Exodus evidence

[Hans Blaster]

remember you are being ignored.

When you ignore someone, you don't see their posts, but they can still see yours.

 

[common prophets]

What is yr evidence?

 

[Ace777]

When you ignore someone, you don't see their posts, but they can still see yours.

There are a lot of people and a lot of posts I do not respond to because they seem so negative about everything. With the problems I have with my health it is essential for me to stay positive and avoid negative people.

 

[Astrid]

What is yr evidence?

What is yr topic

 

[AV1611VET]

There are a lot of people and a lot of posts I do not respond to because they seem so negative about everything. With the problems I have with my health it is essential for me to stay positive and avoid negative people.

Be careful, Ace.

 

[Ace777]

Be careful, Ace.

We can never be careful enough. My brother just died and instead of resolving issues all of a sudden they seem to be worse with the same people in there trying to stir up problems where no problems exist. Even my wife has a big family they all seem to get along. I am more comfortable with them than I am my own family. Maybe that is why I married her

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Really, what am I claiming?

From your own post, #135:
"Go to any museum in the middle east and their storage room is filled with evidence that they would not dare to put on display."

 

[Ace777]

From your own post, #135:
"Go to any museum in the middle east and their storage room is filled with evidence that they would not dare to put on display."

You do not like the word "dare"? Ok edit that word out. The fact remains that It’s fascinating how museums often hold a wealth of artifacts and historical items that aren’t always on public display. These hidden treasures can provide valuable insights into various cultures, beliefs, and historical events. If you ever get the chance to explore those museum storage rooms, you might uncover some remarkable pieces!

I have shown evidence from Isis themselves that they admit to destroying ancient historic artifacts.

Certainly! Museum storage rooms often house a fascinating array of artifacts that aren’t always on public display. Here are some examples:

1. Textiles and Fabrics: Ancient textiles, clothing, and tapestries provide insights into historical fashion, craftsmanship, and cultural practices.
2. Pottery and Ceramics: Fragments of pottery, vases, and ceramic vessels reveal artistic styles, trade routes, and daily life in different civilizations.
3. Archaeological Tools: Tools used by archaeologists, such as brushes, trowels, and measuring instruments, are essential artifacts for understanding excavation techniques.
4. Natural History Specimens: Fossils, minerals, and preserved animal specimens help scientists study evolution, geology, and biodiversity.
5. Ethnographic Objects: Masks, tribal artifacts, and indigenous tools showcase cultural diversity and traditions from around the world.
6. Documents and Manuscripts: Letters, scrolls, and ancient manuscripts provide historical context and reveal personal stories.
7. Weapons and Armor: Swords, shields, and armor from different time periods illustrate military technology and warfare.

Remember, these artifacts contribute to our understanding of humanity’s past and enrich our knowledge of art, science, and culture!

 

[Ophiolite]

You do not like the word "dare"? Ok edit that word out. The fact remains that It’s fascinating how museums often hold a wealth of artifacts and historical items that aren’t always on public display. These hidden treasures can provide valuable insights into various cultures, beliefs, and historical events. If you ever get the chance to explore those museum storage rooms, you might uncover some remarkable pieces!

I have shown evidence from Isis themselves that they admit to destroying ancient historic artifacts.

Certainly! Museum storage rooms often house a fascinating array of artifacts that aren’t always on public display. Here are some examples:

1. Textiles and Fabrics: Ancient textiles, clothing, and tapestries provide insights into historical fashion, craftsmanship, and cultural practices.
2. Pottery and Ceramics: Fragments of pottery, vases, and ceramic vessels reveal artistic styles, trade routes, and daily life in different civilizations.
3. Archaeological Tools: Tools used by archaeologists, such as brushes, trowels, and measuring instruments, are essential artifacts for understanding excavation techniques.
4. Natural History Specimens: Fossils, minerals, and preserved animal specimens help scientists study evolution, geology, and biodiversity.
5. Ethnographic Objects: Masks, tribal artifacts, and indigenous tools showcase cultural diversity and traditions from around the world.
6. Documents and Manuscripts: Letters, scrolls, and ancient manuscripts provide historical context and reveal personal stories.
7. Weapons and Armor: Swords, shields, and armor from different time periods illustrate military technology and warfare.

Remember, these artifacts contribute to our understanding of humanity’s past and enrich our knowledge of art, science, and culture!

You have implied, if not downright asserted, that the museum authorities are concealing much of their material from the public, as a deliberate policy of withholding the knowledge such material might impart. That is nonsense.
Museums have limited budgets. They could not afford to simultabeously display all of their material. Nor would such a display, were it possible, be a good way of fulfilling one of their missions - to educate the public. Rather they selectively display the best and most relevant examples with explanations of their significance. Many museums rotate the pieces in storage with those on exhbit. Your implication they are engaged in deliberate concealment is nonsense.
Your mention of Isis destroying ancient artifacts is not in dispute. What is in dispute is the way you presented this as if it supported your view that museum authorities were hiding something. Again, more nonsense.
Your list of materials held by museums serves no purpose. I would be amazed if readers of this thread were unaware of this. In what way do you feel it supports your initial argument?

 

[eclipsenow]

Mt Hermon however is just south of Damascus, yet Habiru activity extends north to Kadesh which some 60-70 years later was the site of the first recorded pitched battle in history and resultant peace treaty between the Egyptian and Hittite empires.

Then there are the references to the Habiru in far off places such as modern Turkey, Cyprus and Iraq which strongly supports the original meaning of Habiru as a generic term describing the social status of people such as rebels, outlaws, raiders, mercenaries, bowmen, servants, slaves, and laborers.

It is the chronology however which completely destroys the idea of the Habiru being Israelites, they are also mentioned in texts centuries older than the Armana letters by the Sumerians who referred to the Habiru as trespassers.

Exactly! I'm no historian - goodness - Egyptology isn't even a hobby for me. (So many fascinating subjects - so little time!)

But even I remember the day I was briefly reading up on this and worked out Kadesh was a real problem for 'early Israel' theories.
Kadesh would mean Egypt waltzed all over Israel to get to the Hittites! What - did Israel just wave the Egyptians through to fight the Hittites? Just ignored the fact that their former slave masters were wanting to cross their territory - armed to the back teeth? Why didn't the Egyptians, shamed by the Israelite escape a generation back, seek revenge on them then? Why wouldn't they deal with a former enemy before then going on to fight the Hittites? Well - in fact it seems exactly that happened - only they conquered Canaan - not Israel.

Kadesh is known as the "First world war of the ancient world." It was huge. I forget how many centuries it would be before a war of similar size broke out again.

Now, Professional Egyptologist and Christian James Hoffmeier says there is only ONE written reference to Israel outside of the bible.

Hoffmeier says the Merneptah Stele is particularly important because “it tells us that by the year 1208BC, there was a people group living in the land of Canaan called ‘Israel'”.​

​

Before 1208BC, Hoffmeier says there is some evidence that “Semites” – lived in Egypt as “foreigners”, somewhere between Egypt’s Middle Kingdom (approx 2030 – 1650 BC) and the New Kingdom (approx. 1570 – 1069 BC).​

​

“Prisoners of war were brought back from military campaigns and the like,” says Hoffmeier. “So you have these foreign Canaanites, Syrians and Semites … and they stand out in reliefs or paintings in Egypt on tombs etc because they have blonde hair. Foreigners are not depicted in the same way as Egyptians, and Semites typically have scruffy beards and so on. So the Egyptians not only recognised their presence, but depicted them.”​

​

Is the Exodus fact or fiction?

The archaeological hints that the Exodus really happened

www.eternitynews.com.au

​

But why read about it when you can listen to the awesome John Dickson podcast about it - complete with Charlton Heston sound bytes and other interactive bits. Here's another plug for probably my favourite Christian podcast. The Exodus - Undeceptions

(For full disclosure, my second favourite podcast is William Lane Craig's "Reasonable Faith". Then for a fun theological chat with cultural review and movie reviews try "With All Due Respect" - with a Sydney, Australia vibe. Don't get me started on my Greenie podcasts! )

 

[rvs]

They did.

The "blessing tablet" is on Mt Gerizim.

Deuteronomy 11:29 And it shall come to pass, when the LORD thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt put the blessing upon mount Gerizim, and the curse upon mount Ebal.

@AV1611VET

So they had a blessing tablet as well. Was it difficult to be among the people of this tribe because I've heard they wrestled with God? Did they all wrestle, or just some? How did the blessing tablet help them?

What caused a blessing upon Mount Gerizim and yet a curse upon Mount Ebal? How did they process this, and when were there 613 laws where goats ran off the mountain to take care of the laws that were broken? Yet how come no one checked to make sure there were no broken bones? Because if an animal has a broken bone, then it'll be considered not a sacrifice because they would have to kill the animal goat due to a broken bone, yet no one went and checked to see if any bones were broken in order to prove it's a sacrifice, showing no other motivations. Which mountains did these goats run off of? Was it at all these two mountains, Gerizim and Ebal?

 

[rvs]

The bigger problem is people are split between exodus as myth and exodus with no evidence. Unwilling to see exodus is truth if from indus valley

@common prophets

Were there any volcanoes near the Indus Valley, and how did these volcanoes affect any rivers? Compare to any other mountains from other views of Exodus?

How would you, @common prophets study your views and analyze Scott Stripling's views about these mountains and their effects?

Any further thoughts about mountains? @Mrpp, study all the effects.

 

[AV1611VET]

So they had a blessing tablet as well.

Yes.

Was it difficult to be among the people of this tribe ...

What tribe?

... because I've heard they wrestled with God?

If you're talking about all twelve tribes of Israel, you heard right.

Jacob wrestled with God at Peniel.

Genesis 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.

Did they all wrestle, or just some?

Jacob did.

How did the blessing tablet help them?

Several ways.

Deuteronomy 11:13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,
14 That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.
15 And I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest eat and be full.

Deuteronomy 11:22 For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;
23 Then will the LORD drive out all these nations from before you, and ye shall possess greater nations and mightier than yourselves.
24 Every place whereon the soles of your feet shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the uttermost sea shall your coast be.
25 There shall no man be able to stand before you: for the LORD your God shall lay the fear of you and the dread of you upon all the land that ye shall tread upon, as he hath said unto you.

What caused a blessing upon Mount Gerizim and yet a curse upon Mount Ebal?

God's intervention.

How did they process this,

Exodus 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

... and when were there 613 laws where goats ran off the mountain to take care of the laws that were broken?

There was no such occurrence, as far as I know.

You must be thinking of the maniac of Gadara.

Mark 5:13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

Yet how come no one checked to make sure there were no broken bones?

Believe me, they did.

Because if an animal has a broken bone, then it'll be considered not a sacrifice ...

Correct.

... because they would have to kill the animal goat due to a broken bone,

Where did you hear that?

... yet no one went and checked to see if any bones were broken in order to prove it's a sacrifice,

Animals were kept in ward for observation purposes.

 

[rvs]

Because it says, "You have insufficient privileges to reply here." at @tonychanyt thread called: Did Abraham know the name YHWH? I'll address it here.

@tonychanyt you shared:

"Eve might have actually said Adonai instead of YHWH. Eve probably did not know the tetragrammaton at all. Later, when Moses wrote Genesis, he wrote the tetragrammaton here to identify Eve's God to his God. The Jews could write the Tetragrammaton, but they basically never pronounced it."

@rvs response:
I wonder how Moses knew of his death and then wrote, or who wrote? How does one write their death? Did Moses know when he'd die?

Without vowels in other words too, such as KMT for Egypt. Yet the word Egypt is in the Bible. How come? Egypt is modern word.

YHWH without vowels, yet I think they spoke with vowels, just didn't write with vowels, and lots of people didn't know how to read. What caste was able to read, and how did this give leadership to them because they can read?

So if Eve spoke in what language, it would be the same for future readers to read from the modern name Egypt in the Bible. Who chose what words for the Bible and to whom did they speak? For example, what words did Eve speak? Did these translators not realize the vocabulary that Eve had spoken?
How difficult is it to translate the Bible and all the borrowed loan words from what languages they came from before?
Borrow loan words: What are we learning about? Where did the borrowed loan word YHWH come from, and how come YHWH was jealous? What God did Eve interact with, and was this God jealous too?

I almost forgot to address the question, "Did Abraham know the word YHWH?" so I'll do this now.

When was the letter H added to Abram?

During the time when the letter H was added, did these people know the word YHWH?

Notice Abraham has vowels what would Abraham's name be without vowels.

I need to explore this more?

The Hebrew letter 'H' is of two numbers, 1 and 4. I do not know the numbers for YW. Does anyone here know? Remember, I know the numbers for H (YHWH).

1 is Yud, and 4 is Dalet. (ה) is the letter H. means what?

 

[AV1611VET]

I wonder how Moses knew of his death ...

It was no secret.

Numbers 27:12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Get thee up into this mount Abarim, and see the land which I have given unto the children of Israel.
13 And when thou hast seen it, thou also shalt be gathered unto thy people, as Aaron thy brother was gathered.

... and then wrote, or who wrote?

Probably Joshua.

How does one write their death?

Like Jesus did?

Did Moses know when he'd die?

Yes.

So if Eve spoke in what language,

Jacobean English

... it would be the same for future readers to read from the modern name Egypt in the Bible.

Correct.

Who chose what words for the Bible and to whom did they speak?

The human authors (amanuenses) chose their own words; with God superintending.

We call that "verbal plenary inspiration."

For example, what words did Eve speak?

Jacobean English

Did these translators not realize the vocabulary that Eve had spoken?

Yes.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

How difficult is it to translate the Bible and all the borrowed loan words from what languages they came from before?

It's no easy task.

Ask any missionary, called of God for just that task.

Borrow loan words: What are we learning about?

No comment.

Where did the borrowed loan word YHWH come from,

Satan.

I believe that Satan calls JEHOVAH by the name Yahweh, to get him back for changing his name from Lucifer to Satan.

... and how come YHWH was jealous?

I wouldn't be jealous.

I'd be mad.

What God did Eve interact with,

The same one we all do.

... and was this God jealous too?

Deuteronomy 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

I almost forgot to address the question, "Did Abraham know the word YHWH?" so I'll do this now.

If he did, we wouldn't know.

When was the letter H added to Abram?

According to tongue speakers, the letters HA, which are indicative of the Holy Spirit (don't ask me how), were added to Abram to make his name AbraHAm, when he got saved.

During the time when the letter H was added, did these people know the word YHWH?

I don't know.

Satan started using it to mock God.

I would say any Israelite who would hear that word considered it blasphemy.

Notice Abraham has vowels what would Abraham's name be without vowels.

Brhm

 

[Ace777]

Probably Joshua.

The people who give us our Hebrew Bible tells us that the Bible was oral tradition and not written down until the temple was destroyed.

 

[AV1611VET]

The people who give us our Hebrew Bible tells us that the Bible was oral tradition and not written down until the temple was destroyed.

I don't use a Hebrew bible.

I use the AV1611 King James Bible.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

You do not like the word "dare"? Ok edit that word out. The fact remains that It’s fascinating how museums often hold a wealth of artifacts and historical items that aren’t always on public display. These hidden treasures can provide valuable insights into various cultures, beliefs, and historical events. If you ever get the chance to explore those museum storage rooms, you might uncover some remarkable pieces!

I have shown evidence from Isis themselves that they admit to destroying ancient historic artifacts.

Certainly! Museum storage rooms often house a fascinating array of artifacts that aren’t always on public display. Here are some examples:

1. Textiles and Fabrics: Ancient textiles, clothing, and tapestries provide insights into historical fashion, craftsmanship, and cultural practices.
2. Pottery and Ceramics: Fragments of pottery, vases, and ceramic vessels reveal artistic styles, trade routes, and daily life in different civilizations.
3. Archaeological Tools: Tools used by archaeologists, such as brushes, trowels, and measuring instruments, are essential artifacts for understanding excavation techniques.
4. Natural History Specimens: Fossils, minerals, and preserved animal specimens help scientists study evolution, geology, and biodiversity.
5. Ethnographic Objects: Masks, tribal artifacts, and indigenous tools showcase cultural diversity and traditions from around the world.
6. Documents and Manuscripts: Letters, scrolls, and ancient manuscripts provide historical context and reveal personal stories.
7. Weapons and Armor: Swords, shields, and armor from different time periods illustrate military technology and warfare.

Remember, these artifacts contribute to our understanding of humanity’s past and enrich our knowledge of art, science, and culture!

The fact of ISIS destroying historical pre-Islamic artifacts is in no way shape or form the same as your claim that museums in the Middle East have actively hidden evidence for the Exodus.

 

[sjastro]

Exactly! I'm no historian - goodness - Egyptology isn't even a hobby for me. (So many fascinating subjects - so little time!)

But even I remember the day I was briefly reading up on this and worked out Kadesh was a real problem for 'early Israel' theories.
Kadesh would mean Egypt waltzed all over Israel to get to the Hittites! What - did Israel just wave the Egyptians through to fight the Hittites? Just ignored the fact that their former slave masters were wanting to cross their territory - armed to the back teeth? Why didn't the Egyptians, shamed by the Israelite escape a generation back, seek revenge on them then? Why wouldn't they deal with a former enemy before then going on to fight the Hittites? Well - in fact it seems exactly that happened - only they conquered Canaan - not Israel.

Kadesh is known as the "First world war of the ancient world." It was huge. I forget how many centuries it would be before a war of similar size broke out again.

Now, Professional Egyptologist and Christian James Hoffmeier says there is only ONE written reference to Israel outside of the bible.

Hoffmeier says the Merneptah Stele is particularly important because “it tells us that by the year 1208BC, there was a people group living in the land of Canaan called ‘Israel'”.​

​

Before 1208BC, Hoffmeier says there is some evidence that “Semites” – lived in Egypt as “foreigners”, somewhere between Egypt’s Middle Kingdom (approx 2030 – 1650 BC) and the New Kingdom (approx. 1570 – 1069 BC).​

​

“Prisoners of war were brought back from military campaigns and the like,” says Hoffmeier. “So you have these foreign Canaanites, Syrians and Semites … and they stand out in reliefs or paintings in Egypt on tombs etc because they have blonde hair. Foreigners are not depicted in the same way as Egyptians, and Semites typically have scruffy beards and so on. So the Egyptians not only recognised their presence, but depicted them.”​

​

Is the Exodus fact or fiction?

The archaeological hints that the Exodus really happened

www.eternitynews.com.au

​

But why read about it when you can listen to the awesome John Dickson podcast about it - complete with Charlton Heston sound bytes and other interactive bits. Here's another plug for probably my favourite Christian podcast. The Exodus - Undeceptions

(For full disclosure, my second favourite podcast is William Lane Craig's "Reasonable Faith". Then for a fun theological chat with cultural review and movie reviews try "With All Due Respect" - with a Sydney, Australia vibe. Don't get me started on my Greenie podcasts! )

Let’s clear up some issues here.
The Egyptians never conquered Israel because Israel (and Judah) never existed at the time.
Both kingdoms came into existence by the 10th century BC a century after the collapse of Egyptian control and the Amarna letters which this thread is based on were written some four centuries beforehand.

In the Amarna letters Jerusalem is mentioned as “Urusalim” where the Canaanite ruler Abdi-Heba who was a vassal of the pharaoh (most likely Amenhotep III) wrote several letters to the pharaoh, requesting military assistance to defend against his enemies.
Adi-Heba was clearly not an Israelite as his name means "servant of Ḫebat", a Hurrian goddess.

The Merneptah Stele from the 13th century BC, the reference to Israel was to a nomadic or semi nomadic people, not a kingdom or a confederation of city states who threatened Egypt’s vassal city states.
This evidence further supports the Exodus never occurred as the Israelites were indigenous to Canaan, they never migrated to Egypt to be enslaved and eventually escape back to Canaan.

 

[rvs]

I use the AV1611 King James Bible.

@AV1611VET what things do you like about King James compared to other kings?

What brings you to favor the interpretation from King James? Were there any other kings who interpreted? I wonder what a Christian named Scott Striplings views about King James.

The people who give us our Hebrew Bible tells us that the Bible was oral tradition and not written down until the temple was destroyed.

What was the ink made from? How did they rewrite by erasing this ink due to mistakes? Do you ever wish to visit this temple that was destroyed? If so, could you share your experiences in this thread?

According to tongue speakers, the letters HA, which are indicative of the Holy Spirit (don't ask me how), were added to Abram to make his name AbraHAm, when he got saved.

I thought Ab meant father. So putting Ab before a name is claiming father. So Abram is Father Ram. So to add more to the name Abram, you @AV1611VET claim HA means saved?

But even I remember the day I was briefly reading up on this and worked out Kadesh was a real problem for 'early Israel' theories.
Kadesh would mean Egypt waltzed all over Israel to get to the Hittites! What - did Israel just wave the Egyptians through to fight the Hittites? Just ignored the fact that their former slave masters were wanting to cross their territory - armed to the back teeth? Why didn't the Egyptians, shamed by the Israelite escape a generation back, seek revenge on them then? Why wouldn't they deal with a former enemy before then going on to fight the Hittites? Well - in fact it seems exactly that happened - only they conquered Canaan - not Israel.

@eclipsenow

• Early Date: The Exodus Took Place in the Fifteenth Century BC (Scott Stripling who is a Christian)
• Late Date: A Historical Exodus in the Thirteenth Century BC (James K. Hoffmeier who is a Christian)

@eclipsenow you asked, "Why didn't the Egyptians, shamed by the Israelite escape a generation back, seek revenge on them then? Why wouldn't they deal with a former enemy before then going on to fight the Hittites? Well - in fact it seems exactly that happened - only they conquered Canaan - not Israel."

My question from your question is: Was this drought affecting Hittites and causing this lack of Egyptians to fight them because of more emergency needs? Yet, however, the stresses from a drought resulted in challenges and emotional changes later.

Because red soil is a dessert that was governed by who? While the black soil was governed by who? The black soil is not a desert; yet, did the drought cause damage to the black soil, causing the Egyptians to seek revenge on who rather than focusing on the drought-caused black soil damage?

But what about the food storage and water that gathered in cisterns carved into bedrock or soil to capture and store water? Wouldn't that have calmed their feelings and helped them to live peacefully during this drought? KMT (Egypt) increased their lands called the Levant, where people lived. What causes borders and reasons to claim them?