FBI identifies Trump rally shooter as Thomas Matthew Crooks <--- Thread is about the perpetrator, the crime, and the motivation, not Trump

[Belk]

It's the same thing with accusing entire people groups of being groomers and worse. As seen repeatedly on this very board. Rhetoric which permeates conservative circles. The non subtle subtext of using that type of language is that these people shouldn't be allowed to exist in society. Along with throwing words like genocide and murder around when talking about people's private health care decisions. What a surprise when someone's actions follow the message that is sent

I had not even thought of that. Good point.

 

[bèlla]

Coincidences happen, rather more often than people would think. The classroom was chosen for the ad because of the teacher, not because Crooks was in it.

There are no coincidences in finance. Everything is calculated.

~bella

 

[bèlla]

Along with throwing words like genocide and murder around when talking about people's private health care decisions. What a surprise when someone's actions follow the message that is sent

I heard the murder spiel during the pandemic and was shocked. My healthcare decisions are none one's concern and I'm not required to abide by their wishes. Hearing that from a stranger was crazy.

~bella

 

[expos4ever]

That Hitler guy ruined everything.

As the late, great comedian Norm Macdonald said, "the more I learn about this Hitler fella, the less I care for him".

 

[essentialsaltes]

Crooks' father told agents he thought son took rifle to shooting range and reported him missing at 11 p.m.​

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​

The US Secret Service was “solely responsible” for the implementation and execution of security at the site of Saturday’s rally for former President Donald Trump’s campaign, Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle told CNN’s Whitney Wild in an interview Tuesday evening.

In a prior interview with ABC News, Cheatle had said that local law enforcement was responsible for the building where 20-year-old Thomas Matthew Crooks climbed onto the roof and fired shots at Trump at his rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, on Saturday.

“What I was trying to stress was that we just divided up areas of responsibility, and they provided support to those areas of responsibility,” Cheatle said of local law enforcement, adding that the agency “couldn’t do our job without them.”

 

[RDKirk]

There are no coincidences in finance. Everything is calculated.

~bella

Lots of unintended consequences happen in finance that can't be included in calculations. Like when a company collapses and takes their pension fund with them. Or an attack on a Saudi minister sends oil prices skyrocketing.

 

[rjs330]

Well, then it's okay to say that you're a threat to democracy when you try to steal an election and have a very friendly set of judges hand you a bunch of questionable legal decisions including immunity from a lot of prosecution.

He didn't try and steal an election. I'm guessing there are laws against that sort of thing. Was he found guilty of it? Did I miss that somewhere?

 

[Arcangl86]

There are no coincidences in finance. Everything is calculated.

~bella

Do you think they somehow knew that Crooks would be newsworthy two years later?

 

[iluvatar5150]

He didn't try and steal an election.

He made up bogus allegations about widespread fraud, then had a bunch of his aides and lawyers try to get alternate electors to submit phony certificates of ascertainment to Pence, hoping that Pence would count them (and thus, give Trump a win) instead of the real ones that went for Biden.

If that's not trying to steal an election, what is it?

I'm guessing there are laws against that sort of thing.

There are.

Was he found guilty of it? Did I miss that somewhere?

Many people are currently being prosecuted for it, including Trump in Georgia. It's also part of Jack Smith's investigation.

Trump fake electors plot - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[RDKirk]

Crooks' father told agents he thought son took rifle to shooting range and reported him missing at 11 p.m.​

---

​

The US Secret Service was “solely responsible” for the implementation and execution of security at the site of Saturday’s rally for former President Donald Trump’s campaign, Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle told CNN’s Whitney Wild in an interview Tuesday evening.

In a prior interview with ABC News, Cheatle had said that local law enforcement was responsible for the building where 20-year-old Thomas Matthew Crooks climbed onto the roof and fired shots at Trump at his rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, on Saturday.

“What I was trying to stress was that we just divided up areas of responsibility, and they provided support to those areas of responsibility,” Cheatle said of local law enforcement, adding that the agency “couldn’t do our job without them.”

"I am the boss of everything!"
"Well, maybe I'm not the boss of that thing that went wrong right there. That thing. I'm not the boss of that."

I kind of like this review of the situation, and I've liked some things from "Task and Purpose" in the past.

 

[RDKirk]

Do you think they somehow knew that Crooks would be newsworthy two years later?

The camera merely brushes over Crooks, at that.

 

[rjs330]

In other words its justified when you guys do it. Enough said

It's justified when it actually is occurring. So if you are killing a small human being it's called murder. If you are not then you are not a murderer.

It's okay to call someone Hitler if they are Hitler. It's not okay to call someone Hitler if they are not Hitler.

 

[Belk]

It's justified when it actually is occurring. So if you are killing a small human being it's called murder. If you are not then you are not a murderer.

It's okay to call someone Hitler if they are Hitler. It's not okay to call someone Hitler if they are not Hitler.

Keep them justifications coming. It is OK when we do it but not when you do.

 

[rjs330]

He made up bogus allegations about widespread fraud,

No he made allegations. So did a lot of people. The process was beyond anything that had occurred before. Seemed like it was ripe for fraud. It needed investigating. Do I think he went about it the right way? No, but the allegations seemed reasonable at the time

then had a bunch of his aides and lawyers try to get alternate electors to submit phony certificates of ascertainment to Pence, hoping that Pence would count them (and thus, give Trump a win) instead of the real ones that went for Biden.

Oooo, sounds bad. I guess we'll have to wait to see if he's guilty. Until then it's only your opinion.

 

[rjs330]

Keep them justifications coming. It is OK when we do it but not when you do.

There is truth and there is lies.

Fir example it's okay to call someone a liar when they are one. Like Trump for example. You can call him a liar, because he lies.

Calling him Hitler is not okay because he's not Hitler. Calling him a facist is not okay because he's not a facist.

I'm really not sure why you are having difficulties with this.

 

[Belk]

There is truth and there is lies.

Fir example it's okay to call someone a liar when they are one. Like Trump for example. You can call him a liar, because he lies.

Calling him Hitler is not okay because he's not Hitler. Calling him a facist is not okay because he's not a facist.

I'm really not sure why you are having difficulties with this.

That is not the piece I have difficulty with. The piece I have difficulty with is the self serving justifications used to excuse the rhetoric used by the right while condemning the left.

ie "baby murder", "groomer", "traitor". All of which I have seem used on this board and in right wing media.

 

[iluvatar5150]

No he made allegations. So did a lot of people. The process was beyond anything that had occurred before. Seemed like it was ripe for fraud. It needed investigating. Do I think he went about it the right way? No, but the allegations seemed reasonable at the time

So "reasonable" that his lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, was disbarred in NY (and likely DC, too) for making them? So "reasonable" that Fox News settled just one of their defamation cases for $787 million?

Oooo, sounds bad. I guess we'll have to wait to see if he's guilty. Until then it's only your opinion.

What part of that is my opinion? That folks on his team drummed up fake electors and tried to submit them to Pence?

 

[rjs330]

We still know little to nothing about the shooter.He obviously hated Trump. But we don't know why. What we have been told is this guy is practically a ghost. We are told he is a registered Republican who donated to a liberal pac. He wore camo clothes and was a loner who was cheered at his graduation. But no one has any idea why he hated Trump enough to try and kill him.

 

[essentialsaltes]

We still know little to nothing about the shooter.He obviously hated Trump.

We don't even know that.

 

[rjs330]

That is not the piece I have difficulty with. The piece I have difficulty with is the self serving justifications used to excuse the rhetoric used by the right while condemning the left.

ie "baby murder", "groomer", "traitor". All of which I have seem used on this board and in right wing media.

I actually haven't condemned the left fie rhetoric. I have condemned the left for being so upset at Trumps rhetoric and saying nothing about their own. Do you condemn the rhetoric calling Trump Hitler? Do you condemn calling him a facist and a Dictator and there will never be another election again if he is elected? Do you condemn that?