Can you be Christian and believe in evolution?

[Platte]

Still waiting for your answer - how many ancient world genealogies have you studied.

Would be best to start a new thread on that

 

[trophy33]

Would be best to start a new thread on that

No need. You can give me just the list of the ancient genealogies you have studied. Its an information, not a conversation topic.

Also, answer my question how you studied the Genesis text, to feel so confident/authoritative about it.

 

[Ace777]

Have you tried it, ever?

Yes, I have read and studied the generations in the Bible extensively. It is very, very easy to go from Adam to Abraham. More difficult from Abraham to David to Jesus. But no one disputes when Abraham lived.

 

[trophy33]

Yes, I have read and studied the generations in the Bible extensively. It is very, very easy to go from Adam to Abraham. More difficult from Abraham to David to Jesus. But no one disputes when Abraham lived.

What number have you arrived to, when you summed the Septuagint genealogies? Also, what Septuagint translation or text did you use for that?

Have you tried the same in the Old Vulgate?

 

[Platte]

No need. You can give me just the list of the ancient genealogies you have studied. Its an information, not a conversation topic.

Also, answer my question how you studied the Genesis text, to feel so confident/authoritative about it.

45 years of study. All my education is based on a Christian education. From grade school thru college. Im confident that the Bible is the Word of God.

 

[Platte]

Nope, He referred to Genesis for moral (divorce) and theological purposes, never for what you try to use it for.


Many times. Specifically Genesis 1 and 2 in the Masoretic version in several translations (and in two different languages) and the Septuagint version in the original Greek (Rahlfs Hanhart edition) and in English in Brenton and NETS translations. I read several papers and all theological views I could find about it, I watched various lectures about the cultural context.

What about you? How much did you care about the text?


Just plain, intuitive reading in the 21st century is not enough, the text is made in specific cultural context and you must learn the context first. Without that, what you are doing is eisegesis (inserting your ideas into the text), not exegesis (what the author meant).

So you don’t think the primary purpose of by the writer of the Torah was to provide historical details of the Jewish nation? How it began, etc.

 

[trophy33]

45 years of study. All my education is based on a Christian education. From grade school thru college. Im confident that the Bible is the Word of God.

My questions were different and specific, try to answer them - what did you specifically, factually do for studying the text of Genesis and what ancient genealogies have you studied.

 

[trophy33]

So you don’t think the primary purpose of by the writer of the Torah was to provide historical details of the Jewish nation? How it began, etc.

Was the primary purpose of Romulus and Remus story to provide historical details of the Roman nation?

Again and again, its not written in our era, we cannot read it in the way we write historical accounts. Thats why studying the topic and culture is necessary for understanding.

 

[Ace777]

What number have you arrived to, when you summed the Septuagint genealogies? Also, what Septuagint translation or text did you use for that?

Have you tried the same in the Old Vulgate?

I use the Hebrew Bible. I have read the Bible at least 5 times cover to cover. I have studied enough to know that Bishop Usshers book is true.

 

[truthpls]

This is called Hermeneutics. You could ask on that forum if your interested.

No, you made claims so prove it. Otherwise it remains worthless

Context is a key factor in interpreting the Bible accurately.

That is why when Gen 1 talks about God creating the heaven and earth, that is the context. Not Jewish temples. Sorry

Bible scholars consider the historical, social, political, religious, and literary aspects of the original writing when interpreting the text. Taking the text out of context can lead to misinterpretation.

Gen 1 context is not social or political or literary or religious. It is a record of what happened. What happened was God created the heavens and earth. He did not build a Jewish temple just admit that is foolishness.

 

[truthpls]

Yes, same with me, I am a modern reader and my intuitive reading of an ancient text and references is not good enough. Thats why I had to learn what they meant.

Gen 1 did not mean God created Jewish temples. You learned wrong

I can say that you still did not watch the sources I provided for you. Genesis 1 is a creation story written by ancient (very ancient) Israelites.

It was written for me as well. Not just the Jewish slaves.

They wrote the creation story in the form of a mythological drama, as a temple inauguration. Its still a creation story, only the form is something unknown to you.

No God wrote. He wrote truth. Not drama. He wrote in a way that was to be known to us! Notice how those who obfuscate and muddy and confuse simple things in Genesis are all unbelievers in what it says? For example you do not believe, if I remember correctly is a real first man created by God from whom a bone was taken to make a woman. Right? Naturally you would insult God and Scripture by calling it some story.

We know what Leviathan was.

No. You do not. You guess. You have an opinion.

Its a mythical semitic god of chaos, a giant hydra with (probably 7) heads, who lives in the waters under the Earth (in the flat Earth cosmology).

Total nonsense. The bible said no such thing.

When God created the Earth from waters (Genesis 1:2), He had to deal with Leviathan (mythologically, of course).

No, there was no life on earth. You are in direct opposition to God on that.

Both waters and Leviathan represent primeval chaos.

In your dreams perhaps. Not in the bible.

Most people. For example, the vast majority of Christians do not believe in the Sun, the Moon and the stars being just lights in the firmament.

You thought they were dark dots?

 

[Platte]

Was the primary purpose of Romulus and Remus story to provide historical details of the Roman nation?

Again and again, its not written in our era, we cannot read it in the way we write historical accounts. Thats why studying the topic and culture is necessary for understanding.

I take it your answer is no.
The Bible (Word of God) was written with the specific intent of providing a Historical account to their ancestors.
There is no issue reading the Bible. Recording facts and providing a narrative of events. The Bible provides the same details that someone writing it today would provide if not more. For example, The story of Joseph is clear and detailed and provides ample detail to understand how and why Jacob moved his family to Egypt. There’s nothing unusual or different in the way Genesis/Exodus was written. You are obviously not the first one to not believe the words of Moses.

 

[Ace777]

No,

no it is not called Hermeneutics? Then what do you call it?

 

[truthpls]

no it is not called Hermeneutics? Then what do you call it?

No, the fist verse in Genesis is not about a Jewish temple. No more than the verse about God forming man is about a three ring circus

 

[Ace777]

No, the fist verse

I did not say the first verse. I said the first letter in the Bible. BET in the hebrew. This is just the dictionary definition of the letter.

1. House: The word “bet” signifies “house.” In Jewish tradition, God desired a dwelling place in the lower reality, and humanity, represented by the righteous (tsadikim), builds this spiritual house by seeking the Divine source. The little point on the letter Bet always points upward, symbolizing this connection to the Divine12.

 

[truthpls]

I did not say the first verse. I said the first letter in the Bible. BET in the hebrew. This is just the dictionary definition of the letter.

1. House: The word “bet” signifies “house.” In Jewish tradition, God desired a dwelling place in the lower reality, and humanity, represented by the righteous (tsadikim), builds this spiritual house by seeking the Divine source. The little point on the letter Bet always points upward, symbolizing this connection to the Divine12.

The house of the world was for man. God did not move to Eden. Also, who cares about 'Jewish tradition'? When it comes to an important verse that tells us God created heaven and earth we should not be looking for hidden meanings about Jewish temples as a primary focus. Now if you have a valid point that does not take away from the verse about a letter in a sentence, fine. I see no lesson there, or interesting point. It seems to take away from the heavy meaning and content of what is being said.

 

[Ace777]

Also, who cares about 'Jewish tradition'?

The "Jewish tradition" is where we get our Bible. That means if it is sadducees you throw it away and if it is pharisees then canonize it and put it in your Bible to give to the Christians.

Date of compilation. The final Torah is widely seen as a product of the Persian period (539–332 BCE, probably 450–350 BCE). This consensus echoes a traditional Jewish view which gives Ezra, the leader of the Jewish community on its return from Babylon, a pivotal role in its promulgation.

Only small portions within the Torah are traced back to Moses, but not nearly the whole Torah: Exodus 17:14 (Battle against Amalek); 24:4 (Covenant Code); 34:28 (Ten Commandments); Numbers 33:2 (Wandering Stations); Deuteronomy 31:9 (Deuteronomic Law); and 31:22 (Song of Moses).

 

[truthpls]

The "Jewish tradition" is where we get our Bible.

God is where we get the bible

That means if it is sadducees you throw it away and if it is pharisees then canonize it and put it in your Bible to give to the Christians.

Nothing to do with Genesis and the topic

Date of compilation. The final Torah is widely seen as a product of the Persian period (539–332 BCE, probably 450–350 BCE). This consensus echoes a traditional Jewish view which gives Ezra, the leader of the Jewish community on its return from Babylon, a pivotal role in its promulgation.

I see you use the term BCE. Here is someone that uses BC

"The exact dates when Moses lived are still a matter of controversy. The reason is that the precise date of the Exodus of the children of Israel from Egypt is still debated. Two different dates, 1445 B.C. or 1290 B.C., are put forward to be the date of the Exodus."

When Did Moses Write, or Compile, the Book of Genesis?

Another important issue concerning the writing of the Book of Genesis concerns when it was written. If Moses was the author or compiler of the events in

www.blueletterbible.org

Only small portions within the Torah are traced back to Moses, but not nearly the whole Torah: Exodus 17:14 (Battle against Amalek); 24:4 (Covenant Code); 34:28 (Ten Commandments); Numbers 33:2 (Wandering Stations); Deuteronomy 31:9 (Deuteronomic Law); and 31:22 (Song of Moses).

Guess it depends on who traces what

 

[Ace777]

Nothing to do with Genesis and the topic

It has everything to do with Genesis and the oral tradition and where we get our Bible from.

 

[trophy33]

I take it your answer is no.

Take the answer I already gave you several times - its not historical in our modern, scientific, western meaning. We cannot take it out of its cultural context.

I noticed you still did not answer my questions regarding your confident claims. Do you make these claims without actually looking into it?