Why is Christianity declining?

[FireDragon76]

Or it may be an endorsement of sin, depending on how that church characterizes its acceptance of the act.

I look at acts in terms of whether they are compatible with the Christian lifestyle represented in scripture (and "Christian lifestyle" is described in the NT, not the OT, even though the OT provides essential background).

A particular act may not be explicitly proscribed by scripture, but mindlessly indulging in that act may lead to a lifestyle or mindset that is incompatible with the scripture-prescribed Christian lifestyle.

The Bible is an ancient book. how it relates to modern life, and how it should be interpreted, do not lend themselves to straightforward, simple answers. I very much disagree with the notion that the Bible is akin to a car repair manual, but that's typically how the Bible is approached in conservative Evangelical churches (not just in the US, but the entire English-speaking world).

 

[dzheremi]

After watching Dr. Nathan Jacobs talk about his interviews with Nones as part of a research project on behalf of the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese... I actually think alot of Nones are spiritually better off than they would be in many churches. They seem to have more spiritually cogent attitudes towards life, than their previous religious communities permitted them to develop.

I think there's probably a lot of that going on, but for obvious reasons people don't want to talk about it, since it may 'implicate' (for lack of a better way to put it) their former spiritual homes, which they may not want to do for various reasons (e.g., what if their family, who are probably already struggling with the fact that their relative has become a "none", is still attending there, and they would rather not antagonize them by talking about all the ways that this church that their family still believes in and participates in is wrong and/or spiritually harmful?).

Like in my case, without blaming anyone, I can say with reasonable certainty that if I hadn't found the Orthodox Church, I would be a none. I can say that because one side of my family was Catholic and the other was Protestant, so I had been exposed to both, and I felt like I had been to all the places I could reasonably go, and still was spiritually unfulfilled. What's a person supposed to do for their own good if that's all they know? I can't be here, I can't be there, these are all the places I know or can access, so what now? I guess I'll just not be anything. That was literally what I had resigned myself to doing/being. Granted, I ultimately ended up somewhere else, doing something else, but I have a lot sympathy for "nones" who have seriously tried to stay and just couldn't. I suspect most of the ex-Christian nones probably remembered in their process of leaving their religion that it is commonly said in many churches that God can tell those who truly believe from those who just show up for whatever reason (family obligations, "it's just what we do", whatever). I can't imagine that idea doing anything than helping firm up their decision to leave. It's a tough spot, for sure.

 

[frienden thalord]

Are you saying you have actually attended churches that endorse sin? Or is this merely heresay?

Oh its not heresay . go to and behold the diverse inclusive SIN accepting rainbow that moer and more churches
are now embracing .
Go too and behold the churches who have long preached also on the love of money , known as prosperity gospel .
I seen this stuff . and if one dares to even mention
certain bible verses to remind people , HECK they call even that hate speech .
Man i seen quite a few churches and more so on the internet
that hate on the words inspired of GOD himself . OH its not heresay , ITS ALL OVER the place say .

 

[frienden thalord]

The Bible is an ancient book. how it relates to modern life, and how it should be interpreted, do not lend themselves to straightforward, simple answers. I very much disagree with the notion that the Bible is akin to a car repair manual, but that's typically how the Bible is approached in conservative Evangelical churches (not just in the US, but the entire English-speaking world).

You think the bible is old , Try and measure the time of HE who inspired that lovely book .
It might be ancient , no debate about that , But That ancient truth inspired by HE who has been always ,
YEAH its STILL TRUTH . Lets ponder on that for a while and remember that
the next time one tries to raise up the wrong rainbow
or perhaps the love of money
or any other sin . Do be encouraged .

 

[RDKirk]

The Bible is an ancient book. how it relates to modern life, and how it should be interpreted, do not lend themselves to straightforward, simple answers. I very much disagree with the notion that the Bible is akin to a car repair manual, but that's typically how the Bible is approached in conservative Evangelical churches (not just in the US, but the entire English-speaking world).

I'm not sure what that means with respect to my post.

 

[1Tonne]

That's a disagreement in biblical hermeneutics, not necessarily an endorsement of sin.

Bad hermeneutics on their behalf. Probably part of the reason why Christianity is in decline.
Outsiders see what is pretty plainly written in the bible and then you get some churches who will interpret it in their personal way and water it down.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Bad hermeneutics on their behalf. Probably part of the reason why Christianity is in decline.
Outsiders see what is pretty plainly written in the bible and then you get some churches who will interpret it in their personal way and water it down.

I am not disagreeing but what do you think has been "watered down"?

 

[1Tonne]

I am not disagreeing but what do you think has been "watered down"?

People who argue that homosexuality is OK will water down the meaning of things. For instance, they will say that the sin that the men of Sodom were committing against the 2 angels/visitors of Lots house, was simply rape and not homosexuality. So, they say homosexuality is OK.
But in Genesis 19:5 the men of Sodom call out to Lot saying "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them."
What the men of Sodom were wanting to do was rape, but also it was a detestable act. In Leviticus 18:22 it says, "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."

 

[rturner76]

We all have a starting point and I've always understood that. But what portion of the former is there at the end? Very little if we're honest. So why I would I give them my power? When you understand your capacity and the Lord's intention for your life you can take a lot in stride.

that is the biggest challenge in my opinion.....To understand one's capacity and the Lord's intention in one's life. At times when planning the care of a spouse it was easy to discern. Every decision that I made was to improve my ability to provide. When she passed away, I got totally lost. Without that center I didn't know where to go or what to do so I ended up seeking the pleasures of the flesh as a substitute. If I had bee focused on the Lord's intention for my life I would have made better decisions but making a woman your higher power can leave one empty when she is no longer there. Putting faith in the Lord and HIS intentions will leave a person much better fulfilled with or without a significant other.

Most of the content in that space is aimed at the mainstream but God is interested in all echelons. He wants light everywhere great and small. When you're addressing a demographic with a lot of discretionary income the conversations differ and they need someone relatable. They're dealing with different challenges, have a lot help and need Jesus too.

That's true. I was born in the demographic with a single mother with six children surviving on welfare and food stamps. Fortunately, my mother was given a grant to take typing classes and was able to transition into the working world. I grew up seeing her struggle and it made me desire to take 100% care of my chosen spouse so that she could have the freedom to take care of me and any little one's full-time. Like I said unfortunately she wasn't able to make little ones (she came close once but we lost her, I believe it was a girl for some reason) but I still wanted to take care of her almost as I would a child. With her death, my dreams of being the head of a family died. I have never been attracted to anyone else so I wonder what that's all about. I'm not a young man but certainly still alive and able to have a family but for some reason, I feel like I lost my only chance of happiness. Now I take care of my mother who is the real love of my life.

I don't believe in stay at home wives in its entirety for us. I require the ladies within my line to start a venture that aligns with their purpose or support a familial entity in place. They'll have the requisite helps and idleness is unbecoming. Most women aren't spending the day with their children or attending the home. They're conversing on the Internet and social media bears witness to the same.

I don't think it's idleness to take full-time care of one's children. If it's financially possible, I feel like that's the ideal of a family. Dad comes home, dinner is ready, and the kids are clean, well dressed, and ready to sit at the dinner table. I know it's a bit "Leave it Beaver" but why should they be raised in a daycare center? So much goes on in those places. A mother can keep a close eye on her children without other nasty kids in daycare doing things that are way past what kids their age should be doing. I think the best caretakers are mothers.

My greatest desire is for my descendants to do the Lord's work unencumbered. That's what drives me. You birth patriarchs and matriarchs and marry the same. Most people are looking for love but we desire to rule. That's more impactful.

To rule? Is that like a British or European thing? I wouldn't desire rulership for my children other than rulership of their own lives and choices. That vibe sounds a bit medieval to me but I may be misunderstanding the whole point

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

People who argue that homosexuality is OK will water down the meaning of things. For instance, they will say that the sin that the men of Sodom were committing against the 2 angels/visitors of Lots house, was simply rape and not homosexuality. So, they say homosexuality is OK.
But in Genesis 19:5 the men of Sodom call out to Lot saying "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them."
What the men of Sodom were wanting to do was rape, but also it was a detestable act. In Leviticus 18:22 it says, "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."

What seems to be a pretty clear and consistent Biblical teaching now what? Ignored? Contextualized? To the point that major denominational churches have openly practicing homosexuals as ordained clergy.

The people I talk with who keep distance from "church" site hypocrisy, or some wound caused by it. So it does amount to a watering down, or better, an acceptance or normalization of moral failures.

 

[Mountainmike]

I think it is because there are apparent issues within the Bible that are not properly addressed.

Today, with modern science, it is becoming hard to reconcile things such as the age of the Earth, a global flood, and evolution with the Bible.

As somebody who has been a Christian for 15 years and served as a full-time minister for a few of those... those are the sources of doubts that I have among others.

Or could it be your interpretation of those allegories is fallible?

There is plenty of forensic evidence of ( eg) so called eucharistic miracles that show forensic science confirms the right interpretation of christianuty. Plenty of scientific evidence of consciousness elsewhere than the brain to show life is more than chemistry, it has a soul, , and so chemical process can NEVER explain life.
As for evolution: ask those who think that evolution Explains present life what evidence they have of any life simpler than our simplest known cell which is both recent historically, and a horrendously complex chemical factory of thousands of biochemiCals. Ask them where it came from? They have no evidence.
Ask them how they explain the paradoxes of science. Like nothing exists till it is observed, and the world is subjective not objective. Ask them where eg gravity came from?
Science is justa model, not the underlying reality, it is a tool, not an explanation : it is Time it was put back in its box!

 

[FireDragon76]

Bad hermeneutics on their behalf. Probably part of the reason why Christianity is in decline.
Outsiders see what is pretty plainly written in the bible and then you get some churches who will interpret it in their personal way and water it down.

Most "Nones" who have been interviewed more commonly mention perceived conflicts between Christian religion and their moral intuition, conflicts with modern science, or simply not understanding how church contributes anything truly meaningful to their lives.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Most "Nones" who have been interviewed more commonly mention perceived conflicts between Christian religion and their moral intuition, conflicts with modern science, or simply not understanding how church contributes anything truly meaningful to their lives.

One almost has to ask, "Is it possible to reconcile the Bible and or church, with our contemporary experience of reality?"

Are we forced to reject one or the other as many people do?

There seems to me to be a spectrum of how people cope with this aporetic situation. {BTW, cool word, Don't you think?
aporetic
/ˌapəˈredik/
adjective

characterized by an irresolvable internal contradiction or logical disjunction.


Some folks and their churches just take the Bible as written and consider it literal history truth written by Go as if dropped from heaven.

Others find that approach to be rigid and unworkable. Then comes the gradual reinterpretation of various Biblical point. And this certainly is where all the churches and theologies part ways.

Finally there are those who just reject the Bible and churches as inadequate and delusional.

So this is where I appreciate the historical struggle to make sense of it all. We have the scholastic theologians of the middle ages, Orthodoxy, liberalism, Modernism, Post modernism, Neo -orthodoxy, Process or revisionist theology.

On another thread I started about Public theology I hope we can explore the theology and role of the church in the world we all share.

Of course the critical piece when it comes to Christianity is the encounter with Christ. Interesting that today is the feast of Thomas the Apostle.
“Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands and put my finger into the nail marks and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

There s a bit of Thomas in all of us.

 

[rturner76]

I cook, bake, make bread, can and preserve our food, keep the home, manage the finances, sew and run a business.

My sister-in-law bakes bread. It is so much tastier and cheaper. You can bake a loaf of bread for less than a dollar's worth of ingredients.

The picture you've painted isn't the norm. Listen to Dr. Laura and you'll be enlightened. She confronts them all the time. I didn't mention daycare nor am I recommending it. I prefer a nanny. Everybody needs a break and there's things you can't do with children in tow.

Daycare is necessary if you need to work. A nanny or an au pair is much more ideal. Though there some positives like learning how to socialize, share, and do fun activities. My mom had to work so I was in daycare for a while, until I became a "latchkey kid." I just think that if one can afford it, it's better to keep the kids at home. That is not possible for everyone considering how many are single parents.

That's the first thing I'd outsource if we lived in a house. Otherwise you'll never sit down and you're constantly tidying. Let them do a deep clean once a week and you'll wonder why you waited.

If you have the means, that would be ideal. My sister had a cleaner come in for just a couple hours a day every other day and it was within her budget.

I'd marry a teacher. She knows what she's doing and is equipped to teach the child at home.

My best friend did that. The only thing is that she ended up making him one of her second graders and emasculated him but it works for them. They have great kids and with online schooling, she always has the option of working from home. I have even heard of teachers branching out and starting their own online schools.

That's why you need to know His plan. We don't think that large. What we imagine as big is a pebble in His eyes. You want His capacity for your life. That's where greater heights are found. But if you haven't explored it yourself you won't unlock the rest. It's a process.

That is something that took me a long time to learn. I always ran on self-will. That allowed me to indulge in some bad behavior and I formed some bad habits by being focused on what I want instead if what he wants. It's a much more peaceful and productive way of life.

 

[Lily_o_valley]

Why is Christianity declining both in membership and in clergy? ... heretical branches. Although Islam (prelest that combines Moon paganism with heretical forms of Christianity), which like Mormonism and Judaism is a cheap imitations of Christianity, is not declining."

That right there, a complete lack of humility and respect. If you (or the conservative Christianity you favour) ever hope to convert anyone, I'd suggest Repentance first of all, and go back to school (Judaism an imitation of Christianity? Wow.)

 

[carloagal]

Oppure è possibile che la tua interpretazione di queste allegorie sia fallace?

Ci sono molte prove forensi di (ad esempio) cosiddetti miracoli eucaristici che dimostrano che la scienza forense conferma la corretta interpretazione del cristianesimo. Molte prove scientifiche di coscienza altrove rispetto al cervello dimostrano che la vita è più che chimica, ha un'anima, e quindi il processo chimico NON può MAI spiegare la vita.
Per quanto riguarda l'evoluzione: chiedete a coloro che pensano che l'evoluzione spieghi la vita presente quali prove hanno di una vita più semplice della nostra cellula più semplice conosciuta, che è sia recente storicamente, sia una fabbrica chimica orrendamente complessa di migliaia di sostanze biochimiche. Chiedete loro da dove viene. Non hanno prove.
Chiedete loro come spiegano i paradossi della scienza. Come se nulla esistesse finché non lo si osservasse, e il mondo fosse soggettivo, non oggettivo. Chiedete loro da dove provenisse, ad esempio, la gravità?
La scienza è solo un modello, non la realtà sottostante, è uno strumento, non una spiegazione: è ora che venga rimessa nella sua scatola.

The Eucharistic Miracles of Lanciano, Buenos Aires of 1992-1996, Tixla in Messico in 2006, Sokolka e Legnica in Poland in 2008 and 2013.

 

[David Lamb]

If you (or the conservative Christianity you favour) ever hope to convert anyone

We cannot convert anybody. That is God's work. As the apostle Paul wrote:

“I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.” (1Co 3:6 NKJV)

Or, as we read in Acts:

“And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.” (Ac 2:47 NKJV)

 

[carloagal]

Or could it be your interpretation of those allegories is fallible?

There is plenty of forensic evidence of ( eg) so called eucharistic miracles that show forensic science confirms the right interpretation of christianuty. Plenty of scientific evidence of consciousness elsewhere than the brain to show life is more than chemistry, it has a soul, , and so chemical process can NEVER explain life.
As for evolution: ask those who think that evolution Explains present life what evidence they have of any life simpler than our simplest known cell which is both recent historically, and a horrendously complex chemical factory of thousands of biochemiCals. Ask them where it came from? They have no evidence.
Ask them how they explain the paradoxes of science. Like nothing exists till it is observed, and the world is subjective not objective. Ask them where eg gravity came from?
Science is justa model, not the underlying reality, it is a tool, not an explanation : it is Time it was put back in its box!

According to the church teaching, the Eucharistic in all this 5 examples visibly transformed into heart muscle tissue that debunked Darwin theory of evolution if we can observed a complex organ created supernaturally. But I wonder if could be possible that someone could have faked eucharistic miracles?.

 

[dzheremi]

That right there, a complete lack of humility and respect. If you (or the conservative Christianity you favour) ever hope to convert anyone, I'd suggest Repentance first of all, and go back to school (Judaism an imitation of Christianity? Wow.)

Rabbinic Judaism, which is the mainstream version of Judaism most people are referring to when they mention Judaism as a religion with no further qualifiers, does indeed post-date Christianity. Whether or not it qualifies as a "cheap imitation" of Christianity is I suppose a matter of how you view it, but this reflexive reaction on the part of the person who fetishizes Judaism that Judaism can't possibly be younger than Christianity (hence described as an imitation rather than a forebearer) is just ridiculous. Go back to school, indeed.

 

[rturner76]

I smiled and said, choose the woman who wants the same not the one you have to convince. He ended the relationship two days later.

I remember in my first adult relationship, my then-girlfriend said one day, "I keep working with you and you're just not changing." At that very moment, I knew it was over. I liked her for her values, personality, and spirituality. I didn't bother asking what it was I was supposed to be changing but I realized that she didn't really care for me the same way. She thought I was ok, was attracted to me but I didn't work for the material things she wanted. At that young age, I was more seeking new experiences than a mortgage and two jobs. IF the shoe fits, wear it, if not, keep shopping I say. Not to say we can't adjust and consider our loved one's needs but we shouldn't desire a fundamental change in a person. It hurts sometimes but it's just either not the right person or the right time sometimes.

When I make things hard on myself by pursuing an ill-suited path or maintaining unhealthy relationships I'm forcing myself to work harder to move and it's hindering me.

Yes, I have found that when I seek to satisfy my self-will, I make more ill-suited choices, seeking instant gratification and following impulses. When I focus on discerning what the Father wants me to do, I find peace.

There are people pursuing marriage and families in different seasons. You'll draw strength from their support and encouragement and be less apprehensive.

I don't think I would "seek" marriage but if someone came along who was in pursuit of spiritual fulfillment, and supported and encouraged me, I wouldn't pass it up either. What I have learned over the years, regardless of career choices or stay-at-home choices, is that if God is not at the center of your relationship it ends up being two people pursuing their own will which may not include the other person or God's plan. That goes back to the OP.....I think modern culture encourages people to do what they want instead of considering what God might want for them. I find the modern culture to be more self-centered than God-centered. You one can discern what God wants for them, it is far more fulfilling than seeking to satisfy the flesh. That's why some of the wealthiest people are so depressed. They have everything theywant but don't feel fulfilled. One can be just getting by but following God and they experience joy.