a T-Bone? yes... Is it a Porter House comprised of Wagyu Beef? Without question! But, here's the issue. Before we can break out the steak sauce, knife, fork and napkin, we have to understand the principles required to Spiritually discern this Wagyu Porterhouse. For the sake of interest, a good Wagyu Porterhouse can go for as high as $1000.00 or more.

We have 4 major spiritual concepts to unpack, that would symmetrically be best served with 4 study concepts, for the sake of a good read. We'll reduce mental strain by labeling the 4 study concepts as A though D. This way the initially discussed 1-4, can be served up in a perfectly prepared fashion.

A- Paul authored 13 epistles that can be drawn from in totality to discern any 1 epistle authored by Heavenly Jesus Christ, through Paul. A major concept that gives this validity is that the flow of pouring in all of Paul's writings together follows the direct flow of any given large multi-paragraph flow of any of his writings. A specific compass to accomplishing this without "twisting Paul" to bad results is to remember that Jesus doesn't like it when Spiritual teachings are reduced to "Commandments, Rules, Ordnances".

B- The Holy Spirit of Christ that indwells believers is the single most incredible provision of God unto mankind which required God, by God's perfect Judgment, providing the availability of His blood unto all mankind through His giving of His Everything unto mankind.

C- Jesus Christ is the MEAT of all SCRIPTURE.

D- Scripture is scriptures only true commentary, in conjunction with the provision of the Holy Spirit of Christ.

1- Having an unveiled face
The very chapter we are in draws from this specific contextual writing flow.
2 Corinthians 3:7 Now if the ministry of death, chiseled in letters on stones, came with glory, so that the Israelites were not able to look directly at Moses’ face because of the glory from his face—a fading glory—
The old covenant is summarized by the very Tablets of the Covenant (Hebrews 9:4,14) and known as Moses by the theologically accurate and informed. Moses is a "Creation" and because of his presence being so close to the Theophany, his very face shined, yet because Moses is the Created and not the Creator, the Glory of God's presence faded as Moses was not in the presence of the Creator. To say that the Stone Law gave Moses Glory, would be blasphemy. Moses face shown because of his encounter with the Theophany.

8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
If Jesus Christ had not written in the dust of Creation that He drew Adam from, clothed in the very Dust of Creation that He once formed Adam from, before an Adulterous Woman condemned by the very Ministry of Death chiseled in stone and If Jesus Christ hadn't specifically given a NEW Commandment, we would be confused here. Jesus Christ did do those "Ifs". Therefore we know that the Ministry of the Spirit is summarized in the NEW COMMANDMENTS; Love the Lord your God as He has demonstrated His Love for us. Love your neighbor as yourself, who is, by scripture now Dead, only known as the INNER MAN within, which is the union of the Holy Spirit of Christ and one's human soul, which is beset to the Good Potters hands. (Clay, Dust that has been renewed by Living Water)

9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory,
Grammatically speaking, We are about to witness a scriptural contrast. We are being primed to know that the Ministry of CONDEMNATION which is revealed to have been simultaneously a Revelation of God, Who alone is Good by and Just to Judge according to it's LAW and a revelation of the Evil one who Condemns the Lawfully accused as Sinful per the Law with the Power of Death, which the evil one was only stripped of, at Golgotha, by his false imputation of blasphemy against Jesus, through the Sanhedrin he had corrupted and directly handed Jesus over to through his (the evil one's) possession of one of Jesus' twelve disciples.

the ministry of righteousness overflowps with even more glory.
Love your neighbor as yourself is superior to the Sand that formed to stone. Love your neighbor is founded on the eternal ROCK of all Ages. This Rock has never not existed. This Rock is the ONE TRUE foundation of Faith, Hope and the GREATEST of all things, LOVE. The Rock's imparted indwelling of His and His Father's Holy Spirit is our abundance of Living Water. This Living Water is Grace, Love, Faith, Hope, Peace, Patience, Joy, Self Control, Kindness, Unconditional Love, Gentleness, which no Law is written against.

10 In fact, what had been glorious is not glorious now by comparison because of the glory that surpasses it.
When we speak of the Royal Law (Golden Rule), we speak of a very Miracle of God. It surpasses the foundation built on sand, which moth and rust destroy. The Stone was God revealing that He alone is God and Creation cannot "lord" over itself to any good end. Only God is good. The dispensation of Angels ended on Golgotha. The that Angels that rejoiced in Christ's victory, live by His Golden Rule and understand that He (Jesus) is the very Face of Love (God is Love). The Angels that were filled with rage at the end of the Old Covenant (Moses), hungered for Power, Control, Dominance, Sovereignty, Pride expressed through self exaltation.

11 For if what was fading away was glorious, what endures will be even more glorious.
The old covenant is only present where the accusations of the King of Demon's are given value. Love covers a Multitude of Sins. Love is the mechanism of God and God, alone. Love is God's power. Where Pride denotes exaltation, Love denotes humility and a Heart (Soul) aching to serve out of the authority of God's Unconditional Love. One act of sincere Love overpowers 1000 acts of hatred brought about by the enemy.

12 Therefore, having such a hope, we use great boldness. 13 We are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the Israelites could not stare at the end of what was fading away, 14 but their minds were closed. For to this day, at the reading of the old covenant, the same veil remains; it is not lifted,
By direct flow of this passage, it specifically states that the Covenant of Moses, defined by the very Stone Tablets of the Covenant closes the minds of mankind. The very veil that it places within mankind is the very Veil that The Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ rent asunder when The Son gave up His Holy Ghost, on the Cross. Through the Father and The Son, the veil that separated man from God, was torn in two. Sin officially imputed by the Law, was reconciled within the PERFECTLY INNOCENT flesh of God. Christ became the Veil, to destroy the veil.

because it is set aside only in Christ.
When we repent that we are perpetually condemned as Sinners when compared to the standards of God's Perfection, we become the Pharisee that was self righteous, becoming the man that beats his chest, with lowered head that says; "Oh Lord, Have Mercy on me a sinner". When we repent from Self (Moses/The Old Covenant) to Jesus Christ (The New Covenant), we become blinded to this world like Saul on the road to Damascus. The only thing we then see, is The Very Blinding Light of this World. We no longer look to self, which fails daily, but keep our eyes mysteriously fixed to Jesus Christ, from whom all True Beauty that never fades, Flows.

5 Even to this day, whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts,
This very veil bears Human Judgment of self and mankind. This very veil hardens the soil of the human soul into a self exaltation that holds self and humanity to impossible standards. This veil casts darkness, because the Shakina Glory is no longer dwelling in Temples built by human hands. (Acts 17:24)

16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 We all, with unveiled faces, are looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is from the Lord who is the Spirit.
By BEHOLDING we become changed. Our works of dead flesh are not our concern. The works of Jesus Christ through us are forever our concern. The more we exalt ourselves, the less that His Love can flow through us and be provided to us. The more we Humble ourselves before God and mankind, the more that His Love can flow through us and be provided to us.

2 Corinthians 3:18 We all, with unveiled faces, are looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Op will be split into parts due to length. Part 1 concluded.

The greatest two commandments are found in Deuteronomy 6:4-7 and Leviticus 19:18, so they are not new.

Everything in the Torah is either in regard to how to love God or how to love our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them. So the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey the other commandments that hang on them, which means that if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, theft, murder, idolatry, kidnapping, favoritism, rape, and so forth for the rest of the Torah.

The veil was preventing those who read the Torah from seeing that everything in to testifies about how to know Jesus, but it also prevents those who reject the Torah from seeing the same thing.

 

[Grip Docility]

The greatest two commandments are found in Deuteronomy 6:4-7 and Leviticus 19:18, so they are not new.

Everything in the Torah is either in regard to how to love God or how to love our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them. So the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey the other commandments that hang on them, which means that if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, theft, murder, idolatry, kidnapping, favoritism, rape, and so forth for the rest of the Torah.

The veil was preventing those who read the Torah from seeing that everything in to testifies about how to know Jesus, but it also prevents those who reject the Torah from seeing the same thing.

Hello Soyeong,

I did some sleuthing and believe to understand that you are a Sabbatarian, correct?

 

[Grip Docility]

The greatest two commandments are found in Deuteronomy 6:4-7 and Leviticus 19:18, so they are not new.

Everything in the Torah is either in regard to how to love God or how to love our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them. So the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey the other commandments that hang on them, which means that if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, theft, murder, idolatry, kidnapping, favoritism, rape, and so forth for the rest of the Torah.

The veil was preventing those who read the Torah from seeing that everything in to testifies about how to know Jesus, but it also prevents those who reject the Torah from seeing the same thing.

My opinion on the matter, per Jesus Christ and John's writings.

The New Wine (New Covenant) is indeed the Oldest of commandments that far precede Moses.

1 John 2:7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard.​

We know that through biblical Hermeneutics and Exegesis of John's writings that his use of the phrase "The Beginning", binds to Genesis 1. We also know that John is referring to Jesus, the very Word/Logos/Memra when he uses the word "word". This affirms that John is specifying that Love is the New Command, yet OLDEST of all commands. John brings this home in this epistle of 1 John by going so far as to say "God is Love".​

I specify that it is indeed new per the words of our Friend, Savior, God and Master, Jesus Christ.

John 13:34,35 A new commandment (Covenant) I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

 

[Soyeong]

Hello Soyeong,

I did some sleuthing and believe to understand that you are a Sabbatarian, correct?

Indeed.

My opinion on the matter, per Jesus Christ and John's writings.

The New Wine (New Covenant) is indeed the Oldest of commandments that far precede Moses.
1 John 2:7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard.
We know that through biblical Hermeneutics and Exegesis of John's writings that his use of the phrase "The Beginning", binds to Genesis 1. We also know that John is referring to Jesus, the very Word/Logos/Memra when he uses the word "word". This affirms that John is specifying that Love is the New Command, yet OLDEST of all commands. John brings this home in this epistle of 1 John by going so far as to say "God is Love".

I specify that it is indeed new per the words of our Friend, Savior, God and Master, Jesus Christ.

John 13:34,35 A new commandment (Covenant) I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the law, so Jesus was not adding a brand new law. The Greek differentiates between newness with respect to time and newness with respect to quality, so it was not a brand new command with respect to time because it can found in Leviticus 19:18, but rather what is new about it is the quality of the example by which we should love our neighbor, and indeed the Greek word used refers to newness with respect to quality:

3501 /néos ("new on the scene") suggests something "new in time" – in contrast to its near-synonym (2537 /kainós, "new in quality").

In order to correctly obey the command to love our neighbor as ourselves we need to know how we should love ourselves and the answer to that is that we should love ourselves as Jesus loves us, which is therefore also how we should love our neighbor. So Jesus was not sinning by making changes to God's law, but rather he was teaching how to correctly obey it.

 

[Grip Docility]

Indeed.


In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the law, so Jesus was not adding a brand new law. The Greek differentiates between newness with respect to time and newness with respect to quality, so it was not a brand new command with respect to time because it can found in Leviticus 19:18, but rather what is new about it is the quality of the example by which we should love our neighbor, and indeed the Greek word used refers to newness with respect to quality:

3501 /néos ("new on the scene") suggests something "new in time" – in contrast to its near-synonym (2537 /kainós, "new in quality").

In order to correctly obey the command to love our neighbor as ourselves we need to know how we should love ourselves and the answer to that is that we should love ourselves as Jesus loves us, which is therefore also how we should love our neighbor. So Jesus was not sinning by making changes to God's law, but rather he was teaching how to correctly obey it.

I completely understand that you have a different perspective on this than myself. My stance is that Love is far more superior than stone.

I fully respect what you have written. I only ask you one thing, because you understand Deuteronomy 4:2, why do you stop at the end of chapter 5, when Moses doesn't finish dispensing what cannot be added to or subtracted from all the way to Deuteronomy 31:26?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The greatest two commandments are found in Deuteronomy 6:4-7 and Leviticus 19:18, so they are not new.

Everything in the Torah is either in regard to how to love God or how to love our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them. So the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey the other commandments that hang on them, which means that if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, theft, murder, idolatry, kidnapping, favoritism, rape, and so forth for the rest of the Torah.

The veil was preventing those who read the Torah from seeing that everything in to testifies about how to know Jesus, but it also prevents those who reject the Torah from seeing the same thing.

Of course following the greatest two commandments can only be done if we also follow the commandments that are part of the moral law, but I would caution you here to not be like the foolish Galatians and think we, as Christians, are required to follow the entire law of Moses, including even its burdensome rituals and such.

Galatians 3:1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[c] 7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”[d] 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. 10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f] 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[g] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[h] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

 

[Soyeong]

Of course following the greatest two commandments can only be done if we also follow the commandments that are part of the moral law,

The Bible never says anything to distinguish between whether or not a law is part of the moral law, it never lists which laws are part of the moral law, and it never even refers to that as being a category of law. The existence of the moral law would imply that we can be acting morally while disobeying the laws that are not in that category, however, there are no examples in the Bible of disobedience to God being said to be moral and I don't see any justification for thinking that it can ever be moral to disobey God. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to be doers of God's character traits in obedience to Him, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. All legislators give laws according to what they think ought to be done, so for someone to claim that some of God's laws are not part of the moral law is to claim that God made a moral error about what ought to be done when He gave those laws, and therefore to claim to have greater moral knowledge than God.

but I would caution you here to not be like the foolish Galatians and think we, as Christians, are required to follow the entire law of Moses, including even its burdensome rituals and such.

In 1 John 5:3, to love God is to obey His commandments, which are not burdensome, so nothing in the Law of Moses is burdensome. In Romans 10:5-8, Paul referenced Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that the Torah is not too difficult to obey and that obedience to them brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So by speaking against obeying the Torah as being burdensome, you are are calling God a liar, you are denying the word of faith that we proclaim, and you are speaking in favor of choosing death and a curse instead of life and a blessing. Furthermore, the Psalms express an extremely positive view of obeying the Torah, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of obeying it, then we will also share it as Paul did (Romans 7:22), which is incompatible with viewing it as being burdensome.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8). Furthermore, Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to be obeyers of the Torah by word and by example, being a Christian is about being a follower of what Christ taught, and it is absurd to interpret Galatians as Paul considering them to be foolish because they were being followers of what Christ taught. Rather, Paul problem in Galatians was that people were wanting to require Gentiles to obey works of the law in order to become justified.

Galatians 3:1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[c] 7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”[d] 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. 10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f] 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[g] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[h] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, and in Romans 3:31 and Galatians 3:10, Paul said that our faith upholds the Torah in contrast with saying that works of the law are not of faith. According to Deuteronomy 27-28, relying on the Book of the Law is the way to be blessed while not relying on it is the way to be cursed, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 3:10 as Paul quoting from Deuteronomy 27-28 in order to support arguing that relying on the Book of the Law is the way to be cursed while not relying on it is the way to be blessed. Rather, not relying on the Book of the Law is the way to be cursed, which is why everyone who relies on works of the law instead come under that curse.

In Galatians 3:10-12, Paul connected a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 saying that the righteous shall live by faith with a quote from Leviticus 18:5 that the one who obeys the Torah will attain life by it, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as those who are living in obedience to the Torah. Likewise, in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Torah, in 1 John 3:4-7, everyone who practices righteousness in obedience to the Torah is righteous even as they are righteous, and the context of Habakkuk 2 contrasts the righteous who are living by faith with those who are not living in obedience to the Torah, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to the Torah. God is trustworthy, therefore the Torah is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obediently trusting in the Torah, it is contradictory for someone to think that we should trust God, but not His instructions, and to deny that the Torah is of faith rather than works of the law is to deny the faithfulness is the giver of the Torah. Being set free from the curse of the Torah is being set free from the curse of living in disobedience to the Torah so that we can be free to enjoy the blessing of getting to live in obedience to it.

 

[Soyeong]

I completely understand that you have a different perspective on this than myself. My stance is that Love is far more superior than stone.

Why did you ask if I kept the Sabbath?

A spiritual principle is superior that instructions for how to be doers of that principle because it would be overwhelming to exhaustively teach how to be doers of that principle in every possible situation, so the point is to teach the spiritual principle of love by teaching a limited number of instructions for how to love, say 613, which all have that principle in common. If we correctly understand that principle, then it will lead us in how to love in even in situations that are not specifically listed as one of the 613 commandments, but love is not doing something other than what is in accordance with those commandments, so correctly understanding that principle will never lead us away from obeying them.

I fully respect what you have written. I only ask you one thing, because you understand Deuteronomy 4:2, why do you stop at the end of chapter 5, when Moses doesn't finish dispensing what cannot be added to or subtracted from all the way to Deuteronomy 31:26?

It also instructions to not add to or subtract from the Torah in Deuteronomy 12:32. There are a number of things in the Books of Moses that are clearly not in a strict chronological order. For example, the Israelites kept the Sabbath in Exodus 16 before it was given in Exodus 20 and Jethro's advice in Exodus 18 was relevant after the Torah had been given in Exodus 20.

 

[Grip Docility]

Why did you ask if I kept the Sabbath?

A spiritual principle is superior that instructions for how to be doers of that principle because it would be overwhelming to exhaustively teach how to be doers of that principle in every possible situation, so the point is to teach the spiritual principle of love by teaching a limited number of instructions for how to love, say 613, which all have that principle in common. If we correctly understand that principle, then it will lead us in how to love in even in situations that are not specifically listed as one of the 613 commandments, but love is not doing something other than what is in accordance with those commandments, so correctly understanding that principle will never lead us away from obeying them.


It also instructions to not add to or subtract from the Torah in Deuteronomy 12:32. There are a number of things in the Books of Moses that are clearly not in a strict chronological order. For example, the Israelites kept the Sabbath in Exodus 16 before it was given in Exodus 20 and Jethro's advice in Exodus 18 was relevant after the Torah had been given in Exodus 20.

I appreciate and respect the time that you have taken to express your perspective in dialogue.

All Love and blessings to you in Jesus Christ my sibling in Him.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The Bible never says anything to distinguish between whether or not a law is part of the moral law, it never lists which laws are part of the moral law, and it never even refers to that as being a category of law. The existence of the moral law would imply that we can be acting morally while disobeying the laws that are not in that category, however, there are no examples in the Bible of disobedience to God being said to be moral and I don't see any justification for thinking that it can ever be moral to disobey God. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to be doers of God's character traits in obedience to Him, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. All legislators give laws according to what they think ought to be done, so for someone to claim that some of God's laws are not part of the moral law is to claim that God made a moral error about what ought to be done when He gave those laws, and therefore to claim to have greater moral knowledge than God.

So, you keep all 613 commandments in the law of Moses perfectly, do you? If not, then did you know that you are then guilty of breaking all of them?

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I warned you about not being like the foolish Galatians that Paul wrote about and here you are wanting to be just like them. You should heed my warning. It's as if you are ignoring what Paul wrote in Galatians 3. Heed the warning Paul gave to the Galatians. You have no excuse for not doing so.

In 1 John 5:3, to love God is to obey His commandments, which are not burdensome, so nothing in the Law of Moses is burdensome.

Why do you ignore some parts of scripture? Your doctrine should be based on ALL of scripture. Stop cherry picking scripture to form a doctrine out of it. That is what the cults do. Don't be like them.

Are you somehow not aware that the new covenant of grace has replaced the old covenant of the law of Moses? Have you never read Hebrews 8-10? And have you never read this:

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

This is referring the ordinances (rituals) of the old covenant law. Christians are not required to follow those. Jesus put an end to those burdensome ordinances and rituals by nailing them to His cross. Why are you not aware of scripture like this?

And you ignore scripture like this as well:

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

You are not recognizing that by saying you are under the law of Moses you are then under a curse! As Paul said, "for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them". And he then said "no man is justified by the law in the sight of God". Why are you thinking that you can be justified by the law in the sight of God when scripture explicitly says that you can't?

You say the law of Moses isn't a burden when James said if you break even one commandment you are guilty of breaking them all? That is a major burden!

And I'd like to see you try to tell Peter that.

Acts 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Peter referred to the law of Moses, which Jewish Christian leaders were trying to make Gentile Christians follow, as "a yoke upon the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear". Clearly, Peter considered the law of Moses to be a burden, so why don't you? Do you somehow know better than him?

 

[Soyeong]

So, you keep all 613 commandments in the law of Moses perfectly, do you? If not, then did you know that you are then guilty of breaking all of them?

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Not even Jesus kept all 613 commandments, such as the ones in regard to having a period or to having birth. The Mosaic Law came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so it never required to have perfect obedience. If we needed to have perfect obedience for some strange reason, then repenting after had sinned wouldn't do us any good, so the fact that repentance has value again demonstrates that we don't need perfect obedience. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need for perfect obedience.

In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who had sinned by showing favoritism, so he was was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience because that would have already been too late and he was not discouraging them from trying to obey it, but rather he was encouraging them to repent and to do a better job of obeying it more consistently.

I warned you about not being like the foolish Galatians that Paul wrote about and here you are wanting to be just like them. You should heed my warning. It's as if you are ignoring what Paul wrote in Galatians 3. Heed the warning Paul gave to the Galatians. You have no excuse for not doing so.

Why do you ignore some parts of scripture? Your doctrine should be based on ALL of scripture. Stop cherry picking scripture to form a doctrine out of it. That is what the cults do. Don't be like them.

I've not said anything in favor of needing to obey works of the law in order to become justified, so while you warned me, you are misapplying the verse because he are misidentifying the reason why Paul was criticizing the Galatians. I'm not ignoring Galatians, but rather I believe in the truth of all of Scripture, so I don't interpret Galatians as speaking against other parts of Scripture or vice versa. If you agree that our doctrine should be based on all of Scripture, then that includes the Mosaic Law, so I'm not the one who is cherrypicking.

Are you somehow not aware that the new covenant of grace has replaced the old covenant of the law of Moses? Have you never read Hebrews 8-10? And have you never read this:

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and the Mosaic Covenant was a covenant of grace and law. Likewise, in Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so the New Covenant is a covenant of grace and law.

The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be replaced by the New Covenant is if the New Covenant does everything that it does plus more, which is what it means to make something obsolete (Hebrews 8:13). So the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). The fault that God found with the Mosaic Covenant was not with the Torah, but with the people for not continuing in their covenant, so the solution to the problem was not to do away with the Torah, but to do away with what was hindering us from obeying it. This is why the New Covenant involves God sending the Jesus to free us from sin so that we might be free to meet the righteous requirement of the Torah (Romans 8:3-4) and spending His Spirt to lead us to obey the Torah (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

This is referring the ordinances (rituals) of the old covenant law. Christians are not required to follow those. Jesus put an end to those burdensome ordinances and rituals by nailing them to His cross. Why are you not aware of scripture like this?

The purpose of the brutality of crucifixion was to act as a deterrent, so the Romans wanted to make sure that everyone knew why someone was being crucified, which is why they would nail a handwritten ordinance to their cross that announced the charge that was against them, such as in Matthew 27:37, where they nailed handwritten ordinance the Christ's cross that announced the charge that was against him that he was the King of the Jews. This first perfectly with the list of charges that are against us being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with nailing any laws to the cross. Moreover, those verses don't specify anything about ritual laws. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from any laws, but in order to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

And you ignore scripture like this as well:

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

You are not recognizing that by saying you are under the law of Moses you are then under a curse! As Paul said, "for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them". And he then said "no man is justified by the law in the sight of God". Why are you thinking that you can be justified by the law in the sight of God when scripture explicitly says that you can't?

Why are you ignoring that spent two paragraphs in my last post addressing those verses? And why are you ignoring that I have not claimed that I think that I can be justified by works of the law in the sight of God?

You say the law of Moses isn't a burden when James said if you break even one commandment you are guilty of breaking them all? That is a major burden!

If you break any law and become a lawbreaker, then you need to repent and return to obedience, which is precisely what James was encouraging them to do.

And I'd like to see you try to tell Peter that.

Acts 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Peter referred to the law of Moses, which Jewish Christian leaders were trying to make Gentile Christians follow, as "a yoke upon the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear". Clearly, Peter considered the law of Moses to be a burden, so why don't you? Do you somehow know better than him?

In Acts 15:11, it makes it clear that the heavy burden that no one could bear was not the Mosaic Law, but a means of salvation that is an alternative to salvation by grace, namely salvation by circumcision that was proposed in Acts 15:1. If they had been referring to the Mosaic Law as being a heavy burden that no one could bear, then they would have been denying 1 John 5:3, they would have been denying the word of faith that we proclaim, they would have been calling God a liar, they would have been speaking in favor of choosing death and a curse instead of life and a blessing, and they would have been denying that the Psalms are Scripture.

I've read the Bible, so I'm not ignoring parts of it, but rather I believe that the whole Bible is true, so I don't think that different parts of Scripture should be interpreted as speaking against each other.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Not even Jesus kept all 613 commandments, such as the ones in regard to having a period or to having birth. The Mosaic Law came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so it never required to have perfect obedience.

So, what is the point of following it then? Also, those commandments were given specifically to ancient Israel. Are you an ancient Israelite who has traveled to the future? I'm sure you're not. So, why do you feel obligated to put yourself under the curse of the law? What excuse do you have for your ignorance when you can easily read things like this, which I already showed you:

Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f] 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[g] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[h] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Was Paul not clear in what he said here? Why are you not heeding what he taught? Why are you purposely putting yourself under a curse?

If we needed to have perfect obedience for some strange reason, then repenting after had sinned wouldn't do us any good, so the fact that repentance has value again demonstrates that we don't need perfect obedience.

Yes, that's correct. But, why create even more opportunities for yourself to sin than is necessary by putting yourself under the curse of the law of Moses?

In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need for perfect obedience.

You are contradicting yourself here. You first say it's not too difficult for us to obey and then at the same time you acknowledge that no one can obey it perfectly. I guess it's not actually that easy to obey then, is it.

In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who had sinned by showing favoritism, so he was was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience because that would have already been too late and he was not discouraging them from trying to obey it, but rather he was encouraging them to repent and to do a better job of obeying it more consistently.

No, that is not what he was saying. I'm sure he would agree with Paul that anyone who puts themselves under the law of Moses is putting themselves under a curse.

I've not said anything in favor of needing to obey works of the law in order to become justified, so while you warned me, you are misapplying the verse because he are misidentifying the reason why Paul was criticizing the Galatians. I'm not ignoring Galatians, but rather I believe in the truth of all of Scripture, so I don't interpret Galatians as speaking against other parts of Scripture or vice versa. If you agree that our doctrine should be based on all of Scripture, then that includes the Mosaic Law, so I'm not the one who is cherrypicking.

Why do you believe that Christians are required to follow the law of Moses when scripture says we are not? Scripture calls it putting yourself under a curse by doing that. You are cherry picking because you're certainly ripping Galatians 3 out of your Bible. That is very clear to me.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, and the Mosaic Covenant was a covenant of grace and law. Likewise, in Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so the New Covenant is a covenant of grace and law.

It has nothing to do with putting the burdensome rituals and ordinances in our minds, that's for sure. You are mistaken.

The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be replaced by the New Covenant is if the New Covenant does everything that it does plus more, which is what it means to make something obsolete (Hebrews 8:13). So the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6). The fault that God found with the Mosaic Covenant was not with the Torah, but with the people for not continuing in their covenant, so the solution to the problem was not to do away with the Torah, but to do away with what was hindering us from obeying it. This is why the New Covenant involves God sending the Jesus to free us from sin so that we might be free to meet the righteous requirement of the Torah (Romans 8:3-4) and spending His Spirt to lead us to obey the Torah (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Why do you think you are required to follow the law of Moses when scripture never says that we are? You are creating your own religion. That is what they were trying to do to the first Gentile believers and Peter had to correct that nonsense.

Acts 15:6 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” 6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Peter made it clear that requiring the Gentile Christians to keep the law of Moses was wrong. Why then do you try to say that Christians are required to keep the law of Moses? You just have no idea how much scripture you are contradicting with your view. You say you are not cherry picking but you so obviously are doing that, as I'm clearly showing here. Set yourself free from the curse of the law and join us under the new covenant of grace, friend.

The purpose of the brutality of crucifixion was to act as a deterrent, so the Romans wanted to make sure that everyone knew why someone was being crucified, which is why they would nail a handwritten ordinance to their cross that announced the charge that was against them, such as in Matthew 27:37, where they nailed handwritten ordinance the Christ's cross that announced the charge that was against him that he was the King of the Jews. This first perfectly with the list of charges that are against us being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with nailing any laws to the cross. Moreover, those verses don't specify anything about ritual laws. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from any laws, but in order to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

Again, Paul said that being under the law of Moses is a curse. So, how can anything you're saying here by true with that in mind? You are basically trying to say it's not a curse to be under the law of Moses, but Paul said it is. Let's agree with Paul and not believe whatever we might want to believe instead.

Why are you ignoring that spent two paragraphs in my last post addressing those verses? And why are you ignoring that I have not claimed that I think that I can be justified by works of the law in the sight of God?

I'm not ignoring anything. You are completely coming across that you believe that we are required to keep the law of Moses. Is that not true? If so, then don't blame me for you strongly coming across as if that is what you believe.

In Acts 15:11, it makes it clear that the heavy burden that no one could bear was not the Mosaic Law, but a means of salvation that is an alternative to salvation by grace, namely salvation by circumcision that was proposed in Acts 15:1.

Circumcision was one of the commandments of the law of Moses, so I'm not seeing your point here at all. Peter was definitely referring to the law of Moses itself there and not just circumcision, too.

If they had been referring to the Mosaic Law as being a heavy burden that no one could bear, then they would have been denying 1 John 5:3, they would have been denying the word of faith that we proclaim, they would have been calling God a liar, they would have been speaking in favor of choosing death and a curse instead of life and a blessing, and they would have been denying that the Psalms are Scripture.

What are you even talking about here? It's absolutely true that no one can bear the law of Moses because that would require keeping it perfectly. That's what you're missing. But, breaking even one of the commandments makes you guilty of breaking all of them (James 2:10).

I've read the Bible, so I'm not ignoring parts of it, but rather I believe that the whole Bible is true, so I don't think that different parts of Scripture should be interpreted as speaking against each other.

You're not recognizing which parts of the Bible still apply today and which don't. You're also not recognizing that the law of Moses NEVER applied to Gentiles.

 

[Soyeong]

So, what is the point of following it then?

the Bible begins and ends in the Garden with the Tree of Life and the point of everything in between is to teach us the way back to the Tree of Life, which is the way to have the experience of knowing God and Jesus (John 17:3), and which is the goal of the Mosaic Law. God's way is the way to know God by having the experience of being a doer of His character traits, such as in Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in God's way by being a doer of righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the Mosaic Law, which is eternal life, and which is why Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying its commandments (Luke 10:25-28, Matthew 19:17).

Also, those commandments were given specifically to ancient Israel. Are you an ancient Israelite who has traveled to the future? I'm sure you're not. So, why do you feel obligated to put yourself under the curse of the law? What excuse do you have for your ignorance when you can easily read things like this, which I already showed you:

They were specifically given to ancient Israel in order to equip them to be a light and a blessing to the nations by turning them from their wickedness and teaching them to walk in God's way in accordance with the promise and with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom. God did not given His law to His children in order to mislead us into being cursed, but rather He gave it as a precious gift for our own good to lead us into being blessed by walking in His way (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13). Moreover, the Bible repeatedly states that obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to be blessed while disobedience is the way to be cursed, such as with Romans 10:5-8 referencing Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So according to the word of faith that we proclaim, I'm taking the position that we should choose life and come under the blessing of the law while you are taking the position that we should choose death and come under the curse of the law.

Galatians 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f] 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[g] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[h] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Was Paul not clear in what he said here? Why are you not heeding what he taught? Why are you purposely putting yourself under a curse?

Indeed, Paul was clear that those who do not continue to do everything in the Book of Law come under its curse, which is why I have been speaking in favor of continuing to do that while you are purposely putting yourself under its curse by speaking against continuing to do everything in the Book of the Law. Again, I've already address these verses earlier:

In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, and in Romans 3:31 and Galatians 3:10, Paul said that our faith upholds the Torah in contrast with saying that works of the law are not of faith. According to Deuteronomy 27-28, relying on the Book of the Law is the way to be blessed while not relying on it is the way to be cursed, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 3:10 as Paul quoting from Deuteronomy 27-28 in order to support arguing that relying on the Book of the Law is the way to be cursed while not relying on it is the way to be blessed. Rather, not relying on the Book of the Law is the way to be cursed, which is why everyone who relies on works of the law instead come under that curse.

In Galatians 3:10-12, Paul connected a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 saying that the righteous shall live by faith with a quote from Leviticus 18:5 that the one who obeys the Torah will attain life by it, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as those who are living in obedience to the Torah. Likewise, in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Torah, in 1 John 3:4-7, everyone who practices righteousness in obedience to the Torah is righteous even as they are righteous, and the context of Habakkuk 2 contrasts the righteous who are living by faith with those who are not living in obedience to the Torah, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to the Torah. God is trustworthy, therefore the Torah is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obediently trusting in the Torah, it is contradictory for someone to think that we should trust God, but not His instructions, and to deny that the Torah is of faith rather than works of the law is to deny the faithfulness is the giver of the Torah. Being set free from the curse of the Torah is being set free from the curse of living in disobedience to the Torah so that we can be free to enjoy the blessing of getting to live in obedience to it.

You are contradicting yourself here. You first say it's not too difficult for us to obey and then at the same time you acknowledge that no one can obey it perfectly. I guess it's not actually that easy to obey then, is it.

If God gave His children a law that was too difficult for us to obey, then we would not be at fault for disobey it, but if there is any law that we disobey, then the reason is not because it was too difficult for us to obey, but because we chose to do our will instead of God's will. Again, God's law does not require us to have perfect obedience. The only reason why someone would need to have perfect obedience would be if they were going to give themselves to pay for the sins of the world, but the rest of us can thankfully have our sins forgiven.

No, that is not what he was saying. I'm sure he would agree with Paul that anyone who puts themselves under the law of Moses is putting themselves under a curse.

James 2:10 is the verse in the Bible that I've seen by the most times taken out of a context to support a point that has nothing to do with what he is saying in context. The Mosaic Law is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is of liberty (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:142), so when James 1:25 speaks about the perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it, he was not saying anything about the Mosaic Law that wasn't already said in the Psalms, which means that both James would agree with Paul that being under the Law of Moses is a blessing. Paul notably did not say that anyone who put themselves under the Law of Moses is putting themselves under a curse, but rather he said anyone who relies on works of the law is putting themselves under a curse.

Why do you believe that Christians are required to follow the law of Moses when scripture says we are not? Scripture calls it putting yourself under a curse by doing that. You are cherry picking because you're certainly ripping Galatians 3 out of your Bible. That is very clear to me.

On the contrary, Scripture says that it is by the Law of Moses that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20) and that we are not permitted to sin (Romans 6:15). I'm by no means ripping Galatians 3 out of the Bible, but rather I just oppose your blatant misinterpretation of it for the reasons I've stated that continue to ignore.

It has nothing to do with putting the burdensome rituals and ordinances in our minds, that's for sure. You are mistaken.

What you incorrectly consider to be burdensome rituals are part of the Torah, which Jeremiah 31:33 says that the New Covenant involves God putting on our minds. The reality is that none of the commands of the Torah are burdensome (1 John 5:3).

Why do you think you are required to follow the law of Moses when scripture never says that we are? You are creating your own religion. That is what they were trying to do to the first Gentile believers and Peter had to correct that nonsense.

Acts 15:6 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” 6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Peter made it clear that requiring the Gentile Christians to keep the law of Moses was wrong. Why then do you try to say that Christians are required to keep the law of Moses? You just have no idea how much scripture you are contradicting with your view. You say you are not cherry picking but you so obviously are doing that, as I'm clearly showing here. Set yourself free from the curse of the law and join us under the new covenant of grace, friend.

Because Scripture says that we are. Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to follow the Torah by word and by example, so I am not creating my own religion, but rather I am following his religion. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which means that Peter posting out in Acts 15:6-7 that Gentiles had heard and believed the Gospel is arguing in support of Gentiles obeying the Mosaic Law. Likewise, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the New Covenant involves God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh and seined His Spirt to lead us to obey the Mosaic Law, so what Peter argued in Acts 15:8-9 is also in support of Gentiles obeying the Mosaic Law. In Acts 15:10-11, it makes it clear that the heavy burden that no one could bear was not the Mosaic Law, but a means of salvation that is an alternative to salvation by grace, namely salvation by circumcision that was proposed by the men from Judea in Acs 15:1, so Peter agree with the Pharisees from among the believers in Acts 15:5 that Gentiles should obey the Mosaic Law, but not in order to become saved. By speaking again obeying the Torah, you are contradicting over all of Scripture while I am not contradicting any of it. Moreover, you neglected to address what I said about Hebrews 8.

Again, Paul said that being under the law of Moses is a curse. So, how can anything you're saying here by true with that in mind? You are basically trying to say it's not a curse to be under the law of Moses, but Paul said it is. Let's agree with Paul and not believe whatever we might want to believe instead.

Again Paul never said that it is a curse, so let's agree with him. Your handwaving does not address the fact that you are incorrectly interpreting Colossians 2:14.

I'm not ignoring anything. You are completely coming across that you believe that we are required to keep the law of Moses. Is that not true? If so, then don't blame me for you strongly coming across as if that is what you believe.

For some reason you are trying to ignore what I've said about Galatians 3. Yes, it is my position that we are required to keep the Law of Moses, though not in order to become saved.

Circumcision was one of the commandments of the law of Moses, so I'm not seeing your point here at all. Peter was definitely referring to the law of Moses itself there and not just circumcision, too.

The reason that God commanded circumcision was not in order to become saved, so the Jerusalem Council upheld the Mosaic Law by correctly ruling against requiring circumcision for an incorrect reason.

What are you even talking about here? It's absolutely true that no one can bear the law of Moses because that would require keeping it perfectly. That's what you're missing. But, breaking even one of the commandments makes you guilty of breaking all of them (James 2:10).

Again, in Romans 10:5-8, it refers to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not to difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so you are denying the truth of both of those passages as well as 1 John 5:3. We are not required to keep the Mosaic Law perfectly and even if someone managed to do that, then they still wouldn't earn their righteousness as a wage (Romans 4:1-5), so that is a fundamental misunderstanding of why we should obey it. If we break any law and become a lawbreaker, then we need to repent and return to obedience, which is precisely what James was encouraging them to do.

You're not recognizing which parts of the Bible still apply today and which don't. You're also not recognizing that the law of Moses NEVER applied to Gentiles.

In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they teach against obeying the Mosaic Law, so if you think that the NT authors did that, then according to God you should consider them to be false prophets, but I consider them to be servants of God, so I don't interpret them as doing that. The position that the Law of Moses never applied to Gentiles is the position that Gentiles don't need to repent from doing what God has revealed to be sin, that Gentiles don't need salvation from sin, that Gentiles don't need the Gospel message, that Gentiles don't need grace, and that Gentiles don't need Jesus to have given himself to redeem us from all lawlessness, but the reality is that Gentiles need all of those things.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Indeed, Paul was clear that those who do not continue to do everything in the Book of Law come under its curse, which is why I have been speaking in favor of continuing to do that while you are purposely putting yourself under its curse by speaking against continuing to do everything in the Book of the Law.

You are completely missing the point and appear to have no understanding of God's grace. It appears that you think you can earn your own salvation by works, but scripture says that is impossible.

You say I'm putting myself under the curse of the law? Hardly! You are very sadly mistaken. If you want to insist on being under the law of Moses YOU are under its curse because keeping it requires you to keep ALL of it, which you can't do! Again, if you break even one of its commandments you break all of them! (James 2:10). Please ask God for wisdom about this (James 1:5-7).

 

[Soyeong]

You are completely missing the point and appear to have no understanding of God's grace. It appears that you think you can earn your own salvation by works, but scripture says that is impossible.
You say I'm putting myself under the curse of the law? Hardly! You are very sadly mistaken. If you want to insist on being under the law of Moses YOU are under its curse because keeping it requires you to keep ALL of it, which you can't do! Again, if you break even one of its commandments you break all of them! (James 2:10). Please ask God for wisdom about this (James 1:5-7).

According to Deuteronomy 30:11-20, which one of us is promoting choosing life and a blessing and which one of us is promoting choosing death and a curse? Do you agree or disagree with this passage and do you think that Paul and James agreed or disagreed with this passage?

I’ve said nothing in support of earning our salvation. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, which again is eternal life and salvation by grace through faith. In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so God was gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to be doers of good works, so while Paul denied that we can earn our salvation as the result of our works, being a doer of good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is nevertheless intrinsically part of our gift of salvation. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to be doers of what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce being a doer of what is ungodly, so we are not required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to be doers of those works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is intrinsically part of His gift of salvation. Our obedience to the Mosaic Law has nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation from God, but rather God graciously teaching us to be doers of it is the way that He is giving us His gift of salvation.

Your continue to blatantly rip James 2:10 out of context in order to try to support a point that has nothing to do with the point that he was making in context.

It is unwise for you to try to turn part of God’s word against each other instead of accepting the truth of the entire Bible.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

According to Deuteronomy 30:11-20, which one of us is promoting choosing life and a blessing and which one of us is promoting choosing death and a curse? Do you agree or disagree with this passage and do you think that Paul and James agreed or disagreed with this passage?

I’ve said nothing in support of earning our salvation. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, which again is eternal life and salvation by grace through faith. In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so God was gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to be doers of good works, so while Paul denied that we can earn our salvation as the result of our works, being a doer of good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is nevertheless intrinsically part of our gift of salvation. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to be doers of what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce being a doer of what is ungodly, so we are not required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to be doers of those works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is intrinsically part of His gift of salvation. Our obedience to the Mosaic Law has nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation from God, but rather God graciously teaching us to be doers of it is the way that He is giving us His gift of salvation.

Your continue to blatantly rip James 2:10 out of context in order to try to support a point that has nothing to do with the point that he was making in context.

It is unwise for you to try to turn part of God’s word against each other instead of accepting the truth of the entire Bible.

I am not doing that, so if you are just going to lie like this, then we're done. The law of Moses was given to ancient Israel to follow, not Christians. That is a fact. And, why pick and choose which parts of it you will follow? Is that what you think the law of Moses is all about? Thank God that Jesus narrowed it all down to 2 commandments, neither of which requires us to follow the rituals and ordinances of the law of Moses.

 

[Grip Docility]

I’ve said nothing in support of earning our salvation.

I am not a Sabbatarian and believe that the Death of Jesus and His provisional Holy Spirit of He and His Father seal me to salvation.

You keep the Law, follow the Law, feel compelled to display your Love to Jesus through obedience to Moses.

Are you more saved than myself, according to your beliefs?

 

[Soyeong]

I am not doing that,

It is not a surprise that you refused to answer my questions because if you did it would completely undermine your position. It is absurd to interpret Paul as speaking against what he said is the word of faith that we proclaim and to interpret him as quoting from what he consider to be Scripture in order to support a point that is arguing against what he was quoting from.

so if you are just going to lie like this, then we're done.

I've not lied. The Torah is truth (Psalms 119:142) and Jesus embodied the truth by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to it (John 14:6), so I am promoting truth while your position is opposed to truth.

The law of Moses was given to ancient Israel to follow, not Christians. That is a fact.

Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and being a Christian is about being a follower of Christ, not about refusing to follow him.

And, why pick and choose which parts of it you will follow? Is that what you think the law of Moses is all about?

I don't.

Thank God that Jesus narrowed it all down to 2 commandments, neither of which requires us to follow the rituals and ordinances of the law of Moses.

In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus was not asked about which were the only commandments that we should follow, but about which was the greatest commandment, and the existence of the greatest two implies the existence of other commandments that are not the greatest. Everything in the Mosaic Law is either in in regard to how to love God or how to love our neighbor, which is why Jesus said that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them. So the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey all of the commandments that hang on them, for example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't break the Sabbath or commit murder, idolatry, adultery, theft, rape, favoritism, kidnapping, and so forth for the rest of the Mosaic Law. The greatest two commandments are a lot easier said than done, so thankfully God gave us all of His other commandments to explain what it looks like to correctly obey them. Someone who was correctly living in obedience to the greatest two commandments would be indistinguishable from someone who was correctly living in obedience to the Mosaic Law because they would both be following the same example that Jesus set for us to follow. In Matthew 24:12-14, Jesus said that because of lawlessness the love of many will grow cold, so that does not leave any room to think we should just obey God's command to love, but not His other commands that explain how to do that.

 

[Soyeong]

I am not a Sabbatarian and believe that the Death of Jesus

In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross, which includes keeping the Sabbath holy.

and His provisional Holy Spirit of He

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, and in Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth. In Joh 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in Romans 3:20, it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is. In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law. In Galatians 2:16-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's character that are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 30:6), and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey the Mosaic Law. All of this again includes the command to keep the Sabbath holy.

and His Father seal me to salvation.

Jesus saves us from our sins (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of our obedience to it, being a doer of it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically the content of his gift of saving us form not being a doer of it. For example, Jesus leading us to keep the Sabbath holy is intrinsically the way that he is saving us from not keeping the Sabbath holy.

You keep the Law, follow the Law, feel compelled to display your Love to Jesus through obedience to Moses.

The way to love God is by being a doer of His character traits, such as the way to love justice is by being a doer of justice. The Bible often uses the same terms to describe the character of God as it does to describe the character of the Mosaic Law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), which is because it is God's instructions for how to be a doer of His character traits. In other words, everything that God commanded in the Mosaic Law was specifically commanded to teach us how to love a different aspect of His character, which is why the Bible repeatedly connects our love for God with our obedience to His commandments in both the OT and the NT. For example, in John 14:23-24, Jesus said that if we love him him, then we will obey his teachings, if we don't love him, then we will not obey his teachings, and his teachings are not his own, but that of the Father. The way to love the Father is exactly the same as the way to love the Son because the Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact image of His character (Hebrews 1:3).

Are you more saved than myself, according to your beliefs?

Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while we continued live in sin, so there must be an aspect of our salvation that we are experiencing in he present by being a doer of the Mosaic Law. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not required to do those works as the result of having firs been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to be doers of those works is the aspect of our salvation that we are experiencing in the present, so those who refuse to experience being a doers of aspects of the Mosaic Law are depriving themselves of those aspects of God's gift of salvation. In other words, obedience to the Mosaic Law has nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation from God, but rather God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of it is the way that He is giving us His gift of salvation.