Why is Christianity declining?

[FireDragon76]

Considering the positive aspects of the new "free" America, (by that I mean the newer ideas, social norms etc.). with more emphasis on new workplace etiquette, and policy that encourage freedom of personal choice and lifestyle. Are the advances in the areas of less conformity, more personal freedom and consideration of the strength of being an individual with the higher divrce rates, depression and mental illness rates, and the decline in religious practice?

This dilemma truly confuses me. While I love our generation's freedom of choice (fellow Gen X'r), the lack of pressure to conform to the (norm), the emergence of a higher number of women graduating college than men, the independence of the women and less and fewer racist practices in institutions among other things. There has also been a downside in certain areas. Back when there was a lot of pressure to adhere to Judeao-Christian values, more marriages stayed together providing more parental and the community's positive nurturing influence on their children's morals

Did they? When I was a child in the 80's, I knew plenty of kids from divorced families. Divorce also wasn't all that rare in the 50's, especially among non-Catholics.

 

[rturner76]

The answer depends on whether you're applying it yourself and others in your circle or the collective as you've done. The statistics you've cited wouldn't apply to me or those I'm acquainted with operating businesses in this medium. Just because others fell short or experience struggles doesn't mean it wasn't beneficial for someone else.



I don't require pressure to marry or remain in the union. That's a matter of commitment and the abdication of responsibility is boggling. Society shouldn't have to force anyone to value their families. Nor am I interested in community input for child rearing. Which supposes they're knowledgeable and most results are questionable to say the least. There's a lot of parental failures and I see it. We're just unwilling to admit it. The results speak for themselves.



I was reared in a Christian home but we weren't entrenched in communities nor was my daughter. My grandparents valued family most and the preservation of ideals for future generations. They weren't in bible studies or small groups. They created their own networks and participated in charitable events at church. We never employed the village principle. That was the domain of loved ones and trusted friends.

I was the same to some degree but narrower. I had a vision in mind and didn't allow anything to stand in my way whether they agreed or not and it surprised them. I didn't need a roadmap. I knew how to draft my own and bring it to fruition. They sat back and watched and as the years passed we eclipsed them all. It didn't go unrecognized. They told me I did a great job and praised our success.



There's a post on the single's forum you might be interested in. I shared my approach to the marriage talk with my daughter.

As for your question, it's important to tell the truth and admit your failings. That's how you earn their trust and respect. When you can call yourself out in their presence and admit you dropped the ball they'll be more receptive to the same. Emulate the qualities you desire in your offspring.

Age appropriate discussions are best. When you're discussing difficult subjects you must be willing to listen and allow them to share what they've heard or encountered firsthand. Some parents are always in teaching mode and after a while it sounds like a lecture. And their emotional intelligence is lacking.

It's helpful if you've established a familial ethos beforehand which should happen in early ages. There must be a clear distinction of 'we' in their psyche that's grounded in biblical teachings and familial expectations. It becomes their blueprint if you do it right.

We had 10 commandments she wasn't allowed to transgress and they weren't on the original list. They're an outgrowth of behavioral missteps that have cataclysmic consequences that she understood and agreed to. On a topic like homosexuality, we weren't wholly reliant on the biblical perspective on the subject. You need a natural application too. Which requires a deep regard for consequences and continual exercises in decisionmaking.

Aesop and The Children's Book of Virtues are good resources as are films. We'd watch them together and have Q and A sessions throughout. What was his mistake? What would you do differently? What did you learn from the experience and so on. The practice fosters discrimination, discernment and wisdom. You can do the same with the bible and take them through proverbs when they're older.

If you're conversant in spiritual warfare you can weave defensive prayers within the lessons and teach them how to pray intentionally and stand against their impediments on the spiritual plane. From birth to twelve is the time for girding. That's when the shaping occurs. The period that follows is for refinement and customized instruction.

It's imperative they understand offenses on a natural and spiritual plane, consequences for both and the remedy for its removal. The number one quality required for Christian parents is an ability to pray. You should be able to pray anything in or out of your home and understand your authority in that respect. Heaven moves on prayer and worship. Master them first then tackle the others. You'll alleviate a lot of problems by doing so.

~bella

Are these things you learned along the way as a parent or did you go into it with this plan of child rearing? Another question......Were your children rebellious or receptive to your teaching?

 

[rturner76]

Did they? When I was a child in the 80's, I knew plenty of kids from divorced families. Divorce also wasn't all that rare in the 50's, especially among non-Catholics.

I think in the 50s divorce lost some of it's stigma. From my understanding of history, before that a "divorcee" was considered a failure as a woman. During WWII, woman entered the workplace and picked up trades. By making their own money, they weren't so dependent on "marrying well" and could take care of themselves. Ever since more and more women have had careers instead of being housewives. In fact, these days, housewives are often looked down on for not pursuing a career. Single motherhood has skyrocketed since the 60s when popular culture shifted to the idea that "I don't need a man." In the past, most women surely needed a man to take care of them.

My parents also divorced in the 80s. At some point, marriage changed from a lifetime contract to a let's see how it goes contract. Full disclosure, I am Catholic so my point of view could surely be colored by that fact.

 

[bèlla]

Are these things you learned along the way as a parent or did you go into it with this plan of child rearing? Another question......Were your children rebellious or receptive to your teaching?

I examined my parents and the most influential people in my family. I looked at them objectively and weighed their character and experiences in relation to myself, parents and siblings. Noting where they excelled, failed and needed to improve. I kept the good and fine tuned it and discarded the bad and devised a better approach.

I didn't break the mold on everything but I forsook superfluous, outdated or unprofitable practices that wouldn't serve my aims. I cared more about results in my assessments and placed a greater primacy on grooming, capacity and ascent than they did. She was reared within a setting and demographic that embodied success and privilege.

My daughter was never rebellious or overly disobedient. That isn't her temperament nor the ideal I enforced.
Everything she learned was meant to distinguish her from her peers with a specific end in mind. She was destined to marry well, have a family, work at home, be prosperous and philanthropic. That's why she fits the mold.

Now we have a playbook to draw from that she can utilize with her children and pass on to the next. I plan to do same with marriage and create a manual future generations can reference. It's one of several heirlooms we're establishing for their benefit.

Success is not measured by the wealth one accumulates, but the empire one builds and the legacy one leaves behind. --House of Medici

~bella

 

[Joseph G]

Hmm... maybe a religion that dresses itself up as "Christianity" is declining, but we can be assured that the Body Of Christ is growing every day. God doesn't waste a single day of our lives individually or as a species. Can anything thwart His purposes?

Matthew 16:15-18 NKJV

"He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

"Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."

In other words, don't sweat it, folks! God bless!

 

[rturner76]

Now we have a playbook to draw from that she can utilize with her children and pass on to the next. I plan to do same with marriage and create a manual future generations can reference. It's one of several heirlooms we're establishing for their benefit.

Very interesting, will you self-publish or shop your book to a publisher? I was never blessed with children. My spouse wasn't able to conceive. It's sad but if you love someone, you accept them as they are. Sadly she passed away and I never got over it enough to try another relationship with someone who could possibly bear a child. I know that's too much information but I am fascinated by familial cycles and how to change them.

My grandmother was obsessed with keeping up appearances. It didn't matter what was actually going on as long as the neighbors thought everything was hunky-dory. Because of my grandmother's obsession with perfection, my mother became a perfectionist. She accepts my mistakes but she is sure to point out even the smallest dot of a stain on my shirt.

I appreciate your wisdom. I was wondering about how you said your daughter would "marry well." Do you consider it more important that your daughter find someone with means or would you still support her if she chose for example a "starving artist?" Not being a father I can only imagine that I would want my daughter to marry well. At least to the point that he could afford to take care of her if she chose to be a housewife. One thing that annoys me about modern society is the societal pressure put on women to have a career. It is my opinion that being a stay at home mother IS a career and a rewarding one at that. I wish that being a full time mother was given more respect.

I probably went way off topic but I am just interested in hearing more of your philosophy on family matters like what would you stand for and what would you not accept when it comes to marriage and family. Feel free to ignore me if I have disclosed too much or asked awkward questions.

 

[bèlla]

Very interesting, will you self-publish or shop your book to a publisher?

I have no interest in publishing or sharing my process with the world. It's a benefit of the womb meant to remain within the family. Others can do the same and put their thoughts on paper.

I was never blessed with children. My spouse wasn't able to conceive. It's sad but if you love someone, you accept them as they are. Sadly she passed away and I never got over it enough to try another relationship with someone who could possibly bear a child. I know that's too much information but I am fascinated by familial cycles and how to change them.

I'm sorry to hear that. But that doesn't mean all is lost. Your passion for the subject is evident and it's a topic rarely addressed from that position. The majority raise their children for themselves or today. They don't have the foresight to look beyond that period and develop a process others can replicate.

You can't get there by using someone else's cheat sheet. You have to look at your circumstances and develop a strategy based on the participants that you adopt as others enter the fold. If you're not willing to do that you're not committed and the project will fail.

My grandmother was obsessed with keeping up appearances. It didn't matter what was actually going on as long as the neighbors thought everything was hunky-dory. Because of my grandmother's obsession with perfection, my mother became a perfectionist. She accepts my mistakes but she is sure to point out even the smallest dot of a stain on my shirt.

My grandmother was the same but I've never cared. I have my sensibilities but I've never given others the credence she would. It doesn't matter what they think. Everyone has opinions. We can't do anything about it. But allowing them to affect us is a problem.

We all have a starting point and I've always understood that. But what portion of the former is there at the end? Very little if we're honest. So why I would I give them my power? When you understand your capacity and the Lord's intention for your life you can take a lot in stride.

I appreciate your wisdom. I was wondering about how you said your daughter would "marry well." Do you consider it more important that your daughter find someone with means or would you still support her if she chose for example a "starving artist?"

I expected you to raise this question that's why I didn't go into detail.

Starving artists require a patron. Someone who'll invest in their work with a wide network they can introduce them to. How many of the greats married the same? They're usually aficionados who take them under their wing.

We attract what we are. The spirit within testifies to the same within another. There's always common ground. We're more likely to seek what's familiar when our experiences follow suit. Why would she pursue someone outside her norm when the alternative is easier? She needs a companion who can utilize her gifts and talents and requires them and the latter is a must.

The world pursues lofty ideals and a laundry list of qualities inspired by the person they might become as opposed to the things they need to move the needle and get to the next step. The most important decision you'll make beyond God is the person you'll marry. The vision he has in mind must require what she possesses or she's not the right fit. You'll have areas of improvement of course but the role must be comfortable and play to her strengths. Complementary gifts, talents and missions make the best alliances.

To do what you suggest is a violation of the familial ethos and threatens the success of her mission. She has a duty to provide heirs. That's her number one job. The work that she's been given allows her to honor her responsibilities and glorify the Lord while doing so. He expects her to minister to women and families through her work in the home and relationships.

Most of the content in that space is aimed at the mainstream but God is interested in all echelons. He wants light everywhere great and small. When you're addressing a demographic with a lot of discretionary income the conversations differ and they need someone relatable. They're dealing with different challenges, have a lot help and need Jesus too.

Not being a father I can only imagine that I would want my daughter to marry well. At least to the point that he could afford to take care of her if she chose to be a housewife. One thing that annoys me about modern society is the societal pressure put on women to have a career. It is my opinion that being a stay at home mother IS a career and a rewarding one at that. I wish that being a full time mother was given more respect.

It's better to marry a man whose parents exemplified the same and did it well. You don't have to sell him on the merits and he witnessed it up close. They have a clearer understanding of what's required to make it work and a trustworthy source to reference.

I don't believe in stay at home wives in its entirety for us. I require the ladies within my line to start a venture that aligns with their purpose or support a familial entity in place. They'll have the requisite helps and idleness is unbecoming. Most women aren't spending the day with their children or attending the home. They're conversing on the Internet and social media bears witness to the same.

I probably went way off topic but I am just interested in hearing more of your philosophy on family matters like what would you stand for and what would you not accept when it comes to marriage and family. Feel free to ignore me if I have disclosed too much or asked awkward questions.

You needn't apologize.

My greatest desire is for my descendants to do the Lord's work unencumbered. That's what drives me. You birth patriarchs and matriarchs and marry the same. Most people are looking for love but we desire to rule. That's more impactful.

~bella

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Sorry. I don't understand the statement.

Do you see joy and peace in the lives of most Christians?

 

[rturner76]

You can't get there by using someone else's cheat sheet. You have to look at your circumstances and develop a strategy based on the participants that you adopt as others enter the fold. If you're not willing to do that you're not committed and the project will fail.

I see. but I have looked to my former spouse with ignorance. I bought her a house but she completely rejected it because she didn't choose it herself. I thought it would be romantic to lay a big house with a double lot at her feet but I neglected to give her consideration when it comes to the place we would live. In the neighborhood I chose, I could get a big house on a hill with two lots to spread out on but she wanted a place closer to her family on the other side of town which I couldn't afford. I always wondered if she should have followed me or if I should have kept saving in order to get what she wanted. I thought I was showing what a manly man I was by taking her to her new house but I got it totally wrong. My question is how important is it for the man to lead and how important is it to give the wife the choice on where to buy? I thinkyou have a good handle on these matters and I would appreciate your opinion because though I'm getting older, I may have enough years left to start a family though I doubt it will happen.

To do what you suggest is a violation of the familial ethos and threatens the success of her mission. She has a duty to provide heirs. That's her number one job.

That's really old school but understandable as what are men and women meant to do but procreate.? Do you think it is more important that she be a vessel for her husband's seed or seek her fulfillment in a career? Do you leave it up to her and not interfere or would you try toencourage in one way or the other?

That's what drives me. You birth patriarchs and matriarchs and marry the same. Most people are looking for love but we desire to rule. That's more impactful.

My patriarch completely abandoned me at age 7. Never saw or spoke to him again until I was going through some issues and mom found him and told home "Your son could die soon, do you want to say anything to him? We've been in contact ever since though he never visits and his wife hates me and my mom so much we don't feel comfortable going to him a couple states away. Again I am disclosing too much but I feel you would make a great Pastor due to your wisdom and the apparent comfort I feel telling all my business. I don't do that often but I sense a non-judgemental vibe that makes me feel comfortable.

I appreciate your input, God Bless you and your family

 

[frienden thalord]

Do you see joy and peace in the lives of most Christians?

sadly i see something far worse in a lot of christains who sit in churches .
I see joy when a preacher says their sin is good and accepted , no longer even considered sin .
But believe me this is a joy that cometh of the flesh and of the world . its getting bad in eygpt my friend .
About the time a lot of christains seem happy is if the stock market is up and some pastor is promising them some big gain in money or etc .
Things are not looking to good right now . Just a friendly reminder .

 

[frienden thalord]

Many have forgotten that it is the JOY of the LORD that be our strength . now raise them hands and praise the glorious Lord .

 

[1Tonne]

Do you see joy and peace in the lives of most Christians?

Most believers I see, outwardly do look as though they are happy. I simply believe that many have not been equipped and many will simply say that it is not their gift to share the Gospel.
Here is a video to show how to be a gifted evangelist. It is only 39 seconds. Go to 6:00.
How to be a gifted evangelist (See 6:00-6:39)

 

[bèlla]

I see. but I have looked to my former spouse with ignorance. I bought her a house but she completely rejected it because she didn't choose it herself. I thought it would be romantic to lay a big house with a double lot at her feet but I neglected to give her consideration when it comes to the place we would live.

Remember my previous statement. It's important to choose a spouse with complementary qualities and a willingness to support your vision. Rejecting the house was a mistake which undoubtedly left a sour taste in your mouth. It wasn't about the house but what the gesture entailed. It was a demonstration of position and esteem.

In the neighborhood I chose, I could get a big house on a hill with two lots to spread out on but she wanted a place closer to her family on the other side of town which I couldn't afford. I always wondered if she should have followed me or if I should have kept saving in order to get what she wanted.

The only thing she needed to consider is whether she was willing to wait. It was your responsibility to assess her perspective on delayed gratification and measure its presence. Women frequently choose suitors based on their potential which rarely works. You select the vision you can follow and support.

If he doesn't have your buy-in as is you're creating a problem. He's behind the ball from the start and if he misses the mark then what? And the same holds true in reverse. Choose the woman who'll help you build not one you have to convince or hope she'll come around. You can't be divided.

My question is how important is it for the man to lead and how important is it to give the wife the choice on where to buy? I thinkyou have a good handle on these matters and I would appreciate your opinion because though I'm getting older, I may have enough years left to start a family though I doubt it will happen.

There's a principle in The Magic of Thinking Big that answers your question. Let's imagine you married and purchased the house at 25 but the average life span in your family is 85. You've got 60 years or more to work with. Would you split hairs over this? You have to see situations in their proper context with the long view in mind. You could have enjoyed the house and made improvements and sold it for a profit and purchased your dream home. People do it all the time. But it's matter of perspective.

That's really old school but understandable as what are men and women meant to do but procreate.?

When you want to build a house you begin with a plan and lay the foundation. Everything that follows is reliant on its soundness. In like fashion, when a multigenerational entity is the goal you require a founder with vision who lays the path for the next. The role is two-fold. They're founder and patriarch/wife and matriarch and raise the children with that in mind and become references for those who follow.

Procreation is important but isn't the only function. The offspring are heirs and responsible for moving the plan forward and strengthening the unit. Everyone contributes to the work with the kingdom in mind. That's why we're here.

Do you think it is more important that she be a vessel for her husband's seed or seek her fulfillment in a career?

You can't answer that question until you understand your priorities. If marriage and family are the goal and you want her to stay at home what do your circumstances say? Are you in a position to do that or would it be best if she did something part-time at home instead?

My patriarch completely abandoned me at age 7.

Patriarchs are born not made. It doesn't matter what happened or what they did or didn't do. Who are you in light of it? And how bad do you want it?

Again I am disclosing too much but I feel you would make a great Pastor due to your wisdom and the apparent comfort I feel telling all my business. I don't do that often but I sense a non-judgemental vibe that makes me feel comfortable.

I appreciate your input, God Bless you and your family

Thank you for the compliment. You're correct in your assessment. There's no judgment this way. I'd rather leave you with something to build on than negative feelings. Bad things happen but we're more than our circumstances and mistakes. Remember that.

When I found my way back to the Lord I wanted be like Joyce Meyer and stand on a stage and talk about God. I enjoy taking difficult subjects and presenting them in simple speech or addressing popular topics from different angles that make you think.

It's all about planting seeds. If I've given you a morsel of hope I'm thankful. It's the end of the matter that's most important. Don't throw in the towel.

~bella

 

[FireDragon76]

sadly i see something far worse in a lot of christains who sit in churches .
I see joy when a preacher says their sin is good and accepted , no longer even considered sin .

Are you saying you have actually attended churches that endorse sin? Or is this merely heresay?

 

[1Tonne]

Are you saying you have actually attended churches that endorse sin? Or is this merely heresay?

There is one here that is reasonably local that endorses homosexuality.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I simply believe that many have not been equipped and many will simply say that it is not their gift to share the Gospel.

That is for sure. Just winging it is set up for failure.

 

[FireDragon76]

There is one here that is reasonably local that endorses homosexuality.

That's a disagreement in biblical hermeneutics, not necessarily an endorsement of sin.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I don't know that Christianity is failing. There are many versions of it out there and they diminish each other. But I guess that has always been true. Just looking at Christian history even since the "Enlightenment". Conservative, Liberal, Neoconservative, etc While many of us don't know much about these trends we actually are part of them without realizing it.

 

[RDKirk]

That's a disagreement in biblical hermeneutics, not necessarily an endorsement of sin.

Or it may be an endorsement of sin, depending on how that church characterizes its acceptance of the act.

I look at acts in terms of whether they are compatible with the Christian lifestyle represented in scripture (and "Christian lifestyle" is described in the NT, not the OT, even though the OT provides essential background).

A particular act may not be explicitly proscribed by scripture, but mindlessly indulging in that act may lead to a lifestyle or mindset that is incompatible with the scripture-prescribed Christian lifestyle.

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't know that Christianity is failing. There are many versions of it out there and they diminish each other. But I guess that has always been true. Just looking at Christian history even since the "Enlightenment". Conservative, Liberal, Neoconservative, etc While many of us don't know much about these trends we actually are part of them without realizing it.

After watching Dr. Nathan Jacobs talk about his interviews with Nones as part of a research project on behalf of the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese... I actually think alot of Nones are spiritually better off than they would be in many churches. They seem to have more spiritually cogent attitudes towards life, than their previous religious communities permitted them to develop.