Project 2025 is NOT the Trump plan - do not get mislead

[Merrill]

Thats a goal I would definitely agree with. And based on Trumps past record, I would believe he supports it.

But "Trump writes" is worth zero on its own. We need to look at Trumps record, including his staffing decisions, to decide what to believe about him. And former staffers seem to have their fingers all over Project 2025.

I do agree that Trump made bad staffing decisions during his tenure, and that anything a politician says should be met with scrutiny and suspicion

but you can't have it both ways: you can't say Trump is going to embark on a massive project to redesign the American government, and then say "well, he says a lot of things, and really can't get anything done" --has to be one or the other

 

[BCP1928]

I do agree that Trump made bad staffing decisions during his tenure, and that anything a politician says should be met with scrutiny and suspicion

but you can't have it both ways: you can't say Trump is going to embark on a massive project to redesign the American government, and then say "well, he says a lot of things, and really can't get anything done" --has to be one or the other

Actually, its two separate questions. For one thing, the 2025 Project is a profoundly disturbing document and Trump is right to be shy of it. The other question is, will his supporter approve of it?

 

[ozso]

Something a private extremist organization came up with on their own, doesn't have anything to do with the price of tea in Chi-na.

 

[BCP1928]

Something a private extremist organization came up with on their own, doesn't have anything to do with the price of tea in Chi-na.

It's reassuring to see a conservative denounce Hillsdale College as an "extremist organization." Maybe there is hope after all.

 

[durangodawood]

I do agree that Trump made bad staffing decisions during his tenure, and that anything a politician says should be met with scrutiny and suspicion

but you can't have it both ways: you can't say Trump is going to embark on a massive project to redesign the American government, and then say "well, he says a lot of things, and really can't get anything done" --has to be one or the other

But I didnt say he really cant get anything done. He can do a lot of things. You just cant tell what theyre going to be by what he says. His staffing record is solid evidence we can use otoh.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Something a private extremist organization

<files away for later>

 

[wing2000]

I do agree that Trump made bad staffing decisions during his tenure, and that anything a politician says should be met with scrutiny and suspicion

but you can't have it both ways: you can't say Trump is going to embark on a massive project to redesign the American government, and then say "well, he says a lot of things, and really can't get anything done" --has to be one or the other

Well, that is the issue no? Donald Trump says a lot of things. Some things he will do....others are for sheer entertainment value for his core. The only option IMO is to take him at his word.

However, in the case of Project 2025 (which btw, started years ago) former Trump administration officials are actively taking steps to be ready for day 1 of a Trump presidency. All of which has been quoted from these same officials previously in this very thread and others before it.

It's only in the last few days, that Trump has called attention to Project 2025, disavowing any knowledge of it. It's obviously a campaign ploy...

 

[wing2000]

Something a private extremist organization came up with on their own, doesn't have anything to do with the price of tea in Chi-na.

From their website:

The 2025 Presidential Transition Project is being organized by The Heritage Foundation and builds off Heritage’s longstanding “Mandate for Leadership,” which has been highly influential for presidential administrations since the Reagan era. Most recently, the Trump administration relied heavily on Heritage’s “Mandate” for policy guidance, embracing nearly two-thirds of Heritage’s proposals within just one year in office.

Paul Dans, former chief of staff at the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) during the Trump administration, serves as the director of the 2025 Presidential Transition Project. Spencer Chretien, former special assistant to the president and associate director of Presidential Personnel, serves as associate director of the project.

[...but Trump "has no idea who is behind it" ].

The 2025 Presidential Transition Project paves the way for an effective conservative Administration based on four pillars: a policy agenda, Presidential Personnel Database, Presidential Administration Academy, and playbook for the first 180 days of the next Administration.

About Project 2025 | Project 2025

The actions of liberal politicians in Washington have created a desperate need and unique opportunity for conservatives to start undoing the damage the Left has wrought and build a better country for all Americans in 2025. It is not enough for conservatives to win elections. If we are going to...

www.project2025.org

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Something a private extremist organization came up with on their own, doesn't have anything to do with the price of tea in Chi-na.

Extremist organization? There are definitely a couple organizations on the advisory board that I would consider "extremist" (like Moms for Liberty and Tea Party Patriots), but a lot of them are pretty mainstream conservative think tanks and policy groups - Heritage Foundation, ACLJ, Alabama Policy Institute, etc.

 

[ozso]

Extremist organization? There are definitely a couple organizations on the advisory board that I would consider "extremist" (like Moms for Liberty and Tea Party Patriots), but a lot of them are pretty mainstream conservative think tanks and policy groups - Heritage Foundation, ACLJ, Alabama Policy Institute, etc.

Then why are some folks knickers in a bunch?

 

[ozso]

@wing2000 I'd reply to your post, but since it's all in quote boxes I'm left with a blank field.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Then why are some folks knickers in a bunch?

Because mainstream 'conservatism' is now extreme. As laid out in Project 2025.

 

[ozso]

Because mainstream 'conservatism' is now extreme. As laid out in Project 2025.

Yeah, that's why I said something a private extremist organization came up with on their own, doesn't have anything to do with the price of tea in Chi-na.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Yeah, that's why I said something a private extremist organization came up with on their own, doesn't have anything to do with the price of tea in Chi-na.

Again, these are not "extremist" organizations. They're mainstream conservative think tanks, who conservative politicians frequently look to for policy advice. The fact that these mainstream organizations are backing such an extreme position is deeply concerning when it comes to considering the future of the Republican party in the US. And the fact that they came up with it "on their own" is a bit disingenuous, given the number of current and former Trump advisors involved. If a bunch of the authors of Project 2025 end up with roles in a new Trump administration, you can bet dollars to donuts that they'll be advocating for their beliefs.

 

[ozso]

Again, these are not "extremist" organizations. They're mainstream conservative think tanks, who conservative politicians frequently look to for policy advice. The fact that these mainstream organizations are backing such an extreme position is deeply concerning when it comes to considering the future of the Republican party in the US. And the fact that they came up with it "on their own" is a bit disingenuous, given the number of current and former Trump advisors involved. If a bunch of the authors of Project 2025 end up with roles in a new Trump administration, you can bet dollars to donuts that they'll be advocating for their beliefs.

I'm a bit confused here. @essentialsaltes wrote: "Because mainstream 'conservatism' is now extreme. As laid out in Project 2025" and you agreed with him. We're basically saying the same thing and you're arguing with me and agreeing with him

 

[Vambram]

Because mainstream 'conservatism' is now extreme. As laid out in Project 2025.

Only the left wing liberals believe mainstream conservatives are now extreme.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I'm a bit confused here. @essentialsaltes wrote: "Because mainstream 'conservatism' is now extreme. As laid out in Project 2025" and you agreed with him. We're basically saying the same thing and you're arguing with me and agreeing with him

Dismissing the Heritage Foundation as an extremist organization belies its actual influence on conservative politics and Trump in particular. Trump's initial list of judges to consider for SCOTUS had considerable overlap with Heritage's own list. And the Trump Administration was composed of a lot of Heritage people, and when Trump was out, other Trump Administration officials then moved into Heritage.

The Heritage Foundation has had significant influence in U.S. public policy making, and has historically been ranked among the most influential public policy organizations in the United States.

Following Trump's victory in the 2016 presidential election, the Heritage Foundation obtained influence in his presidential transitionand administration.[61][47][62] The foundation had a say in the staffing of the administration; CNN reported during the transition that "no other Washington institution has that kind of footprint in the transition."[61] One reason for the Heritage Foundation's disproportionate influence relative to other conservative think tanks, CNN reported, was that other conservative think tanks had "Never Trump" staff during the 2016 presidential election, while the Heritage Foundation ultimately signaled that it would be supportive of him.

[before Trump was even the nominee in 2015] a Heritage Foundation economic writer, Stephen Moore, criticized Trump's policy positions, saying, "the problem for Trump is that he’s full of all of these contradictions. He’s kind of a tabula rasa on policy."

The Heritage Foundation has been uniquely successful in writing on that blank slate.

The alarm is that they have become more extreme; and they will certainly do the same in a second Trump term as they did in the first.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Only the left wing liberals believe mainstream conservatives are now extreme.

Do you think the President should have the power to fire rank and file government employees for political reasons (or no reason at all, as 'at will' employees)?

That's part of what Trump tried to do with an executive order near the end of his term, and what project 2025 calls for.

It's extreme.

 

[Vambram]

The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank which has been around and also been influential for more than a few decades. The Heritage Foundation is not an extremist organization.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank which has been around and also been influential for more than a few decades. The Heritage Foundation is not an extremist organization.

I agree. Which is why I find it concerning that they've put their name on such an extreme policy framework.