Project 2025 is NOT the Trump plan - do not get mislead

[ozso]

They're making an issue out of it because it's the Republican agenda. We know this because they said so.

They who?

 

[Merrill]

Well, for one, there's this: IRS Collected Another $360 Million from Delinquent Millionaires

and under Obama and previous Democratic presidents, universities with multi-billion dollar endowments, which were run like hedge-funds, paid zero taxes on the capital gains from those investments.

you had places like Harvard, with a 40 billion dollar endowment, earning hundreds of millions of dollars per year in interest, gains, etc. paying ZERO in taxes on all of it.

Trump changed that with his tax law changes. It brought in a lot of money to the IRS

and the Democrats went crazy

 

[Hans Blaster]

and under Obama and previous Democratic presidents, universities with multi-billion dollar endowments, which were run like hedge-funds, paid zero taxes on the capital gains from those investments.

you had places like Harvard, with a 40 billion dollar endowment, earning hundreds of millions of dollars per year in interest, gains, etc. paying ZERO in taxes on all of it.

Trump changed that with his tax law changes. It brought in a lot of money to the IRS

and the Democrats went crazy

They are charities. They do not pay income taxes at all. It is also a tax deduction to *give* then money. It has been this way since the early days of income tax.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

Wink, wink.

Trump is distancing himself from Project 2025 because he knows the majority of Americans object to it. Should he win in November, the plan will be in full force on January 21st....

I wanted to verify your story, but the batteries are dead in my crystal ball.

 

[essentialsaltes]

and under Obama and previous Democratic presidents,

and previous Republican presidents

universities with multi-billion dollar endowments, which were run like hedge-funds, paid zero taxes on the capital gains from those investments.

Trump changed that with his tax law changes. It brought in a lot of money to the IRS

Not really.

Endowment Tax on Wealthiest Universities Netted a Fraction of Predictions in 2021​

Many of the 33 schools taxed won’t disclose how much of the $68 million they paid​

and the Democrats went crazy

I doubt that. It doesn't appear that anyone even mentioned it here on the forums.

 

[JustOneWay]

Please - let's be intellectually honest .

Yes, please be intellectually honest
(warning - potty words from Trump)

Trump lied again.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Let’s clarify

The Project 2025 is not endorsed by Trump
Trump has stated disagreements with Project 2025

The Project is not endorsed by the RNC

Fact check confirmed

Yet there are some holding onto animosity, innuendo and accusation to make people believe that it is.

169 posts and NOT ONE offering proof that they are. Just the Left’s byline for the last eight years. Trumps a liar.

That is all they seem to have left. Sad, and the is one of the many reasons why Trump is winning.

That is why threads like this are important.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Let’s clarify

The Project 2025 is not endorsed by Trump

Correct.

Trump has stated disagreements with Project 2025

Correct, though he hasn't stated what those disagreements are (and he's said that he agrees with other parts - which he also has not specified).

The Project is not endorsed by the RNC

Also correct.

Fact check confirmed

Yep.

Yet there are some holding onto animosity, innuendo and accusation to make people believe that it is.

No, some are rightfully pointing out the clear associations between Project 2025 and Trump's past and present advisors and articulating the concern that those advisors could have significant influence on policy in a future Trump administration.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Only because the left is playing transparent games. Can't wait to see what pseudo-issue they come up with next week.

You can't have it both ways - is it a made-up issue, or is there something bad about it that candidates need to distance themselves from?

 

[Merrill]

They are charities. They do not pay income taxes at all. It is also a tax deduction to *give* then money. It has been this way since the early days of income tax.

a university is a "charity"

lol, ok bro

I'm sure the college presidents making 1.2 million a year and all the other people making bank from all the money rolling in appreciate your support

more hilarious levels of hypocrisy from Democrats

 

[SimplyMe]

and under Obama and previous Democratic presidents, universities with multi-billion dollar endowments, which were run like hedge-funds, paid zero taxes on the capital gains from those investments.

you had places like Harvard, with a 40 billion dollar endowment, earning hundreds of millions of dollars per year in interest, gains, etc. paying ZERO in taxes on all of it.

Trump changed that with his tax law changes. It brought in a lot of money to the IRS

and the Democrats went crazy

No, actually Trump's tax law changes brought in less money to the IRS, basically doubling the deficit by 2019 -- not to mention how much it hurt the debt once the economy died during 2020.

 

[Merrill]

No, actually Trump's tax law changes brought in less money to the IRS, basically doubling the deficit by 2019 -- not to mention how much it hurt the debt once the economy died during 2020.

you need to turn off MSNBC and look at the actual facts. Federal revenues under the Trump administration hit record levels before the pandemic hit (and declines in revenues from that had absolutely nothing to do with Trump's fiscal policies or tax cuts)

 

[SimplyMe]

you need to turn off MSNBC and look at the actual facts. Federal revenues under the Trump administration hit record levels before the pandemic hit (and declines in revenues from that had absolutely nothing to do with Trump's fiscal policies or tax cuts)

View attachment 351427

Yes, the economy was growing so tax revenues did not go down. What you miss is Trump claiming the "greatest economy of all time" yet tax revenues roughly stayed flat -- the tax revenues should have increased at least at the same rate as the economy (and often tax revenues will go up by more, since profits are up -- more tax paid by corporations -- and wage earners get pushed into higher tax brackets), which could have then have helped the deficit. Instead, the deficit doubled because tax revenues stayed flat (less than 1% increase).

But it is odd that you don't think tax cuts hurt tax revenues, particularly in a bad economy. The idea of "trickle down" is that the increased revenues (which allegedly are because of the tax cuts) will increase tax receipts (again, tax receipts will increase faster than the economy improves), but in a bad economy fewer people are making money, so tax cuts make tax receipts even lower.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

you need to turn off MSNBC and look at the actual facts. Federal revenues under the Trump administration hit record levels before the pandemic hit (and declines in revenues from that had absolutely nothing to do with Trump's fiscal policies or tax cuts)

View attachment 351427

Accounting for inflation, that's basically flat - even slightly negative. $3.27 trillion in 2016 dollars was the equivalent $3.48 trillion in 2019 dollars ($3.33 trillion in 2017 and $3.42 trillion in 2018).

 

[iluvatar5150]

you need to turn off MSNBC and look at the actual facts. Federal revenues under the Trump administration hit record levels before the pandemic hit (and declines in revenues from that had absolutely nothing to do with Trump's fiscal policies or tax cuts)

View attachment 351427

1.) FY2016 and the first quarter of of FY2017 occurred before Trump even took office, as did the signing of the budget for FY2017.

2.) The fact that revenues went up does not rebut the claim that Trump's tax cuts brought in less money than they otherwise would have. It's perfectly possible that, without his cuts, revenues would've been even higher. The mere fact that the economy was growing is enough to cause gross tax receipts to grow.

As you can see from this chart, tax receipts as a percentage of GDP were basically flat, with a slight downward trend immediately prior to covid:

Federal Receipts as Percent of Gross Domestic Product

Graph and download economic data for Federal Receipts as Percent of Gross Domestic Product (FYFRGDA188S) from 1929 to 2024 about receipts, federal, GDP, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

 

[JustOneWay]

a university is a "charity"

An endowment is a fund that is invested to provide long-term support for a particular nonprofit organization or cause in perpetuity. A portion of the fund is made available annually while the remaining assets are retained in the fund to provide for growth over time.


An endowment is a charity.

 

[Merrill]

Yes, the economy was growing so tax revenues did not go down. What you miss is Trump claiming the "greatest economy of all time" yet tax revenues roughly stayed flat -- the tax revenues should have increased at least at the same rate as the economy (and often tax revenues will go up by more, since profits are up -- more tax paid by corporations -- and wage earners get pushed into higher tax brackets), which could have then have helped the deficit. Instead, the deficit doubled because tax revenues stayed flat (less than 1% increase).

But it is odd that you don't think tax cuts hurt tax revenues, particularly in a bad economy. The idea of "trickle down" is that the increased revenues (which allegedly are because of the tax cuts) will increase tax receipts (again, tax receipts will increase faster than the economy improves), but in a bad economy fewer people are making money, so tax cuts make tax receipts even lower.

you literally made the claim:

"Trump's tax law changes brought in less money to the IRS"

and I showed you with official statistics that it was incorrect

less money was not brought into the IRS. And revenue was not "flat" --it went from 3.27 trillion to 3.46 trillion in 2019, before back peddling a bit during the pandemic, after the whole economy was shut down.

Deficits do not double because of tax cuts alone --they are primarily a consequence of federal spending. Federal outlays exploded under Trump, primarily due to Pandemic stimulus and programs, and continued to rise dramatically under Biden, especially in his first year. Spending has decreased a bit in the last couple of years, but only because we aren't paying people to stay home.

Federal outlays as percentage of GDP under Trump in his first 3 years in office average 20.5% (then exploded because of the pandemic)

Federal outlays as percentage of GDP under Biden have averaged over 24%

Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

Receipts, outlays, and surplus or deficit in dollars and as a percent of GDP from 1940 to 2029.

www.taxpolicycenter.org

We don't have a revenue problem, we have a serious spending problem, and issues with entitlements. The idea that some tax cuts created all of this is mathematically false, and a fake left-wing talking-point. Biden is spending a lot more money than Trump

Now do we need to raise more tax revenue? Absolutely. We can hike income taxes, adjust capital gains for high earners, remove some tax breaks, etc. --but unless we get spending under control, ALL the new revenue will be spent.

 

[Merrill]

An endowment is a fund that is invested to provide long-term support for a particular nonprofit organization or cause in perpetuity. A portion of the fund is made available annually while the remaining assets are retained in the fund to provide for growth over time.


An endowment is a charity.

Yes I know how it is classified.

But it doesn't act as a charity --it is a big hedge fund, and as such, should be paying taxes

 

[Merrill]

1.) FY2016 and the first quarter of of FY2017 occurred before Trump even took office, as did the signing of the budget for FY2017.

2.) The fact that revenues went up does not rebut the claim that Trump's tax cuts brought in less money than they otherwise would have. It's perfectly possible that, without his cuts, revenues would've been even higher. The mere fact that the economy was growing is enough to cause gross tax receipts to grow.

As you can see from this chart, tax receipts as a percentage of GDP were basically flat, with a slight downward trend immediately prior to covid:

Federal Receipts as Percent of Gross Domestic Product

Graph and download economic data for Federal Receipts as Percent of Gross Domestic Product (FYFRGDA188S) from 1929 to 2024 about receipts, federal, GDP, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

That chart is flat because federal spending (outlays) exploded under Trump and Biden, not because of tax cuts

Federal Net Outlays

Graph and download economic data for Federal Net Outlays (FYONET) from 1901 to 2023 about outlays, federal, Net, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

they went from 3.9 trillion in 2017 (during Trump's first year) to 6.1 trillion last year under Biden

You and I both know that if the Federal Government brought in 2 trillion dollars in additional revenue in 2024, every penny (and more) of that would be spent. Revenues are always matched and exceeded by expenditures --the only exception was during Clinton's second term.

this idea that we are going to raise taxes and get the books in order is complete nonsense. It is called tax & spend

 

[RocksInMyHead]

That chart is flat because federal spending (outlays) exploded under Trump and Biden, not because of tax cuts

How does federal spending affect the ratio of federal receipts to GDP?