Where does "Do unto others ..." lead?

[Xeno.of.athens]

Jesus' teaching that one should treat others as they themselves would like to be treated, commonly known as the Golden Rule, holds a profound theological meaning. Do you agree that It encapsulates the empathic essence of morality, emphasizing the dignity and respect due to every individual? And would practicing this commandment lead individuals towards greater empathy and moral integrity, while guiding societies towards fairness, equality, and mutual respect?

 

[Bob Crowley]

In theory it would " lead individuals towards greater empathy and moral integrity, while guiding societies towards fairness, equality, and mutual respect", but that's only going to work if we have the Holy Spirit working in us.

I've only got to look at myself to see the evidence. When I was an atheist I could be quite selfish (and even now not all of my decisions are charitable). It wasn't till I became Christian that my ethos started to change.

I've often said that the night my father died he turned up in my room. We had an exchange and at the end he gave this bloodcurdling scream, then just disappeared.

As part of the exchange I accused him of wrecking my career / trade prospects as he'd completely destroyed my confidence, and he admitted he did it deliberately.

But the response I got back from him wasn't what I expected. He replied "It's not even important!" (well paid work, social status, ouir place in the sun etc.).

I snapped back "Then what is!!?"

He said "How you treat other people". He treated his own family badly, and he'd been very cruel, but from where he was standing (in front of the judgment seat I presume) he had a different viewpoint on things.

I think when we front up for our own "particular judgement" to use the Catholic term, we're going to find God won't be all that interested in our social status except insofar as we used it to help others viz. "How you treat other people" or "Love your neighbour as yourself".

The more power we have over other people the more He's going to hold us to account for it.

Catholic Catechism Paragraph 1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification or immediately, -- or immediate and everlasting damnation.

 

[BobRyan]

Jesus' teaching that one should treat others as they themselves would like to be treated, commonly known as the Golden Rule, holds a profound theological meaning. Do you agree that It encapsulates the empathic essence of morality, emphasizing the dignity and respect due to every individual? And would practicing this commandment lead individuals towards greater empathy and moral integrity, while guiding societies towards fairness, equality, and mutual respect?

But we would still have gold medals for the Olympics, we would still have good products and failing products where some companies succeed and others go out of business. We would still have laws. We would still have criminals who ignore the Word of God and try to enter illegally into our nation, into banks, into houses etc.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Jesus' teaching that one should treat others as they themselves would like to be treated, commonly known as the Golden Rule, holds a profound theological meaning. Do you agree that It encapsulates the empathic essence of morality, emphasizing the dignity and respect due to every individual? And would practicing this commandment lead individuals towards greater empathy and moral integrity, while guiding societies towards fairness, equality, and mutual respect?

Love is the golden rule. Jesus Christ of Nazareth turned His teaching towards our own self preservation. The natural instinct towards oneself is quite powerful and love driven whether or not we realize it.

Blessings.

 

[The Liturgist]

Jesus' teaching that one should treat others as they themselves would like to be treated, commonly known as the Golden Rule, holds a profound theological meaning. Do you agree that It encapsulates the empathic essence of morality, emphasizing the dignity and respect due to every individual? And would practicing this commandment lead individuals towards greater empathy and moral integrity, while guiding societies towards fairness, equality, and mutual respect?

Yes, provided one also adheres to the Great Commandment, which the Jews call the Shema, which can be simply paraphrased by saying we should love the Lord our God above all other things.

If we just adhere to the Golden Rule without also adhering to the Great Commandment, we might, because we do not love God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, be inclined to violate His instructions to us and do things to other people that we would want done to ourselves, which are nonetheless immoral.

For example, some people are sado-masochists, and so in serving this paraphilia, would engage in sadistic behavior which might harm other people, and which often relates to serious sexual perversion that the Church cannot tolerate, as it violates the dignity of humans as being created in the likeness of God, to have the human form demeaned and abused, even if such abuse is consensual.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Yes, provided one also adheres to the Great Commandment, which the Jews call the Shema, which can be simply paraphrased by saying we should love the Lord our God above all other things.

If we just adhere to the Golden Rule without also adhering to the Great Commandment, we might, because we do not love God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, be inclined to violate His instructions to us and do things to other people that we would want done to ourselves, which are nonetheless immoral.

For example, some people are sado-masochists, and so in serving this paraphilia, would engage in sadistic behavior which might harm other people, and which often relates to serious sexual perversion that the Church cannot tolerate, as it violates the dignity of humans as being created in the likeness of God, to have the human form demeaned and abused, even if such abuse is consensual.

Mercy is not mercy if it is given to the worthy.

 

[The Liturgist]

Mercy is not mercy if it is given to the worthy.

I didn’t say it was. I don’t see how you are getting that from my post. What I am asserting is that the two commandments of our Lord, the Great Commandment and the Golden Rule, are inseparable, because if we don’t love God with all our heart, mind and soul we will not do unto others those things which are good, which would have them do unto us, because our desires will be warped. Rather we will do unto them acts which are perverted, which we desire, but which are against the desire of God.

To exercise true mercy, we must love God fully so that we can understand God’s infinite mercy and know how to apply it. In this manner the Golden Rule becomes fully efficacious.

I refuse to separate the two Dominical commandments, simply because the love of God allows us to discern those things we really should want other people to do to us, and thus do them to other people, those acts of true mercy that will help them and help us. And I am not suggesting these are acts of Holier-than-thou meanness or anything lacking in what would be immediately recognized as mercy. God is infinitely good, infinitely loving and infinitely merciful, but humans aren’t, and our sinful passions cause us to desire other humans to do things to us that will harm us, for example, with regards to sexual perversion. The Great Commandment simply ensures that what we do unto others according to the Golden Rule is actually good, and not merely a reflection of our own sinful passions.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I didn’t say it was. I don’t see how you are getting that from my post. What I am asserting is that the two commandments of our Lord, the Great Commandment and the Golden Rule, are inseparable, because if we don’t love God with all our heart, mind and soul we will not do unto others those things which are good, which would have them do unto us, because our desires will be warped. Rather we will do unto them acts which are perverted, which we desire, but which are against the desire of God.

To exercise true mercy, we must love God fully so that we can understand God’s infinite mercy and know how to apply it. In this manner the Golden Rule becomes fully efficacious.

I refuse to separate the two Dominical commandments, simply because the love of God allows us to discern those things we really should want other people to do to us, and thus do them to other people, those acts of true mercy that will help them and help us. And I am not suggesting these are acts of Holier-than-thou meanness or anything lacking in what would be immediately recognized as mercy. God is infinitely good, infinitely loving and infinitely merciful, but humans aren’t, and our sinful passions cause us to desire other humans to do things to us that will harm us, for example, with regards to sexual perversion. The Great Commandment simply ensures that what we do unto others according to the Golden Rule is actually good, and not merely a reflection of our own sinful passions.

For the one giving mercy in this world the two greatest commandments are inseparably joined. For the one receiving mercy the second of the two is most necessary.

 

[The Liturgist]

For the one giving mercy in this world the two greatest commandments are inseparably joined. For the one receiving mercy the second of the two is most necessary.

It seems to me that for the one receiving mercy, although they might be unaware of the inseparably joined commandments, the two must still be joined in order for them to receive true mercy, since otherwise the person exercising the Golden Rule towards them might do unto them things which they desire be done unto them, but which will harm the recipient. I believe you cannot separate these two commandments from either the giving or the receiving end of things.

Of course, I could be wrong. If desired, I can take a look at my books on Orthodox Dogmatic Theology and also contact Orthodox clergy to determine what a tenable position is on this subject.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

It seems to me that for the one receiving mercy, although they might be unaware of the inseparably joined commandments, the two must still be joined in order for them to receive true mercy, since otherwise the person exercising the Golden Rule towards them might do unto them things which they desire be done unto them, but which will harm the recipient. I believe you cannot separate these two commandments from either the giving or the receiving end of things.

Of course, I could be wrong. If desired, I can take a look at my books on Orthodox Dogmatic Theology and also contact Orthodox clergy to determine what a tenable position is on this subject.

It is not mercy if it is deserved.

 

[The Liturgist]

It is not mercy if it is deserved.

I didn’t say that it was.

Mercy is obviously an act of undeserved forgiveness and divine grace. But on the subject of the Golden Rule, the Great Commandment guides us in how to apply mercy. And for the recipient of mercy, for them to receive mercy to the fullest extent, it is in their best interests if the person being merciful to them believes in both the Golden Rule and the Great Commandment. That was my point.

I have to confess, begging your forgiveness, that your reply struck me as a bit of a non sequitur, but then it occurred to me - did you think I was implying that the person receiving the mercy had to some how be adhering to both the Golden Rule and the Great Commandment? Because as I see it, the reception of mercy is an action that can be experienced passively, for example, when physicians care for an unconscious patient and work to revive them.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I didn’t say that it was.

Mercy is obviously an act of undeserved forgiveness and divine grace. But on the subject of the Golden Rule, the Great Commandment guides us in how to apply mercy. And for the recipient of mercy, for them to receive mercy to the fullest extent, it is in their best interests if the person being merciful to them believes in both the Golden Rule and the Great Commandment. That was my point.

I have to confess, begging your forgiveness, that your reply struck me as a bit of a non sequitur, but then it occurred to me - did you think I was implying that the person receiving the mercy had to some how be adhering to both the Golden Rule and the Great Commandment? Because as I see it, the reception of mercy is an action that can be experienced passively, for example, when physicians care for an unconscious patient and work to revive them.

Mercy is needed by the unworthy.

Having received mercy from God, God will do what is needed to complete the work of mercy.

 

[eleos1954]

Jesus' teaching that one should treat others as they themselves would like to be treated, commonly known as the Golden Rule, holds a profound theological meaning. Do you agree that It encapsulates the empathic essence of morality, emphasizing the dignity and respect due to every individual? And would practicing this commandment lead individuals towards greater empathy and moral integrity, while guiding societies towards fairness, equality, and mutual respect?

The Lord is looking for people who are open to change and are willing to follow His ways ... and that is to recognize their sin and turn away from it and accept Jesus as their Lord and savior.

We are to point people to Christ and teach His ways .... people may or may not be open to this ... if people are choosing to continuously live in sin we are not to associate with them. We are not to be mean to them ... but we may have to distance ourselves from them. The thing with spreading the Word of God ... when that is done it is Gods word that judges them (conviction) and many look at this as being the individual being judgmental, disrespectful, lack of dignity ... when in reality it is the Word of God piercing their soul.

Hebrews 4:12
Amplified Bible
For the word of God is living and active and full of power [making it operative, energizing, and effective]. It is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating as far as the division of the soul and spirit [the completeness of a person], and of both joints and marrow [the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and judging the very thoughts and intentions of the heart.


1 Corinthians 5:11
AMP
But actually, I have written to you not to associate with any so-called [Christian] brother if he is sexually immoral or greedy, or is an idolater [devoted to anything that takes the place of God], or is a reviler [who insults or slanders or otherwise verbally abuses others], or is a drunkard or a swindler—you must not so much as eat with such a person.

If people are not interested in getting to know God .... dust off your feet and journey down the road continuing onward.

Matthew 10:14

AMP
Whoever does not welcome you, nor listen to your message, as you leave that house or city, shake the dust [of it] off your feet [in contempt, breaking all ties].

 

[The Liturgist]

Mercy is needed by the unworthy.

Well yes, obviously. What makes you think I was arguing otherwise?

Having received mercy from God, God will do what is needed to complete the work of mercy.

Well, in Orthodoxy (and Byzantine Rite Catholicism) we believe that synergy is ongoing, and this is good, because it gives us something to look forward to in the life of the world to come.

I much prefer the dynamic and interactive, idea of the Orthodox and Greek Catholics of theosis to the Latin Catholic idea of the beatific vision, which seems on the surface like a static and passive experience.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Well yes, obviously. What makes you think I was arguing otherwise?



Well, in Orthodoxy (and Byzantine Rite Catholicism) we believe that synergy is ongoing, and this is good, because it gives us something to look forward to in the life of the world to come.

I much prefer the dynamic and interactive, idea of the Orthodox and Greek Catholics of theosis to the Latin Catholic idea of the beatific vision, which seems on the surface like a static and passive experience.

None of my replies said you were opposing what I wrote. My replies were to make some ideas more visible.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Well, in Orthodoxy (and Byzantine Rite Catholicism) we believe that synergy is ongoing, and this is good, because it gives us something to look forward to in the life of the world to come.

I much prefer the dynamic and interactive, idea of the Orthodox and Greek Catholics of theosis to the Latin Catholic idea of the beatific vision, which seems on the surface like a static and passive experience.

Catholics are all Catholic. The Catechism is for the entire Catholic Church.

 

[The Liturgist]

Catholics are all Catholic. The Catechism for the entire Catholic Church.

The Byzantine Rite Catholics have substantial doctrinal differences with Latin Rite Catholicism, as is evinced by their hymnography. For example, on the Second Sunday in Lent, they venerate St. Gregory Palamas, the Orthodox saint who stressed the distinction between the essence and uncreated energies of God, and whose doctrine is contrary to the Roman Rite idea of created grace, since in Byzantine theology, grace is an uncreated energy of God.

If you don’t believe me, read their liturgical service books. They even lack the filioque. Their only difference from the Eastern Orthodox liturgical texts is the inclusion of prayers for the Pope of Rome.

I myself hope that the Major Archbishop of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk, becomes the next Pope of Rome, as that would do much to repair the confusion caused by Pope Francis (Archbishop Sviatoslav rejected Fiducia Supplicans entirely, like Bishop Athanasius Schneider, who would also make a great Pope), and because of his Byzantine status, would be ideally positioned to reconcile the Roman church with the Orthodox.

 

[The Liturgist]

None of my replies said you were opposing what I wrote. My replies were to make some ideas more visible.

Thank you for clarifying that. That did not come through at all, by the way; it appeared that you were suggesting that I had made an erroneous or deficient comment. You might consider positing something to the extent that you are seeking to emphasize a point so as to avoid such bewilderment on the part of your friends in the future.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The Byzantine Rite Catholics have substantial doctrinal differences with Latin Rite Catholicism, as is evinced by their hymnography. For example, on the Second Sunday in Lent, they venerate St. Gregory Palamas, the Orthodox saint who stressed the distinction between the essence and uncreated energies of God, and whose doctrine is contrary to the Roman Rite idea of created grace, since in Byzantine theology, grace is an uncreated energy of God.

If you don’t believe me, read their liturgical service books. They even lack the filioque. Their only difference from the Eastern Orthodox liturgical texts is the inclusion of prayers for the Pope of Rome.

I myself hope that the Major Archbishop of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk, becomes the next Pope of Rome, as that would do much to repair the confusion caused by Pope Francis (Archbishop Sviatoslav rejected Fiducia Supplicans entirely, like Bishop Athanasius Schneider, who would also make a great Pope), and because of his Byzantine status, would be ideally positioned to reconcile the Roman church with the Orthodox.

Is essence and uncreated energies dogmatic teaching in Orthodoxy?

Is absence of a Latin word in a Latin creed a dogmatic teaching of Orthodoxy?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Thank you for clarifying that. That did not come through at all, by the way; it appeared that you were suggesting that I had made an erroneous or deficient comment. You might consider positing something to the extent that you are seeking to emphasize a point so as to avoid such bewilderment on the part of your friends in the future.

I do not understand why "Mercy is not mercy if it is given to the worthy." as expressing an idea "did not come through at all" and "[suggested] that [you] had made an erroneous or deficient comment".