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Did Jesus die on the day they killed the paschal lamb?

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Yeshua HaDerekh

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The days of unleavened bread are from the evening of the 14th day, to the evening of the 21st day.
"On the fourteenth day of the first month is the Passover of the Lord. And on the fifteenth day of this month is the feast; unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days."
 
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ralliann

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You are contradicting the article.
No I am not.
The article actually addresses this exact point. It does NOT agree with yours.
Exactly, with regards to sacrifices. The day goes before the night. The night of the 15th is to be considered the 14th.......since the sacrifice is to be eaten in the same day it is offered.....
And once again
"the night after a sacrifice is brought is an extension of the day it is brought."
And.......
" Thus, as far as sacrifices are concerned, the night after a sacrifice is brought is an extension of the day it is brought."

So,,,as far as sacrifices are concerned, that night was still the 14th day, and the 15th did not begin until the morning, when the festival offering belonging to the 15th day was brought. None of the Passover sacrifice was to be left till that morning...
In other words the night the Passover is eaten, it to be considered still the 14th day......
 
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ralliann

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"On the fourteenth day of the first month is the Passover of the Lord. And on the fifteenth day of this month is the feast; unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days."
Yes????? A CIVIL calendar day begins at night. Days of unleavened bread begin in the evening. The feast days each have a sacrifice beginning in the morning of the 15th day
There is a civil calendar, and liturgical calendar etc.
The daily sacrifices are TWO DAILY. First, in the morning and second, in the evening in that order.
 
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ralliann

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"Seblantics" aside, we agree that Jesus died on the day they killed the Paschal Lamb.
No, he died the first feast day, the 15th.
A quote from Josephus...The feast of unleavened bread SUCCEEDS that of the Passover, and falls on the 15th day of the month, and continues seven days, wherein they feed on unleavened bread; ON EVERYONE OF WHICH DAYS 2 BULLS ARE KILLED, ONE RAM,AND SEVENLAMBS. NOW THESE LAMBS ARE ENTIRELY BURNT, BESIDE THE KIDS OF THE GOATS WHICH IS ADDED TO ALL THE REST, FOR SINS
FOR IT IS INTENDED AS A FEAST FOR THE PRIESTS ON EVERYONE OF THOSE DAYS.


Priestly "passovers" FOR SIN were offered everyday of the seven days.... Which Caiaphas did not want to become defiled to not eat of this most holy priestly festival sacrifice
Joh 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover. {the hall … : or, Pilate’s house }

As Josephus says the FEAST SUCCEEDS the PASSOVER
Numb 28:16 And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD.
17 And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.
18 In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein
19 But ye shall offer a sacrifice made by fire for a burnt offering unto the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, and seven lambs of the first year: they shall be unto you without blemish:
20 And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil: three tenth deals shall ye offer for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram;
21 A several tenth deal shalt thou offer for every lamb, throughout the seven lambs:
22 And one goat for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you.
23 Ye shall offer these beside the burnt offering in the morning, which is for a continual burnt offering.
24 After this manner ye shall offer daily, throughout the seven days, the meat of the sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD: it shall be offered beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.
 
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AFrazier

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The 1st of unleavened is the 15th. Just saying that, proves you wrong (among MANY other reasons that I have pointed out to you in the past). If you do not know why, you should. Because you do not, explains why you say the things you do. The only thing you have proven is that you do not understand 2nd Temple or biblical Judaism, fulfillments or the Prophets. Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:7 proves you wrong too.
The first day of unleavened bread is the 14th. "You shall not offer the blood of the sacrifice with leaven." Leaven had to be destroyed on the 14th before the sacrifice of the paschal lambs. The 14th itself is even specifically called the first day. So, sorry not sorry . . . You're still wrong.
 
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AFrazier

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So the last supper was lamb? It was more then just bread and wine.
According to three of the Gospels, yes. Matthew, Mark, and Luke all explicitly state that two disciples, Peter and John, went and made ready the Passover.
 
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notRusskiyMir

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No, he died the first feast day, the 15th.
A quote from Josephus...The feast of unleavened bread SUCCEEDS that of the Passover, and falls on the 15th day of the month, and continues seven days, wherein they feed on unleavened bread; ON EVERYONE OF WHICH DAYS 2 BULLS ARE KILLED, ONE RAM,AND SEVENLAMBS. NOW THESE LAMBS ARE ENTIRELY BURNT, BESIDE THE KIDS OF THE GOATS WHICH IS ADDED TO ALL THE REST, FOR SINS
FOR IT IS INTENDED AS A FEAST FOR THE PRIESTS ON EVERYONE OF THOSE DAYS.


Priestly "passovers" FOR SIN were offered everyday of the seven days.... Which Caiaphas did not want to become defiled to not eat of this most holy priestly festival sacrifice
Joh 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover. {the hall … : or, Pilate’s house }

As Josephus says the FEAST SUCCEEDS the PASSOVER
Numb 28:16 And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD.
17 And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.
18 In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein
19 But ye shall offer a sacrifice made by fire for a burnt offering unto the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, and seven lambs of the first year: they shall be unto you without blemish:
20 And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil: three tenth deals shall ye offer for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram;
21 A several tenth deal shalt thou offer for every lamb, throughout the seven lambs:
22 And one goat for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you.
23 Ye shall offer these beside the burnt offering in the morning, which is for a continual burnt offering.
24 After this manner ye shall offer daily, throughout the seven days, the meat of the sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD: it shall be offered beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.
John 18:28 supports my position, not yours. Jesus died the day before the Passover.
The feast of unleavened bread SUCCEEDS that of the Passover,
Succeeds means AFTER. This agrees with my Chabad source, which states that the common use of the word Pesach/Passover for Nissan 14 means the offering of the lamb, the killing of the lamb. That source also says that the use of the term Pesach/Passover properly, but informally, refers to the Festival of Matzahs.

I'll post it once again. It isn't that hard. This source EXACTLY addresses the issue, and I have reported accurately what its says.


It says this:

"So what is this “Passover” on the 14th? It is not the Festival of Matzahs, since that only begins that evening (since the Jewish days begin at nightfall). Rather, it is the Passover offering, which was slaughtered on the 14th and eaten that night—the 15th—together with matzah at the onset of the Festival of Matzahs."

The next section says this:

"Oddly, although the weeklong celebration is consistently called the Festival of Matzahs in the Torah, it has come to be known as Pesach, or Passover, in common parlance and even in our liturgy."

"Succeeds" 3rd definition here:

QED
As Josephus says the FEAST SUCCEEDS the PASSOVER
See my previous response
 
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AFrazier

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For clarity, ....

"the evening of the 14th day", is the start of Nissan 15. The days start in the evening at sundown.
"
The “evening” begins at noon, not sunset. It’s from the time that the sun begins moving towards the western horizon.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Yes????? A CIVIL calendar day begins at night. Days of unleavened bread begin in the evening. The feast days each have a sacrifice beginning in the morning of the 15th day
There is a civil calendar, and liturgical calendar etc.
The daily sacrifices are TWO DAILY. First, in the morning and second, in the evening in that order.
The main difference between the civil and liturgical calendars is when the start. One on Nisan 1 and the other in the fall. BTW, that quote I wrote was straight from scripture. What is your point. Yes there were daily sacrifices, so?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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The first day of unleavened bread is the 14th. The 14th itself is even specifically called the first day. So, sorry not sorry . . . You're still wrong.
Um, no. Scripture says you are wrong. "And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD. And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten." I guess you can't count either...
 
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Ace777

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The “evening” begins at noon, not sunset. It’s from the time that the sun begins moving towards the western horizon.
Day begins at sunrise and ends at sunset. They use the word "Horizon" with black holes. This is where the light is able to escape.

1719822706425.jpeg
 
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AFrazier

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Um, no. Scripture says you are wrong. "And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD. And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten." I guess you can't count either...
Scripture doesn't say I'm wrong. Rabbinic tradition doesn't say I'm wrong. Scholarly literature doesn't say I'm wrong. Only you say I'm wrong, because you don't know what you're talking about. So, what I'm going to do is lay the facts out for you. I KNOW that you aren't going to read them, and I fully expect that you'll give some flippant answer to this post. Nevertheless, I'm going to give you the facts and put this to bed. If you choose to argue the point beyond this, then I will choose not to discuss this with you further.

Beginning with the first of the several facts given in the Synoptics, two of them tell us that the day of the Last Supper was the very first day of unleavened bread, which is the 14th day of the month of Nisan.[1] This should not be conflated with any other day of the Passover holiday, as I have heard some attempt to argue. Matthew and Mark both explicitly use the superlative πρώτῃ, meaning the first-most day, or very first day.[2]

Nor should this be confused with the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.[3] Although interrelated, the time of unleavened bread, and the feast of unleavened bread, are two separate things. The feast is a seven-day holiday beginning on the 15th of Nisan, while the first-most day of unleavened bread, when leaven had to be destroyed and unleavened bread had to be eaten, was the 14th of Nisan.[4]

“In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.”[5]

All leaven had to be disposed of on the 14th before the sacrifice of the Passover. It was prohibited beginning at the sixth hour of the day—about noon—on the 14th of Nisan, when it was all burned.[6] In accordance with the scriptures, the more pious, according to the Talmud, began searching for leaven as early as sundown on the 13th of Nisan (considered the twilight of the 14th), which was the first of three general searches made in preparation for the holiday. The second search occurred early on the morning of the 14th day, and the final search was at the time when all leaven had to be removed from the home.[7] At the sixth hour of the day (about noon) on the 14th, just before the daily sacrifices (which began shortly thereafter), they burned all leaven. As the scripture states, “Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven.”[8] It was not to be eaten, or even possessed, from that point forward, until the evening of the 21st.[9]

Relative to these facts, the 14th is, without question, the first day of unleavened bread, as Exodus 12:15 implies, saying that although “Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread,” it is, “even the first day” that “ye shall put away leaven out of your houses [...].”[10] Rabbinical and historical literature both agree with this point of view, based on the same scriptural criteria.[11]

“The School of R. Ishmael taught: ‘We find that the fourteenth is called the first, as it is said, ‘on the first, on the fourteenth day of the month,’’” (Exod. 12:18) and further on, “Raba said, ‘[It is deduced] from here: ‘Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread’: [that means,] thou shalt not kill the Passover sacrifice while leavened bread is still in existence.’”[12]

These statements not only align with the Gospels on the matter, but use the same colloquial nomenclature.

In consideration of these very basic biblical and extra biblical facts, the first day, or even more precisely the very first day, of unleavened bread is the 14th day of Nisan, making the day of the Last Supper one and the same according to the Synoptic representation.

The second significant piece of evidence comes from Mark and Luke, who not only tell us that the day of the Last Supper was the first day of unleavened bread, but that it was the day when they killed the Passover, or per Luke, when the Passover must be killed.[13] This is about as straightforward as it gets when it comes to pinpointing a specific day, even more so than the previous point. From Exodus, we read:

"[…] In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house […] And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening."[14]

The Passover lamb was slain on the 14th day of Nisan. Scripture is quite clear on that point, and scholars, so far as I have read, unanimously agree with this view. It might also be shown that the Passover lamb was slain on the 14th day of Nisan at evening, at the going down of the sun, which rabbinical teachings specify as any time after high noon when the sun starts moving towards the western horizon.[15] To be more specific, the Passover sacrifice was slain about 3:00 in the afternoon following the continual daily offering, unless the Eve of the Passover (the 14th) happened to fall on a Friday. In which case, all the day’s sacrifices were moved back an hour, and it was slain about 2:00 in the afternoon so it could be done before the Sabbath set in. We read in the Talmud:

"The continual (daily) offering was slaughtered half an hour after the eighth hour, and sacrificed half an hour after the ninth hour; but on the day before Passover, whether that day happened to be a week-day or a Sabbath, it was slaughtered half an hour after the seventh hour, and sacrificed half an hour after the eighth hour. When the day before the Passover happened to be a Friday, it was slaughtered half an hour after the sixth hour, sacrificed half an hour after the seventh hour, and the Passover sacrifice celebrated (immediately) afterwards."[16]

"The duty of the tamid properly [begins] from when the evening shadows begin to fall. What is the reason? Because Scripture saith, “between the evenings”, [meaning] from the time that the sun commences to decline in the west. Therefore on other days of the year, when there are vows and freewill-offerings, in connection with which the Divine Law states, [and he shall burn] upon it the fat of the peace-offerings [he-shelamim], and a Master said, “upon it” complete [shalem] all the sacrifices, we therefore postpone it two hours and sacrifice it at eight and a half hours. [But] on the eve of Passover, when there is the Passover offering after it, we advance it one hour and sacrifice it at seven and a half hours. When the eve of Passover falls on the eve of the Sabbath, so that there is the roasting too [to be done], for it does not override the Sabbath, we let it stand on its own law, [viz.,] at six and a half hours."[17]

"And [the controversy of] these Tannaim is like [the controversy of] the other Tannaim in the following Baraitha: There thou shalt sacrifice the passover-offering at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt. R. Eliezer says: 'At even', you sacrifice; 'at sunset', you eat; and 'at the season that thou camest out of Egypt', you must burn [the remainder]. R. Joshua says: 'At even', you 'sacrifice; 'at sunset', you eat; and how long do you continue to eat? Till 'the season that thou camest out of Egypt'"[18]

So as it concerns the second point given by the Synoptics, “when they killed the Passover,” or, “when the Passover must be killed,” they refer to none other than the 14th day of Nisan. On the particular day of the Last Supper in question, assuming a Thursday according to the more popular viewpoint on the day of the crucifixion, the lamb would have been slain about the ninth hour, or 3:00 in the afternoon, as Josephus also testifies.[19]

Following these two very significant pieces of evidence that can be conclusively dated, the rest is incidental by comparison, but no less direct and conspicuous of the date in question. The circumstances and dialog add the icing to the cake. The disciples came to Jesus asking him where he wanted them to prepare for him to eat the Passover, and in response to their inquiry, Jesus sent two of the disciples, John and Peter, to procure a room where he would “keep the Passover,” and where he would “eat the Passover,” and to actually “prepare” them “the Passover,” that they “may eat.”[20] Had we not known that it was the first day of unleavened bread, and the day the Passover was slain, we would still have been able to deduce that it was the day of the Passover by the disciples’ questions, Jesus’ directives, and the disciples’ subsequent actions, seeing that they did as he commanded and made ready the Passover so Jesus and the rest of the disciples could come that very evening at the appointed time and eat.

Furthermore, Peter and John wouldn’t have been “making ready the Passover” that they “may eat” in the place where Jesus would “keep the Passover” with his disciples if it wasn’t the Passover. Legally speaking, the Passover could not be sacrificed early. It was slain on the 14th of the month. Peter and John couldn’t have procured the Passover for the meal if the sacrifices had not yet begun, and if they couldn’t slaughter and roast the Passover, they couldn’t very well have made ready the Passover as it says they did. Again, it was clearly the 14th.

Now, if you have something worthwhile to offer, offer it. The scripture is clear. Rabbinic tradition is clear. Scholarly literature is clear. I'm right. You're not. Your theology and what you want to believe does not trump the direct statements of historical fact written in the Gospels. Jesus ate the Passover. It's a fact. Accept it. And that, by default, puts the crucifixion on the 15th, even if that doesn't agree with your theological philosophy.


[1]. Matt. 26:17; Mk. 14:12; Ex. 12:18; Ex. 23:18, 34:25; bPesah. 11b, 12b, 4b. Luke merely says “the day” of unleavened bread, paired with “when the Passover must be killed,” demonstrating that he intends the same day as the other two by virtue of the Passover sacrifice (Lk. 22:7).
[2]. Matt. 26:17; Mk. 14:12; Ex. 12:18; Ex. 23:18, 34:25; bPesah. 11b, 12b, 4b. Matthew and Mark both say with the superlative πρώτῃ that it is the very first day of unleavened bread.
[3] The Feast of Unleavened Bread was a separate holiday following the Passover, though the “Passover” and the “Feast of Unleavened Bread” were in many cases synonymous with each other, and even used to reference each other (the Feast of Unleavened Bread in some cases is referred to as the Passover, and vice versa). In the case of Matt. 26:17, “the first day of the feast of unleavened bread” does not actually include the words “day” or “feast” in the original text, which is why some versions like the King James italicize them. The New American Standard gives a better reading; “the first day of unleavened bread …,” which provides the necessary “day” for easier reading, but omits the presumptuous “feast” that changes the meaning and date of the day being represented in the passage. The feast begins on the 15th (Exod. 23:6). The first day of unleavened bread is the 14th.
[4] Exod. 12:18.
[5] Exod. 12:18.
[6] bPesah. 11b, 12b, 4b.
[7] bPesah. 2b.
[8] Exod. 34:25.
[9] Exod. 12:18, 34:25; Deut. 16:6; bPesah. 5a.
[10] Exod. 34:25, cf. Exod. 12:3, 6, 15, 18; Deut. 16:6; b.Pesah. 5a, 58a; cf. b.Yoma 28b; Joseph BJ 6.423.
[11] b.Pesah. 5a.
[12] b.Pesah. 5a.
[13] Mk. 14:12, cf. Matt. 26:17-20; Lk. 22:7-8, 13-15.
[14] Exod. 12:3, 6
[15] Exod. 12:6, Deut. 16:1-6
[16] bPesah. 58a; cf bYoma 28b.
[17] bPesah. 58a.
[18] bBer. 9a.
[19] Joseph. BJ 6.423.
[20] Matt. 26:17, Mk. 14:12, Matt. 26:18, Mk. 14:14, Lk. 22:8.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Scripture doesn't say I'm wrong. Rabbinic tradition doesn't say I'm wrong. Scholarly literature doesn't say I'm wrong. Only you say I'm wrong, because you don't know what you're talking about.

Beginning with the first of the several facts given in the Synoptics, two of them tell us that the day of the Last Supper was the very first day of unleavened bread, which is the 14th day of the month of Nisan.[1] This should not be conflated with any other day of the Passover holiday, as I have heard some attempt to argue. Matthew and Mark both explicitly use the superlative πρώτῃ, meaning the first-most day, or very first day.[2]

Nor should this be confused with the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.[3] Although interrelated, the time of unleavened bread, and the feast of unleavened bread, are two separate things. The feast is a seven-day holiday beginning on the 15th of Nisan, while the first-most day of unleavened bread, when leaven had to be destroyed and unleavened bread had to be eaten, was the 14th of Nisan.[4]

“In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.”[5]

All leaven had to be disposed of on the 14th before the sacrifice of the Passover. It was prohibited beginning at the sixth hour of the day—about noon—on the 14th of Nisan, when it was all burned.[6] In accordance with the scriptures, the more pious, according to the Talmud, began searching for leaven as early as sundown on the 13th of Nisan (considered the twilight of the 14th), which was the first of three general searches made in preparation for the holiday. The second search occurred early on the morning of the 14th day, and the final search was at the time when all leaven had to be removed from the home.[7] At the sixth hour of the day (about noon) on the 14th, just before the daily sacrifices (which began shortly thereafter), they burned all leaven. As the scripture states, “Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven.”[8] It was not to be eaten, or even possessed, from that point forward, until the evening of the 21st.[9]

Relative to these facts, the 14th is, without question, the first day of unleavened bread, as Exodus 12:15 implies, saying that although “Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread,” it is, “even the first day” that “ye shall put away leaven out of your houses [...].”[10] Rabbinical and historical literature both agree with this point of view, based on the same scriptural criteria.[11]

“The School of R. Ishmael taught: ‘We find that the fourteenth is called the first, as it is said, ‘on the first, on the fourteenth day of the month,’’” (Exod. 12:18) and further on, “Raba said, ‘[It is deduced] from here: ‘Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread’: [that means,] thou shalt not kill the Passover sacrifice while leavened bread is still in existence.’”[12]

These statements not only align with the Gospels on the matter, but use the same colloquial nomenclature.

In consideration of these very basic biblical and extra biblical facts, the first day, or even more precisely the very first day, of unleavened bread is the 14th day of Nisan, making the day of the Last Supper one and the same according to the Synoptic representation.

The second significant piece of evidence comes from Mark and Luke, who not only tell us that the day of the Last Supper was the first day of unleavened bread, but that it was the day when they killed the Passover, or per Luke, when the Passover must be killed.[13] This is about as straightforward as it gets when it comes to pinpointing a specific day, even more so than the previous point. From Exodus, we read:

"[…] In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house […] And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening."[14]

The Passover lamb was slain on the 14th day of Nisan. Scripture is quite clear on that point, and scholars, so far as I have read, agree with this view almost unanimously, regardless of their persuasions, whether they be for the Synoptics or John. It might also be shown that the Passover lamb was slain on the 14th day of Nisan at evening, at the going down of the sun, which rabbinical teachings specify as any time after high noon when the sun starts moving towards the western horizon.[15] To be more specific, the Passover sacrifice was slain about 3:00 in the afternoon following the continual daily offering, unless the Eve of the Passover (the 14th) happened to fall on a Friday. In which case, all the day’s sacrifices were moved back an hour, and it was slain about 2:00 in the afternoon so it could be done before the Sabbath set in. We read in the Talmud:

"The continual (daily) offering was slaughtered half an hour after the eighth hour, and sacrificed half an hour after the ninth hour; but on the day before Passover, whether that day happened to be a week-day or a Sabbath, it was slaughtered half an hour after the seventh hour, and sacrificed half an hour after the eighth hour. When the day before the Passover happened to be a Friday, it was slaughtered half an hour after the sixth hour, sacrificed half an hour after the seventh hour, and the Passover sacrifice celebrated (immediately) afterwards." (bPesah. 58a; cf bYoma 28b)

"The duty of the tamid properly [begins] from when the evening shadows begin to fall. What is the reason? Because Scripture saith, “between the evenings”, [meaning] from the time that the sun commences to decline in the west. Therefore on other days of the year, when there are vows and freewill-offerings, in connection with which the Divine Law states, [and he shall burn] upon it the fat of the peace-offerings [he-shelamim], and a Master said, “upon it” complete [shalem] all the sacrifices, we therefore postpone it two hours and sacrifice it at eight and a half hours. [But] on the eve of Passover, when there is the Passover offering after it, we advance it one hour and sacrifice it at seven and a half hours. When the eve of Passover falls on the eve of the Sabbath, so that there is the roasting too [to be done], for it does not override the Sabbath, we let it stand on its own law, [viz.,] at six and a half hours."[16]

"And [the controversy of] these Tannaim is like [the controversy of] the other Tannaim in the following Baraitha: There thou shalt sacrifice the passover-offering at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt. R. Eliezer says: 'At even', you sacrifice; 'at sunset', you eat; and 'at the season that thou camest out of Egypt', you must burn [the remainder]. R. Joshua says: 'At even', you 'sacrifice; 'at sunset', you eat; and how long do you continue to eat? Till 'the season that thou camest out of Egypt'" (bBer. 9a)

So as it concerns the second point given by the Synoptics, “when they killed the Passover,” or, “when the Passover must be killed,” they refer to none other than the 14th day of Nisan. On the particular day of the Last Supper in question, assuming a Thursday for the time being according to the more popular viewpoint on the day of the crucifixion, the lamb would have been slain about the ninth hour, or 3:00 in the afternoon, as Josephus also testifies.[17]

Following these two very significant pieces of evidence that can be conclusively dated, the rest is incidental by comparison, but no less direct and conspicuous of the date in question. The circumstances and dialog add the icing to the cake. The disciples came to Jesus asking him where he wanted them to prepare for him to eat the Passover, and in response to their inquiry, Jesus sent two of the disciples, John and Peter, to procure a room where he would “keep the Passover,” and where he would “eat the Passover,” and to actually “prepare” them “the Passover,” that they “may eat.”[18] Had we not known that it was the first day of unleavened bread, and the day the Passover was slain, we would still have been able to deduce that it was the day of the Passover by the disciples’ questions, Jesus’ directives, and the disciples’ subsequent actions, seeing that they did as he commanded and made ready the Passover (not, according to the text, a “Passover-like meal,” as some have suggested) so Jesus and the rest of the disciples could come that very evening at the appointed time and eat.

Furthermore, Peter and John wouldn’t have been “making ready the Passover” that they “may eat” in the place where Jesus would “keep the Passover” with his disciples if it wasn’t the Passover. Legally speaking, the Passover could not be sacrificed early. It was slain on the 14th of the month. Peter and John couldn’t have procured the Passover for the meal if the sacrifices had not yet begun, and if they couldn’t slaughter and roast the Passover, they couldn’t very well have made ready the Passover as it says they did. Again, it was clearly the 14th.

And just to put one errant notion to bed while we’re on this specific point . . . The idea that they were calculating the Passover according to some other dating system is nonsense. They were in Jerusalem. The Beth Din announced the start of the month. The sacrifices had to be done in the temple if they were in Jerusalem. Jesus was quite particular in stating that it was the duty of the people to do as instructed by those who sit in Moses’ seat. To do otherwise was sinful. Jews who lived far off sometimes celebrated festivals on different days due to the time involved in communication, but the Passover was one of three festivals where they were all required to come to Jerusalem. Even Jesus and the disciples clearly began making their way towards Jerusalem near at approach of the coming festival.

Now, if you have something worthwhile to offer, offer it. The scripture is clear. Rabbinic tradition is clear. Scholarly literature is clear. I'm right. You're not. Your theology and what you want to believe does not trump the direct statements of historical fact written in the Gospels. Jesus ate the Passover. It's a fact. And that, by default, puts the crucifixion on the 15th, even if that doesn't agree with your theological philosophy.


[1]. Matt. 26:17; Mk. 14:12; Ex. 12:18; Ex. 23:18, 34:25; bPesah. 11b, 12b, 4b. Luke merely says “the day” of unleavened bread, paired with “when the Passover must be killed,” demonstrating that he intends the same day as the other two by virtue of the Passover sacrifice (Lk. 22:7).
[2]. Matt. 26:17; Mk. 14:12; Ex. 12:18; Ex. 23:18, 34:25; bPesah. 11b, 12b, 4b. Matthew and Mark both say with the superlative πρώτῃ that it is the very first day of unleavened bread.
[3] The Feast of Unleavened Bread was a separate holiday following the Passover, though the “Passover” and the “Feast of Unleavened Bread” were in many cases synonymous with each other, and even used to reference each other (the Feast of Unleavened Bread in some cases is referred to as the Passover, and vice versa). In the case of Matthew 26:17, “the first day of the feast of unleavened bread” does not actually include the words “day” or “feast” in the original text, which is why some versions like the King James italicize them. The New American Standard gives a better reading; “the first day of unleavened bread …,” which provides the necessary “day” for easier reading, but omits the presumptuous “feast” that changes the meaning and date of the day being represented in the passage. The feast begins on the 15th (Exodus 23:6). The first day of unleavened bread is the 14th.
[4] Exod. 12:18.
[5] Exod. 12:18.
[6] bPesah. 11b, 12b, 4b.
[7] bPesah. 2b.
[8] Exod. 34:25.
[9] Exod. 12:18, 34:25; Deut. 16:6; bPesah. 5a.
[10] Exod. 34:25, cf. Exod. 12:3, 6, 15, 18; Deut. 16:6; b.Pesah. 5a, 58a; cf. b.Yoma 28b; Joseph BJ 6.423.
[11] b.Pesah. 5a.
[12] b.Pesah. 5a.
[13] Mark 14:12, cf. Matthew 26:17-20; Luke 22:7-8, 13-15.
[14] Exod. 12:3, 6
[15] Exodus 12:6, Deuteronomy 16:1-6
[16] bPesah. 58a.
[17] Joseph BJ 6.423.
[18] Matthew 26:17, Mark 14:12, Matthew 26:18, Mark 14:14, Luke 22:8
LOL, is that from your "book"? You are agreeing with what I said LOL! Again, we do not disagree that the leaven was taken away on the 14th and the lambs were slain that day. Passover is on the 14th as scriptures plainly say. The feast of unleavened is from the 15th to the 21st. "And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD. And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten." What we disagree on is if Yeshua ate the actual passover and was killed on the 14th (what I say) or the 15th (which you assert). Another problem you have is what prophesies does your hagigah/15th scenario fulfill? Almost none. So why would the NT describe all of these fulfilled prophecies then? What you need to ask yourself is what is, and more importantly what is NOT, allowed on the 15th. Answer that question and you will plainly see that you are dead wrong...
 
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AFrazier

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LOL, is that from your "book"? You are agreeing with what I said LOL! Again, we do not disagree that the leaven was taken away on the 14th and the lambs were slain that day. Passover is on the 14th as scriptures plainly say. The feast of unleavened is from the 15th to the 21st. "And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD. And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten." What we disagree on is if Yeshua ate the actual passover and was killed on the 14th (what I say) or the 15th (which you assert). Another problem you have is what prophesies does your hagigah/15th scenario fulfill? Almost none. So why would the NT describe all of these fulfilled prophecies then? What you need to ask yourself is what is, and more importantly what is NOT, allowed on the 15th. Answer that question and you will plainly see that you are dead wrong...
According to your own words, you say that Jesus ate the Passover and was killed on the 14th. Given that Jesus was arrested after the Last Supper and crucified the next morning, you don't see a problem with that?

Edit: Sorry, you question whether he ate the Passover. I misread what you said.

We aren't in disagreement. You are in disagreement. The Gospels are plain as day that he ate the Passover. You're the one who has a problem with that.

Edit: And yes, it's from my book, which I have spent almost thirty years researching. What, exactly, is funny about it? Is that who you are? Someone who laughs at the hard work of others? Perhaps this isn't a fruitful conversation. I think I'll leave you to it.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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According to your own words, you say that Jesus ate the Passover and was killed on the 14th. Given that Jesus was arrested after the Last Supper and crucified the next morning, you don't see a problem with that?

Edit: Sorry, you question whether he ate the Passover. I misread what you said.

We aren't in disagreement. You are in disagreement. The Gospels are plain as day that he ate the Passover. You're the one who has a problem with that.

Edit: And yes, it's from my book, which I have spent almost thirty years researching. What, exactly, is funny about it? Is that who you are? Someone who laughs at the hard work of others? Perhaps this isn't a fruitful conversation. I think I'll leave you to it.
Well you need to do more research then because you have LARGE glaring holes in your theory as I have pointed out to you MANY times. Again, answer the question I posed regarding the 15th and you will see how wrong you are.
 
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Well you need to do more research then because you have LARGE glaring holes in your theory as I have pointed out to you MANY times. Again, answer the question I posed regarding the 15th and you will see how wrong you are.
You remind me of the Sadducees who tempted Christ with questions of brothers dying and whose wife a woman would be.

The scriptures are plain as day. You are wrong. It's not debatable. And you look more and more foolish to me every time you try to say that I'm wrong when the scriptures have been posted.

Fact: Jesus sent Peter and John to prepare the Passover.
Fact: Peter and John prepared the Passover.
Fact: the afternoon prior to the last supper was the day the lambs were killed.
Fact: the lamb were killed on the 14th.
Fact: the afternoon prior to the last supper was the first day of unleavened bread.
Fact: the first day of unleavened bread was the 14th. All leaven had to be burned by noon.
Fact: Jesus said he would keep the Passover.

You're just wrong. And I'm not going to argue with someone who can't acknowledge such simple truths. There's a word for someone who isn't able to learn.
 
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notRusskiyMir

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The “evening” begins at noon, not sunset. It’s from the time that the sun begins moving towards the western horizon.
You remind me of the Sadducees who tempted Christ with questions of brothers dying and whose wife a woman would be.

The scriptures are plain as day. You are wrong. It's not debatable. And you look more and more foolish to me every time you try to say that I'm wrong when the scriptures have been posted.

Fact: Jesus sent Peter and John to prepare the Passover.
Fact: Peter and John prepared the Passover.
Fact: the afternoon prior to the last supper was the day the lambs were killed.
Fact: the lamb were killed on the 14th.
Fact: the afternoon prior to the last supper was the first day of unleavened bread.
Fact: the first day of unleavened bread was the 14th. All leaven had to be burned by noon.
Fact: Jesus said he would keep the Passover.

You're just wrong. And I'm not going to argue with someone who can't acknowledge such simple truths. There's a word for someone who isn't able to learn.
You are confused because you refuse to credit what John 19:14 says. The Synoptics are at best confusing on the sequence of events and dates. The Gospel of John steps in for clarity. With John there is no confusion. All is aligned with Jewish practice of the day.

The western Churches have adopted the Synoptics sequence and have a tangled mess, while the Orthodox have adopted the Johannine version and are at ease.

The Last Supper was NOT the Passover. It was NOT a seder. Regular bread was on the table. Jesus had to be buried before the Passover meal. That was the rush to do so. Jesus died on Nissan 14, the same date as the Paschal Lamb was sacrificed. Accept John 19:14 and be at ease!
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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You remind me of the Sadducees who tempted Christ with questions of brothers dying and whose wife a woman would be.

The scriptures are plain as day. You are wrong. It's not debatable. And you look more and more foolish to me every time you try to say that I'm wrong when the scriptures have been posted.

Fact: Jesus sent Peter and John to prepare the Passover.
Fact: Peter and John prepared the Passover.
Fact: the afternoon prior to the last supper was the day the lambs were killed.
Fact: the lamb were killed on the 14th.
Fact: the afternoon prior to the last supper was the first day of unleavened bread.
Fact: the first day of unleavened bread was the 14th. All leaven had to be burned by noon.
Fact: Jesus said he would keep the Passover.

You're just wrong. And I'm not going to argue with someone who can't acknowledge such simple truths. There's a word for someone who isn't able to learn.
LOL. Yes they are plain as day and that makes YOU dead wrong because you do not understand them. Again, answer the question I posed regarding the 15th and you will see how wrong you are. Yes Chamatz is prohibited on part of the 14th but that does not make it the 1st of unleavened...which is 7 days (15-21st), not 8 days.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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LOL. Yes they are plain as day and that makes YOU dead wrong because you do not understand them. Again, answer the question I posed regarding the 15th and you will see how wrong you are. Yes Chamatz is prohibited on part of the 14th but that does not make it the 1st of unleavened...which is 7 days (15-21st), not 8 days.

It is forbidden to eat chametz on the day of the fourteenth [of Nisan] from noon onward—i.e., from the beginning of the seventh hour of the day. Any person who eats chametz during this time is punished by lashes according to Torah law, as [Deuteronomy 16:3] states: "Do not eat any leaven with it "; i.e., together with the Paschal sacrifice. Based on the oral tradition, we received the interpretation of that statement as: Do not eat any chametz during the time which is fit to slaughter the Paschal sacrifice, that being the afternoon—i.e., after midday.
 
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