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Interesting, can you give an example? There are different ways to understand scripture, although there is a tendency to see things as unequivocal and obviously our own view being the correct one.
One of several is James 5:16 "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective." Which is supposed to include Mary, saints in heaven, and angles. However it's unlikely those in heaven are confessing their sins to us. So the verse has to whittled down to "
Thank you. Catholic confession is a thing, of course, separate to the prayer, which I assume relies instead on tradition.
As far as I know confessing to a priest is based on James 5:16 too. If you scroll back through this thread you'll see me addressing other verses as well. That all of course is just my opinion. Although it's probably what you'd hear from others as well. I'm not going to tell others what they can and can't do or believe in. But to me some things like all the extra beliefs about Mary and praying to her, saints in heaven, and angels just doesn't add up. As I see it there is absolutely no clear example of it in the bible. Whereas there's countless verses about praying to God and people's prayers to God. So I prefer to sticking to just praying to God. Asking things in the name of Jesus. And knowing that the Holy Spirit intercedes for me. That's all very solidly biblical.
Yes, it does. It holds to the book of Judith and others which clearly have errors to the rest of the other books. So the CC choosing the 73 books really means nothing other than God will use whomever he will.
Just for clarification - how does Hebrews 7:17 relate to your statement contending that the Word of God includes 73 books?
It's like saying to a large and hungry group "Share your food with one another and pray for each other." The intent of the statement is not to proclaim everyone has food.
The book of Judith has no errors. It was written to convey the message that God wants to convey. You may not understand the style of writing as did the people of those times. Errors in interpretation are made in reading other books as well, often because the readers don't understand the Jewish idioms.
Blatant errors that are easy to check out. Number one being that Nebuchadnezzar was an Assyrian King and not a Babylon one. There are others.
God is not the author of confusion and this could possibly put off someone who is a new Christian and would be confused and think if this has so many errors than what about the rest of the Word.
Errors in dates, places and people have nothing to with style or idioms. Interpretation also has nothing to do with it. Anyone can see the errors for what they are regarding the rest of the Word. So as I stated before the CC while chose the books they do err in regarding this and others as canon. It's fine if one regards it as fiction but to see it as canon is entirely another and would cause confusion.
That's not an error, that would have quite been obvious to the people of the time. It's similar to the reference to "Babylon" in Revelation, which is actually a reference to Jerusalem. Neither are errors made by God. It was never God's intention to have everyone give their own personal interpretation which conflicted with personal interpretations of others. I mentioned misinterpretations of Jewish idioms, I see that too often from Protestants who use the English language King James Bible. So many simply don't understand the original meaning that was obvious to people who lived at the time it was written.
Thank you, but as you didn't quote the message you were responding to, I don't know which two different points. Sorry!
As I stated it's an easy check. Places, people and dates. And yes, it would have been obvious to the people of the time. And it's most likely the reason that it's not considered canon to even the Jewish people today. It's obviously a work of fiction and I don't believe God has to deal in fiction to create a point. Again, parables are one thing but places, dates and people don't have to be changed to do so.
It's not similar at all. The end time Babylon is symbolic in nature to "confusion". (babel) God wants his people to come out of her, come out of that end time world system.
What does personal interpretation have to do with wrong people, dates, locations, etc? Nothing. Anyone can see those blatant errors. Which is why the CC has to defend them and answer to them. "It's all about style, etc. it's meant to be fiction and so on" I've seen it at all. You have to believe that. I and others can see the mistakes and know that while it's a good story it's not God inspired.
Jews of the time could easily figure out the names and places represented in Judith, but obviously those so far distanced in time would be expected to have great difficulty. Judith is God-breathed and not intended to be a history book. The point of Judith is that God stands by those who are faithful to Him. Your claim that Judith can't be The Word of God because it would cause "confusion" is refuted by the "Babylon" example I gave in Revelation. By the way Luther tried to get Revelation removed from the Protestant version of the Bible, Luther was able to get some but no all of the books he wanted removed.
I'm left wondering if the Protestant position on Scripture is that if a book isn't 100% historical that it should be rejected? Are Scriptures meant to be historical only? How do you know there are only 66 books? Did the Protestant Churches canonize the 66 books, which Council?
Paul's references were to "church" not "churches".
How do you dismiss Matthew 16:18, Christ said He will build His Church on Simon Bar Jona, interpreted Peter (Cephas, rock) [John 1:42]? Why then was the leper told to show himself to the priest {Matthew 8:4]? Doesn't God know he doesn't need the validation of men?
I'm a bit confused, what verse states the veil was rent so that "one could know without doubt that one can go straight to the Father? The outer most of the two veils was rent, the mysteries of the hidden ark of the New Testament might be seen through the tabernacle of the Church, the one true Church of Jesus Christ, the house of God.
God will choose whomever he will but it's not hard to see the errors in certain books and how they line up with the other books. It's up to the individual to study and show themselves approved. If I see a date, person or location for instance that is in error I would have to question that book. And no, I don't see the Bible as a complete history book.
He told others to greet the "church" that is in this house or that house. Meaning it's the body, not the building. And he set up many churches.
I don't dismiss it. I see the early church started but again, it's the body, not the organization or a certain building. But the foundation is laid by the prophets, and apostles and Christ being the cornerstone. That's the way the NT is laid out.
There is meaning and symbolism of the veil being rent. Only a high priest could go behind the veil/holy of holies but the veil was ripped meaning we don't need a earthly priest- we can now we can go to the Father/the throne through Christ.
How is it you determine for yourself, what is and what is not sacred Scripture? If you can determine for yourself then shouldn't I as a Catholic be allowed to do the same thing, approving 73 books? We aren't being asked to 'approve' Scripture. One does not determine for himself an alternate 'truth'. We are to "persevere to the end."
I don't think I made the claim the Church is a building, the Church is indeed the Body of Christ. It is an organization whose purpose is the salvation of men; just as a life boat is organized for the saving of lives on the ocean. If all the oarsmen pull in a different direction, and the steersman directs the boat willy-nilly how many are saved compared to the boats-men endeavoring to save them all, You seem to be rowing to a different beat and in different direction in the protester's boat.
Well were'd it go? Christ said the Church built on St. Peter would prevail against the hell.
Do you keep the doctrine of the apostles. The oldest doctrinal book says, "But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations." Do you consume the bread of life, Christ? The Didache, Chapter 14 (100 AD)
Only one of two veils were ripped.
We still have a High Priest who sits at the right hand of God. We also have an earthly prince as His vicar.
