Project 2025 is NOT the Trump plan - do not get mislead

[iluvatar5150]

you literally made the claim:

"Trump's tax law changes brought in less money to the IRS"

and I showed you with official statistics that it was incorrect

less money was not brought into the IRS. And revenue was not "flat" --it went from 3.27 trillion to 3.46 trillion in 2019, before back peddling a bit during the pandemic, after the whole economy was shut down.

Deficits do not double because of tax cuts alone --they are primarily a consequence of federal spending. Federal outlays exploded under Trump, primarily due to Pandemic stimulus and programs, and continued to rise dramatically under Biden, especially in his first year. Spending has decreased a bit in the last couple of years, but only because we aren't paying people to stay home.

Federal outlays as percentage of GDP under Trump in his first 3 years in office average 20.5% (then exploded because of the pandemic)

Federal outlays as percentage of GDP under Biden have averaged over 24%

Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

Receipts, outlays, and surplus or deficit in dollars and as a percent of GDP from 1940 to 2029.

www.taxpolicycenter.org

We don't have a revenue problem, we have a serious spending problem, and issues with entitlements. The idea that some tax cuts created all of this is mathematically false, and a fake left-wing talking-point. Biden is spending a lot more money than Trump

Now do we need to raise more tax revenue? Absolutely. We can hike income taxes, adjust capital gains for high earners, remove some tax breaks, etc. --but unless we get spending under control, ALL the new revenue will be spent.

Your own page shows that federal receipts dropped from 17.1% of GDP in FY2017 (the fiscal year in which Trump took office) to 16.3% of GDP in FY2018 (the first year in which the Trump tax cuts went into effect).

That chart is flat because federal spending (outlays) exploded under Trump and Biden, not because of tax cuts

No.

First, the chart to which I linked showed receipts, not deficits. RECEIPTS as a percentage of GDP were flat. If outlays had exploded as you claimed, then they should've caused receipts to go up somewhat, too, because absent any corresponding tax cuts, spending would've triggered more economic activity, which would've triggered more taxes.

Second, you've got your timing wrong. Receipts as a percentage of GDP were flat FY18-FY20. Outlays didn't spike until FY20.

 

[Pommer]

The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank which has been around and also been influential for more than a few decades. The Heritage Foundation is not an extremist organization.

Yes, the Heritage Foundation came up with what eventually became the PPACA (Obamacare), in the early 1990s.

 

[NxNW]

They who?

Republican Trump supporters.

 

[DaisyDay]

This is Trumps agenda ... Agenda 2047 NOT 2025

Agenda 47, no "20" because he, if elected, will be the 47th president just as he used to be "45".

 

[DaisyDay]

It is very easy - both Trump's policies and Project 2025 are very accessible and easily found. Do you own home work and see the difference - do not take my word - nor anyone else - think for yourself - it's the best way.
Right and neither one as supporting or endorsing Project 2025.

No, Trump stated that he disagrees with "some of the things" - which things specifically?
Trump stated that "some of the things they’re saying are absolutely ridiculous and abysmal" - which things exactly?

Trump also said that he didn't know anything about it but he is on video praising the Heritage Foundation and 80% of the folk who devised it are former staff from his White House time.

As badly as the left wants to make the connect - reality it is - it is not there. Not endorsed or supported.

Okay, maybe not at this moment, but he had before and probably will again. That's what's so delightful about Donald, you never know what he will deny or confirm from one minute to the next.

 

[DaisyDay]

Yes, please be intellectually honest
(warning - potty words from Trump)

Trump lied again.

Bingo!

 

[Vambram]

No, Trump stated that he disagrees with "some of the things" - which things specifically?
Trump stated that "some of the things they’re saying are absolutely ridiculous and abysmal" - which things exactly?

Trump also said that he didn't know anything about it but he is on video praising the Heritage Foundation and 80% of the folk who devised it are former staff from his White House time.


Okay, maybe not at this moment, but he had before and probably will again. That's what's so delightful about Donald, you never know what he will deny or confirm from one minute to the next.

https://www.axios.com/2024/07/10/trump-undecided-voters-plan-election-2024

Perhaps this analysis from Axios.com will interest you.

 

[SimplyMe]

you literally made the claim:

"Trump's tax law changes brought in less money to the IRS"

and I showed you with official statistics that it was incorrect

less money was not brought into the IRS. And revenue was not "flat" --it went from 3.27 trillion to 3.46 trillion in 2019, before back peddling a bit during the pandemic, after the whole economy was shut down.

Again, the increases were under 1% -- and receipts as a percentage of GDP (as you've been shown) dropped.

Deficits do not double because of tax cuts alone --they are primarily a consequence of federal spending. Federal outlays exploded under Trump, primarily due to Pandemic stimulus and programs, and continued to rise dramatically under Biden, especially in his first year. Spending has decreased a bit in the last couple of years, but only because we aren't paying people to stay home.

Federal outlays as percentage of GDP under Trump in his first 3 years in office average 20.5% (then exploded because of the pandemic)

Sorry, outlays "exploded" under Trump prior to the pandemic. In Obama's last year in office, deficits were 500 billion -- still way too high but they had dropped quite a bit. The deficit in 2019 -- the last year before the pandemic -- the deficit was a trillion dollars. Even prior to the pandemic, Trump had doubled deficit spending. This was in a strong economy, once Trump claimed was the "best every" -- the deficit should have been cut then.

Federal outlays as percentage of GDP under Biden have averaged over 24%

Yes, Trump's last year causes a recession (with the pandemic, which Trump did not respond well to). Outlays, as a percentage of GDP, always drastically increase during recessions since there are less tax receipts.

Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

Receipts, outlays, and surplus or deficit in dollars and as a percent of GDP from 1940 to 2029.

www.taxpolicycenter.org

We don't have a revenue problem, we have a serious spending problem, and issues with entitlements. The idea that some tax cuts created all of this is mathematically false, and a fake left-wing talking-point. Biden is spending a lot more money than Trump

Now do we need to raise more tax revenue? Absolutely. We can hike income taxes, adjust capital gains for high earners, remove some tax breaks, etc. --but unless we get spending under control, ALL the new revenue will be spent.

Again, Trump never cut spending, he increased spending while cutting revenues (and to be clear this time, as a percentage of GDP) before the pandemic. From what Trump appears to be saying, he'll do the same if he is elected again -- as he is talking about a lot of spending that will increase the debt even worse.

 

[FenderTL5]

“I know nothing about Project 2025,” Trump posted on his social media website. “I have no idea who is behind it.

Okay

I disagree with some of the things they’re saying and some of the things they’re saying are absolutely ridiculous and abysmal.

Which is it?
One or the other is a lie.

You can also plainly see that the Project 2025 is not from the Trump Campaign nor is it from the Republican National Convention. Nor is Project 2025 endorsed by Trump nor the Republican Party.

This is true... but

Please - let's be intellectually honest .

Yes, let's do that.
If history is any indicator Trump and the GOP will adopt a significant portion of the Heritage Foundation's policy recomendations.

 

[rturner76]

Are you aware that all politicians lie?

1) Does that make it an acceptable practice?
2) All politicians tell some lies but when it comes to former president Trump, most of what he says is lies.

Trump's lies are dangerous and could possibly affect something like a lawful election

Like the title of this article "Legacy of Lies. How Trump Weaponized Misinformation"

"The president advanced falsehoods on everything from the mundane to what some called the "big lie" -- that the 2020 election was stolen, a repeated assertion that ended in the Capitol siege."

Legacy of lies -- how Trump weaponized mistruths during his presidency

Despite reporters' best fact-checking efforts, the truth became a matter of debate under the Trump administration. Here's a look at four notable falsehoods from Trump.

abcnews.go.com

Some lies are more dangerous than others. It's like the way he lied about the election being rigged. That got his followers considering treasonous actions like storming the Capital. If that had been the majority of people of color who ran the representatives into their offices under police protection, they would still be executing people and handing out life sentences.

 

[Hans Blaster]

a university is a "charity"

lol, ok bro

Try again "bro".

I'm sure the college presidents making 1.2 million a year and all the other people making bank from all the money rolling in appreciate your support

They should have been televangelists. It would pay better.

more hilarious levels of hypocrisy from Democrats

What Democrats are you speaking of now? I ain't one.

 

[Merrill]

Again, the increases were under 1% -- and receipts as a percentage of GDP (as you've been shown) dropped.



Sorry, outlays "exploded" under Trump prior to the pandemic. In Obama's last year in office, deficits were 500 billion -- still way too high but they had dropped quite a bit. The deficit in 2019 -- the last year before the pandemic -- the deficit was a trillion dollars. Even prior to the pandemic, Trump had doubled deficit spending. This was in a strong economy, once Trump claimed was the "best every" -- the deficit should have been cut then.



Yes, Trump's last year causes a recession (with the pandemic, which Trump did not respond well to). Outlays, as a percentage of GDP, always drastically increase during recessions since there are less tax receipts.



Again, Trump never cut spending, he increased spending while cutting revenues (and to be clear this time, as a percentage of GDP) before the pandemic. From what Trump appears to be saying, he'll do the same if he is elected again -- as he is talking about a lot of spending that will increase the debt even worse.

And when did Biden cut spending?

As I showed, outlays are higher under Biden now than they were in 2019.

I am not defending Trump here --he spent too much money, was too generous with tax cuts. He didn't do enough to reduce spending and balance the books

but you cannot defend Biden on this--he spent even more money (ARA, IRA, etc.), and our debt-to-gdp ratio is over 122% almost 4 years into his term. He hasn't done a thing to control spending

this is a bipartisan problem: neither party wants to seriously get spending and entitlements under control. Do we need tax increases? yes, but this have to be pared with spending reductions

 

[Merrill]

Try again "bro".

They should have been televangelists.

What Democrats are you speaking of now? I ain't one.

so Harvard and other schools get to run their hedge funds and pay their presidents millions of dollars in salaries (and pay admins 300-400k a year), and not get taxed on it

meanwhile liberals scream about CEOs and televangelists making too much money and not paying enough in taxes. At least companies actually pay taxes

I suppose you think these salaries are OK for "charities"

15 college presidents who've been paid millionaire salaries

Here are some university presidents who earn millionaire salaries. The highest paid college chief earned 50 times more than professors in one year.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Vambram]

1) Does that make it an acceptable practice?
2) All politicians tell some lies but when it comes to former president Trump, most of what he says is lies.

Trump's lies are dangerous and could possibly affect something like a lawful election

Like the title of this article "Legacy of Lies. How Trump Weaponized Misinformation"

"The president advanced falsehoods on everything from the mundane to what some called the "big lie" -- that the 2020 election was stolen, a repeated assertion that ended in the Capitol siege."

Legacy of lies -- how Trump weaponized mistruths during his presidency

Despite reporters' best fact-checking efforts, the truth became a matter of debate under the Trump administration. Here's a look at four notable falsehoods from Trump.

abcnews.go.com

Some lies are more dangerous than others. It's like the way he lied about the election being rigged. That got his followers considering treasonous actions like storming the Capital. If that had been the majority of people of color who ran the representatives into their offices under police protection, they would still be executing people and handing out life sentences.

For everything that you believe Trump has lied about, I could point you over to at least double the amount of times Joe Biden has lied and also told half-truths. In my opinion, Joe Biden has lied more often than any other POTUS in recent memory.

 

[Bradskii]

I am not defending Trump here --

No. You were praising him.

'Federal revenues under the Trump administration hit record levels before the pandemic hit'.

'Trump changed that with his tax law changes. It brought in a lot of money to the IRS'.

 

[frienden thalord]

I believe that only the liberals would find portions of that project to be unpopular with them. I believe that the American public is NOT nearly as liberal as the Democratic Party wants them to be.

Oh i pray that to be true .

 

[frienden thalord]

For everything that you believe Trump has lied about, I could point you over to at least double the amount of times Joe Biden has lied and also told half-truths. In my opinion, Joe Biden has lied more often than any other POTUS in recent memory.

Rather odd that a lot of media fact checks , AINT facts my friend .
I am sure trump has lied , they all do . BUT NOT nearly as much as they claim he has .
but speaking of lies and twisted truth
you know who has them all beat . hands down , no competition . MAINSTREAM NEWS . they the worst of all .
not a politician runs even a close second to that entity .

 

[frienden thalord]

I believe that there is a lot of Project 2025 that is not legitimately extreme at all.

What is project twenty twenty five . just tonight is the first time i have heard about this .

 

[Vambram]

What is project twenty twenty five . just tonight is the first time i have heard about this .

There are links about this on the first page of this thread. In a nutshell, it's a plan and a document written by members of The Heritage Foundation which is a conservative think tank.

 

[frienden thalord]

LoL. I believe that, if lying was an Olympic sport, Joe Biden would have earned far more gold medals over the last 12 years than all of the rest of the politicians combined.

and yet not even BIDEN can come even close to mainstream news . they the most crooked twisters of all .
I think our mainstream news is probably more dishonest than CHINESE NEWS or RUSSIAN news combined .
we got the aboslute worst news . ITS all agenda driven . Heck at least the chinese and russians know they communist owned .
Crooked news network . Cant trust a word that comes out their mouth .