Can you be Christian and believe in evolution?

[trophy33]

Gen 1 did not mean God created Jewish temples. You learned wrong

"Jewish temples"? Creation is not a "Jewish" temple. Genesis 1 is written in a mythological drama genre, in the form of a temple inauguration. The text means the whole creation is God's temple.

It was written for me as well. Not just the Jewish slaves.

"Jewish slaves"? Not sure where you got the idea it was written for you, but it certainly was not written to you. It was written by ancient people to ancient people and if you are unwilling to learn their thinking to understand them, you will abuse the text by eisegesis.

No God wrote. He wrote truth. Not drama. He wrote in a way that was to be known to us!

Bible, including Genesis, was not written by God. And Bible is not written to us, but to them. We must learn about them to understand what was written.

No. You do not. You guess. You have an opinion.
Total nonsense. The bible said no such thing.
No, there was no life on earth. You are in direct opposition to God on that.
In your dreams perhaps. Not in the bible.

A series of denials without any reasoning or facts, again.

You thought they were dark dots?

Nope. They are real objects in space.

 

[truthpls]

It has everything to do with Genesis and the oral tradition and where we get our Bible from.

Specifically then, how does it add to Gen 1?

 

[trophy33]

I use the Hebrew Bible. I have read the Bible at least 5 times cover to cover. I have studied enough to know that Bishop Usshers book is true.

Using just one source is bad for any conclusions.

 

[truthpls]

"Jewish temples"? Creation is not a "Jewish" temple. Genesis 1 is written in a mythological drama genre, in the form of a temple inauguration. The text means the whole creation is God's temple.

I see. That seems fine, that you like to see God creating earth and the heavens as His temple. One thing about that view that seems a bit off is that this is a fallen world. He also will recreate the heavens and earth with the heavens disappearing. Do you think that fits the idea of a building inauguration?

"Jewish slaves"?

Right, for example if Moses wrote Genesis, He led a bunch of slaves.

Not sure where you got the idea it was written for you, but it certainly was not written to you.

Yes it was written for those alive today as well as people of yesterday. That is clear. For example Jesus pointed out that He had other sheep.

It was written by ancient people to ancient people and if you are unwilling to learn their thinking to understand them, you will abuse the text by eisegesis.

False. It was written for the generation today as well. In fact there is a whopping percentage of the bible that is all about the final days. People long ago would not even really understand it fully.

Bible, including Genesis, was not written by God.

False. By inspiring it, He wrote it through men.

Nope. They are real objects in space.

Yes the stars and sun are real, glad we straightened that out.

 

[trophy33]

I see. That seems fine, that you like to see God creating earth and the heavens as His temple. One thing about that view that seems a bit off is that this is a fallen world. He also will recreate the heavens and earth with the heavens disappearing. Do you think that fits the idea of a building inauguration?

Genesis 1 is not about the fall. Genesis 2 is about the fall and its a different story and has even a different author, most probably. It was only composed to one book, later.

Right, for example if Moses wrote Genesis, He led a bunch of slaves.

The existence of the book of Genesis was unknown till after the Babylonian exile.

Yes it was written for those alive today as well as people of yesterday. That is clear. For example Jesus pointed out that He had other sheep.

This does not seem like a coherent logic.

False. It was written for the generation today as well. In fact there is a whopping percentage of the bible that is all about the final days. People long ago would not even really understand it fully.

Thats just your interpretation.

False. By inspiring it, He wrote it through men.

You say "false" and then you actually support its true. Bible was not written by God, but by people. In their language, in their cultural concepts. God did not correct their cosmology, anatomy, biology, botany etc. He did not reveal scientific concepts to them, He did not dictate any list of canonical books to them etc.

Yes the stars and sun are real, glad we straightened that out.

Cool. Genesis 1 (and the rest of the Bible) does not know that, though.

 

[truthpls]

Genesis 1 is not about the fall.

Correct. It is about creation

Genesis 2 is about the fall and its a different story and has even a different author, most probably. It was only composed to one book, later.

No. Gen 2 is going back over what was done already with more details on some things.

The existence of the book of Genesis was unknown till after the Babylonian exile.

If Moses wrote it that doesn't matter (when you see some copy)

You say "false" and then you actually support its true. Bible was not written by God, but by people. In their language, in their cultural concepts. God did not correct their cosmology, anatomy, biology, botany etc.

It is like it was dictated to men by God. The cosmology is perfect. If you are suggesting mistakes elsewhere, let's see one.

Cool. Genesis 1 (and the rest of the Bible) does not know that, though.

The bible knows it. You may not understand the bible, that is another matter.

 

[trophy33]

Correct. It is about creation

I am glad we clarified what the text of Genesis 1 is about.

No. Gen 2 is going back over what was done already with more details on some things.

Thats just your claim. Its supported neither by the text itself, nor by the external evidence. Its a totally different type of text, in a different form, with different vocabulary, different structure, different time-frame, different order etc.

If Moses wrote it that doesn't matter (when you see some copy)

Not sure what this sentence means.

It is like it was dictated to men by God.

Bible was not dictated. You can clearly see various genres, mythological concepts, scientific errors, differences between versions, canon evolution through centuries etc.

The cosmology is perfect. If you are suggesting mistakes elsewhere, let's see one.

Right in the beginning you have one scientific mistake - the sun, the moon and the stars are not in any firmament.

The bible knows it. You may not understand the bible, that is another matter.

Just a claim without evidence, again.

 

[Ace777]

Using just one source is bad for any conclusions.

All we need is the Holy Spirit of God to guide us and teach us.

 

[trophy33]

All we need is the Holy Spirit of God to guide us and teach us.

Nope. If this was true, you would not need any Usher or Bible and there would not be so many opinions about everything.

We need to study any area that interests us. Just projecting our wishes, feelings or speculations into it does not work long term.

 

[Platte]

"Jewish temples"? Creation is not a "Jewish" temple. Genesis 1 is written in a mythological drama genre, in the form of a temple inauguration. The text means the whole creation is God's temple.


"Jewish slaves"? Not sure where you got the idea it was written for you, but it certainly was not written to you. It was written by ancient people to ancient people and if you are unwilling to learn their thinking to understand them, you will abuse the text by eisegesis.


Bible, including Genesis, was not written by God. And Bible is not written to us, but to them. We must learn about them to understand what was written.


A series of denials without any reasoning or facts, again.



Nope. They are real objects in space.

You don’t believe we can read the Bible as it is written using our understanding and you don’t believe the Bible is the Word of God.
I assume you don’t believe the Bible was given to us by God either.


Just announce those things up front so I and others can skip by your silly posts trying to explain the Bible.

 

[Ace777]

Genesis 1 is written in a mythological drama genre

The Bible is not a myth. I thought this was a christian only forum.

In the Bible, types and shadows serve as symbolic representations that point to deeper spiritual truths. Let me break it down for you:

1. Types:
   • Definition: Types are real-life people, events, or ceremonies that prefigure something yet to come. They act as “foreshadows” of future realities.
   • Example: Adam, the first man, serves as a type of all sinful mankind and also points to Christ. Just as sin entered the world through Adam, Christ brings life and redemption to all (Romans 5:12-14; 1 Corinthians 15:22) 1.
2. Shadows:
   • Definition: Shadows are like hints or outlines cast by substantial things. They represent physical forms of heavenly realities.
   • Example: The Jewish ceremonies (such as sacrifices and feasts) were shadows that pointed to the ultimate reality found in Christ’s life, work, and kingdom (Hebrews 8:5; 10:1) 2.

In summary, types and shadows help us understand deeper spiritual truths by connecting historical events or people to their ultimate fulfillment in Christ.

 

[truthpls]

I am glad we clarified what the text of Genesis 1 is about.

And what it is not about

Thats just your claim.

No, that is the truth. All who know Jesus know that His word is not some confused, contradictory mishmash to be scoffed at. Claiming chapter one and two are opposing versions of what happened is unbelief and darkness

Its supported neither by the text itself

False. It fills in some details and goes over, as verse one declares, what was already FINISHED

, nor by the external evidence.

As if you had 'external evidence for creation week

Its a totally different type of text, in a different form, with different vocabulary, different structure,

Going back over what was done is not the same as declaring what was done. As different as some nat strainers might wish to make it to justify their disrespect for Scripture and God.

different time-frame, different order etc.

Obviously after something is all done and finished is not the same time as while it is being done or before it was done.

Not sure what this sentence means.

It means that the time Moses lived was not the late date for Exodus etc.

Bible was not dictated.

I said "like" "It is like it was dictated to men by God." An example is John in heaven in the book of Revelation. God told him to write the things he heard and saw.

You can clearly see various genres,

So what? Not like He writes boring books.

mythological concepts,

Meaningless

scientific errors,

False. None exist in the bible. Science is in error, not God.

differences between versions,

He allowed differences and I find that each usually sheds light on a topic. Nuances in a word, etc. Jesus did not worry about that when quoting Scripture.

canon evolution through centuries etc.

In some cases it just gets better with more accurate or older stuff found.

Right in the beginning you have one scientific mistake - the sun, the moon and the stars are not in any firmament.

False. They are in space where He made them. The error is a foolish notion that space was metal or whatever you chose to accept as a translation or meaning. Birds were put in the lower part of the firmament. Do you actually think people thought that birds flew in metal or clouds were some mirror effect of metal??

 

[Ace777]

Claiming chapter one and two are opposing versions of what happened

One talks about man and the other talks about mankind. Mankind is the world, man is Eden.

 

[The Barbarian]

How can life biologically change in order to adapt to it's environment out of accident.

Darwin's great discovery was that it isn't accidental.

 

[truthpls]

One talks about man and the other talks about mankind. Mankind is the world, man is Eden.

No, Eden was where God planted a garden. Both chapters talk about man. Chapter two is not about a 'world' It is about how He created them male and female and how. We already had the when from chapter 1

 

[The Barbarian]

No, that is the truth. All who know Jesus know that His word is not some confused, contradictory mishmash to be scoffed at. Claiming chapter one and two are opposing versions of what happened is unbelief and darkness

The only time one gets contradictions is when one tries to interpret the chapters as literal histories. One says the Earth was created in six days. The other says God did it in a day. That's a problem only if one assumes that they are meant to be literal days.

 

[truthpls]

The only time one gets contradictions is when one tries to interpret the chapters as literal histories.

They are not histories. One is a record of creation and the other is going over what was done with some details.

One says the Earth was created in six days. The other says God did it in a day.

False. Right at the start of the chapter it makes it crystal clear that there was 6 days of creation where it was finished. Then on day seven He rested from it.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

If you look at the NLT translation of verse 4 we see this more clearly

This is the account of the creation of the heavens and the earth. When the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

That's a problem only if one assumes that they are meant to be literal days.

No problem whatsoever

 

[trophy33]

And what it is not about

No, that is the truth. All who know Jesus know that His word is not some confused, contradictory mishmash to be scoffed at. Claiming chapter one and two are opposing versions of what happened is unbelief and darkness

False. It fills in some details and goes over, as verse one declares, what was already FINISHED

As if you had 'external evidence for creation week

Going back over what was done is not the same as declaring what was done. As different as some nat strainers might wish to make it to justify their disrespect for Scripture and God.

Obviously after something is all done and finished is not the same time as while it is being done or before it was done.

It means that the time Moses lived was not the late date for Exodus etc.

I said "like" "It is like it was dictated to men by God." An example is John in heaven in the book of Revelation. God told him to write the things he heard and saw.

So what? Not like He writes boring books.

Meaningless

False. None exist in the bible. Science is in error, not God.

He allowed differences and I find that each usually sheds light on a topic. Nuances in a word, etc. Jesus did not worry about that when quoting Scripture.

In some cases it just gets better with more accurate or older stuff found.

False. They are in space where He made them. The error is a foolish notion that space was metal or whatever you chose to accept as a translation or meaning. Birds were put in the lower part of the firmament. Do you actually think people thought that birds flew in metal or clouds were some mirror effect of metal??

OK, you are just repeating your beliefs, wishes, modern ideas and denials of the context, without studying the topic, so its meaningless to repeat what was already said, again.

 

[trophy33]

The Bible is not a myth.

Yes, Bible is not a myth, its a library of texts. It literally exists.

Bible contains various non-literal genres and mythological elements are one of them, for example the creation texts, Leviathan, Rahab, Flood, Giants, dragons etc.

I thought this was a christian only forum.

And you will be surprised that no common Christian creeds of the first church took any position on the creation, Bible genres or even on the Bible itself. You can be a Christian without ever reading the modern Bible or without being born in the evangelical fundamentalist family in the USA.

 

[trophy33]

You don’t believe we can read the Bible as it is written using our understanding

I said that several times. Bible is a library of ancient books and if you are lazy or unwilling to learn about their context, you will not understand what you are reading.

and you don’t believe the Bible is the Word of God.

Depends on the definition. Its not a direct dictation by God, no.

I assume you don’t believe the Bible was given to us by God either.

Depends on the definition. Bible did not fall from heaven, it was written, copied, edited, composed, edited again, canonized, translated by.... *drums* a lot of people. The underlying text is being changed/worked on by various scholars as we speak, to publish a new, better version. Do you wish to know more?

P.S.: I am still waiting for you to answer what specifically did you do for studying the text of Genesis, as I told you what I did. Just throwing your claims is not enough, if the only thing you did was reading it in your English Bible. If you boast that you believe Genesis is the word of God, why is it such a problem for you to tell us what textual versions, what original languages, what tools, materials or lectures have you used to understand it?